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 Sersi wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
I'm glad Possessed got a huge upgrade but does anyone feel that 5 attacks each is a bit.....overkill?

Not if their costed correctly. But its a new kit and they need them to move so they'll be under costed for at least a few months.
That said possessed are going to be crazy with the Malefic discipline, Legion Trait, Marks, Icons, and Stratagems.

I'm guessing they're probably gonna lose Icons, but who knows?

If the kit doesn't have an Icon bit in it, they won't get Icons.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
If the kit doesn't have an Icon bit in it, they won't get Icons.

Isn't that an Icon on the Possessed with the chainsword in the top picture in the article?

It looks like one. OtOH I would say that any model could be carrying an Icon since there's no definition of one in the game. An Icon IRL could be anything from a tooth of a Saint up to a banner or burial shroud. So if your opponent says I don't see an Icon on that unit you can always respond by saying it's in that model's pocket.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
It looks like one. OtOH I would say that any model could be carrying an Icon since there's no definition of one in the game. An Icon IRL could be anything from a tooth of a Saint up to a banner or burial shroud. So if your opponent says I don't see an Icon on that unit you can always respond by saying it's in that model's pocket.

Ehhh....I seriously doubt that's how gw will see it when they decide which units can and cannot take an Icon. H.B.M.C is probably right: if there isn't something that gw considers an "Icon" in the actual kit, they won't be able to take one, unfortunately.

But you're right in that what appears to be the unit Champ has one on his backpack.

So maybe they can get one.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Fresh from the Reddit Rumour Mill:

Ok_Entrepreneur3004
You can make a daemon force 25% of your force and it won't make you lose your legion rules

When asked if Death Guard and 1000 Sons were counted for this as well:

Any chaos faction

Also a pretty specific note to "wait for the Chaos Daemons book". The posts regarding Daemons seems to be implying heavily that Daemons are going to be a "Knights" style faction.

Ooh. So, Thousand Sons PLUS Daemons PLUS a Knight. Sounds... fun.

That's gonna be funky for sure !

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But you're right in that what appears to be the unit Champ has one on his backpack.

So maybe they can get one.

Of note they're among the units listed as getting icons in the leaks.

I think the main thing is that the icons are very loose with their interpretation of what god they fall under.

The Chosen kit has a relatively small icon, but it does have the 4 chaos gods' symbols to swap out. The Chaos Marines, by comparison, have 2 icons that are both generic enough to be anything.

The Possessed looks like the latter, a generic chaos star that you can count as any of the icons.

At the very least, that means that if the icon rules change in the future, you won't have to go chopping icons off to swap them out or anything.

So the HH Kratos tank got a 40k datasheet...
but not for chaos.

I'm hoping this isn't an abjectly stupid oversight or blatant favoritism, but means the HH vehicles were quietly added to the chaos codex.

Not holding my breath, though

Yeah, if the relevant HH vehicles are in the chaos book I'm ready to forgive, but I'm not going to "wait and see" on that, because I'm pretty sure thats not the way its gonna go.

I just noticed that they didn't give the Kratos the Armor of Contempt rule on the datasheet - does that mean it doesn't get it?

chaos0xomega wrote:

I just noticed that they didn't give the Kratos the Armor of Contempt rule on the datasheet - does that mean it doesn't get it?

I don't think so. No datasheet has the AoC rule- its a property of the 'universal matched play rules' granted by the Q2 balance slate.

Like everything else in those factions, it gets AoC in any circumstance that dataslate is valid. AoC could drop off the next dataslate, or be part of the rules temporarily as long as dataslates last. Much like necron CORE changes carried over from the first dataslate to this one (it isn't actually an errata to the necron codex or FAQ).

Only way that will change, apparently, is the next codex.

I'm ready for the salt. Bring it on guys, I'm here with you.

...Tell you what Gad. If you pass by Paris in the near future, ring me up. I'll buy you a drink.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, if the relevant HH vehicles are in the chaos book I'm ready to forgive, but I'm not going to "wait and see" on that, because I'm pretty sure thats not the way its gonna go.

I just noticed that they didn't give the Kratos the Armor of Contempt rule on the datasheet - does that mean it doesn't get it?

It's a big stretch but I'm hoping HH is the reason behind its delay now.

Voss wrote:
So the HH Kratos tank got a 40k datasheet...
but not for chaos.

I'm hoping this isn't an abjectly stupid oversight or blatant favoritism, but means the HH vehicles were quietly added to the chaos codex.

Not holding my breath, though

Sad news for Gadzilla...it has martial legacy... :(

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:
So the HH Kratos tank got a 40k datasheet...
but not for chaos.

I'm hoping this isn't an abjectly stupid oversight or blatant favoritism, but means the HH vehicles were quietly added to the chaos codex.

Not holding my breath, though

Sad news for Gadzilla...it has martial legacy... :(

The chaos version doesn't have it though, that's a win.... due to not existing.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, if the relevant HH vehicles are in the chaos book I'm ready to forgive, but I'm not going to "wait and see" on that, because I'm pretty sure thats not the way its gonna go.

I just noticed that they didn't give the Kratos the Armor of Contempt rule on the datasheet - does that mean it doesn't get it?

Does it have relevant keywords? If yes then it has it.

Chadzilla gets a free month of complaining about Night Lords (and us all nodding and agreeing) for his prediction.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
So with the confirmation Kratos can be taken in 40k, I wonder if they'll end up as HS or LOW.

I'm hoping for HS, mostly because I'm already planning on buying two anyway.

It's as big as a Spartan, so probably a LoW. And it'll have Martial Legacy.

Aaaannddd.........how much do you want to bet they give it to loyalists, but not Chaos?

The Power Level and Points are odd... 22 PL would normally translate to about 440 points, but it is only 335 points for all upgrades. Feels like they forgot to include the points for most of the weapon swaps.

EightFoldPath wrote:
Chadzilla gets a free month of complaining about Night Lords (and us all nodding and agreeing) for his prediction.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
So with the confirmation Kratos can be taken in 40k, I wonder if they'll end up as HS or LOW.

I'm hoping for HS, mostly because I'm already planning on buying two anyway.

It's as big as a Spartan, so probably a LoW. And it'll have Martial Legacy.

Aaaannddd.........how much do you want to bet they give it to loyalists, but not Chaos?

The Power Level and Points are odd... 22 PL would normally translate to about 440 points, but it is only 335 points for all upgrades. Feels like they forgot to include the points for most of the weapon swaps.

The main gun is probably free, but the 4 secondary weapons and autocannon all have their own prices.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

EightFoldPath wrote:
Chadzilla gets a free month of complaining about Night Lords (and us all nodding and agreeing) for his prediction.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
So with the confirmation Kratos can be taken in 40k, I wonder if they'll end up as HS or LOW.

I'm hoping for HS, mostly because I'm already planning on buying two anyway.

It's as big as a Spartan, so probably a LoW. And it'll have Martial Legacy.

Aaaannddd.........how much do you want to bet they give it to loyalists, but not Chaos?

The Power Level and Points are odd... 22 PL would normally translate to about 440 points, but it is only 335 points for all upgrades. Feels like they forgot to include the points for most of the weapon swaps.

The main gun is probably free, but the 4 secondary weapons and autocannon all have their own prices.

They do not. Everything is included in the base cost with the sole exceptions of the HK missile and if you pick a multimelta to bolt on the roof (but combi-flamer, combi-melta-, combi-plasma, combi-volkite, havoc launcher, heavy bolter, heavy flamer and twin bolter are all the same and free). For the sponsons and hull mounts, every paired option is free and interchangeable, even if some are flatly better (or worse).


Also @Eightfoldpath, its HS, not LOW, so technically his prediction is off. Though kudos for martial legacy and no chaos version ;(

While it not being available for Chaos sucks for you Traitors, I did note this and wonder if some sort of revision may be on the way for the Forge World units.

Martial Legacy: If your army is Battle-forged, then when this unit is included in a Detachment, increase that Detachment’s Command Cost by 1CP.

This means if you can refund the cost of the detachment, the Martial Legacy unit cost no CP.

I don't think there's any way to refund the cost of detachments? The "refund" often mentioned is actually written has "+X Command Points if your warlord is part of this detachment", where X is the usual cost of the detachment.

For a Patrol, it's +2, and patrols cost 2 CP. Making a Patrol cost 3 CP with Martial Legacy would not change that you gain +2CP if your warlord is in that Patrol detachment.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

EightFoldPath wrote:
Chadzilla gets a free month of complaining about Night Lords (and us all nodding and agreeing) for his prediction.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
So with the confirmation Kratos can be taken in 40k, I wonder if they'll end up as HS or LOW.

I'm hoping for HS, mostly because I'm already planning on buying two anyway.

It's as big as a Spartan, so probably a LoW. And it'll have Martial Legacy.

Aaaannddd.........how much do you want to bet they give it to loyalists, but not Chaos?

The Power Level and Points are odd... 22 PL would normally translate to about 440 points, but it is only 335 points for all upgrades. Feels like they forgot to include the points for most of the weapon swaps.

The main gun is probably free, but the 4 secondary weapons and autocannon all have their own prices.

Hmm. I see just base cost, multi melta and hunter killers. Where's rest of points?

tneva82 wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

EightFoldPath wrote:
Chadzilla gets a free month of complaining about Night Lords (and us all nodding and agreeing) for his prediction.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
So with the confirmation Kratos can be taken in 40k, I wonder if they'll end up as HS or LOW.

I'm hoping for HS, mostly because I'm already planning on buying two anyway.

It's as big as a Spartan, so probably a LoW. And it'll have Martial Legacy.

Aaaannddd.........how much do you want to bet they give it to loyalists, but not Chaos?

The Power Level and Points are odd... 22 PL would normally translate to about 440 points, but it is only 335 points for all upgrades. Feels like they forgot to include the points for most of the weapon swaps.

The main gun is probably free, but the 4 secondary weapons and autocannon all have their own prices.

Hmm. I see just base cost, multi melta and hunter killers. Where's rest of points?

I was thinking the older style codex where the weapons poi ts were fixed, and not in each unit entry. Probably will get updated datasheet.

 Rihgu wrote:
I don't think there's any way to refund the cost of detachments? The "refund" often mentioned is actually written has "+X Command Points if your warlord is part of this detachment", where X is the usual cost of the detachment.

For a Patrol, it's +2, and patrols cost 2 CP. Making a Patrol cost 3 CP with Martial Legacy would not change that you gain +2CP if your warlord is in that Patrol detachment.

Correct. I don't see the basis of justification for a "refund".

 Rihgu wrote:
I don't think there's any way to refund the cost of detachments? The "refund" often mentioned is actually written has "+X Command Points if your warlord is part of this detachment", where X is the usual cost of the detachment.

For a Patrol, it's +2, and patrols cost 2 CP. Making a Patrol cost 3 CP with Martial Legacy would not change that you gain +2CP if your warlord is in that Patrol detachment.

I hate when I misremember my rules based on the common phrasing

Voss wrote:
So the HH Kratos tank got a 40k datasheet...
but not for chaos.

Yeah, why would a side that can actually maintain it get access to it over one that in lore, has to scrounge the battlefield for a single discarded bolt shells or power armor gloves because your (relatively big and well off) warband has no means of producing stuff Imperial SM dump without a thought thanks to functioning supply lines. It's a mystery

If GW was actually true to its own lore, every single CSM vehicle heavier than Rhino should have martial legacy. No exceptions. Bigger, richer warbands like Red Corsairs and Black Legion already get extra CP to show their greater resources, there, problem solved. Small warbands can make do with daemon engines because that's exactly why they were developed in the first place. I miss the times where logistics and realistic limitations meant something for codex writers (not only CSM having limited access to modern gear, but also Tau being actually bad up close or Eldar wraith units having actual downsides, etc, etc).

I'm hoping this isn't an abjectly stupid oversight or blatant favoritism

Blatant favoritism is CSM being SM++ who not only have access to daemons, daemon weapons, daemon engines, and all the other gak like posessed and HQs no loyalist gets, but to also every single other SM unit. Funny how CSM players never complain about that part, eh?

If anything, I agree. There should be no favoritism, so zero anything that was developed post-Heresy for CSM, as well as no stuff that is expensive or complicated to maintain. None. CSM have their own gak to compensate, there is no reason for them to double dip. And certainly no comically stupid, fanfiction grade lists that even 30K legions at the height of their glory would struggle to field.

Voss wrote:
So the HH Kratos tank got a 40k datasheet...
but not for chaos.

I'm hoping this isn't an abjectly stupid oversight or blatant favoritism, but means the HH vehicles were quietly added to the chaos codex.

Not holding my breath, though

It's possible that the Kratos and other HH units could be in the CSM codex, but yeah, don't hold your breath. It's also possible that they could cave in to popular pressure and release a CSM datasheet, the same way that they did for the Vindicator Laser Destroyer, or how they added rules to allow Death Guard and Thousand Sons to use all of the various Chaos units in the Compendium. But even if they do, don't forget that they made sure that loyalists got it first.

I really wish I hadn't been right about this. My condolences to any Heretic Astartes players that wanted to use this unit in their armies

The most likely reason for not having chaos datasheet now is not that it will be in the codex, but there are changed/new rules/keywords/etc in the new codex that the datasheet should reference, so they don't want now to release a datasheet that would soon be outdated. Hopefully they release one once the codex has been released though.