Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, Necrons were bottom of the pile on the last metawatch and its generally held that their book is in a poor state (and i have complained about it a lot on these forums). So i thought why not put together some off the cuff thoughts on how could GW could improve them. Note this is not intended to discuss points values and absolutely some points values may need to change as a result of these suggestions. If something isn't mentioned below then its not something I would change.

Ranged Weapons

Death Ray - AP increased to -4, ignores inv. saves.

Doomsday Blaster - Keep the split profiles but if it remains a Heavy D6 weapon then the damage should be upped to 3 on low power and D3+3 on high power.

Doomsday Cannon - As above.

Enmitic Annihilator - Change to Damage 2

Gauss Blaster - Change to damage 2

Gauss Cannon - Change to damage 3

Heavy Death Ray - Change to D3+6, ignores inv. saves

Relic Gauss Blaster - Increase AP to -3

Tachyon Arrow - Up to damage 6 and ignore inv. saves (if a tau railgun does, then this thing should do!)

Twin Gauss Blaster - As for Gauss Blaster

Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon - As per Heavy Gauss Cannon

[b]Other Changes/b]

Give more HQs the noble keyword to make command protocols more accessible - Royal Warden might be an option

For me command protocols needs completely redoing because the buffs are so underwhelming when put next to strands of fate, miracle dice etc but as a minimum let us choose the order once we know if we are going first or not.

Canoptek Reanimator - Give it a 4++ save and/or remove the stipulation that it requires line of sight to use its reanimation beam.

Resurrection orb - change it to provide an 6" aura of +1 to RP rolls for warriors and immortals (or even just warriors)

Nightbringer - The god of death feels a little underwhelming in this crazy new high damage world. I would say his reaping sweep should be damage 2 and his Entropic blow should be damage 4.

Like a lot of what is mentioned.

A 4++ on the reanimator seems a bit much. Giving it quantum shielding would be more than enough there really.
I'm okay with reanimator needing line of sight, but I think it'd be cool if it gave a chance for reanimation to happen even if the target squad is completely wiped.

Gonna be a no from me dawg on ignoring invluns.
Just because one faction got it does not mean everyone should be getting it. Its a bad fix to a problem.

This is 100% true. Unfortunately, it'll likely be seen more frequently going forward.

I think the tachyon arrow might have the most deserving case to ignore invuls since it's a one use weapon. I hate the concept of the ignore invul rule but the tachyon absolutely makes sense.

Protocols absolutely need an overhaul as well. They're just obnoxious to use or play against. Honestly an admech style pick one for each turn would be fine.

Question on the nightbringer, does the sweep and entropic blow top out at the same damage? 6 damage 4 attacks vs 12 damage 2 each can do 24 damage right? I thought most sweep attacks came out to less damage normally?

I agree that I'm less thrilled to see the additional ignoring invul weapons. If that proliferates were just trying to correct course for too many invul saves which corrected for too much damage which corrected for too much durability which.....you get the point. I agree that it's crazy to say Tau science is somehow outdoing the guys who casually make a mockery of physics but making rules to ignore rules that ignore rules will just hurt the game.

Playing against decurions with CSM in 7th has left me a bit traumatized when I hear 4+ reanimation. Might be best to keep the 4+ to the infantry units?

Last thoughts but the game needs some severe overhauls. The attempt to make single shot guns good has been terrible this edition. D6 was too swingy, D3+3 is a bit too optimized, -1 damage is great but fairly hard to get, multi wound models are wound piñatas until they get and invul, and now we just ignore all saves. I'm terrified that knights and demons are about to get the ++++ save to try and compensate. The system needs some way to better distinguish tanks and monsters from infantry and bikes.

Disclaimer: I've yet to play my necrons this edition.

Not a fan of all the invul ignoring stuff for the same reasons I'm not a fan of it on the hammerhead railgun. I'd rather homebrew rules to remove it from tau than rules that give it to more armies. The tachyon arrow is a possible exception, but even then it's weird that it can ignore dodge saves, holograms, etc. Evil_Kiwi said it well.

Gauss blasters going to D2 just smells like an attempt to undo the increase in marine wounds. Don't think I'm a fan of this. Are they really struggling rigiht now? Wounding marines on 3s and cutting their armor in half seems decent on paper.

For me command protocols needs completely redoing because the buffs are so underwhelming when put next to strands of fate, miracle dice etc but as a minimum let us choose the order once we know if we are going first or not.

Counter-proposal: Let's ditch the Doctrine slot abilities for other armies rather than buffing them on 'crons. Rules in this slot have generally failed to feel fluffy to me and are one of the more obvious sources of rules bloat.

Resurrection orb - change it to provide an 6" aura of +1 to RP rolls for warriors and immortals (or even just warriors)

Am I crazy, or is there already a way to get warriors a 4+ RP that rerolls 1s? How does the math on this look for warriors and immortals vs the current rez orb?

So a couple of things:

1) I came up with these based on what's happening in the game now not what I would like to be happening. I don't think there should be weapons that ignore invulns in the game generally speaking but there are. If there are such weapons then why should only one faction get them?

2) fair shout on quantum shielding a 5++ save would be fine I'd forgotten about that!

3) the issue for me with the current res orb is it's a one and done. My proposal means it's an aura so keep your basic warriors close to your lord or overlord and you get the buff each time you have to make a roll. However you lose the ability to make the roll for models that died in previous turns. I like this because it reinforces the undead trope of a necromancer advancing with his army of undead raising them back to life as he does. Necrons are basically space undead after all. Plus it's already limited to warriors and possibly immortals. No +1 for lychguard or destroyers.

QSS is better than 4++. Right now it is reserved for open-topped vehicles (Silent King excepted), if one monster gets it, why not all?

Reanimator boosts Reanimation to 4+. Warriors re-roll 1s innately.

I like Res Orb as is. Bringing back models that previously died is necromancy, your change just keeps them alive, that's more like first aid.

Necrons started ignoring invulns, it's not unique to Tau Empire. D3+3 damage is still less than the 3D3 of Heavy Destroyers. Doomsday Arks already do plenty of damage.

C'tan being 9W characters without character protection irks me. They should lose the keyword. Deceiver and Transcendent C'tan are pitiful in melee +1 S.

Doomstalkers and DDAs seem wrong. Doomstalker is basically a lesser version of the DDA, I think it should have a different role. Doomstalkers could be the stationary long-range version and DDA could be a more mobile version with a bigger focus on its auxiliary guns and an ability to fire the big gun on the move.

Both R24" Heavy D6 S10 AP-5 3 Damage

Doomstalker has an ability where if it remains stationary in the Movement phase it can triple the range of its gun. The long barrel of the Ark is for precision on the move, not power. That's an option anyway.

Heavy death rays and tesla destructors should go back to 24" range to make Necrons a short-ranged army, tesla destructors Assault 8 damage 2 to make them threaten smaller vehicles better. Deathmarks need their old guns back, Heavy 1 is super underwhelming and makes DS useless. Again, keeping it short-ranged.

Allow heavy death ray to shoot two targets within 6" of each other, like a reverse Eradicator unit, Reduce to Damage D6. This gives it a bit of a unique role in taking out tank columns, versus the Doomsday Ark moving up and taking out a single big target and any infantry support that target has.

Canoptek Tombstalker gauss slicers should either be S4 AP-1 like Warriors or S5 AP-2 like Immortals instead of S5 AP-1.

Plasmacyte exploding Destroyers is silly and the fact that it is so random is irksome. I think something like if no models in the infused unit died at the end of the turn then one model is destroyed would be way less irksome.

Subject: Reworking the Psychomancer and Touching Up the Chronomancer and a Few Relics https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/800650.page

Subject: Necron Dynasties and Command Protocols https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/800276.page

Fixing Reanimators and Ophydian Destroyers has been discussed in previous threads.

Not one mention of the Hexmark Destroyer (I assume because nobody takes it and everyone forgot about it, model is good rules are ~@#!)
That unit needs some modifications and some love.

The Hexmark Destroyer fills elite (whihc is OK) but only comes in a squad of 1 (that needs to be fixed, maybe upto squads of 3-4, other Destroyer squads are taken in 3-6)
It costs 75 points (over twice as much as a Skorpekh Destroyer, so everyone takes those), it needs to drop down in points by about -20 points 50-60 points would be better.
M8 WS3+ BS2+ S5 T5 W5 A4 Ld10 Sv3+
(the BS is very good, it has two extra wounds and 1 extra attack compaired to the Skorpekh Destroyer)
The Enmitic disintegrator pistol has range 18", Pistol 1, S6 AP-1 D1 adn one Hexmark Destroyer has 6 of them.

With range atatcks it ignore hit, BS and cover modifiers. Also overwatch hits on 2+, which is also very good
Each time a model is killed it can fire one more shot.
Like other destroyers it has reroll hit rolls of 1, which again is VERY good when combined with the BS2+ or WS3+.
It also has Living Metal (regain a wound in command phase), Command Protocols, Dimensional Translocation (can be in reserve and teleport in 9" away from enemy units).

The death of this unit is very much:
The unit size limit of 1,
The points cost 75,
Lack of support or synergy, it seems best suited working by itself for gaurding objectives about to be charged, or taking objectives ungaurded or with standard / weak troops. It can also be used as distraction sometimes.

I would want this nunit to:
Have a unit size of 1-3
Have points cost 60
Give it more synergy with other units, like a Heroic Intervention range boost (or teleport in for a few CP?), or give your own units a Morale test or Combat Attrition test bonus if within X" of Hexmark Destroyer or enaged with the same unit as the Hexmark Destroyer.
Something to make it a team player and not a lone wolf.


Just to add
I am not a fan of stuff ignoring invul (and that is speaking as a mostly tau player).
But on the other side invul should be something special and not something that every space marine seems to have access to, so giving a few xenos factions a few weapons to ignore it is ok if it is being excessivly used like it is now.

Delete

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Gonna be a no from me dawg on ignoring invluns.
Just because one faction got it does not mean everyone should be getting it. Its a bad fix to a problem.

Necrons did have it first. One of the Ctan can ignore them from memory.

As a Necron player primary I hate command protocols. I made my list with 2 dynasties so I could ignore them. But some are good. I like that good players can plan ahead and make really good use of them. If you can pick each round, reduces the strategy, difficulty, and fun imo. Maybe give more nobles the ability to swap once per game like TSK.

Eternal Guardian (cover), Sudden storm (move), Tyrant (fall back and shoot), are all fine. I would tweak as below:

Vengeful stars: Directive 1 - Unmodified hits of 6 get +1S,
Directive 2 - No benefits of cover at full range.(straight buff)

Undying Legions: Directive 1 - Reduce the first instance of damage to models with 4 or more wounds to 1 this battle round. (to simulate faster healing)
Directive 2 - Reroll 2 failed reanimation dice (to help out on multi wound models)

Hungry Void - Directive 1 - Reroll hit rolls of 1 if charged/charging/Heroic intervention
Directive 2: 1+ strength is fine

Edit: C'tan is enough ignore invuln imo. even if you don't use nightbringer, just pay 2CP for it. And all the mortals they dish out ignore invuln as well.

I still think RP is garbage and dropping our troops movement to 5 inches shouldn't happen if we're mostly a 24 inch range army. I also think warriors and immortals should be immune to morale. They're mindless machines....never made sense to me that they had morale tests

Some quick suggestions for Necrons on the top of my mind:

1) Give Quantum Shielding to all vehicles, including flyers and Lord of wars such as Monolith, as well as change the Doomstalker from 4++ to Quantum Shielding.

2) Reduce point cost for Troops, suggestion: -1ppm for Reaper Warriors, -2ppm (-3ppm?) for Flayer Warriors, -1ppm for Gauss Immortals, -2ppm for Tesla Immortals. Perhaps even more for Immortals.

3) Reduce point cost for HQs, especially the less used Crypteks, Royal Warden, Lord, Overlord, Skorpekh Lord, Command Barge slightly, to make them less of a tax. Interesting characters but too expensive in points.

4) More reliable shooting from Antitank, Less random number of shots and damage for Doomsday weapons. Normal Lokhust Destroyers should probably be -5ppm but also need some other change. I think 3 damage is a bit much, would rather see Higher strength since S6 just does not work. D3 damage is very annoying, but don't think 2 damage would be an improvement, perhaps less shots, higher damage.

5) Remove Objective Secure counting as double for Eternal Conquerers.

6) Small point adjustments decreases for units, such Deathmarks , Ophydian Destroyers, Tomb Blades (and cheaper gear), Hexmark etc etc. Lychguard, Pretorians. Reanimators with Quantum shielding and say 60 pts could even be useful.

7) Would not mind for example Flayed ones and even Skorpekhs being slightly more expensive. Close Combat Necron should not be the only option.

8) Remove all range restrictions for command protocols, Noble on field being only restriction.

I think buffing Necrons doesn't need drastic changes. Something like:

Army Rules:
- Command Protocols: Just make them like Doctrina or Canticles. You select one Protocol and one Directive at the start of the Battle Round.

Keywords:
- More Noble characters: Give the Lokhust Lord and Skorpekh Lord the Noble keyword. They are Lord's after all. As you mentioned possibly the Royal Warden as well.

Ranged Weapons:

Necronmaniac05 wrote:

Ranged Weapons

- Death Ray: AP increased to -4.

- Doomsday Blaster: Keep the split profiles but if it remains a Heavy D6 weapon then the damage should be upped to 3 on low power and D3+3 on high power.

- Doomsday Cannon: As above.

- Enmitic Annihilator: Change to Damage 2

- Gauss Blaster: Change to damage 2

- Gauss Cannon: Change to damage 3

- Heavy Death Ray: Change to D3+6.

- Relic Gauss Blaster: Increase AP to -3

- Tachyon Arrow: Up to damage 6 and ignore inv. saves (if a tau railgun does, then this thing should do!)

-Twin Gauss Blaster: As for Gauss Blaster

- Twin Heavy Gauss Cannon: As per Heavy Gauss Cannon

I basically agree with these except for ignore invuls on the Death Ray's. The Tachyon arrow is a one-shot per game weapon, so that's fine to me.

Melee Weapons:
- Warscythe: Give it a ranged attack again.

Wargear Options:
- I'd love to see Lords able to take a Dispersion Shield for +5 points if they take a Hyperphase Sword or Voidblade. Overlord's it's a free swap for the Tachyon arrow if they take a Hyperphase Sword or Voidblade.

Wishlisting:
- I'd just simplify resurrection protocols to a 5+++ it would give Necrons so form of mortal wound defence, and it'd actually be relevant on multi-wound models.