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Voss wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
The daemon blade looks pretty cool, but I'm not sure if the heavy chainaxe is worth it, with it hitting on fours.

Heavy disagree. It's another way to bring multidamage into melee, and I'm 90% sure rerolls/extra attacks will be found in the codex.

Yeah, its basically a trooper's (non-sergeant's) powerfist, and that has happened before in other books (previous editions BT, BA). With 3 attacks base +buffs, I'd agree its probably worth it. Wound other marines on 2+, they only save on 6. Pretty good odds of killing two marines outright, extremely good odds of 1.

Will add my own +1 to this. I love using the plague version of these on my plague marines. A personal best was having two of them chop through two redemptor dreads in the space of two rounds of combat! This was with a +1 to hit buff. When I can add rerolling 1s to that they can do a lot of work, but are very swingy. Lots of fun, but not dependable.

 Irbis wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
The daemon blade looks pretty cool

Remember when demon weapons used to have small downside to compensate for greater power and make them slightly less of an auto-take?

My bad, we don't do these anymore, having to think spoiled netlisting/cherrypicking too much and gave the players weird ideas like CSM being damned slaves to uncaring masters instead of Chaos Clauses showering them with bonuses with no strings attached

Mostly because most of them weren't really all that greatly powerful and as a result tended towards not being taken at all because the penalties made any power worthless to consider. This isn't rogue trader or 2nd edition where you can get away with that sort of thing anymore. Because having your HQ not get any attacks at all for the round and take a wound is just not going to cut it at all. "Fun" as they were at times.

Yeah. The Khorne Daemon Weapon in the 4th Ed 'Chaos' Codex actually make it easier to hurt yourself.

Daemon Weapons in 3.5 though. Those were great.

 Fergie0044 wrote:

Voss wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
The daemon blade looks pretty cool, but I'm not sure if the heavy chainaxe is worth it, with it hitting on fours.

Heavy disagree. It's another way to bring multidamage into melee, and I'm 90% sure rerolls/extra attacks will be found in the codex.

Yeah, its basically a trooper's (non-sergeant's) powerfist, and that has happened before in other books (previous editions BT, BA). With 3 attacks base +buffs, I'd agree its probably worth it. Wound other marines on 2+, they only save on 6. Pretty good odds of killing two marines outright, extremely good odds of 1.

Will add my own +1 to this. I love using the plague version of these on my plague marines. A personal best was having two of them chop through two redemptor dreads in the space of two rounds of combat! This was with a +1 to hit buff. When I can add rerolling 1s to that they can do a lot of work, but are very swingy. Lots of fun, but not dependable.

I WILL disagree on Plague Marines though. They have too low an attack count to get use of the cleaver thing.

Do we think some of the kill team will replace models instead of being a unit upgrade? Like the balefire acolyte replaces a unit champion?

Personally, I’d love a acolyte to serve as a squad leader, just for fluff reasons

 GaroRobe wrote:
Do we think some of the kill team will replace models instead of being a unit upgrade? Like the balefire acolyte replaces a unit champion?

Personally, I’d love a acolyte to serve as a squad leader, just for fluff reasons

Rumours say that the one with the deamon blade is the AC

I don't know... If for a squad of 5 we have: The AC, Heavy weapon guy, Special weapon guy, the acolyte and the heavy chainaxe guy. It looks pretty balanced to me. Like they are a squad of unique and diverse veterans of the long war.

 GaroRobe wrote:
Do we think some of the kill team will replace models instead of being a unit upgrade? Like the balefire acolyte replaces a unit champion?

Personally, I’d love a acolyte to serve as a squad leader, just for fluff reasons

They're upgrades. It's just the same ten CSM from the current kit with a collection of "Malibu Stacy's New Hats", as H.B.M.C puts it.

That Chainaxe is one fancy hat though.

Now that I know these aren't one-offs and are actual upgrade, I kinda sorta want a second set.

And then a third Chainaxe, 'cause I'm making a custom Black Crusade character to represent a friend's character.

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

...The AC, Heavy weapon guy, Special weapon guy, the acolyte and the heavy chainaxe guy. ...

Dont forget knifey guy with human skin strips on his power armour.

-edit HMTL is hard.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
I WILL disagree on Plague Marines though. They have too low an attack count to get use of the cleaver thing.

You think? They now have 3 attacks with it, which I think is enough to make it worthwhile. It was a no-go in 8th edition because it was only 1 attack.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
That Chainaxe is one fancy hat though.

Now that I know these aren't one-offs and are actual upgrade, I kinda sorta want a second set.

And then a third Chainaxe, 'cause I'm making a custom Black Crusade character to represent a friend's character.

In a few months, you probably won't get the choice. Like with knights and the AM upgrade sprue, I imagine all CSM sets will include it going forward.

 GaroRobe wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
That Chainaxe is one fancy hat though.

Now that I know these aren't one-offs and are actual upgrade, I kinda sorta want a second set.

And then a third Chainaxe, 'cause I'm making a custom Black Crusade character to represent a friend's character.

In a few months, you probably won't get the choice. Like with knights and the AM upgrade sprue, I imagine all CSM sets will include it going forward.

And a price increase to boot.

 Fergie0044 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
I WILL disagree on Plague Marines though. They have too low an attack count to get use of the cleaver thing.

You think? They now have 3 attacks with it, which I think is enough to make it worthwhile. It was a no-go in 8th edition because it was only 1 attack.

Plague Marines are A2 aren't they?

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Fergie0044 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
I WILL disagree on Plague Marines though. They have too low an attack count to get use of the cleaver thing.

You think? They now have 3 attacks with it, which I think is enough to make it worthwhile. It was a no-go in 8th edition because it was only 1 attack.

Plague Marines are A2 aren't they?

Every Plague Marine wields a Plague Knife and 1 in 5 can trade a boltgun for the Cleaver. This means they're wielding 2 Melee Plague Weapons and thus go to 3A.

Quick update from Chris over in the thread on B&C that basically he's got an info dump on god specific stuff and it looks like it'll be the bread and butter of the army but at his sources request he can't leak any more until such time as the book is in other leakers/previewers hands.

Dudeface wrote:
Quick update from Chris over in the thread on B&C that basically he's got an info dump on god specific stuff and it looks like it'll be the bread and butter of the army but at his sources request he can't leak any more until such time as the book is in other leakers/previewers hands.

That's nice to know. Personally, I'd like to know more about the "support" Clockworkchris mentioned for Unmarked units, as the rumored "Unmarked only" custom trait is the one that most interests me. But I'm sure all will be revealed eventually.

Raptors and Warp Talons build instructions are up:

https://i.redd.it/6s75j21u05w81.jpg

Confirmation of no lighting claws for Raptors.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Raptors and Warp Talons build instructions are up:

https://i.redd.it/6s75j21u05w81.jpg

Confirmation of no lighting claws for Raptors.

Guess my champions with Lightning claws now have power fists (which isn't bad for emperor's children)

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Raptors and Warp Talons build instructions are up:

https://i.redd.it/6s75j21u05w81.jpg

Confirmation of no lighting claws for Raptors.

Shame, but I guess they don't want to make Warp Talons less relevant by letting you run lighting claw/bolt pistol.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Raptors and Warp Talons build instructions are up:

https://i.redd.it/6s75j21u05w81.jpg

Confirmation of no lighting claws for Raptors.

Shame, but I guess they don't want to make Warp Talons less relevant by letting you run lighting claw/bolt pistol.

How, exactly, would having one lighting claw, in an entire squad of Raptors, make Warp Talons, who have two lighting claws on every single squad member, "less relevant"?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Raptors and Warp Talons build instructions are up:

https://i.redd.it/6s75j21u05w81.jpg

Confirmation of no lighting claws for Raptors.

Shame, but I guess they don't want to make Warp Talons less relevant by letting you run lighting claw/bolt pistol.

How, exactly, would having one lighting claw, in an entire squad of Raptors, make Warp Talons, who have two lighting claws on every single squad member, "less relevant"?

Sorry, my brain was thinking of every member getting a single lighting claw and a bolt pistol that you could trade for other gun options for some reason.

I blame Vanguard Vets for some reason.

That said, 5 attack base Warp Talons? Nice.

It's just so there's no overlap of models.

Also, idiotic because for the longest time a twin lightning claw champion was the only model for a long time, the classic raptor faction which also favors lightning claws doesn't get them, and both the named and unnamed raptor lords had lightning claws.

I wish misfortune on whichever cynic thought this was a good idea, not because it's that huge of an impact but because it's so spectacularly cynical for something with relatively little impact and which goes against decades of lore.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Raptors and Warp Talons build instructions are up:

https://i.redd.it/6s75j21u05w81.jpg

Confirmation of no lighting claws for Raptors.

And I'm assuming not for Warp Talons either considering 5 base attacks?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Raptors and Warp Talons build instructions are up:

https://i.redd.it/6s75j21u05w81.jpg

Confirmation of no lighting claws for Raptors.

And I'm assuming not for Warp Talons either considering 5 base attacks?

Eh, same profile. Only question is whether or not they still reroll wounds. I think I remember Clockworkchris saying that they were renamed "Warp Claws" or something, but still worked the same. It sounds like "rending claws syndrome".

Edit: It seems that they just rolled the additional attacks into the base profile. Probably for simplicities sake.

Just nonsensical. Two units that could have lightning claws, now neither has them... because why???

Found the quote from Clockworkchris:

 clockworkchris9 wrote:
More stuff

NL relics
-claws of the black hunt are back but jave been renamed, S+1 ap3 D2, does not gain reroll wounds instead gains ennemies canoot use rules that ignore wounds
-vox daemonicus is 12" no deepstrike & ennemies must pass a leadership test or cannot perform actions or psychic actions
- flayer is still there and seem to be exactly the same

If you want a laugh, leaker pointed out in terms of weapons names the book is a mess. Lightning claws appear 3 times under different names

-Warpclaws (for warp talons, dont worry they -are lightning claws in everything but name)
Accursed weapons
-And actual lightning claws

Emphasis mine. I have no idea how this makes sense.

It also appears that there is only 1 mode of firing a plasma pistol. If this is the case there is no chance of overload damage. Or am I reading that chart incorrectly?

Y'all are overreacting. Raptor Champs were broken anyway with two Lightning Claws! GW is doing the right thing with this balancing move.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
It also appears that there is only 1 mode of firing a plasma pistol. If this is the case there is no chance of overload damage. Or am I reading that chart incorrectly?

I don't think any of the box datasheets have had Overcharged Plasma on them, only safe mode.

So that's not a change, probably.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
It's just so there's no overlap of models.

Also, idiotic because for the longest time a twin lightning claw champion was the only model for a long time, the classic raptor faction which also favors lightning claws doesn't get them, and both the named and unnamed raptor lords had lightning claws.

I wish misfortune on whichever cynic thought this was a good idea, not because it's that huge of an impact but because it's so spectacularly cynical for something with relatively little impact and which goes against decades of lore.

It's idiotic because it is taking away player customization for no benefit. It is only a downside.