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 themonk wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 themonk wrote:
I believe GW is at a loss with what to do with EC. They were able to shift Slaanesh in AoS to the Hedonites range reasonably well but it fits a fantasy aesthetic that is "acceptable" to wider range of gamers (an Eastern influence that has a basis in the established entertainment zeitgeist).

I think New Noise Marines are safe bet and don't really rankle the sensibilities of shareholders and many gamers. We definitely need those. But beyond that...there's always Black Library stories.

There's room for all sorts of sonic units and daemon engines, some unique characters and buff/debuff units. You seem to be thinking slaanesh space marines require boobs and sex everywhere.

I'd love to see all that and would like to be proven wrong but being a CSM player for 23 years...

Just covering what GW have already done for them so far in reality:

Noise marines
Heavy noise marines (kakaphoni)
Sonic dreadnoughts
Perfection hunting swordmasters - forget the name they're in HH

From there you easily have:
Vain marines covered in mirror surfaces with perfect armour
Other warriors who hunt perfection in combat
As mentioned above gluttonous marines who just have too much of everything, be it food or w/e
Pain loving marines

Plenty of options for them to move down

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Slaanesh as a wider faction is a bit easier than when narrowed into the CSM specifically. I mean how many stories of gluttonous Slaaneshi Astartes are there?

GW's design team has knocked it out of the park before though so it could be interesting.

I feel that Chaos in 40K is massively hampered by being so intrinsically linked to the CSM, which ultimately are pretty rigid and boring. AOS chaos is so much more interesting, innovative and evocative.

This is made worse by the fact that a lot of the 40K chaos players don't actually want to play chaos, they want to play HH in 40K, so they always cry when the designers try to take things into more interesting direction than just HH with spikes.

 Crimson wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Slaanesh as a wider faction is a bit easier than when narrowed into the CSM specifically. I mean how many stories of gluttonous Slaaneshi Astartes are there?

GW's design team has knocked it out of the park before though so it could be interesting.

I feel that Chaos in 40K is massively hampered by being so intrinsically linked to the CSM, which ultimately are pretty rigid and boring. AOS chaos is so much more interesting, innovative and evocative.

This if made worse to the fact that a lot of the 40K chaos players don't actually want to play chaos, they want to play HH in 40K, so they always cry when the designers try to take things into more interesting direction than just HH with spikes.

Which is hilarious since much of that grouching predates us knowing anything about the Heresy to start with. I for one am perfectly happy with the two being different things despite my brainworm of an idea to make Word Bearers for HH and reuse the models for 40k.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So back the the CSM rumors with the recent Squat announcement we can safely say that everything on that leaked list is coming. So here's what we know the CSM are getting:

Spoiler:

+Regular Possessed (thank Jimmy Space, that dang kit is old and while it was great for kitbashing with the kit itself had aged poorly)
+ Bikers (guessing a box of 3 since that seems to be GW's favorite number for these kinds of units, but maybe they'll surprise me and do a box of 5)

+ Chosen (Confirmed, released via Killteam)

Spoiler:

+ Warpsmith (Confirmed, released initially with knife ears. Pending stand alone release)
+ Cultists (Looks like the "Cultists of the Abyss" set I guess, which means a lot of shirtless guys and masks over their face. Cool look honestly)
+ Traitor Guard "BSF style" (best guess is the traitor guard from BSF are getting a kit. Perhaps the Commisar and Ogryn will too. Also Chaos Beastmen please)
+ Human Mutants (guessing some form of chaos corrupted humans or people with unfortunate mutations who tend to turn on their oppressors when given a chance in 40k stories)
+ Possessed Humans (apparently this one and the previous one are "monstrously horrible" which sounds wonderful)
+ Cultist standard bearer (because every uprising needs a banner)
+ Cultist character with bodyguard

Also mentioned for later this year (no set release dates or details about models):
+World Eaters
+Chaos Daemons

So I know that some people look at CSM and say that they shouldn't have squishy humans in the book, but honestly most of the stories I've read with CSM have them using humans as a sort of answer to the numbers problem CSM would have otherwise. After all CSM losses are even harder to replace than regular Astartes and if you can use cheap fodder to give yourself even the slightest advantage then it's best to do so. As such I'm fine with humans being a big expansion to the book, plus this is probably the closes to a Lost and the Damned book we'll see for some time (fingers crossed for some guard tank access so Iron Warriors can take Bassies again). Then again I'm biased towards Word Bearers who love stirring up a good mob of zealous cultists.

Minor nitpick, but Chosen weren't released with Kill Team. They and the Warpsmith came with Eldritch Omens.

Kill Team: Nachmund Gauntlet was the Aeldari Corsairs v repacked with additional sprue Legionaries.

It is worth mentioning that while there are rules in the Compendium for an all-Cultist team, there's a lot of art of new style Cultists in the KT books.

 Crimson wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Slaanesh as a wider faction is a bit easier than when narrowed into the CSM specifically. I mean how many stories of gluttonous Slaaneshi Astartes are there?

GW's design team has knocked it out of the park before though so it could be interesting.

I feel that Chaos in 40K is massively hampered by being so intrinsically linked to the CSM, which ultimately are pretty rigid and boring. AOS chaos is so much more interesting, innovative and evocative.

This if made worse to the fact that a lot of the 40K chaos players don't actually want to play chaos, they want to play HH in 40K, so they always cry when the designers try to take things into more interesting direction than just HH with spikes.

Yeah I would prefer God focussed Codexes myself including mortal, Heretic Astartes and Daemons plus a seperate Dark Mechanicus/Knights codex

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So back the the CSM rumors with the recent Squat announcement we can safely say that everything on that leaked list is coming. So here's what we know the CSM are getting:

Spoiler:

+Regular Possessed (thank Jimmy Space, that dang kit is old and while it was great for kitbashing with the kit itself had aged poorly)
+ Bikers (guessing a box of 3 since that seems to be GW's favorite number for these kinds of units, but maybe they'll surprise me and do a box of 5)

+ Chosen (Confirmed, released via Killteam)

Spoiler:

+ Warpsmith (Confirmed, released initially with knife ears. Pending stand alone release)
+ Cultists (Looks like the "Cultists of the Abyss" set I guess, which means a lot of shirtless guys and masks over their face. Cool look honestly)
+ Traitor Guard "BSF style" (best guess is the traitor guard from BSF are getting a kit. Perhaps the Commisar and Ogryn will too. Also Chaos Beastmen please)
+ Human Mutants (guessing some form of chaos corrupted humans or people with unfortunate mutations who tend to turn on their oppressors when given a chance in 40k stories)
+ Possessed Humans (apparently this one and the previous one are "monstrously horrible" which sounds wonderful)
+ Cultist standard bearer (because every uprising needs a banner)
+ Cultist character with bodyguard

Also mentioned for later this year (no set release dates or details about models):
+World Eaters
+Chaos Daemons

So I know that some people look at CSM and say that they shouldn't have squishy humans in the book, but honestly most of the stories I've read with CSM have them using humans as a sort of answer to the numbers problem CSM would have otherwise. After all CSM losses are even harder to replace than regular Astartes and if you can use cheap fodder to give yourself even the slightest advantage then it's best to do so. As such I'm fine with humans being a big expansion to the book, plus this is probably the closes to a Lost and the Damned book we'll see for some time (fingers crossed for some guard tank access so Iron Warriors can take Bassies again). Then again I'm biased towards Word Bearers who love stirring up a good mob of zealous cultists.

Minor nitpick, but Chosen weren't released with Kill Team. They and the Warpsmith came with Eldritch Omens.

Kill Team: Nachmund Gauntlet was the Aeldari Corsairs v repacked with additional sprue Legionaries.

It is worth mentioning that while there are rules in the Compendium for an all-Cultist team, there's a lot of art of new style Cultists in the KT books.

Yeah the nitpick was already mentioned. Either way a confirmation is a confirmation even if I mixed up which thing it came from.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Slaanesh as a wider faction is a bit easier than when narrowed into the CSM specifically. I mean how many stories of gluttonous Slaaneshi Astartes are there?

GW's design team has knocked it out of the park before though so it could be interesting.

I feel that Chaos in 40K is massively hampered by being so intrinsically linked to the CSM, which ultimately are pretty rigid and boring. AOS chaos is so much more interesting, innovative and evocative.

This if made worse to the fact that a lot of the 40K chaos players don't actually want to play chaos, they want to play HH in 40K, so they always cry when the designers try to take things into more interesting direction than just HH with spikes.

Yeah I would prefer God focussed Codexes myself including mortal, Heretic Astartes and Daemons plus a seperate Dark Mechanicus/Knights codex

AoS took that approach and I think it works better that way.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Slaanesh as a wider faction is a bit easier than when narrowed into the CSM specifically. I mean how many stories of gluttonous Slaaneshi Astartes are there?

GW's design team has knocked it out of the park before though so it could be interesting.

I feel that Chaos in 40K is massively hampered by being so intrinsically linked to the CSM, which ultimately are pretty rigid and boring. AOS chaos is so much more interesting, innovative and evocative.

This if made worse to the fact that a lot of the 40K chaos players don't actually want to play chaos, they want to play HH in 40K, so they always cry when the designers try to take things into more interesting direction than just HH with spikes.

Yeah I would prefer God focussed Codexes myself including mortal, Heretic Astartes and Daemons plus a seperate Dark Mechanicus/Knights codex

I'm just a huge fan of Tzeentch, so I'm quite happy to play Thousand Sons as-is in 40k. And if it gains enough local traction, I'll just start collecting them HH, too.

As for god-focused books - I like the idea, but where would that leave the five Undivided Legions and assorted Renegade Astartes?

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
As for god-focused books - I like the idea, but where would that leave the five Undivided Legions and assorted Renegade Astartes?

In the CSM Codex with at least a character each for the Legions, Bile for his mooks, and Huron for the Corsairs. With the EC and WE traits out, the Creations of Bile and the Corsairs can hop in and with custom Warband traits, it's off to a steady start.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Not gonna lie I completely forgot about this.

In much the same way that GW has seemingly forgotten about Emperor's Children, leaving them languishing without anything to show for themselves other than a resin conversion kit designed for a completely different (and out of print) set of Space Marines.

I honestly don't know who's getting the short end of the stick with this Codex: People who liked using Cult units in their armies at all, or Emperor's Children players.

New models would be great but I just want rules that follow the lore and don't feel bad to play with. We'll have to see about the stratagem, relics, and warlord traits. But these leaks don't seem that bad for EC outside of things that suck for everyone, like being losing war gear and having weapons limited to the existing kits. I mean nothing in here is a bad as going two editions with overpriced Sonic Blasters that couldn't move and fire. Even Lucius seems worth taking finally.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Slaanesh as a wider faction is a bit easier than when narrowed into the CSM specifically. I mean how many stories of gluttonous Slaaneshi Astartes are there?

GW's design team has knocked it out of the park before though so it could be interesting.

I feel that Chaos in 40K is massively hampered by being so intrinsically linked to the CSM, which ultimately are pretty rigid and boring. AOS chaos is so much more interesting, innovative and evocative.

This if made worse to the fact that a lot of the 40K chaos players don't actually want to play chaos, they want to play HH in 40K, so they always cry when the designers try to take things into more interesting direction than just HH with spikes.

Yeah I would prefer God focussed Codexes myself including mortal, Heretic Astartes and Daemons plus a seperate Dark Mechanicus/Knights codex

I'm just a huge fan of Tzeentch, so I'm quite happy to play Thousand Sons as-is in 40k. And if it gains enough local traction, I'll just start collecting them HH, too.

As for god-focused books - I like the idea, but where would that leave the five Undivided Legions and assorted Renegade Astartes?

In a single book (maybe with supplements) much like how AoS puts Slaves to Darkness in a single book despite the different factions you can build out of it.

 themonk wrote:
I believe GW is at a loss with what to do with EC. They were able to shift Slaanesh in AoS to the Hedonites range reasonably well but it fits a fantasy aesthetic that is "acceptable" to wider range of gamers (an Eastern influence that has a basis in the established entertainment zeitgeist).

I think New Noise Marines are safe bet and don't really rankle the sensibilities of shareholders and many gamers. We definitely need those. But beyond that...there's always Black Library stories.

I don't think its that much of a reach honestly. Your right...that Slaanesh's six circles/deadly sins from WF/AOS won't work in 40K, sine the main "sin" of the EC is pride. But, we already have Platine Blades and Phoenix Terminators to represent the "Duelist" nature of the Legion. Noise Marines can be easily expanded upon with heavier sonic weapons and a buffing character you can call him a "Conductor/Composer". A Sonic Dreadnought obviously. Maybe a "Fleshcrafter" apothecary; like a mini-Fabius Bile.

Aesthetics wise I don't expect or need any breast on the models. But there should flayed human and eldar skins like the raiment replusive and endless grin. It shouldn't be a problem since Drukhari model line and current CSM models already have some of that. Maybe some Hellraiser-esque hooked chains, torture implements, and body-horror and their good.

I feel bad for saying it but all of the current rumors are the reason that I got rid of all of my CSM generic units. Here we had a huge opportunity to create a vast array of chaos space marine legions that could have been represented very similarly to what we saw with the 8th edition Space marine legion books. I don't care what others feel regarding the "fresh" approach that GW seems to be taking with these releases. CHAOS for the sake of chaos is not chaos, it's just lazy. We need fresh takes on Iron warriors, night lords, and most of all alpha legion that truly depart from the stereotypical "summon daemons, ooooo spooky". They have done so much right through thousand sons and death guard, and hopefully the coming world eaters, but what appears to be the plan right now is not it and I am glad their sales will take a hit for it. Others may not feel that they owe us fans anything but they do. We are the reason they have done so well monetarily, and the IP may be theirs, but we are it's life blood with every purchase we make and every game we play.

I don't want horus heresy 2.0, I want a resurgence of horrifying space marines that make even the black ragers blush from their acts of villainy that "they" commit, not something that possessed them or summoned by them. Shame on you GW.

If all the daemons are split off into 4 different books, where does that leave Word Bearers? Why don't they get to team up with daemons while 4 other legions do? Word Bearers are just as if not more closely tied to daemons than the cult legions.

They have done so much right through thousand sons and death guard, and hopefully the coming world eaters, but what appears to be the plan right now is not it and I am glad their sales will take a hit for it.

If you think this forum which is nicknamed "The retirement home of boomers" on other social medias (such as Reddit) is representative of the community or that GW sales will take a hit because of one single Codex when their business has never been more profitable, you need to seek medical help ASAP because you are delusional.

... retirement home of boomers?
I suspect reddit needs math help.

Voss wrote:
... retirement home of boomers?
I suspect reddit needs math help.

I think they mean more in behavior than literal age.

If they can fit Squats back into Warhammer 40k, update their design and lore, and probably retcon a bunch of things, then there's PLENTY of room for lots of different Emperor's Children things.

Even if EC just get equivalents to Thousand Sons, that's still:

Fulgrim
Lucius the Eternal
Slaanesh Lord
Slaanesh Sorcerer
Noise Marines
EC Terminators
Slaanesh Cultists
Slaanesh Cultist Leader
Slaanesh Cultist Elites

Which honestly would be plenty, especially if you allow them to take the generic options for vehicles, daemon engines, and maybe a couple other things as well. It would be enough to give them their own flavor.

If they go wild and give us even more stuff, like to the level that Death Guard got, then we might also see a Slaanesh-specific tank, a bunch of other weird and wacky characters, and a few other elite Slaanesh units.

It really boils down to this mysterious mix of creative direction and designer choice, since apparently the mini-designers get to wield the sword of judgement when it comes to what gets updated and what doesn't. They did a great job with AoS, since not only did they give Slaanesh a bunch of mortal units, they also gave us a few new Daemon units, new Keeper of Secrets, and then the Slaanesh Twins as well. It was actually quite a huge 2-wave overhaul of the Slaanesh faction.

Actually I know the most important EC thing that can come out of old lore: Doomrider.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Yeah I would prefer God focussed Codexes myself including mortal, Heretic Astartes and Daemons plus a seperate Dark Mechanicus/Knights codex

That's how I'd do it.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Actually I know the most important EC thing that can come out of old lore: Doomrider.

I only want this if he's just a head.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Voss wrote:
...retirement home of boomers?
I suspect reddit needs math help.

I think they mean more in behavior than literal age.

Still weird.
I'd argue... hmm. No, lets bury this tangent instead. It isn't going to go anywhere good.


So, are there any good compilations of rumors so far? They've been good quality, but piecemeal.

Pacing of releases would be interesting as well. Arena of Shades happened, but AoS has the Thondia terrain and book, Underworlds has zombies, BB has Norse, and 40k has Tyranids, Chaos Knight box and Knight books. Presumably all of that is coming out before Marines, so... late May? Maybe? Not sure if Ash Wastes is coming beforehand or not, but that and HH seem primed to dominate previews once they start. (Given the HH was just the trailer, I suspect that will come after CSM, but not sure).

Voss wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Voss wrote:
...retirement home of boomers?
I suspect reddit needs math help.

I think they mean more in behavior than literal age.

Still weird.
I'd argue... hmm. No, lets bury this tangent instead. It isn't going to go anywhere good.


So, are there any good compilations of rumors so far? They've been good quality, but piecemeal.

Pacing of releases would be interesting as well. Arena of Shades happened, but AoS has the Thondia terrain and book, Underworlds has zombies, BB has Norse, and 40k has Tyranids, Chaos Knight box and Knight books. Presumably all of that is coming out before Marines, so... late May? Maybe? Not sure if Ash Wastes is coming beforehand or not, but that and HH seem primed to dominate previews once they start. (Given the HH was just the trailer, I suspect that will come after CSM, but not sure).

Tyranids and Thondia terrain are going up for preorder this coming Saturday, so that knocks out those things at least.

Ash Wastes is very likely to be coming out before Chaos Marines. We've seen the full box for it, whereas CSM have only had teasers so far.

30k is rumored to be hitting June/July, so should be after Chaos Marines. That would put Chaos Marines in late May, yeah. I'm guessing this month we'll see Ash Wastes, and there will be a week in there that covers the Underworlds and Blood Bowl stuff, and then early May or late April will likely be the Knights.

My guess is that it's Ash Wastes then Chaos/Imperial Knights then CSM in that order.

The plan is for the chaos knight army box released before csm. The individual knight releases are after.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Not gonna lie I completely forgot about this.

In much the same way that GW has seemingly forgotten about Emperor's Children, leaving them languishing without anything to show for themselves other than a resin conversion kit designed for a completely different (and out of print) set of Space Marines.

I honestly don't know who's getting the short end of the stick with this Codex: People who liked using Cult units in their armies at all, or Emperor's Children players.

You'll have to wait and see

Emperor's Children got a lot more teases in the Psychic Awakening series than Squats did. It's not like they're not coming, its unfortunately just further away.


Sadly, I don't think we can even buy the awesome noise marine anymore :/

drbored wrote:
If they can fit Squats back into Warhammer 40k, update their design and lore, and probably retcon a bunch of things, then there's PLENTY of room for lots of different Emperor's Children things.

Even if EC just get equivalents to Thousand Sons, that's still:

Fulgrim
Lucius the Eternal
Slaanesh Lord
Slaanesh Sorcerer
Noise Marines
EC Terminators
Slaanesh Cultists
Slaanesh Cultist Leader
Slaanesh Cultist Elites

Which honestly would be plenty, especially if you allow them to take the generic options for vehicles, daemon engines, and maybe a couple other things as well. It would be enough to give them their own flavor.

If they go wild and give us even more stuff, like to the level that Death Guard got, then we might also see a Slaanesh-specific tank, a bunch of other weird and wacky characters, and a few other elite Slaanesh units.

It really boils down to this mysterious mix of creative direction and designer choice, since apparently the mini-designers get to wield the sword of judgement when it comes to what gets updated and what doesn't. They did a great job with AoS, since not only did they give Slaanesh a bunch of mortal units, they also gave us a few new Daemon units, new Keeper of Secrets, and then the Slaanesh Twins as well. It was actually quite a huge 2-wave overhaul of the Slaanesh faction.

Considering World Eaters are about to get a big release of their own this summer, but with a lot less leaks than CSM/etc, I'm worried about how many new models they're gonna end up actually getting. Like all we have to go on is "probably Angron, probably zerkers, and probably one specific rumor engine pic" for them compared to the sheer amount of chaos leaks.

I could totally see them toning down on unique cult units, even if it would suck.

 cole1114 wrote:
I could totally see them toning down on unique cult units, even if it would suck.

What makes you think they'd do that?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
I could totally see them toning down on unique cult units, even if it would suck.

What makes you think they'd do that?

Indeed, history suggests otherwise. When they spun-off the Thousand Sons, they got a new Rubric Marines kit and a new terminator unit. Death Guard got even more. At the very least, I would expect to see new Berzerkers and some kind of terminator unit.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
I could totally see them toning down on unique cult units, even if it would suck.

What makes you think they'd do that?

Indeed, history suggests otherwise. When they spun-off the Thousand Sons, they got a new Rubric Marines kit and a new terminator unit. Death Guard got even more. At the very least, I would expect to see new Berzerkers and some kind of terminator unit.

Cult as in cultist, sorry.