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Also, idiotic because for the longest time a twin lightning claw champion was the only model for a long time, the classic raptor faction which also favors lightning claws doesn't get them, and both the named and unnamed raptor lords had lightning claws.
I wish misfortune on whichever cynic thought this was a good idea, not because it's that huge of an impact but because it's so spectacularly cynical for something with relatively little impact and which goes against decades of lore.
It's idiotic because it is taking away player customization for no benefit. It is only a downside.
This is far too close to how I imagine they've designed CSM since 3.5. I know they've been powerful at times but the blandification and rigidity of their unit entries has been painful.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/28 02:55:41
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: It also appears that there is only 1 mode of firing a plasma pistol. If this is the case there is no chance of overload damage. Or am I reading that chart incorrectly?
No that's just the simplified no special rule stats these assembly instructions have. No dual profiles as no rule saying you only use one at a time.
Also, idiotic because for the longest time a twin lightning claw champion was the only model for a long time, the classic raptor faction which also favors lightning claws doesn't get them, and both the named and unnamed raptor lords had lightning claws.
I wish misfortune on whichever cynic thought this was a good idea, not because it's that huge of an impact but because it's so spectacularly cynical for something with relatively little impact and which goes against decades of lore.
It's idiotic because it is taking away player customization for no benefit. It is only a downside.
Yup. Completely idiotic. Because it doesn't even conform to GW's moronic "no model, no rules" paradigm, because the kit contains TEN lightning claws. It's completely arbitrary, and removes an option that's been available to Raptor Aspiring Champions for 23 years, since the very inception of the unit.
Also, idiotic because for the longest time a twin lightning claw champion was the only model for a long time, the classic raptor faction which also favors lightning claws doesn't get them, and both the named and unnamed raptor lords had lightning claws.
I wish misfortune on whichever cynic thought this was a good idea, not because it's that huge of an impact but because it's so spectacularly cynical for something with relatively little impact and which goes against decades of lore.
It's idiotic because it is taking away player customization for no benefit. It is only a downside.
Yup. Completely idiotic. Because it doesn't even conform to GW's moronic "no model, no rules" paradigm, because the kit contains TEN lightning claws. It's completely arbitrary, and removes an option that's been available to Raptor Aspiring Champions for 23 years, since the very inception of the unit.
"No silly, those aren't Lightning Claws they're Warp Claws. Completely different weapons, I promise!" - GW, probably definitely
That's amateur hour compared to Scything Talons...
Spoiler:
Well the Hive Tyrant and the Winged Hive Tyrant have Monstrous Scything Talons, but the Winged Hive Tyrant also has 'Tyrant Claws', which are very similar but not quite the same. The Tyranid Prime has Scything Talons. The Tervigon has Massive Scything Talons. The Trygon Prime has Trygon Scything Talons, which are Scything Talons yet don't have the same rules. Old One Eye is back to Monstrous Scything Talons. Tyranid Warriors, like the Prime, get regular Scything Talons. Hormagaunts have... Hormagaunt Talons. Sure! Why not? Let's add another weapon type. But we're not done. Tyrant Guard have Scything Talons. Lictors/Deathleapers have 'Lictor Claws and Talons' rather than actual distinct weapons now. So Talons, but more differenter Talons. Maleceptor has those Massive Scything Talons. The Scything Talons Genestealers used to get have been folded into their regular weapons like Lictors. Raveners have 2 Scything Talons and something called Ravener Claws (not to be confused with Rending Claws, which they can also get!), which are the smaller Talons that now aren't actually Talons. Totally not confusing. Trygons have Trygon Scything Talons, like the Trygon Prime. The Mawloc has Mawloc Scything Talons, which are different to all the other Scything Talons. The Exocrine, a model that very clearly has smaller Scything Talons, has 'Powerful Limbs'. What's visual consistency anyway? Carnifex has Carnifex Scything Talons. Screamer Killers have Screamer Killer Scything Talons. Thornbacks have... Thornback Scything Talons? No! Wrong! They also have Carnifex Scything Talons, because that makes total sense and is completely consistent, right?
And lets not even talk about the amount of different types of Bolter.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/04/28 05:43:36
Also, idiotic because for the longest time a twin lightning claw champion was the only model for a long time, the classic raptor faction which also favors lightning claws doesn't get them, and both the named and unnamed raptor lords had lightning claws.
I wish misfortune on whichever cynic thought this was a good idea, not because it's that huge of an impact but because it's so spectacularly cynical for something with relatively little impact and which goes against decades of lore.
It's idiotic because it is taking away player customization for no benefit. It is only a downside.
Yup. Completely idiotic. Because it doesn't even conform to GW's moronic "no model, no rules" paradigm, because the kit contains TEN lightning claws. It's completely arbitrary, and removes an option that's been available to Raptor Aspiring Champions for 23 years, since the very inception of the unit.
Let's not throw the warp spawn out with the bathwater. The datasheets are good reference points, but don't always have all the options the units do so it's possible the Aspiring Champ will still have LCs.
Also, idiotic because for the longest time a twin lightning claw champion was the only model for a long time, the classic raptor faction which also favors lightning claws doesn't get them, and both the named and unnamed raptor lords had lightning claws.
I wish misfortune on whichever cynic thought this was a good idea, not because it's that huge of an impact but because it's so spectacularly cynical for something with relatively little impact and which goes against decades of lore.
It's idiotic because it is taking away player customization for no benefit. It is only a downside.
Yup. Completely idiotic. Because it doesn't even conform to GW's moronic "no model, no rules" paradigm, because the kit contains TEN lightning claws. It's completely arbitrary, and removes an option that's been available to Raptor Aspiring Champions for 23 years, since the very inception of the unit.
Let's not throw the warp spawn out with the bathwater. The datasheets are good reference points, but don't always have all the options the units do so it's possible the Aspiring Champ will still have LCs.
Really? Which 9th edition instruction sheets haven't included all of the available options? Because I've been hoping that a lot of the, "weirdness", in these leaks was down to them being early playtest rules. But the leak for Raptors said that the Aspiring Champion could take a plasma pistol, power fist, or power sword. And here it is, in print.
Also, idiotic because for the longest time a twin lightning claw champion was the only model for a long time, the classic raptor faction which also favors lightning claws doesn't get them, and both the named and unnamed raptor lords had lightning claws.
I wish misfortune on whichever cynic thought this was a good idea, not because it's that huge of an impact but because it's so spectacularly cynical for something with relatively little impact and which goes against decades of lore.
It's idiotic because it is taking away player customization for no benefit. It is only a downside.
Yup. Completely idiotic. Because it doesn't even conform to GW's moronic "no model, no rules" paradigm, because the kit contains TEN lightning claws. It's completely arbitrary, and removes an option that's been available to Raptor Aspiring Champions for 23 years, since the very inception of the unit.
Let's not throw the warp spawn out with the bathwater. The datasheets are good reference points, but don't always have all the options the units do so it's possible the Aspiring Champ will still have LCs.
Really? Which 9th edition instruction sheets haven't included all of the available options? Because I've been hoping that a lot of the, "weirdness", in these leaks was down to them being early playtest rules. But the leak for Raptors said that the Aspiring Champion could take a plasma pistol, power fist, or power sword. And here it is, in print.
Yeah. I think it's time we accept that not much changed since the "early playtest rules". We can't really bury our heads in the sand any longer
It'll be a shame if I have to scrap my plans for a 9 Legions project and sell my CSM. As bad as things got in previous editions I've only ever binned horrifically broken models, never sold anything off. Hell, there are models in my current Black Legion force that are repaints of my Word Bearers from when 6th dropped.
But if things haven't changed from those first load of leaks then I'm done with the army.
Gert wrote: It'll be a shame if I have to scrap my plans for a 9 Legions project and sell my CSM. As bad as things got in previous editions I've only ever binned horrifically broken models, never sold anything off. Hell, there are models in my current Black Legion force that are repaints of my Word Bearers from when 6th dropped.
But if things haven't changed from those first load of leaks then I'm done with the army.
Cool more blandness, can't have creativity cause reasons.....
I swear if they confirm the "no jet pack for lords and sorcerers", I'm not buying this codex. Im still holding out hope that was just an early playtest thing or maybe the Lord/Sorcerer with Jetpack/Wings is a separate entry. But the more that gets confirmed the more I fear that its true.
So far all my Chosen are now non-legal, all my terms are non-legal, and my 20 man csm blobs need broken into smaller units but at least theyre still playable
"I prayed to that corpse for a millenia with no response, what makes you think he'll answer you?"
2000 Loki Snaketongue and the Serpents of Malice
Also, idiotic because for the longest time a twin lightning claw champion was the only model for a long time, the classic raptor faction which also favors lightning claws doesn't get them, and both the named and unnamed raptor lords had lightning claws.
I wish misfortune on whichever cynic thought this was a good idea, not because it's that huge of an impact but because it's so spectacularly cynical for something with relatively little impact and which goes against decades of lore.
It's idiotic because it is taking away player customization for no benefit. It is only a downside.
Yup. Completely idiotic. Because it doesn't even conform to GW's moronic "no model, no rules" paradigm, because the kit contains TEN lightning claws. It's completely arbitrary, and removes an option that's been available to Raptor Aspiring Champions for 23 years, since the very inception of the unit.
Let's not throw the warp spawn out with the bathwater. The datasheets are good reference points, but don't always have all the options the units do so it's possible the Aspiring Champ will still have LCs.
Really? Which 9th edition instruction sheets haven't included all of the available options? Because I've been hoping that a lot of the, "weirdness", in these leaks was down to them being early playtest rules. But the leak for Raptors said that the Aspiring Champion could take a plasma pistol, power fist, or power sword. And here it is, in print.
Yeah. I think it's time we accept that not much changed since the "early playtest rules". We can't really bury our heads in the sand any longer
Yeah, as more stuff gets confirmed, the more it looks like the stuff that we were hoping wouldn't make it into the final codex will.
Gert wrote:It'll be a shame if I have to scrap my plans for a 9 Legions project and sell my CSM. As bad as things got in previous editions I've only ever binned horrifically broken models, never sold anything off. Hell, there are models in my current Black Legion force that are repaints of my Word Bearers from when 6th dropped.
But if things haven't changed from those first load of leaks then I'm done with the army.
Done with the army?
If all of this is true, and my Night Lords can't be led by a psychopath with a pair of jet engines strapped to his back like they've been for the last 20 years, then I'm done with the game.
I didn't like the rumours but chalked it up to early versions or inaccurate reporting but it's looking to be more true.
I just can't be bothered with another edition where I play at the start, get absolutely dunked on by every other army then eventually get a supplement book that makes it worth playing again. I've done it in 6th, 7th and 8th so far and my positivity has only so much fuel.
If all of this is true, and my Night Lords can't be led by a psychopath with a pair of jet engines strapped to his back like they've been for the last 20 years, then I'm done with the game.
I still have my Drukhari that I enjoy using, and sort of my Deathwatch. My main game is HH but if that turns out to be a bolthole then I'll be stuck using the old ruleset with nothing to look forward to for either of the systems I play.
The Tyranid Codex had me giddy with excitement. It didn't look like we were losing all that much (basically no model/no rule stuff on Tyrants, and some typical GW pendulum-swinging overbalancing of certain units) but gaining tons. There are problems with it (12 types of Scything Talons, needless change that prevents Tyrannofexes from going in pods, making spores kinda junk, how the various synapse-related rules don't really interact with one another in a consistent fashion, the Crusade rules are a little on the shallow side even if they do a good job at emphasising the swarm composition during different stages of a Tyranid invasion, etc.), but overall I feel it was a truly great Tyranid Codex - the first one I've felt good about in many'a edition.
On the other hand, from the word go this new Chaos Codex has terrified me, as it appeared directionless or just trying to emulate Chapter Tactics without any real reason or with any cohesion ("You are the... *throws dice*scary Legion, and you get exploding sixes on... *spins wheel*pistols during the... *throws dart*assault phase!") all the while removing option after option after option, and all for no good reason. Not even being able to take claws on a Raptor Champ is just another in a seemingly endless line of flavour-reducing, option-removing, blandifying, Jervisifying changes that drive me up the fething wall.
Contrast that to the most recent Chaos Codex - Thousand Sons - which seem to revitalise them as a stand-alone force, and restructure them to make them a more cohesive force with tons of different options*.
*Yes, I know, not all those options are effective in "the meta", but I don't give two feths about that.
Gert wrote: I didn't like the rumours but chalked it up to early versions or inaccurate reporting but it's looking to be more true.
wAiT aNd SeE!!!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/04/28 13:47:55
If all of this is true, and my Night Lords can't be led by a psychopath with a pair of jet engines strapped to his back like they've been for the last 20 years, then I'm done with the game.
Y'know, my very small circle has mostly gotten into modding old editions since early 9th has continued to go nuts, and I feel like it's been good for our lives, since we don't play tournaments anyway.
You miss out on the fun new stuff and the game getting shaken up with a new version every so often (though as seen right here, I at least am still keeping up on the conversation a bit), but you can treat 40k as a sandbox (modding things as conservatively or freely as you feel like) which is really where we at least enjoy the game since it's never been very competitively balanced, anyway. No feeling like you need to keep up with the rules, and if there's some new shiny kit that you'd just love to play with, chances are in the history of 40k units there's an easy way to proxy it or use existing pieces as a pretty easy template.
I have waited and continue to do so. If when this had all started like 6 months ago or whatever I'd just dumped my CSM that would have been an overreaction and extremely childish.
Now we're closer to the date, I don't like what I'm seeing but I'm still waiting for the Codex to come out because, in the end, this is not a life or death situation. I will see what reviews of the Codex say from sources I trust to be fair and I'll maybe even pick up the book to try it out. I'll be sad if I end up selling my CSM but I'm not quitting 40k because of it.
I have waited and continue to do so. If when this had all started like 6 months ago or whatever I'd just dumped my CSM that would have been an overreaction and extremely childish.
Now we're closer to the date, I don't like what I'm seeing but I'm still waiting for the Codex to come out because, in the end, this is not a life or death situation. I will see what reviews of the Codex say from sources I trust to be fair and I'll maybe even pick up the book to try it out. I'll be sad if I end up selling my CSM but I'm not quitting 40k because of it.
It really is too early to say if they'll be "good" if that's the metric that breaks the camels back.
Whether an army is good or not is, in my mind, unrelated to what the army is. If an army is super effective on the table yet is bland, optionless, flavourless, colourless, and lots of other words that mean roughly the same thing, then who cares if its "good" other than insane tournament players?
Harlequins are a "good" army, but I doubt the people who wrote the book envisioned that the "good" version of that army would have 9 Voidweavers.
If all of this is true, and my Night Lords can't be led by a psychopath with a pair of jet engines strapped to his back like they've been for the last 20 years, then I'm done with the game.
Y'know, my very small circle has mostly gotten into modding old editions since early 9th has continued to go nuts, and I feel like it's been good for our lives, since we don't play tournaments anyway.
You miss out on the fun new stuff and the game getting shaken up with a new version every so often (though as seen right here, I at least am still keeping up on the conversation a bit), but you can treat 40k as a sandbox (modding things as conservatively or freely as you feel like) which is really where we at least enjoy the game since it's never been very competitively balanced, anyway. No feeling like you need to keep up with the rules, and if there's some new shiny kit that you'd just love to play with, chances are in the history of 40k units there's an easy way to proxy it or use existing pieces as a pretty easy template.
Oh, I didn't mean that I was done playing with my army, just "official gw 9th edition 40k". I'll definitely be trying to get people turned on to older editions, Grimdark Future, or something. There's plenty of other games that my models will work just fine in.
Gert wrote:I still have my Drukhari that I enjoy using, and sort of my Deathwatch. My main game is HH but if that turns out to be a bolthole then I'll be stuck using the old ruleset with nothing to look forward to for either of the systems I play.
Yeah, well my other army is R&H, and we both know how that worked out, don't we?
ClockworkZion wrote: Let's not throw the warp spawn out with the bathwater. The datasheets are good reference points, but don't always have all the options the units do so it's possible the Aspiring Champ will still have LCs.
Really? Which 9th edition instruction sheets haven't included all of the available options? Because I've been hoping that a lot of the, "weirdness", in these leaks was down to them being early playtest rules. But the leak for Raptors said that the Aspiring Champion could take a plasma pistol, power fist, or power sword. And here it is, in print.
Monopose boyz, for example. The datasheet only has the options from the box listed (PK and big choppa), but the nob can still take the full array of equipment from the nobz box like killsaws, powa stabbas or kombi-weapons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/28 14:19:13
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Dudeface wrote: It really is too early to say if they'll be "good" if that's the metric that breaks the camels back.
It's more down to the army being fun to play.
In 6th with my CSM, I went heavily into Nurgle fielding loads of "converted" Plague Marines, Obliterators, and very cursed Chaos Spawn. I lost all the time but I had more fun than with my Orks because I could do some really dumb things with Chaos Marks and Relics and stuff.
When I swapped to Daemonkin in 7th, I didn't rack up more wins than I did with CSM but the mechanics of the army were loads of fun and losing didn't feel like losing because my dead units gave me points to use the cool table the army had. Khorne marked Daemon Knights in a KDK list was just buckets of fun because I either butchered the enemy or blew up the enemy and got a lot of "Blood for the Blood God" points.
Likewise, I am not winning games in 9th with my Deathwatch but I still have fun with the army, in fact, it's the one army I actually like using Strategems on for things like Brotherhood of Veterans for maximum Flesh Tearers angery, Teleporting in Aggressors for some roasting times, or doubling my Auto bolt Rifles shooting for maximum *brrrrrt*. I haven't quite found that with Drukhari yet but I do need to play them more often.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/28 14:26:24
ClockworkZion wrote: Let's not throw the warp spawn out with the bathwater. The datasheets are good reference points, but don't always have all the options the units do so it's possible the Aspiring Champ will still have LCs.
Really? Which 9th edition instruction sheets haven't included all of the available options? Because I've been hoping that a lot of the, "weirdness", in these leaks was down to them being early playtest rules. But the leak for Raptors said that the Aspiring Champion could take a plasma pistol, power fist, or power sword. And here it is, in print.
Monopose boyz, for example. The datasheet only has the options from the box listed (PK and big choppa), but the nob can still take the full array of equipment from the nobz box like killsaws, powa stabbas or kombi-weapons.
Ok, but in this case, the omitted weapon option is in the box listed. Ten of them, to be exact. Kinda weird that they wouldn't put them in the instructions then, isn't it? Unless the option has been removed, for "Reasons".
Dudeface wrote: It really is too early to say if they'll be "good" if that's the metric that breaks the camels back.
It's more down to the army being fun to play.
In 6th with my CSM, I went heavily into Nurgle fielding loads of "converted" Plague Marines, Obliterators, and very cursed Chaos Spawn. I lost all the time but I had more fun than with my Orks because I could do some really dumb things with Chaos Marks and Relics and stuff.
When I swapped to Daemonkin in 7th, I didn't rack up more wins than I did with CSM but the mechanics of the army were loads of fun and losing didn't feel like losing because my dead units gave me points to use the cool table the army had. Khorne marked Daemon Knights in a KDK list was just buckets of fun because I either butchered the enemy or blew up the enemy and got a lot of "Blood for the Blood God" points.
Likewise, I am not winning games in 9th with my Deathwatch but I still have fun with the army, in fact, it's the one army I actually like using Strategems on for things like Brotherhood of Veterans for maximum Flesh Tearers angery, Teleporting in Aggressors for some roasting times, or doubling my Auto bolt Rifles shooting for maximum *brrrrrt*. I haven't quite found that with Drukhari yet but I do need to play them more often.
That's more than fair, it needs to be something you'll enjoy using and if it's a turn off in the rumoured iteration that's more than understandable. I would just say that permeance is not a big thing for GW at the best of times though and there's inevitably going to be a new codex within 3 years that's likely got different mechanics, so maybe better to store the army than sell it?
Maybe, but they barely got used in 8th and I've used them once in 9th so far. Another 3 years in storage isn't really doing any good.
But like I said, waiting for the Codex for the final verdict.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/28 15:26:33
in bolter and chainsword they are saying that the coin of may is chaos, and the miniature a blackstone cultist. I don't know if monopose or the new multicomponent models
zamerion wrote: in bolter and chainsword they are saying that the coin of may is chaos, and the miniature a blackstone cultist. I don't know if monopose or the new multicomponent models
The... coin of may? Is that some new thing I missed, or am I being a jerk and pointing out a typo?
zamerion wrote: in bolter and chainsword they are saying that the coin of may is chaos, and the miniature a blackstone cultist. I don't know if monopose or the new multicomponent models
The... coin of may? Is that some new thing I missed, or am I being a jerk and pointing out a typo?
The little metal token you get when buying for a certain amount at GW shop.
2000 Loki Snaketongue and the Serpents of Malice 
REDACTED 
