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tneva82 wrote:
If it's in book it means gw came up with it like year ago and been sitting on it. Also curious no leak has mentioned it

Leaks could be from playtesting documents and not the final versions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Probably. Which makes me wonder: will our fw units keep Hateful Assault? Or lose it and gain an additional attack?

CSMs now have (or rather will have) 3 attacks now. Doesn't that pretty much mean that Hateful Assault is gone?

That's my assumption since they took it away from Death Guard and Thousand Sons.

 Sasori wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Voss wrote:
If its still 'months' out, I'm curious if Armour of Contempt will officially make it into the codex or it'll stick to the dataslate, so they can drop it like a bad potato if it goes over poorly.

I assume it's already in the book and was likely something they came up with after seeing the problems with the loyalists being too squishy.

I don't think it's in the book. I'm betting the book has been done for a long time now, it just hasn't lined up with the model production and release window yet.

We started getting reliable rumors about the book before Nids were even announced, which I think lends a little credence to this.

That's what I'm thinking. We've had too much info for too long, and (some) of the wait is release//schedule problems, not printing.
If it did make it into the book, either their schedule is far more broken than I thought, or their printer is overwhelmed and behind.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
If it's in book it means gw came up with it like year ago and been sitting on it. Also curious no leak has mentioned it

Leaks could be from playtesting documents and not the final versions.

I don't know... If that were the case they would have also altered the statlines no ?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Probably. Which makes me wonder: will our fw units keep Hateful Assault? Or lose it and gain an additional attack?

CSMs now have (or rather will have) 3 attacks now. Doesn't that pretty much mean that Hateful Assault is gone?

Yes, that's what it looks like. But I was wondering if it would stay for our fw units or if it would be removed and replaced with an additional attack.

ClockworkZion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
If it's in book it means gw came up with it like year ago and been sitting on it. Also curious no leak has mentioned it

Leaks could be from playtesting documents and not the final versions.

Yes, according to Clockworkchris' source, the leaks are coming from early playtest rules, as I keep trying to remind everyone.

Looking at the new Chaos Legionnaire stat block, I can only laugh a little.

Launch of 8th Edition: Look at these new Primaris Space Marines. They are better than CSM!

Late 9th Edition: Look at these updates CSM. They are better than Primis Soace Marines.

 alextroy wrote:
Looking at the new Chaos Legionnaire stat block, I can only laugh a little.

Launch of 8th Edition: Look at these new Primaris Space Marines. They are better than CSM!

Late 9th Edition: Look at these updates CSM. They are better than Primis Soace Marines.

Hmm. They really are. And old marines look even worse.
Yeah, I'd give some odds to a 9.5 SM codex.
GW's going to escalate rather than moderate.

 alextroy wrote:
Looking at the new Chaos Legionnaire stat block, I can only laugh a little.

Launch of 8th Edition: Look at these new Primaris Space Marines. They are better than CSM!

Late 9th Edition: Look at these updates CSM. They are better than Primis Soace Marines.

They're not though? Primaris still have shock assault so same number of attacks on the turn it matters and better guns.

Dudeface wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Looking at the new Chaos Legionnaire stat block, I can only laugh a little.

Launch of 8th Edition: Look at these new Primaris Space Marines. They are better than CSM!

Late 9th Edition: Look at these updates CSM. They are better than Primis Soace Marines.

They're not though? Primaris still have shock assault so same number of attacks on the turn it matters and better guns.

Also Primaris can reach the top shelf without a stepladder. It's where they keep all the good guns.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Looking at the new Chaos Legionnaire stat block, I can only laugh a little.

Launch of 8th Edition: Look at these new Primaris Space Marines. They are better than CSM!

Late 9th Edition: Look at these updates CSM. They are better than Primis Soace Marines.

They're not though? Primaris still have shock assault so same number of attacks on the turn it matters and better guns.

Also Primaris can reach the top shelf without a stepladder. It's where they keep all the good guns.

...and Transhuman Physiology.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
Looking at the new Chaos Legionnaire stat block, I can only laugh a little.

Launch of 8th Edition: Look at these new Primaris Space Marines. They are better than CSM!

Late 9th Edition: Look at these updates CSM. They are better than Primis Soace Marines.

They're not though? Primaris still have shock assault so same number of attacks on the turn it matters and better guns.

Also Primaris can reach the top shelf without a stepladder. It's where they keep all the good guns.

...and Transhuman Physiology.

And the snacks.

The daemon blade looks pretty cool, but I'm not sure if the heavy chainaxe is worth it, with it hitting on fours.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
The daemon blade looks pretty cool, but I'm not sure if the heavy chainaxe is worth it, with it hitting on fours.

Heavy disagree. It's another way to bring multidamage into melee, and I'm 90% sure rerolls/extra attacks will be found in the codex.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Probably. Which makes me wonder: will our fw units keep Hateful Assault? Or lose it and gain an additional attack?

CSMs now have (or rather will have) 3 attacks now. Doesn't that pretty much mean that Hateful Assault is gone?

Yes, that's what it looks like. But I was wondering if it would stay for our fw units or if it would be removed and replaced with an additional attack.

ClockworkZion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
If it's in book it means gw came up with it like year ago and been sitting on it. Also curious no leak has mentioned it

Leaks could be from playtesting documents and not the final versions.

Yes, according to Clockworkchris' source, the leaks are coming from early playtest rules, as I keep trying to remind everyone.

So they playtested book without something big like this? Oh crap. Sounds bad.

And again this would mean gw has been sitting with this rule waiting around a year. No rush to balance things around with balance update lying around for a year...

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
The daemon blade looks pretty cool, but I'm not sure if the heavy chainaxe is worth it, with it hitting on fours.

Heavy disagree. It's another way to bring multidamage into melee, and I'm 90% sure rerolls/extra attacks will be found in the codex.

Yeah, its basically a trooper's (non-sergeant's) powerfist, and that has happened before in other books (previous editions BT, BA). With 3 attacks base +buffs, I'd agree its probably worth it. Wound other marines on 2+, they only save on 6. Pretty good odds of killing two marines outright, extremely good odds of 1.

tneva82 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Probably. Which makes me wonder: will our fw units keep Hateful Assault? Or lose it and gain an additional attack?

CSMs now have (or rather will have) 3 attacks now. Doesn't that pretty much mean that Hateful Assault is gone?

Yes, that's what it looks like. But I was wondering if it would stay for our fw units or if it would be removed and replaced with an additional attack.

ClockworkZion wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
If it's in book it means gw came up with it like year ago and been sitting on it. Also curious no leak has mentioned it

Leaks could be from playtesting documents and not the final versions.

Yes, according to Clockworkchris' source, the leaks are coming from early playtest rules, as I keep trying to remind everyone.

So they playtested book without something big like this? Oh crap. Sounds bad.

And again this would mean gw has been sitting with this rule waiting around a year. No rush to balance things around with balance update lying around for a year...

It's possible they were playtesting the rule.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
The daemon blade looks pretty cool

Remember when demon weapons used to have small downside to compensate for greater power and make them slightly less of an auto-take?

My bad, we don't do these anymore, having to think spoiled netlisting/cherrypicking too much and gave the players weird ideas like CSM being damned slaves to uncaring masters instead of Chaos Clauses showering them with bonuses with no strings attached

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Also Primaris can reach the top shelf without a stepladder. It's where they keep all the good guns.

Unless you're primaris captain/lieutenant, because sergeants stole the box with melee weapons and hellblasters are hogging the chapter's plasma weapons. Oh, and DA/SW nicked your bolt carbine while BT lifted the crate with the only primaris combi-weapons in existence and refuse to share. Go figure

 Irbis wrote:

Unless you're primaris captain/lieutenant, because sergeants stole the box with melee weapons and hellblasters are hogging the chapter's plasma weapons. Oh, and DA/SW nicked your bolt carbine while BT lifted the crate with the only primaris combi-weapons in existence and refuse to share. Go figure

And they say the CSM are supposed to be the greedy backstabbers.

So it seems from today's article that we might be several months away from an official Chaos release. I'm guessing maybe August for a release date?

 Togusa wrote:
So it seems from today's article that we might be several months away from an official Chaos release. I'm guessing maybe August for a release date?

Yeah, probably after the Horus Heresy drops.

All depends on when HH 2.0 drops. The Open Day is next month and there is a "farewell" gaming event at the very end of June for HH 1 so it could be possible that HH 2.0 is a July release which would mean CSM in June.
Nids for April, both Knights in May, CSM in June, HH 2.0 in July?

I believe we're all caught up other previewed releases now. (underworlds, norse BB, thondia).

So, I'm thinking
Chaos Knight Box, Ash Wastes, then both Knight books.

Cursed City official re-release and expansion announcement

HH or CSM. followed by the other. We know HH is after the event in mid May (the event's whole thing is 'see and paint models' before release), but I can't see this skeletal release schedule stretched past June.

Gaps filled in by...?
I dunno. I legitimately can't think of anything else in the pipe... maybe another rando LotR release?

I wouldn't be shocked by Ash Wastes and/or HH being two week preorders.

Something Old World related maybe....hopefully - teaser or something?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Something Old World related maybe....hopefully - teaser or something?

Nah. 2023 was the soonest we could expect something and it's more likely to be 2025.

Yeah, that's going to hit the same preview slots that HH did. The year that happens, there won't be any doubt by this time of year.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Heavy disagree. It's another way to bring multidamage into melee, and I'm 90% sure rerolls/extra attacks will be found in the codex.

You might be right. And there's always ways to buff BS with a sorcerer or apostle.

Irbis wrote:
Remember when demon weapons used to have small downside to compensate for greater power and make them slightly less of an auto-take?

My bad, we don't do these anymore, having to think spoiled netlisting/cherrypicking too much and gave the players weird ideas like CSM being damned slaves to uncaring masters instead of Chaos Clauses showering them with bonuses with no strings attached

The named weapons still do that, as well as daemon shells. This new weapon strikes me as one simply enhanced by Chaos power instead of actually containing a daemon.

 Irbis wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
The daemon blade looks pretty cool

Remember when demon weapons used to have small downside to compensate for greater power and make them slightly less of an auto-take?

My bad, we don't do these anymore, having to think spoiled netlisting/cherrypicking too much and gave the players weird ideas like CSM being damned slaves to uncaring masters instead of Chaos Clauses showering them with bonuses with no strings attached

Yeah, I remember that. I also remember when a basic CSM had a greater selection (8. 9 if they were a Night Lord) of Veteran Skills and could have more of them (as many as you were willing to pay for if you didn't take a Mark) than a loyalist "Veteran" (only ONE, from a selection of 3). I also remember Havocs having the option to take Special Weapons in addition to Heavys, while Devastators could just have Heavys, and Raptors being able to freely fall out of combat, while Assault Marines couldn't. Tell you what, I'll take the "downside" for Daemon Blades if we can have all of that other stuff back. But you don't want that, do you? You only want factions that you don't play to have the downsides, but none of the upsides.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Also Primaris can reach the top shelf without a stepladder. It's where they keep all the good guns.

Unless you're primaris captain/lieutenant, because sergeants stole the box with melee weapons and hellblasters are hogging the chapter's plasma weapons. Oh, and DA/SW nicked your bolt carbine while BT lifted the crate with the only primaris combi-weapons in existence and refuse to share. Go figure

Well, you have to understand, primaris are still kinda new, young, wet behind the ears. They have to learn to use all of that stuff first. And, unfortunately, it seems that Cawl put way too much effort into making them bigger, but very little into making them smarter, so they can only concentrate on learning one thing at a time. Poor guys.

Voss wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
The daemon blade looks pretty cool, but I'm not sure if the heavy chainaxe is worth it, with it hitting on fours.

Heavy disagree. It's another way to bring multidamage into melee, and I'm 90% sure rerolls/extra attacks will be found in the codex.

Yeah, its basically a trooper's (non-sergeant's) powerfist, and that has happened before in other books (previous editions BT, BA). With 3 attacks base +buffs, I'd agree its probably worth it. Wound other marines on 2+, they only save on 6. Pretty good odds of killing two marines outright, extremely good odds of 1.

Plus EC will be ignoring that -1. Though noise marines might end up so good you never take legionaries...

Also I think it's hilarious that regular ol' dudes have three attacks and Plague Marines don't.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Also I think it's hilarious that regular ol' dudes have three attacks and Plague Marines don't.

Plague gut slows them down and keeps them from swinging their weapons as fast.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Also I think it's hilarious that regular ol' dudes have three attacks and Plague Marines don't.

Plague marines always had less attacks than regular dudes, and you get an extra attack if you give them a melee loadout.