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warpedpig wrote: It’s funny how long we have to wait for a few new chaos sculpts but there’s already so many amazing 3rd party STLs of every chaos model that are better than GW models. GW should just have a library of STLs to download like iTunes music except for models. 3D printing is gonna steal so many sales away. Either get with the Revolution or lose out.
I more or less own a 3d print factory and still pump something like $10-15k into GWs plastics annually, and don't see that much changing. In fact, that 3d print factory is funding my GW habit. I'd much rather have the plastics than the resin prints, personally. The "3d printing revolution" isn't going to go down anywhere near the way you think it will (take it from an engineer that also works in additive manufacturing professionally, besides my side-hustle).
Let's just stop this conversation right here and stick to Chaos Space Marine codex, models, and rumors.
Those Torments they previewed are basically how I envisioned Chaos Spawn to look.
In fact, I bought 10 of the Greater Possessed minis for the explicit purpose of converting them into chaos spawn with similar aesthetics to the Torments for my Thousand Sons army... but now I think I might just buy a few boxes of Torments.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
xeen wrote: Ok. Lost and damned. I would prefer it’s own book over being in CSM but that is my preference. Also I am going to totally buy all this stuff
They kind of occupy the same role in the CSM book as Harlequins or Kroot. They could be expanded into their own independent faction, but right now GW doesnt want to dedicate the time and resources to do that when they are focusing on a wider sub-fraction army in World Eaters and a new army with the squats.
So cultists/mutated cultists are confirmed, it seems renegade guard will be by the end of this warhammerfest. All I really need now to be happy is for CSM to get some kind of light tank squad unit associated with cultists and I'll be happy. Maybe finally some blood pact stalk tanks, eh?
cole1114 wrote: So cultists/mutated cultists are confirmed, it seems renegade guard will be by the end of this warhammerfest. All I really need now to be happy is for CSM to get some kind of light tank squad unit associated with cultists and I'll be happy. Maybe finally some blood pact stalk tanks, eh?
Maybe if Venomcrawlers get a standalone kit with some options?
My only concern is something GW has been doing lately which is who was asking for mutant/possessed cultists in the CSM book.
'Who was asking for X?' is a pretty dead end question. Even if it was 'nobody,' it still doesn't invalidate new releases.
Though in this case the 'who' is Renegades and Heretics/Lost and the Damned players, and they would quite like their army back.
Ok, I see my Mutant Rabble, and apparently my infantry are coming for Killteam first (and can hopefully be Veterans). Now I just need my tanks, Valkyries, Ogryns, and most importantly, my Marauders. Where are my Marauders gw?
So are renegade guard rumored to be their own codex? Because chaos space marines just got a killteam with warzone nachmund. No faction so far has 2 killteams, some don't even have 1 killteam.
Would be obnoxious for chaos space marines get another killteam for the warzone with necrons and ultramarines being featured in the tease.
BrotherGecko wrote: So are renegade guard rumored to be their own codex? Because chaos space marines just got a killteam with warzone nachmund. No faction so far has 2 killteams, some don't even have 1 killteam.
Would be obnoxious for chaos space marines get another killteam for the warzone with necrons and ultramarines being featured in the tease.
The new CSM killteam got rid of the cultist option from the original kill team 2.0 release. So makes sense to replace that.
BrotherGecko wrote: So are renegade guard rumored to be their own codex? Because chaos space marines just got a killteam with warzone nachmund. No faction so far has 2 killteams, some don't even have 1 killteam.
Would be obnoxious for chaos space marines get another killteam for the warzone with necrons and ultramarines being featured in the tease.
The new CSM killteam got rid of the cultist option from the original kill team 2.0 release. So makes sense to replace that.
Sure but doesn't change that GW would now be releasing a Killteam not tied to the featured enemy of the warzone for a faction that already got a Killteam because they were the featured enemy of the warzone it was released with.
BrotherGecko wrote: So are renegade guard rumored to be their own codex? Because chaos space marines just got a killteam with warzone nachmund. No faction so far has 2 killteams, some don't even have 1 killteam.
Would be obnoxious for chaos space marines get another killteam for the warzone with necrons and ultramarines being featured in the tease.
The new CSM killteam got rid of the cultist option from the original kill team 2.0 release. So makes sense to replace that.
Sure but doesn't change that GW would now be releasing a Killteam not tied to the featured enemy of the warzone for a faction that already got a Killteam because they were the featured enemy of the warzone it was released with.
I mean if Kasrkin are the other kill team that only mucks it up even more lol. Tho IIRC, weirdly, veteran guardsmen aren't the only choice for guard compared to every other faction that got a special team.
Also it just hit me abaddon will probably have the shadowsun "take him as a supreme commander alongside any other legion without breaking their doctrines" rule. Or at least, I hope he does. I could put my artel W dread lord to good use as proxy for him...
BrotherGecko wrote: So are renegade guard rumored to be their own codex? Because chaos space marines just got a killteam with warzone nachmund. No faction so far has 2 killteams, some don't even have 1 killteam.
Would be obnoxious for chaos space marines get another killteam for the warzone with necrons and ultramarines being featured in the tease.
The new CSM killteam got rid of the cultist option from the original kill team 2.0 release. So makes sense to replace that.
Sure but doesn't change that GW would now be releasing a Killteam not tied to the featured enemy of the warzone for a faction that already got a Killteam because they were the featured enemy of the warzone it was released with.
I mean if Kasrkin are the other kill team that only mucks it up even more lol. Tho IIRC, weirdly, veteran guardsmen aren't the only choice for guard compared to every other faction that got a special team.
Also it just hit me abaddon will probably have the shadowsun "take him as a supreme commander alongside any other legion without breaking their doctrines" rule. Or at least, I hope he does. I could put my artel W dread lord to good use as proxy for him...
Abaddon is the leader of the Black Legion. He isn't the "Supreme Commander" of all Heretic Astartes, and giving him such a rule would just water down the other Legions.
BrotherGecko wrote: So are renegade guard rumored to be their own codex? Because chaos space marines just got a killteam with warzone nachmund. No faction so far has 2 killteams, some don't even have 1 killteam.
Would be obnoxious for chaos space marines get another killteam for the warzone with necrons and ultramarines being featured in the tease.
The new CSM killteam got rid of the cultist option from the original kill team 2.0 release. So makes sense to replace that.
Sure but doesn't change that GW would now be releasing a Killteam not tied to the featured enemy of the warzone for a faction that already got a Killteam because they were the featured enemy of the warzone it was released with.
I mean if Kasrkin are the other kill team that only mucks it up even more lol. Tho IIRC, weirdly, veteran guardsmen aren't the only choice for guard compared to every other faction that got a special team.
Also it just hit me abaddon will probably have the shadowsun "take him as a supreme commander alongside any other legion without breaking their doctrines" rule. Or at least, I hope he does. I could put my artel W dread lord to good use as proxy for him...
Abaddon is the leader of the Black Legion. He isn't the "Supreme Commander" of all Heretic Astartes, and giving him such a rule would just water down the other Legions.
He's probably gonna get that rule anyway.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
H.B.M.C. wrote: But he kinda is though. He took the place of Horus, who was the Primarch of the Sons of Horus, but the overall commander of the Emperor's armies.
Dooby is the one that draws in forces from all over to enact the Black Crusades.
Also he made all the traitor primarchs kneel to him, and at the very least Decimus' night lords have sworn allegiance (which, as of recent lore, might be legion-strength) along with people like Honsou/etc.
BrotherGecko wrote: So are renegade guard rumored to be their own codex? Because chaos space marines just got a killteam with warzone nachmund. No faction so far has 2 killteams, some don't even have 1 killteam.
Would be obnoxious for chaos space marines get another killteam for the warzone with necrons and ultramarines being featured in the tease.
The new CSM killteam got rid of the cultist option from the original kill team 2.0 release. So makes sense to replace that.
Sure but doesn't change that GW would now be releasing a Killteam not tied to the featured enemy of the warzone for a faction that already got a Killteam because they were the featured enemy of the warzone it was released with.
I mean if Kasrkin are the other kill team that only mucks it up even more lol. Tho IIRC, weirdly, veteran guardsmen aren't the only choice for guard compared to every other faction that got a special team.
Also it just hit me abaddon will probably have the shadowsun "take him as a supreme commander alongside any other legion without breaking their doctrines" rule. Or at least, I hope he does. I could put my artel W dread lord to good use as proxy for him...
Abaddon is the leader of the Black Legion. He isn't the "Supreme Commander" of all Heretic Astartes, and giving him such a rule would just water down the other Legions.
He's probably gonna get that rule anyway.
Yes, probably. It'll still be though.
H.B.M.C. wrote:But he kinda is though. He took the place of Horus, who was the Primarch of the Sons of Horus, but the overall commander of the Emperor's armies.
Dooby is the one that draws in forces from all over to enact the Black Crusades.
There are plenty of warbands and Heretic Astartes that don't bend the knee to Abaddon. If everyone did, then everyone would be Black Legion, and they aren't. If members of other Legions want to be under the direct control of Abaddon, then they defect to the Black Legion.
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote: GW just needs release to another Lost and the Damned codex again, almost nothing here is actually CSM. Daemon Prince is amazing and I might buy a couple even though I don't play CSM.
That's because they scattered CSM out over a few different releases. New Warpsmith, New Chosen, New Possessed, New Unit Upgrades for CSM squads, New Daemon Prince AND then a bunch of new mortals for people who actually read stories about all the mortal chattel the Legions use in the Long War and want that on the tabletop.
Gadzilla666 wrote: There are plenty of warbands and Heretic Astartes that don't bend the knee to Abaddon. If everyone did, then everyone would be Black Legion, and they aren't. If members of other Legions want to be under the direct control of Abaddon, then they defect to the Black Legion.
By that logic, all the Legions during the Heresy were Sons of Horus Marines.
Just because you have an overall supreme commander doesn't mean your force suddenly becomes Black Legion.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Abaddon is the leader of the Black Legion. He isn't the "Supreme Commander" of all Heretic Astartes, and giving him such a rule would just water down the other Legions.
Abaddon is the Warmaster of Chaos, the successor to Horus. It's not just the Black Legion that pledges loyalty to him. The Legions and Warbands retain their colours and traditions but they serve the Warmaster all the same. That's the point of Abaddon's Black Crusades, they unite the factions under his banner in the same way that lords and nobles of the medieval age would pledge to a higher ranking lord or noble and march to war as their vassal.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/05 03:09:10
Gadzilla666 wrote: There are plenty of warbands and Heretic Astartes that don't bend the knee to Abaddon. If everyone did, then everyone would be Black Legion, and they aren't. If members of other Legions want to be under the direct control of Abaddon, then they defect to the Black Legion.
By that logic, all the Legions during the Heresy were Sons of Horus Marines.
Just because you have an overall supreme commander doesn't mean your force suddenly becomes Black Legion.
The point is that Abaddon isn't the "overall Supreme Commander" of all Heretic Astartes. He may have nominal control of any Warbands that commit to his Crusades, but all Heretic Astartes Warbands don't commit to them. And those that do generally go off and do their own things afterwards. That's exactly what happened after the 13th Black Crusade. If Abaddon was really the "Supreme Commander" of those Warbands, then he would have been able to maintain control over them after the Fall of Cadia. But he couldn't. Because they only committed to his control long enough to get what they wanted, and after they got it, they went their own way.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Abaddon is the leader of the Black Legion. He isn't the "Supreme Commander" of all Heretic Astartes, and giving him such a rule would just water down the other Legions.
Abaddon is the Warmaster of Chaos, the successor to Horus. It's not just the Black Legion that pledges loyalty to him. The Legions and Warbands retain their colours and traditions but they serve the Warmaster all the same. That's the point of Abaddon's Black Crusades, they unite the factions under his banner in the same way that lords and nobles of the medieval age would pledge to a higher ranking lord or noble and march to war as their vassal.
They only follow him when it suits them, and when it doesn't, they don't. When the Night Lords forces at Crythe decided that they'd had enough of Abaddon's , they left him to deal with the Imperium by himself. Other warbands do likewise.
Gadzilla666 wrote: There are plenty of warbands and Heretic Astartes that don't bend the knee to Abaddon. If everyone did, then everyone would be Black Legion, and they aren't. If members of other Legions want to be under the direct control of Abaddon, then they defect to the Black Legion.
By that logic, all the Legions during the Heresy were Sons of Horus Marines.
Just because you have an overall supreme commander doesn't mean your force suddenly becomes Black Legion.
The point is that Abaddon isn't the "overall Supreme Commander" of all Heretic Astartes. He may have nominal control of any Warbands that commit to his Crusades, but all Heretic Astartes Warbands don't commit to them. And those that do generally go off and do their own things afterwards. That's exactly what happened after the 13th Black Crusade. If Abaddon was really the "Supreme Commander" of those Warbands, then he would have been able to maintain control over them after the Fall of Cadia. But he couldn't. Because they only committed to his control long enough to get what they wanted, and after they got it, they went their own way.
Guilliman has nominal control over the entire Imperium, but once the Indomitus Crusade was mainly resolved, chapters like the Black Templars and Dark Angel's mostly went off to do their own things afterwards. Clearly Guilliman shouldn't have the Supreme Commander rule either.
Gadzilla666 wrote: They only follow him when it suits them, and when it doesn't, they don't. When the Night Lords forces at Crythe decided that they'd had enough of Abaddon's , they left him to deal with the Imperium by himself. Other warbands do likewise.
And yet there are countless other Warbands, Companies, Hosts, and Harrows that follow the Warmaster always. This isn't even a grey area of whether or not Abaddon should follow in the footsteps of Guilliman and Shadowsun because he objectively is the Supreme Commander of Chaos, it is literally in his title for god's sake.
Seriously, how does this affect you in any way?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/05 03:30:31
Gadzilla666 wrote: They only follow him when it suits them, and when it doesn't, they don't. When the Night Lords forces at Crythe decided that they'd had enough of Abaddon's , they left him to deal with the Imperium by himself. Other warbands do likewise.
And yet there are countless other Warbands, Companies, Hosts, and Harrows that follow the Warmaster always. This isn't even a grey area of whether or not Abaddon should follow in the footsteps of Guilliman and Shadowsun because he objectively is the Supreme Commander of Chaos, it is literally in his title for god's sake.
Seriously, how does this affect you in any way?
Because it annoys me, because it's more of the "Black Legion uber alles" we've always gotten. But he'll probably get it, and I've admitted as much. Sorry to have ruffled so many Black Legion feathers.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Abaddon is the leader of the Black Legion. He isn't the "Supreme Commander" of all Heretic Astartes, and giving him such a rule would just water down the other Legions.
Abaddon is the Warmaster of Chaos, the successor to Horus. It's not just the Black Legion that pledges loyalty to him. The Legions and Warbands retain their colours and traditions but they serve the Warmaster all the same. That's the point of Abaddon's Black Crusades, they unite the factions under his banner in the same way that lords and nobles of the medieval age would pledge to a higher ranking lord or noble and march to war as their vassal.
They only follow him when it suits them, and when it doesn't, they don't. When the Night Lords forces at Crythe decided that they'd had enough of Abaddon's , they left him to deal with the Imperium by himself. Other warbands do likewise.
Still not as much fun as them using the Red Corsair Terminators as moving shields while giggling like idiots the entire time.
Gadzilla666 wrote: They only follow him when it suits them, and when it doesn't, they don't. When the Night Lords forces at Crythe decided that they'd had enough of Abaddon's , they left him to deal with the Imperium by himself. Other warbands do likewise.
And yet there are countless other Warbands, Companies, Hosts, and Harrows that follow the Warmaster always. This isn't even a grey area of whether or not Abaddon should follow in the footsteps of Guilliman and Shadowsun because he objectively is the Supreme Commander of Chaos, it is literally in his title for god's sake.
Seriously, how does this affect you in any way?
Because it annoys me, because it's more of the "Black Legion uber alles" we've always gotten.
Is it?
Dooby being the supreme commander of the forces of Chaos makes all Chaos Black Legion about as much as Guilliman being the supreme commander of the Imperium makes all Imperium forces Ultramarines.
Gadzilla666 wrote: They only follow him when it suits them, and when it doesn't, they don't. When the Night Lords forces at Crythe decided that they'd had enough of Abaddon's , they left him to deal with the Imperium by himself. Other warbands do likewise.
And yet there are countless other Warbands, Companies, Hosts, and Harrows that follow the Warmaster always. This isn't even a grey area of whether or not Abaddon should follow in the footsteps of Guilliman and Shadowsun because he objectively is the Supreme Commander of Chaos, it is literally in his title for god's sake.
Seriously, how does this affect you in any way?
Because it annoys me, because it's more of the "Black Legion uber alles" we've always gotten.
Is it?
Dooby being the supreme commander of the forces of Chaos makes all Chaos Black Legion about as much as Guilliman being the supreme commander of the Imperium makes all Imperium forces Ultramarines.
No, it doesn't make them all Black Legion. It says that they all do what the leader of the Black Legion says. Which, they don't. If Imperial forces don't do what Gulliman says, they're Heretics. If Chaos forces don't do what Abaddon says, they're just doing what Chaos does. Chaos isn't a unified force like the Imperium. If they were, then they'd have gotten a lot more accomplished in the last 10,000 years.
Gadzilla666 wrote: They only follow him when it suits them, and when it doesn't, they don't. When the Night Lords forces at Crythe decided that they'd had enough of Abaddon's , they left him to deal with the Imperium by himself. Other warbands do likewise.
And yet there are countless other Warbands, Companies, Hosts, and Harrows that follow the Warmaster always. This isn't even a grey area of whether or not Abaddon should follow in the footsteps of Guilliman and Shadowsun because he objectively is the Supreme Commander of Chaos, it is literally in his title for god's sake.
Seriously, how does this affect you in any way?
Because it annoys me, because it's more of the "Black Legion uber alles" we've always gotten.
Is it?
Dooby being the supreme commander of the forces of Chaos makes all Chaos Black Legion about as much as Guilliman being the supreme commander of the Imperium makes all Imperium forces Ultramarines.
No, it doesn't make them all Black Legion. It says that they all do what the leader of the Black Legion says. Which, they don't. If Imperial forces don't do what Gulliman says, they're Heretics. If Chaos forces don't do what Abaddon says, they're just doing what Chaos does. Chaos isn't a unified force like the Imperium. If they were, then they'd have gotten a lot more accomplished in the last 10,000 years.
But, again, he'll probably get the rule anyway.
I mean you could try spurning the guy with the most connections, resources and personnel under his control, but you probably won't live long and people would be willing to shoot you in the back to get something out of him in the bargain.
though.
