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leerm02 wrote:
Thanks for the clarification everyone!

On another note, considering our faction's problem with anti-tank: what do you guys think about the Custodes with Pyrithite spears? The range is almost absurdly short, but it's basically a melta AND the folks wielding it are troops...

The price tag is a bit steep, but I think it might have some viability. Adrasite spears seem somewhat useless to me though.

Andrastite spears were an attempt at making hipowered anti-elite shooting. They suck now, ignore them.

For anti-tank, our best options are either bike squads with melta missiles, or our Dreads. The Telemon with dual storm canons strikes fear in everything, same with dual fists, which I call Fisto-Roboto.

The Ares is our crem-de-la-crem of anti-tank, and if there is something that survives it's magna cannon, run, because it's immortal, and now it's pissed and in pain.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
New leaks:



I don't know whether to cry or just laugh. This has gonna mean the Shadow sword is gonna do 20-30 damage per hit.

Lol at the new Stormsurge gun they just previewed on Warcom. The railgun is still way scarier, especially for us, but flat 12 dmg is really something.
It's not as bad though with 24" range and not ignoring invulns, just seems really scary at first glance.

12 DMG eh? That's the same damage as a Reaver Volcano cannon as I recall. I wonder if they'll be updating Titan profiles as well after they finish Tau.

Since it doesn't ignore Invuls it's still less dangerous to us than the railgun.

The new tau guns are so bananas that I'm half wondering if there are going to be some seriously bad drawbacks to the army we aren't being shown. Something like:

"Tau players never get an armor save of any kind ever and if anyone ever attempts an armor save then you have the game's written permission to smack them in the face."

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
12 DMG eh? That's the same damage as a Reaver Volcano cannon as I recall. I wonder if they'll be updating Titan profiles as well after they finish Tau.

Since it doesn't ignore Invuls it's still less dangerous to us than the railgun.

Notice the 4 damage 6 shot burst fire. Also, this unit/weapon has a shoot twice strat currently (Please nerf dear god). I don't want to face this thing if it shoots twice. That is a dead squad of bikes per turn. 13.333 wounds on a Telemon, 17 and change to an Ares. (In Focused mode)

the 24" range on the big shot means that wont happen too often on such a slow unit.

The 6 shot burst though is gonna be rough on us. Thats 2 or 3 dead terminators per volley.

It has other guns too.

Glad to see its been improved but im not sure why these armies are getting such a huge glow up when all we got are tricks.

All i know is im expecting the Ares main gun to get buffed big time even with the points drop.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
the 24" range on the big shot means that wont happen too often on such a slow unit.

The 6 shot burst though is gonna be rough on us. Thats 2 or 3 dead terminators per volley.

It has other guns too.

Glad to see its been improved but im not sure why these armies are getting such a huge glow up when all we got are tricks.

All i know is im expecting the Ares main gun to get buffed big time even with the points drop.

I'm eagerly awaiting that truth man. I'd love a 36" Heavy 2 S16 AP5 D8 shooter, with a volley setting of H6 AP4 6 damage. But I doubt it with the points drop. I'd also love to see Aquilons get something hot for the cost bumb.

You know, for some reason this didn't occur to me earlier but:

Wouldn't it be exactly on theme for our codex to be a bit of a sidegrade but whenever the new FW rules come out they are crazy-go-nuts powerful?

For a long time the "common wisdom" of the Custodes faction has been that you need FW units to really compete (It's debatable I know, but you have to admit the idea gets thrown around a lot). So if that trend continues I could totally see the ACTUAL power units of our faction just being stupidly expensive FW models...

leerm02 wrote:
You know, for some reason this didn't occur to me earlier but:

Wouldn't it be exactly on theme for our codex to be a bit of a sidegrade but whenever the new FW rules come out they are crazy-go-nuts powerful?

For a long time the "common wisdom" of the Custodes faction has been that you need FW units to really compete (It's debatable I know, but you have to admit the idea gets thrown around a lot). So if that trend continues I could totally see the ACTUAL power units of our faction just being stupidly expensive FW models...

That would be something indeed. But I seriously don't see GW running that direction. I have yet to see GW actually buff a FW unit in 9th.

What does S12 or S16 matter when GW won't use Toughness values above 9 (and even then, that's the Warlord Titan's toughness!)?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What does S12 or S16 matter when GW won't use Toughness values above 9 (and even then, that's the Warlord Titan's toughness!)?

Wounding T8 on 3+ or 2+ that the reason.

I think people are overreacting because 12D seem nuts. its not gonna be as game breaking as people think because GW now is pretty fast with balancing compared two a few years a go when we hat 1 and half years of Castellan meta or a year of Ynnari bs where players got tabled in their own turn.

 nordsturmking wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What does S12 or S16 matter when GW won't use Toughness values above 9 (and even then, that's the Warlord Titan's toughness!)?

Wounding T8 on 3+ or 2+ that the reason.

I think people are overreacting because 12D seem nuts. its not gonna be as game breaking as people think because GW now is pretty fast with balancing compared two a few years a go when we hat 1 and half years of Castellan meta or a year of Ynnari bs where players got tabled in their own turn.

I don't think the issue is we might have to wait ages for this to be fixed it is more....why did someone even think this was a good idea? Like why are they even putting a gun like that in the game? I really hope it is not as simple for Tau to get Markerlights down for +1 to hit as it used to be.or that they have as many ignores cover things as they used to have.

It looks like to fight Tau we'll need to rely more on deep strikers and obscuring terrain to get close enough to break through. The Tau army by and large doesn't have a lot of invulns (outside shield drones, which may change), and much of the anti-tank is stuck on semi-mobile or fragile platforms, so our anti-tank should also in kind be effective. Tau still have to come to midboard to really play the game. When you fight them, plan to deploy out of LOS, limit those alpha strikes.

They've also ALWAYS had an achilles heel with anything making their base BS 4+ -1 to hit. It really cuts down what they can do.

Necronmaniac05 wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What does S12 or S16 matter when GW won't use Toughness values above 9 (and even then, that's the Warlord Titan's toughness!)?

Wounding T8 on 3+ or 2+ that the reason.

I think people are overreacting because 12D seem nuts. its not gonna be as game breaking as people think because GW now is pretty fast with balancing compared two a few years a go when we hat 1 and half years of Castellan meta or a year of Ynnari bs where players got tabled in their own turn.

I don't think the issue is we might have to wait ages for this to be fixed it is more....why did someone even think this was a good idea? Like why are they even putting a gun like that in the game? I really hope it is not as simple for Tau to get Markerlights down for +1 to hit as it used to be.or that they have as many ignores cover things as they used to have.

I agree its a bad idea to put such a gun in the game on a knight sized model that should be a titan scale model. And especially the hammerhead rail gun is a bad idea (because it has no interaction) and will probably create a lot of feels bad moments.

 nordsturmking wrote:
Wounding T8 on 3+ or 2+ that the reason.

Seems like a situation that only exists because GW is afraid of giving anything high toughnesses.

So played my first game yesterday with the new codex, played as my Shadowkeepers because they are the shield host I have always run. My opponent played Nidzilla tyranids using all the new rules from the white dwarf and supplement.

Overall was a very interesting game. My list was




I won the game 63 to 45 at end of t4. We called it there because all he had left was old one eye and a malenthrope and I had only lost the venatari, 1 bike, 1 spear squad, and 4 of the 5 men from a saggitarum squad. He was only going to be able to score another 5 pts where I was about to score another 13 at least in the final turn.

Some things I learned while playing, The reduce attacks by 1 is very powerful, reducing the enemys cc output by so much actually helps keep us alive much longer in cc. Also the Telemon isn't the unkillable stomping machine it was in the past. Having said that it still felt like a serious threat and my opponent had to deal with it quickly or else get hurt badly which he did. Also the venetari still have a place in our forces for a cheap deep striking unit.

Having said that the actual gw stuff (not forgeworld) feels very viable now. It felt like I could have ran a full gw only army and gotten great results so I put that as a major win. The bikes were very effective and hard to kill, the bike captain ran through whoever he wanted to thanks to lockwarden, and the captain on foot with sword and shield ended up killing a hive tyrant with little trouble thanks to how many attacks he was getting and 6's to wound giving out a mortal wound. In return he only took 4 wounds so he was fine in the fight.

I really want to try some terms and more bikes, I think next game i won't run any forgeworld and see how that plays out.

Question on the Wardens vs Custodian Guard- while it seems like they are just 5 pts more for not much I am thinking they may actually be worth the upgrade if your going spears on your guard anyways. They get the bodyguard rule (eh...), 6+++ (ok, not worth banking on), and an extra attack (ok, now we are talking). For 5 pts I think that's possibly worth more than putting a misercordia on a guard (and you can always put a misercordia on a Warden if you wanted as well....) if you don't need the troop slots filled.

After thinking about the rules more and watching some battle reports, I'm starting to think the codex is really strong. Our objective control capabilities combined with the tactical flexibility of Emperor's Chosen makes things pretty over the top.

I suppose now is a bad time to re-mention that drones are 2 wounds each now? Meaning a squad of 5 Terminators DSing into the backfield, might kill 5 total drones, for a trade of exactly 300 points to kill maybe 120 points (1 killed in shooting, 5 killed in melee if they make the charge) We don't even reach the Stormsurge waiting behind the drones, which will kill 3 of the terminators in the reply, if the drones don't kill/wound any in the Overwatch. Tau are shaping up to be a nightmare for us. Also, we better pray they revise "Early Warning Protocols" or The Allarus won't even make it to the shooting phase.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 nordsturmking wrote:
Wounding T8 on 3+ or 2+ that the reason.

Seems like a situation that only exists because GW is afraid of giving anything high toughnesses.

Do you remember what Toughness Titans had before GW made them all T<10?

They had armour values.

I don't see how anything we have can take down Heavy T8 platforms with Invuln saves, like the Stormsurge with tactical drones, or a Plagueburst Crawler. Hell, even T7 HS platforms like Contemptors give us fits now.

Yeah, from everything I can tell: I don't think killing things is supposed to be our strength.

Objective control, resilience (as much as anything is resilient in 9th), and tricks are our new bag.

Sure we can kill some things (we aren't super nerfed or anything like that) but I think that the Custodes real strength now lies in other aspects of the game.

Is that good? Is that bad? I guess it kind of depends really. As others have said: I can totally see us being able to win on points a LOT of the time.

leerm02 wrote:
Yeah, from everything I can tell: I don't think killing things is supposed to be our strength.

Objective control, resilience (as much as anything is resilient in 9th), and tricks are our new bag.

Sure we can kill some things (we aren't super nerfed or anything like that) but I think that the Custodes real strength now lies in other aspects of the game.

Is that good? Is that bad? I guess it kind of depends really. As others have said: I can totally see us being able to win on points a LOT of the time.

Pretty much. Good luck pushing guardians off objectives when we can casually turn on a -1A aura on any unit

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
12 DMG eh? That's the same damage as a Reaver Volcano cannon as I recall. I wonder if they'll be updating Titan profiles as well after they finish Tau.

Since it doesn't ignore Invuls it's still less dangerous to us than the railgun.

Notice the 4 damage 6 shot burst fire. Also, this unit/weapon has a shoot twice strat currently (Please nerf dear god). I don't want to face this thing if it shoots twice. That is a dead squad of bikes per turn. 13.333 wounds on a Telemon, 17 and change to an Ares. (In Focused mode)

Um, I don't know of any stratagem that allows Tau to shoot twice (at least in the 8th edition codex, which I used to play). Or rather, there was one, but it was locked to Vior'la Sept (which no one plays) and Fire Warriors IIRC. Of course maybe there is one now from leaks or something and I haven't heard about it.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:I don't see how anything we have can take down Heavy T8 platforms with Invuln saves, like the Stormsurge with tactical drones, or a Plagueburst Crawler. Hell, even T7 HS platforms like Contemptors give us fits now.

Tactical drones don't give any benefits to the Stormsurge as far as I know unless this has changed in the upcoming codex. The Surge lacks the BATTLESUIT keyword and so can't be protected by drones. They can still get in front and bodyblock enemy chargers, but any army with decent screening units can do similar things obviously.

I do concede that taking down crunchy high-Toughness targets is a struggle bus for Custodes. Bikes with the salvo launchers and our FW toys are probably the best bet for handling that kind of stuff.

Excrutiatus Flamer: buffed witchseeker flamer with S6 and AP3. Meh.

I gather it also it goes from assault D6 to assault 6. Given that it's basically a 3+-to-kill on anything shy of a space marine, that's not bad for a light infantry character if that's true.

Bikes are probably our best bet for killing T8 platforms. S7, +1 to wound on the charge and a further +1 to wound from slayer of nightmares means you can get them wounding T8 on 3s which is decent.

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
Bikes are probably our best bet for killing T8 platforms. S7, +1 to wound on the charge and a further +1 to wound from slayer of nightmares means you can get them wounding T8 on 3s which is decent.

No, wound modifiers cap at +1

locarno24 wrote:

Excrutiatus Flamer: buffed witchseeker flamer with S6 and AP3. Meh.

I gather it also it goes from assault D6 to assault 6. Given that it's basically a 3+-to-kill on anything shy of a space marine, that's not bad for a light infantry character if that's true.

You are correct. It is in fact assault 6 and not D6. I am going to amend that it is a decent relic, if you are bringing a sisters character.

Thanks for calling me out on that one.

Twilight Pathways wrote:

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
Bikes are probably our best bet for killing T8 platforms. S7, +1 to wound on the charge and a further +1 to wound from slayer of nightmares means you can get them wounding T8 on 3s which is decent.

No, wound modifiers cap at +1

Yes. But the way around it is with Rendax Kata that gives you +1S vs vehicles and monsters.
So you can get to wounding on 3+ against T8

With bikes and Caladius, there's plenty of high quality d3+3 in the army I thin to deal with vehicles.

Azuza001 wrote:
So played my first game yesterday with the new codex, played as my Shadowkeepers because they are the shield host I have always run. My opponent played Nidzilla tyranids using all the new rules from the white dwarf and supplement.

Overall was a very interesting game. My list was

Spoiler:

Hq =

Shield captain w/ sword and shield, peerless Warrior warlord trait, veiled blade

Shield captain on bike w/ Salvo Launcher, tip of the spear (reroll 1's in cc on the charge), lockwarden (no invulnerable allowed vs him), superior creation (5+++)

Troops =

Sangittarum - 5 w/ misercordias
Sangittarum - 5 w/ misercordias
Custodian guard - 3 w/ spears
Custodian guard - 3 w/ spears

Fast Attack=

Veritus preators- 3 w/Salvo launchers
Venatari Custodians- 3 men
Venatari Custodians- 3 men

Heavy Support=

Telemon- Arachnus Storm Cannon, Telemon Caestus

I won the game 63 to 45 at end of t4. We called it there because all he had left was old one eye and a malenthrope and I had only lost the venatari, 1 bike, 1 spear squad, and 4 of the 5 men from a saggitarum squad. He was only going to be able to score another 5 pts where I was about to score another 13 at least in the final turn.

Some things I learned while playing, The reduce attacks by 1 is very powerful, reducing the enemys cc output by so much actually helps keep us alive much longer in cc. Also the Telemon isn't the unkillable stomping machine it was in the past. Having said that it still felt like a serious threat and my opponent had to deal with it quickly or else get hurt badly which he did. Also the venetari still have a place in our forces for a cheap deep striking unit.

Having said that the actual gw stuff (not forgeworld) feels very viable now. It felt like I could have ran a full gw only army and gotten great results so I put that as a major win. The bikes were very effective and hard to kill, the bike captain ran through whoever he wanted to thanks to lockwarden, and the captain on foot with sword and shield ended up killing a hive tyrant with little trouble thanks to how many attacks he was getting and 6's to wound giving out a mortal wound. In return he only took 4 wounds so he was fine in the fight.

I really want to try some terms and more bikes, I think next game i won't run any forgeworld and see how that plays out.

Question on the Wardens vs Custodian Guard- while it seems like they are just 5 pts more for not much I am thinking they may actually be worth the upgrade if your going spears on your guard anyways. They get the bodyguard rule (eh...), 6+++ (ok, not worth banking on), and an extra attack (ok, now we are talking). For 5 pts I think that's possibly worth more than putting a misercordia on a guard (and you can always put a misercordia on a Warden if you wanted as well....) if you don't need the troop slots filled.

How did you manage to so effectively kill all his big bugs? -1 Dam and high T plus Invuln makes him pretty immune to most of your attacks other than the salvo launchers?

I've got a mate who is gonna run the crusher into me next week and I can't see a way of killing his stuff so was gonna just try to take it on objectives.