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Damn, we just got an awesome new codex to figure out that the AOW guys agree is an A to A+ tier book that's arguably one of the most versatile and well balanced to come out so far and all the doomers on here can do is lament about the next books coming out. Play some actual games and really get to know how the new army works before y'all start complaining that we don't have enough of this and that to compete. We have a massive toolkit now to deal with a plethora of situations, we're going to be just fine. Some people will find anything to whine about, I guess.

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
Damn, we just got an awesome new codex to figure out that the AOW guys agree is an A to A+ tier book that's arguably one of the most versatile and well balanced to come out so far and all the doomers on here can do is lament about the next books coming out. Play some actual games and really get to know how the new army works before y'all start complaining that we don't have enough of this and that to compete. We have a massive toolkit now to deal with a plethora of situations, we're going to be just fine. Some people will find anything to whine about, I guess.

Welcome to the internet, where everything's doom and gloom and the facts don't matter.

Had my first 2 games yesterday with the new codex. Shield Host traits, Katahs and our strats are just mind blowingly amazing. Our army became a smart army overnight: previously we either did full on dread brawl, or a defensive strategy with shields. The first has no appeal to me, it is fun, but at the same time there is no brain behind it (hit them faster than they hit us), and the "sword and board sitting on objectives" play just took away all my agency.

Now we have so many janky gak it's amazing. I brought the EC list from Goonhammer's codex review, and went down the soon to be classic Katah-road of (movement)/(horde or vehicle bashing)/(locking in combat). Katahs are so simple, my opponents understood them in half a minute, and they proved incredibly useful. Combining these with all these small tools we have (bikes extra consolidate, reroll deny, SH change for one turn, praetorian plate etc) made the army harder to play, but more rewarding, and more forgiving of mistakes in a way.

First match was against DG, terminus est pox horde with huge blobs of termies and DP, Typhus, more termies in DS. We had Battle Lines, so short side deploy, and knowing that the DS will hurt me I opted for a quick steamroll over everything they have in order to prepare for the second wave. The Advance 2d6HI trait was incredible for positioning, and the +1 A in exchange for D1 is a big up against poxwalkers and termies. I agree with Harpster from AoW on this, Damage Reduction is a superficial problem for us, as we are converting attacks at a high rate even without buffs, and also we have a dedicated katah stance to combat this. DG player missed a few charges with the DS units, so I cleaned house on his side of the board and turned around with losing 2 shield guardians until T3. He gave up.

Next one was eldar, shitton of reapers, wraithdudes (TEQ eldar unit), and shining spears. I took the mission sec of 3 points for midboard objective, maxed it out even with an open middle. Deathblob just walked up the board, the praetorian plate made my opponent incredibly frustrated, and the Vehicle/Monster Rendax katah was a godsend against all these vehicles and monsters (6s to autowound are pretty strong, turns out). He had some good moments, but when I can just teleport shunt into combat, when I can just switch my Galatus to fallback+charge mode for 1CP to suddenly go around the midboard brawl and charge into the backfield reaper line, there really is no pushback. Ofc eldar are really overcosted without a new codex, but still came away with a 80-30 against a formidable opponent.

Folks, we became a smart army and a damn good one as well.

As someone who is facing close-combat Space Marines regularly; what Shield Host should I consider?

Emperor’s Chosen seem to be hyped up, but the 4+ against mortals doesn’t seem super important going by my previous games.

Shadowkeepers is nice as it takes away a good portion of their attacks, and lets you take out buffing characters faster. Aquilan Shield also funky, as the Core Heroic makes you able to just gang up on anyone jumping at you. Emissaries also great with the fight first and the modifier optional ignoring.

From what I know, melee marines either go full berzerk with a shitton of attacks, or lean hard into power weapons. I would look around Emissaries, with an option to switch someone to SK for the -1A (even though it is telegraphed quite a bit).

 Darkseid wrote:
As someone who is facing close-combat Space Marines regularly; what Shield Host should I consider?

Emperor’s Chosen seem to be hyped up, but the 4+ against mortals doesn’t seem super important going by my previous games.

If you know your are up against combat focused space marines a lot, then Shadowkeepers is the way to go. Not only do you reduce their attacks with the shield host trait, which is very powerful, but you also get access to fight last with the stasis oubliette relic and you can easily kill any character they throw at you with the lockwarden warlord trait. Imo it doesn't get any better than shadowkeepers against combat focused space marine armies.

If you do not like shadowkeepers, then Emissaries Imperatus are worth a shot. Having fight first on everything and ignoring modifiers can be really strong against combat armies specifically.

And lastly there is everybodys darling: Emperor's Chosen. Their shield host fighting style doesn't help you specifically against combat armies, but what makes them interesting even in such a matchup is their shield host specific stratagem, which lets you give one unit a different shield host fighting style for a turn. Need to reduce incoming damage? Make your unit into shadowkeepers and reduce their attacks. Need to get out of combat to charge something more important? Make one unit into solar watch for a turn so you can fall back an charge. Need extra AP to cut through space marine armor more consistently? Dread Host it is.

Which blade master config would be best suited for chopping up an army of Saly Aggressors? Victus? Even then he would only kill maybe 3, if they don't murder him on the charge with fires of battle.

I found a really awesome 3d printable dnd sculpt of a space janitor with a big runic sword, and I'm gonna try slapping that on a 50m base and see what he looks like. I need to get the dimensions of the actual model to know what I have to size him to. Does anyone actually have the model and can give me the assembled height etc?

original article here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/21/spread-the-glory-of-the-emperor-with-these-free-adeptus-custodes-points-updates/


GW have dropped the updated points values for the custodes for free as a pdf download.

quick highlights form the article:

Misericordias are now free.

Trajan, bike caps and valerian are all 10 points cheaper.
standard sheild caps and termie caps are both 5 points more expensive, blade champ is +10

Allarus and jetbikes are both down 5pts.

our heavy vehicles have had points drop. Intrestingly, the telemon and coronus both have large point adjustments advertised on the article but their not on the PDF, nor are any of the Forge world stuff.


edit:

what i find most intresting is this rebalance CANNOT be as a result of any playtesting feedback, given the lack of time since codex release and the lead times for getting a hardcopy book printed. so these must have been planned either form the get go, or the MFM team doesnt talk to the codex rules teams and just overwrites what they print.

So Grav Carriers are the new best way to get up the map? At 220, It's a T8 platform, with 18 wounds, a lite Storm Cannon, Fly, and a 14" move. I hope they allow us to put Sisters and or Terminators in them. Right now it just says "Custodes Infantry", but most transports have extra wording for Terminators.

Venerable Land Raiders need to drop another 20 points before they're worth considering IMO. Better now, but still too much.

xerxeskingofking wrote:
original article here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/21/spread-the-glory-of-the-emperor-with-these-free-adeptus-custodes-points-updates/


GW have dropped the updated points values for the custodes for free as a pdf download.

quick highlights form the article:

Misericordias are now free.

Trajan, bike caps and valerian are all 10 points cheaper.
standard sheild caps and termie caps are both 5 points more expensive, blade champ is +10

Allarus and jetbikes are both down 5pts.

our heavy vehicles have had points drop. Intrestingly, the telemon and coronus both have large point adjustments advertised on the article but their not on the PDF, nor are any of the Forge world stuff.


edit:

what i find most intresting is this rebalance CANNOT be as a result of any playtesting feedback, given the lack of time since codex release and the lead times for getting a hardcopy book printed. so these must have been planned either form the get go, or the MFM team doesnt talk to the codex rules teams and just overwrites what they print.

Those are some juicy point drops. So the coronus drops a whopping 30p....at what point does that thing become interesting and could it even fill a role we need? Do we need a transport for our Infantry?

xerxeskingofking wrote:
original article here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/21/spread-the-glory-of-the-emperor-with-these-free-adeptus-custodes-points-updates/


GW have dropped the updated points values for the custodes for free as a pdf download.

quick highlights form the article:

Misericordias are now free.

Trajan, bike caps and valerian are all 10 points cheaper.
standard sheild caps and termie caps are both 5 points more expensive, blade champ is +10

Allarus and jetbikes are both down 5pts.

our heavy vehicles have had points drop. Intrestingly, the telemon and coronus both have large point adjustments advertised on the article but their not on the PDF, nor are any of the Forge world stuff.


edit:

what i find most intresting is this rebalance CANNOT be as a result of any playtesting feedback, given the lack of time since codex release and the lead times for getting a hardcopy book printed. so these must have been planned either form the get go, or the MFM team doesnt talk to the codex rules teams and just overwrites what they print.

Note also that GSC aren't getting any changes despite releasing at the same time as us. Definitely weird.

What am I missing? Where are the FW unit changes? I see one page in that doc, and it's just Codex units.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What am I missing? Where are the FW unit changes? I see one page in that doc, and it's just Codex units.

Did you read his post? He says the download page only covers codex units, but the webpage shows non-codex units, like Telemon and Cgravis.

I wonder if this is because GW plans on releasing a All faction FW book soon, and doesn't want to give that away free.

I still dont think we need a Coronus. Or a LR for that matter.
Its just not a role the army needs in this stage...
I mean the Coronus is beefy now, but it's a door stopper. Same with the LR, if it was worth taking.

xerxeskingofking wrote:
original article here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/21/spread-the-glory-of-the-emperor-with-these-free-adeptus-custodes-points-updates/


GW have dropped the updated points values for the custodes for free as a pdf download.

quick highlights form the article:

Misericordias are now free.

Trajan, bike caps and valerian are all 10 points cheaper.
standard sheild caps and termie caps are both 5 points more expensive, blade champ is +10

Allarus and jetbikes are both down 5pts.

our heavy vehicles have had points drop. Intrestingly, the telemon and coronus both have large point adjustments advertised on the article but their not on the PDF, nor are any of the Forge world stuff.


edit:

what i find most intresting is this rebalance CANNOT be as a result of any playtesting feedback, given the lack of time since codex release and the lead times for getting a hardcopy book printed. so these must have been planned either form the get go, or the MFM team doesnt talk to the codex rules teams and just overwrites what they print.

I posted the points changes (including FW ) 3 days ago.
This gives me 85-100 points in m list and free daggers is might push us in to S Tier we will see.

xerxeskingofking wrote:
original article here:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/21/spread-the-glory-of-the-emperor-with-these-free-adeptus-custodes-points-updates/


GW have dropped the updated points values for the custodes for free as a pdf download.

quick highlights form the article:

Misericordias are now free.

Trajan, bike caps and valerian are all 10 points cheaper.
standard sheild caps and termie caps are both 5 points more expensive, blade champ is +10

Allarus and jetbikes are both down 5pts.

our heavy vehicles have had points drop. Intrestingly, the telemon and coronus both have large point adjustments advertised on the article but their not on the PDF, nor are any of the Forge world stuff.


edit:

what i find most intresting is this rebalance CANNOT be as a result of any playtesting feedback, given the lack of time since codex release and the lead times for getting a hardcopy book printed. so these must have been planned either form the get go, or the MFM team doesnt talk to the codex rules teams and just overwrites what they print.

After I saw that points drop, I about spit my coffee out. Trajan is an absolute BEAST after already being dropped in points. Now he's an auto-include in my book. I was bummed that Wardens didn't drop in points, but after seeing free Stabby Sticks....oh yeah! Now I'm not so miffed. Cheaper Allarus Terminators + free Misericordia....Man GW really wants us to use those minis!

Xerxes, I think shield captains went down 5 points? I'm I mistaken?

I'm going to testing out Aquilan Shield Host with lots of Wardens this weekend. I

Expect Trajaan to even out soon, maybe in the next few months when he's auto-include in EVERY top list.

Also, I think Wardens with free daggers now make for great "Troops" as it were. If you just take Wardens, you can basically get really tough 50 point Anti-tank axes. I'm gonna theory craft some Vanguard lists.

I have to say I'm loving the point drops!

I didn't get my game in the other day, unfortunately (getting a game in during the time of covid seems frustratingly difficult) but I have high hopes for this Saturday... and with the point drops I can even tweak my list!

On the subject of Land Raiders... I actually have had good luck running one in an astartes list at 1k points, because at that level it becomes difficult to deal with (or, alternately, a huge bullet sponge that lets a lot of your units score points).

I'm wondering if the same might be true of our venerable land raider...

Yeah, not gonna lie, a quad LC platform hitting on 2s, that soaks up fire and requires dedicated shooting to remove, isn't that bad an option. For transports though I still say the Orion or the Cronus. Cronus if you are looking to save points, and you anti-tank is coming from other sources. I still can't believe the Telemon is unscathed after all this. I would have at least expected a nerf to Storm Cannon profile or something.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Yeah, not gonna lie, a quad LC platform hitting on 2s, that soaks up fire and requires dedicated shooting to remove, isn't that bad an option. For transports though I still say the Orion or the Cronus. Cronus if you are looking to save points, and you anti-tank is coming from other sources. I still can't believe the Telemon is unscathed after all this. I would have at least expected a nerf to Storm Cannon profile or something.

well, just to tip you into more doom and gloom (if you needed help) this is JUST A points adjustment, not the long expected FAQ/Errata/Update to the forge world compendium that would include rules and stat-line changes, so thats still a possiblity.

however, bearing in mind the telemon is not CORE, and (like every other 9e codex) our stat boosting auras are now CORE locked, this points reduction might just be them reflecting this change in buff-ability reducing damage output.


Also

I wonder if this is because GW plans on releasing a All faction FW book soon, and doesn't want to give that away free.

they....they already did that? the forge world compendium? its been out for well over a year now?

I know form the previous free points update they did this time last year, they organise all the FW stuff into a separate section form the "codex" stuff in the MFM, so their will be a page for custodes FW stuff in this new book, its just not been pushed out for free (apart form via their app, that has all unit princes for free even if you dont have the book, but lets ignore that for now.....)

I guess my point was that since last year, when that compendium came out, there have been multiple codexes released, and several more on the very near horizon. The game has radically altered it's style as well. I don't intend to say it's a completely different game, but keeping units like the Venetari locked out of certain updates, and the Golden dingle bikes desperately need something to give them a chance, seems counter to the purpose of making those books anyway. Now with the advent of GW plastic Heavy support units doing damage that is normally reserved for only the silliest of FW units, I think it's worth re-visiting the FW units that need some love.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess my point was that since last year, when that compendium came out, there have been multiple codexes released, and several more on the very near horizon. The game has radically altered it's style as well. I don't intend to say it's a completely different game, but keeping units like the Venetari locked out of certain updates, and the Golden dingle bikes desperately need something to give them a chance, seems counter to the purpose of making those books anyway. Now with the advent of GW plastic Heavy support units doing damage that is normally reserved for only the silliest of FW units, I think it's worth re-visiting the FW units that need some love.

Ah, fair enough, I agree you have a point.

Something I missed in my reading of the article until auspex tactics pointed it out was that thier is another "balence datasheet" due "early February", so that would be the most likely time for a move like that to happen.

Ah too bad, I was hoping to see if the Achillus had dropped in price, guess I'll have to wait for the FW FAQ.

Has anyone gotten in any games yet running Talons? I'm curious if people prefer Prosecutors, Vigilators or Witchseekers thus far.

Since they havent changed at all from the pre codex version, I'd say TAC is Bolters, Flamers are great for hordes and daemon armies, Swords are still pretty useless.

In another codex a 14 point M7 WS3 S5 AP-3 D2 with two attacks and easy access to +1 to hit and/or full hit rerolls, rerolling wounds of 1, etc. would be pretty damned good.

Incubi are used extremely aggressively at 4 points more per model with very similar stats. Obviously Incubi have a vast infrastructure of support that gets them to the outrageous murder machines they are, but my point remains the same: Vigilators will positively hew through marines and other MEQs, and they’ll do it at a ferocious price point while hurting enemy psykers by proxy.

I picked up Valerian and Aleya a while back and have always wanted to run them. I plan on putting together some Vigilators in the future for her to command the only concern I have of course is they don't seem like they're very survivable outside a null-maiden rhino.

You know, I love the addition of the SoS into the codex... but is there really a GOOD reason to run a full SoS army? I mean, I guess if you want to do a thematic open-play mission or something against demons or T-sons... but that seems like it probably would't be much fun for the other player...

I feel like, to really make them "pop" as a sort of "faction within a faction" they need at least a few more models or... something.

Help me out here: do YOU see yourself running an ALL SoS army?

I am really interested in finding out what GW plans to give us for a fortification, as every army is supposed to get one.

Also, I'm trying to consider the value of taking Allarus over Aquilons now that they've lost all their special abilities that made them worth taking over Aquilons.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I am really interested in finding out what GW plans to give us for a fortification, as every army is supposed to get one.

Also, I'm trying to consider the value of taking Allarus over Aquilons now that they've lost all their special abilities that made them worth taking over Aquilons.

They're cheaper and you can take squads of 1. Those are the two big advantages from my point of view.