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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Cheex wrote:
In most cases that I've seen "Note that..." is used as a synonym for "Remember that..."


It doesnt mean remember something from before. it means remember the next bit of information in the future.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/11 23:51:24


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Find the rule then
Make attacks,..is after you pick a unit and pick targets
Prove otherwise, with reference to the rules in the rulebook.

   
Made in au
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






dammit wrote:
 Cheex wrote:
In most cases that I've seen "Note that..." is used as a synonym for "Remember that..."


It doesnt mean remember something from before. it means remember the next bit of information in the future.

No, it does mean remember something from before (or, at least, elsewhere). That's what a reminder is.

As an example, GW uses the same verbiage in the Shooting Phase in the last paragraph under Select Targets. This paragraph reiterates information that was already given in the same section, but rewords it in a way to clarify possible confusion. GW does the same thing in the Fight Phase section for making attacks, with a "Note that..." clause and everything.

Similarly, the Fight Phase uses the same verbiage about consolidating into a new enemy unit to remind players that doing so turns that doing so makes them eligible to attack back. This was already implied elsewhere, but the "Note that..." section clarifies how it applies.

Bottom line is that it is allowed in the rules for all units, and the Big Guns rule simply reiterates it with a "Note that..." reminder.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Ive just noticed that the tryanids have a stratagem for crusher stampede that allows a tryanid warrior unit to make ranged attacks using the big guns never tire rule as if they were monsters.

Food for thought, but I would argue that it's pretty clear that vehicles and monsters are the only units that can make use of the big guns never tire rule.

No one is saying that non-VEHICLES and non-MONSTERS get to use Big Guns Never Tire.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/12 01:00:54


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




But it doesn't say 'remember that', it says 'note that'
   
Made in au
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






dammit wrote:
But it doesn't say 'remember that', it says 'note that'

Yes, and "Note that..." is often used as a synonym for "Remember that...", as evidenced by the other examples I provided.

If it weren't being used as a reminder, then there would be absolutely no point in even saying "Note that..." in the first place.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Ive just noticed that the tryanids have a stratagem for crusher stampede that allows a tryanid warrior unit to make ranged attacks using the big guns never tire rule as if they were monsters.

Food for thought, but I would argue that it's pretty clear that vehicles and monsters are the only units that can make use of the big guns never tire rule.


Which just means they can shoot their guns into combat like monsters. Doesn't help with this question.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in at
Not as Good as a Minion





Austria

dammit wrote:
because vehicles and monsters are being excepted from the rule, the rule must exist. Otherwise, there would be no point providing the exception.

and the rule is: not allowed to make shooting attacks against units within engagement range
exception to this rule: vehicles&monsters, pistols

so this proofs also the point as there is no rule "cannot target units outside engagement range while being within engagement range of a different unit" and also no exception to this rules for monsters & vehicles (just a not that they can still do it)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
dammit wrote:

It doesnt mean remember something from before. it means remember the next bit of information in the future.

like the rest of the rule text?
why is the "note that" than not at the beginning of each paragraph, an in this case, why is the "note that" line referring to something that happens prior the text passage above if it is meant for the future (and not reminding you of something that happen before?

as none native speaker this is now very difficult as I would have used "note that" wrong all the time, so please explain it more detailed

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/12 09:19:19


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




dammit wrote:
But it doesn't say 'remember that', it says 'note that'

Yes, which is a reminder. It reminds you that due to this, you can do that.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 kodos wrote:

and the rule is: not allowed to make shooting attacks against units within engagement range


Yep. And you aren't making attacks when you declare target outside combat. Declaring targets is phase that happens before you make attacks.

Argument for this working is definitely there.

Step 1) declare targets. Bolters to unit A, pistols to unit B in combat.
step 2) make attacks. Start with pistols. Shoot. Continue with bolters. Am I still in combat? Can't make attack. Stop. Not? Free to shoot.

That's the argument. And choosing targets is before making attacks and choosing targets isn't prevented.

Whether GW INTENDED for this is another thing. In 8e thanks to GW not understanding their own phases you could target 2 knights with shadowsword, opponent then has to trigger rotate ion shield stratagem for one, you then fire 1 heavy bolter at that and rest to others. Why? RioS happened after picking targets but before choosing what weapons at what target...

...don't trust GW to write clear rules or even clear rules to be what GW intended ;D

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in at
Not as Good as a Minion





Austria

don't trust GW to ever read what they are writing

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in gb
Tough-as-Nails Ork Boy




United Kingdom

lol the question is
"in the shooting phase can you target an enemy a unit with a friendly unit that is within engagement range of another enemy unit?"

The answer is yes (as long as it's eligible, obscuring , look out sir, other rules etc)

The core rules define an eligible target as follows.

Eligible target: When a model shoots with a ranged weapon, an eligible target is one that is not within Engagement Range of any units from your army, and has at least one model that is both within that weapon’s range and visible to that model (unless otherwise specified).


Targetting and making attacks are not the same thing.

The restrictions quoted by others are for making attacks not targeting.


It's always been this way and your gonna have to get more used to it when the new Tau codex comes out as the battlesuits rule means you will be running into it more often, as they too can shoot within Engagement Range and they aint using pistols to clear an enemy from engagement range.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/15 21:49:49


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