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There's currently a thread in General Discussion that's supposed to be about whether new Kroot are better than Ork Boyz. That thread is also imploding into an Ork Boy wishlisting thread, so I thought I would make this thread to avoid that becoming clogged.

I don't think we should make Boyz broken or just super cheap, but they also shouldn't be a burden. I want them to be something you at least consider.

Currently Boyz serve two purposes: tagging things and punching things. This is done by Trukkboys and Goff Boyz respectively.


I propose the following:

Ork Boyz datasheet is split into two separate ones; Slugga Boyz and Shoota Boyz, both of which cost 8 points apiece.


Shoota Boyz nobs come with a Kustom Shoota, and all Shoota Boyz count Shoota weapons (anything with "Shoota" in the name or profile, such as kombi weapons) as assault weapons and gain +1 to their hit rolls with those weapons whilst in half range. (They may not have the -1 AP of choppas, but at least they can properly try drowning things in shots now like Guardsmen do and then contribute to the Assault Phase).


Mob Rule is changed that whilst a unit is within 6" of a friendly <Clan> mob unit that is at half strength or greater, or contains a Boss Nob, it can only ever lose one model to Combat Attrition whilst at half strength or greater. (The Nob is krumpin gits to assert authority. Also representative of the mob becoming more cowardly and less likely to comply with the Nob the lower in strength the mob gets).


Boyz mobs gain the following rule:
Unruly Gitz
If this unit starts the charge phase within 6" of another Boyz unit, Nobz unit or Warboss unit, add +1" to charge rolls made that turn. (Boyz eager to please the bosses and look good in front of the other Boyz. More "disciplined" mobs are busy trying to stick to the plan instead)


Trukkboys is changed to be a rule built into Trukks, that applies to Boyz, Nobz and Warboss units riding in them.


This is all purely off the cuff, so please feel free to tear my suggestions to pieces and to suggest your own changes.

Rather than specific rules about boyz I'd change armywide rules, that would benefit ork boyz. Specifically:

- Specialist mobs bonus is cumulative to klan bonus.

- When an ork unit fails morale test roll 2D6: if the result is lower or equal the squad's size then morale is passed.

- 1CP Stratagem: an infantry unit that doesn't have FLY double their movement characteristic for a turn.

These are all pretty sensible. Not sure about the Trukk thing though. If you went that direction I'd think disembark and no charge and a CP to charge with one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blackie wrote:
When an ork unit fails morale test roll 2D6: if the result is lower or equal the squad's size then morale is passed.

This effectively makes 30 mans immune to morale for quite a while. Maybe 3D6?

 Daedalus81 wrote:


These are all pretty sensible. Not sure about the Trukk thing though. If you went that direction I'd think disembark and no charge and a CP to charge with one.

Seems reasonable.

Y'all might think I'm nuts, but hear me out.

T6. T5 was a cool bump, but T6 makes them harder to chew at. Couple with a slight point reduction and you're good to go.

No I don't care if a Custodes players whines. Everyone in that army should've gotten a wound bump but here we are.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Y'all might think I'm nuts, but hear me out.

T6. T5 was a cool bump, but T6 makes them harder to chew at. Couple with a slight point reduction and you're good to go.

No I don't care if a Custodes players whines. Everyone in that army should've gotten a wound bump but here we are.

T6 is really hard to justify, especially within the context of other units in the army. Are you saying the baseline ork is as tough as a Trukk? Warbosses would have to be T7 assuming you inflate the stats across the board. It also doesn't address the core issues of boyz simply not filling in a role that other specialized units do, they just currently act as an expensive troop tax.

First update to Mob Rule:
Mob Rule
While this unit is within 6" of a friendly <CLAN> MOB unit that is not under half strength or the unit has more than 10 or more models, this unit is never considered to be under half strength.

Second is to revise points:

Base Cost 8 points

Choppa +1 point

Third is change to Breakin' Heads stratagem. Add "CP Cost of this stratagem is 0 if the selected unit that failed a Morale test is a Boyz unit.

 Daedalus81 wrote:


This effectively makes 30 mans immune to morale for quite a while. Maybe 3D6?

Nah. My point is that squads with 12 models or more should be fearless as according to GW standards 11 model is the threshold to consider the unit a "horde". 8-9 orks should be quite brave and get good chances to pass morale tests.

This morale rule is aimed at all orks, so 12-15 man squads of specialists should be able to resist morale if they suffer a few casualties. It's a massacre that would make them run away. At the moment there's no point in running large squads as there are no boosts for the squads thanks to their number, only downsides. Now being 10ish guys might be a quality to balance things out and give an alternative to MSU.

 Grimskul wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Y'all might think I'm nuts, but hear me out.

T6. T5 was a cool bump, but T6 makes them harder to chew at. Couple with a slight point reduction and you're good to go.

No I don't care if a Custodes players whines. Everyone in that army should've gotten a wound bump but here we are.

T6 is really hard to justify, especially within the context of other units in the army. Are you saying the baseline ork is as tough as a Trukk? Warbosses would have to be T7 assuming you inflate the stats across the board. It also doesn't address the core issues of boyz simply not filling in a role that other specialized units do, they just currently act as an expensive troop tax.

I'm fine with with Warbosses and Trukks being bumped up as well. The Toughness values aren't really being explored.

Toughness six doesn't resolve the issues though; Boyz are too expensive, too slow and morale absolutely decimates them.

Toughness six means that they're as tough as light tanks. Ghaz would end up the same toughness as a Stompa, which is ludicrous.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Toughness six doesn't resolve the issues though; Boyz are too expensive, too slow and morale absolutely decimates them.

Toughness six means that they're as tough as light tanks. Ghaz would end up the same toughness as a Stompa, which is ludicrous.

Bold to assume the Stompa is at proper toughness.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Toughness six doesn't resolve the issues though; Boyz are too expensive, too slow and morale absolutely decimates them.

Toughness six means that they're as tough as light tanks. Ghaz would end up the same toughness as a Stompa, which is ludicrous.

Bold to assume the Stompa is at proper toughness.

GW being afraid of making anything tougher than T8 isn't exclusive to Orks and is a wider issue. Regardless, Orks shouldn't be as tough as vehicles.

^ This. GW seem to be making T5 the maximum for heavy infantry. With light vehicles and smaller monstrous creatures being T6, with some exceptions being T5.

Trukkboyz being armywide would be extremely overpowered. I can already imagine the lists built around swarms of Trukkboyz and Trukkbosses. With these point reductions, six squads of Trukkboyz (assuming the Nob gets a melee weapon) would run ~ 900 points, and the level of turn one map control would be unstoppable. Keep in mind that Evil Sunz Trukk Boyz can reliably charge enemies from an incredible *Thirty Two Inches* away - And have a theoretical cap of 41" - on the turn you WAAAGH. ​(13" Trukk move, 3" deployment, 6" move, D6+1" advance, 2d6" charge. For 15 points you could give the trukk an extra +1 to move, but that's never worth it so I didn't include it.)

With boards that are 44" across, and a 10" deployment zone, Trukk Boyz with Evil Suns would have the ability to charge anything turn one. Spamming those en masse would lead to a lot of turn one victories where orks either wipe or at least get so much map control that they can't be countered, and it would not be fun to play against.

(Evil Sunz would also benefit from changing Shootas to counts-as-Assault, for that extra super damage increase.)

...

I think the proposed change to Mob Rule, 8pts instead of 9, and making Shootas count as assault weapons, would collectively be enough to make orks balanced. I'd also be fine turning Trukk Boyz into a stratagem, (1cp for Boyz; 2cp for Nobz,) so that it didn't steal Klan culture and could be more flexible.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Shoota Boyz nobs come with a Kustom Shoota, and all Shoota Boyz count Shoota weapons (anything with "Shoota" in the name or profile, such as kombi weapons) as assault weapons and gain +1 to their hit rolls with those weapons whilst in half range. (They may not have the -1 AP of choppas, but at least they can properly try drowning things in shots now like Guardsmen do and then contribute to the Assault Phase).

I'm not sure about the assault weapon part - I like the +1 to hit idea but that still doesn't make them good at shooting at half range, especially not when riding transports.
If you already split them into a separate datasheet, they should just get BS4+ with free big shoota and rokkit at +5 in addition to your kustom shoota suggestion. At half range you could add something like a "wall of lead" rule to make them ignore any modifiers to portrait the lack of space to dodge to.

Mob Rule is changed that whilst a unit is within 6" of a friendly <Clan> mob unit that is at half strength or greater, or contains a Boss Nob, it can only ever lose one model to Combat Attrition whilst at half strength or greater. (The Nob is krumpin gits to assert authority. Also representative of the mob becoming more cowardly and less likely to comply with the Nob the lower in strength the mob gets).

I like that. You can still lose up to 2 models, so someone playing into that aspect is rewarded, but you don't bleed 4 or 5 models every time you are shot at.

Boyz mobs gain the following rule:
Unruly Gitz
If this unit starts the charge phase within 6" of another Boyz unit, Nobz unit or Warboss unit, add +1" to charge rolls made that turn. (Boyz eager to please the bosses and look good in front of the other Boyz. More "disciplined" mobs are busy trying to stick to the plan instead)

Longer and more reliable charges essentially serve as an enabler to deep strikes. While I like the idea, it probably won't pan out the way you want.
What we are trying to fix is boyz' inability to get across the board without enabling to make guaranteed T1 charges.

I'd rather do something like making advance rolls more reliable, it feels clunky, but I envision something like:
"When you roll to advance for any non-gretchin ORK INFANTRY unit, for every other ORK unit that is closer to the closest enemy unit than the advancing unit, you can roll an addition d6 and pick the highest result."
Rather than go off discipline, you have orks compete to get into the enemy line faster. Nobz and Warbosses moving first would make it easier for boyz to keep up with them, keeping the spirit of your idea.

Trukkboys is changed to be a rule built into Trukks, that applies to Boyz, Nobz and Warboss units riding in them.

This is all purely off the cuff, so please feel free to tear my suggestions to pieces and to suggest your own changes.

Eh. I'd rather have it as an upgrade on the units themselves. +1 for boyz (bringing them back to 9), +2 for nobz and MANz and +10 for a warboss and then just allow them to disembark and charge from any transport. Battlewagons and nauts need love, too

honestly i would say one fix might be bringing back the old boos pole rule. if you fail a leadership test instead of losing any models the nob knocks heads about losing D3 ork boyz and then they pass.

I would also love to see an upgrade liek the old ardboyz to give a unit a 4+ armor save for a points increase. it might also be that I have a set of 30 boyz modded with scrap to be my ard boyz and make them useful again

I like the 2d6 test against mob size thing, basically 3rd Ed rules. Put boyz down to 8 with that, and a 5+ kff and choppa boyz are automatically good.
For shoota boyz, just bump shootas to assault 3 s5 18” range and they’re pretty good. Also sort of a callback to 3rd when shootas were stronger than a boy.
For the price of a current trukk, trukk boyz on everything is fine lmao. Especially with how crazy de transports are.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I’d maybe have it be that you can basically pick from like three things, a footsloggin buff for roll 2d6 for advancing, trukkboyz (that works on all transports) or something to add +2 to charging from deep strike.
Additionally, completely port weirdboyz back to how they were in 8th.

 Afrodactyl wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:
Toughness six doesn't resolve the issues though; Boyz are too expensive, too slow and morale absolutely decimates them.

Toughness six means that they're as tough as light tanks. Ghaz would end up the same toughness as a Stompa, which is ludicrous.

Bold to assume the Stompa is at proper toughness.

GW being afraid of making anything tougher than T8 isn't exclusive to Orks and is a wider issue. Regardless, Orks shouldn't be as tough as vehicles.

They're still at a 6+ regardless. This simply makes things like Lasguns and S5 harder to kill them.

You could arguably make Orks W2 and Nobz just having the T5 represents them being tougher.

I prefer t5 boyz to 2w tbh. I’d make nobz actually more durable by throwin a feel no pain on em, or call back to the old days where you could split wounds among them.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I prefer t5 boyz to 2w tbh. I’d make nobz actually more durable by throwin a feel no pain on em, or call back to the old days where you could split wounds among them.

I'd rather a 5+ save over 2 wounds. 2 wounds on 120+ models is kinda crazy.

To the people above proposing massive buffs to Ork Boy durability, I'd like to post a question:

In a vacuum, (that is, not relative to any existing statlines,) what are the desired traits of Ork Boyz? How do you want them to 'feel' on the board?

Because I don't really want my boyz to be tarpits with a focus on survivability. This speaks somewhat to the design of 9th as a whole, which is very DPS focused and requires ridiculously high durability to compensate for the ridiculously high DPS, but my issue with Boyz right now isn't that they die too quickly - It's that they die quickly and struggle to *do* anything.

With the changes from our last codex, cost went up but DPS went down - No Dakka Dakka Dakka, charging is harder, Shootas aren't assault, no bonus to attacks for large mobs. An extra point of AP and an extra shot on the shootas mitigates this some, but the overall result is that we're just not very deadly per point anymore.

If we're going to get really radical in order to justify the 9ppm cost, I'd rather see boys get an extra attack, or AP-1 on shootas, or *something* to make them feel as properly choppy as the fluff suggests.

I want boyz to do damage again.

Right now boyz are:

1. Fragile
2. Susceptible to morale losses
3. Slow
4. Have low damage output
5. Lacking in synergy (command phase buffs, strats, etc).

The only thing boyz have going for them are obsec and the infantry keyword.

With the way GW does changes currently, the only real hope is a points decrease. Personally I'd like to see an army of renown or Goff supplement that buffs up hordes of boyz.

Waaaghpower wrote:
To the people above proposing massive buffs to Ork Boy durability, I'd like to post a question:

In a vacuum, (that is, not relative to any existing statlines,) what are the desired traits of Ork Boyz? How do you want them to 'feel' on the board?

Because I don't really want my boyz to be tarpits with a focus on survivability. This speaks somewhat to the design of 9th as a whole, which is very DPS focused and requires ridiculously high durability to compensate for the ridiculously high DPS, but my issue with Boyz right now isn't that they die too quickly - It's that they die quickly and struggle to *do* anything.

With the changes from our last codex, cost went up but DPS went down - No Dakka Dakka Dakka, charging is harder, Shootas aren't assault, no bonus to attacks for large mobs. An extra point of AP and an extra shot on the shootas mitigates this some, but the overall result is that we're just not very deadly per point anymore.

If we're going to get really radical in order to justify the 9ppm cost, I'd rather see boys get an extra attack, or AP-1 on shootas, or *something* to make them feel as properly choppy as the fluff suggests.

That's a very good question to ask.

Personally I feel like boyz should be able to crush any enemy infantry as long as they either outnumber them (marines, aspect warriors, tyranid warriors) or when they outclass them (tau, guardsmen, gaunts).

With "crush" I mean that anyone who is not a combat expert should be afraid of getting charged by choppa boyz and be in serious risk of taking significant losses when they do.
Shoota boyz should be a bane to lightly armored infantry, a nuisance to armored infantry and mostly useless agains armor.
Killteam 2.0 nails the difference pretty well, choppa boyz kill pretty much anything in combat, while shoota boyz need to combine shooting and charging for the same effect.

The last time orks didn't have a garbage codex before 9th was in 5th, at that time a unit of 20 boyz charging a squad of marines or necron warriors meant that these would take heavy casualties and most likely be ground up over the next two turns of combat. Such a unit charging into guardsmen, eldar guardians or scouts meant their target was gone afterwards.

Just having 20 boyz sit in a battlewagon or trukk and shoot out of it was a valid tactic and actually did kill something.

In addition, ork mobs could just walk across the board and expect to have enough models left to kill the enemy. Strong shooting armies like guard or tau would decimate the mobs down to just a few models, but those models were enough to murder the combat inept infantry of those armies.

Boyz didn't scale with the damage and durability increase across the game. This makes them unable to cross the board in sufficient numbers, and even when they do, they aren't strong enough to fight against today's rank and file infantry like intercessors, immortals or sisters.

Summary, what should boyz be able to do?
Choppa boyz
- Efficient as one foot-slogging mob, one battlewagon with 20 passengers or two trukks with 10-12 each
- Kill light infantry easily, they should absolutely crush guardsmen and similar units. And with crush I mean, wipe the floor with a full squad.
- Fight on equal footing against medium infantry like marines. If you bring more boyz than they have marines, you beat them, otherwise they beat you.
- Bounce off heavy infantry like terminators, custodes or MANz.
- Bounce off armor. The only way to seriously hurt armor should be the nob's weapons and the tankbusta bomb.
The last two pretty much already work as they should, the first two don't.

Shoota boyz
- Outfight light infantry, but not necessary completely crush them.
- Shooting should be efficient at killing light infantry
- should be inefficient at killing medium infantry, but still be able to kill some. Shooting plus fighting should be comparable to choppa boyz fighting.
- should bounce off heavy armor and infantry unless you brought a rokkit

To me boyz should be simply a threat. They should be a fast moving, horde of bodies that will not stop until most of thier clan mates are blasted away at which point its time to go find new clanmates to run with. They should be something the opponent has to commit lots of fire into to drop instead of current kill 6 then watch as another 6 run away. if they hit enemy lines they should be piling into the fight and actually get lots of strikes instead of the current take lots of losses, 3 orks might reach combat in engagement range before swinging on guardsman who fall back and shoot them to finish them off.

I still am not sure why GW decided they should have a low movement beyond some big brain person on the design team deciding that initiative should be gone and instead of being forgotten it should be folded into affecting the units movement speed. Orks are not particularly smart or quick thinking, but they are not slow to get into the fight.

Then this edition codex somebody decided it would be a good idea to play with durability profiles (I support this as 2 wound marines and T5 orks in a way make sense for what they should be fitting the lore, now orks should also probably have an innate 6+++ and no armor save if not a ard boy but alas). The only issue with these changes seems to be the lack of playtesting by anybody who actually likes or understands orks. The lack of ways to deal with morale, slow speed, and ability of other units to calmly walk away from combat while the orks i guess sip tea and watch just makes em useless.

One interesting mechanic GW could give orks would be some kind of no retreat rule where in combat they cannot fall back from combat but they also will not allow enemy infantry to fall back from combat

I find with the added -1 AP for choppas that choppa Boyz hit hard enough against their intended opponents, their main problem is surviving long enough to get to the fight. 10 or 20 Ork Boyz is not an insignificant amount of points, and they require very little shooting from an opponent (even when in cover), that their numbers are so greatly reduced that they loose any kind of offensive ability.
We need the 5++ KFF back for infantry. The Painboy should be 5+++ instead of 6+++. We need better Mob rules for dealing with Morale issues. We need the bosspole back, or breakin' 'eads built in any kind of Nob unit leader.

Shoota boyz require more attention. Their shooting is pitiful, the range is short, and their mobility on the board is below average. It is barely worth rolling the dice against even remotely armoured opponents or targets in cover, and currently they cannot even advance and shoot to get into the 9" range for shootas to be reasonable.
They need to be able to advance and shoot, and they should perhaps also get +1 to hit if within 9".
With these changes, Boyz would make more sense to play, without them being overpowered in the slightest.
I don't think we should bring back strats such as Green Tide, as getting more models for almost free is rather poor game design.

Honestly, I think fixing Boyz is fairly simple.

- Boyz: Dropped to 8 points. Shoota range increased to 24 inch.
- Beast Snagga Boyz: Dropped to 10 points.
- Stormboyz: Dropped to 10 points.

Jarms48 wrote:
Honestly, I think fixing Boyz is fairly simple.

- Boyz: Dropped to 8 points. Shoota range increased to 24 inch.
- Beast Snagga Boyz: Dropped to 10 points.
- Stormboyz: Dropped to 10 points.

That wouldn't fix anything, people wouldn't field more boyz with a 1ppm price drop assuming nothing else changes. They need a purpose in the army, a role, and at the moment they only have one: being trukk boyz. And people already run them as trukk boyz.

For larger amounts of boyz the horde needs to gain a purpose. Being 80-100 points cheaper simply wouldn't do it. Being 240-300 would, but then they'd be too cheap, and good only because they'd be super cheap wounds to spam.

9ppm ork boyz can definitely work, they just need to be more resilient. The easiest fix is to make them somehow fearless (for example as long they are a large squad) so they don't double their casualties to morale anymore.

Eager for a Scrap (1/2 CP): use this stratagem in your opponent's Movement phase, when an opposing unit that is within 1" of a BOYZ unit in your army makes a Fall Back movement. That BOYZ unit may immediately consolidate up to 5", though it must end its move closer to the nearest enemy unit.

If there are 20 or more BOYZ models in the unit, this stratagem costs 2CP. Otherwise it costs 1CP.

Non-ork player coming into the conversation late, so I'm sure you're all very invested in my opinion. ;D

 Blackie wrote:

Jarms48 wrote:
Honestly, I think fixing Boyz is fairly simple.

- Boyz: Dropped to 8 points. Shoota range increased to 24 inch.
- Beast Snagga Boyz: Dropped to 10 points.
- Stormboyz: Dropped to 10 points.

That wouldn't fix anything, people wouldn't field more boyz with a 1ppm price drop assuming nothing else changes. They need a purpose in the army, a role, and at the moment they only have one: being trukk boyz. And people already run them as trukk boyz.

For larger amounts of boyz the horde needs to gain a purpose. Being 80-100 points cheaper simply wouldn't do it. Being 240-300 would, but then they'd be too cheap, and good only because they'd be super cheap wounds to spam.

9ppm ork boyz can definitely work, they just need to be more resilient. The easiest fix is to make them somehow fearless (for example as long they are a large squad) so they don't double their casualties to morale anymore.

I don't know. Is the issue that ork boyz don't hit hard enough, or that they don't hit hard enough for their cost? Based on Jidmah and Waaaghpowers' conversation above, it kind of seems like some people don't necessarily want a big offense boost for boyz but also don't want them to be particularly tanky. A modest price decrease would make their offense slightly better for the cost without pushing an ork boy further into "elite" territory. Some probably terrible ideas:

A.) Lower normal boyz' Toughness back to 4 and lower their cost by about 2 points? Let non-boyz keep their extra Toughness. Fluff excuse is that, narratively, boyz serve the role of being the faceless horde of mooks who don't get speaking lines and die in droves. Their lower toughness is the result of plot armor. Mechanically, you're making them more susceptible to S4 and S5 weapons (which tend to have enough shots to be efficient against T4 models with bad saves), and you're making them more killy for their cost.

B.) What if boyz could screen units behind them in some fashion? Sort of like a grot shield. For instance, something like this:

Green Within Green
Units with this rule may not be targeted by ranged attacks while within 3" of a boyz unit containing at least as many models as this unit.

^ Give that to all your special ork infantry like burna boyz, storm boyz, tank bustas, etc. Now your boyz are forcing the enemy to waste shots on them instead of your heavy hitters. If we assume your more elite orks are the stars of the show and the normal boyz (though not toothless) are mostly there to give them protection, then this seems like a decent way to go.

C.) You could turn boyz into a sort of support unit for non-boyz units. Give orks a strat where you can target an enemy unit within 18" of a boyz squad and one other ork infantry unit. Shoot with the boyz (no splitting fire), and then shoot with the second unit (no splitting fire). The second unit ignores light and dense cover against the target unit. Fluff being that the boyz have pinned them in place setting them up for the second unit.

Or, less complicated, let squad leaders for and characters gain bonus attacks while they're within 6" of at least 10 ork models (other than gretchin). And then ork boyz just happen to be the cheapest unit that satisfy that condition and also happen to live longer than higher priority targets like tank bustas. Plenty of other directions to go here. The point of C is that you make players want to field boyz not because the boyz themselves are especially impressive, but because they make your non-boyz better.

All the suggestions above are aimed at making boyz more desirable without actually making them tougher or more lethal. (At least individually.)

Wyldhunt wrote:
Non-ork player coming into the conversation late, so I'm sure you're all very invested in my opinion. ;D
I don't know. Is the issue that ork boyz don't hit hard enough, or that they don't hit hard enough for their cost? Based on Jidmah and Waaaghpowers' conversation above, it kind of seems like some people don't necessarily want a big offense boost for boyz but also don't want them to be particularly tanky. A modest price decrease would make their offense slightly better for the cost without pushing an ork boy further into "elite" territory. Some probably terrible ideas:

A.) Lower normal boyz' Toughness back to 4 and lower their cost by about 2 points? Let non-boyz keep their extra Toughness. Fluff excuse is that, narratively, boyz serve the role of being the faceless horde of mooks who don't get speaking lines and die in droves. Their lower toughness is the result of plot armor. Mechanically, you're making them more susceptible to S4 and S5 weapons (which tend to have enough shots to be efficient against T4 models with bad saves), and you're making them more killy for their cost.

So... 8th edition Ork Boyz, then?
I mean, by comparison, we'd have an extra point of AP on our Choppas, worse Mob Rule, worse charges, fewer attacks in hordes, worse Shootas, worse *shooting* (No 'Dakka Dakka Dakka' and no Tankbusta Bombs,) and fewer good stratagems.

It gets a little fuzzy when we start comparing outside buffs, (Waaagh! is better, but KFFs are worse, Weirdboyz aren't as devastatingly good around hordes but still benefit some, etc.,) but at the end of the day, if we accept that Ork Boyz were reasonably balanced in 8th edition, (I'd argue they were, barring a couple stratagems that could be cheesy,) this change would still leave us with a severely nerfed unit, we'd still have no reason to run anything other than MSU, and we'd still have no reason to take Shootas over Choppas.

Another thing of note is comparisons between Ork Boyz and our specialist boy variants, Stormboyz and Kommandoes. Other than costing slightly more, (2ppm and 1ppm, respectively,) there's always been a variety of tradeoffs when deciding which to bring: Stormboyz are faster, Kommandoes are sneakier, but Boyz can be taken in simply massive mobs and get Objective Secured. Obj Sec doesn't even matter for Deathskullz, and since there's major drawbacks and no real benefits to running hordes of boyz, that benefit doesn't apply either. As such, the balance is skewed far more in favor of Stormboyz and Kommandoes.

Outside of squatting on objectives, there are very few cases I can think of where it'd be better to have 33 Ork Boyz instead of 30 Kommandoes in 9th edition, whereas in every other edition of 40k I can imagine plenty of circumstances where the former is preferable to the latter. (The same applies to 27 Stormboyz, and of course, if you're playing Deathskullz, there are *no* cases where the boyz outperform the kommandoes.)

(Also, making Boyz cost 7pts means there's even fewer reasons to run Grots now, which is its own can of worms - Grots are flatly terrible, one of the worst units in the entire game at the moment, though fixing them should be its own thread.)