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The gold standard for character customization to me is the Exalted Sorcerers kit. I know it's more expensive than a blister if you're just looking for one character, but $20/character is cheaper than they've sold character blisters for since before they started doing plastic characters, and they've got a huge variety of options up to and including an optional mount (you can put one of them on a Disc, or leave all three on foot, and the Disc-rider can be any of the three bodies). Just imagine how many options they could cram in if they said "right, we're doing a two-sprue Space Marine command kit, one Captain, one Librarian, one Chaplain, mix-and-match options as you like." (Though given their release priorities these days it'd probably be "Command kit: one Captain and two Lieutenants, support kit: one Chaplain, one Librarian, one Techmarine, and then do them all over again for Gravis and Phobos armor, just to put off having to release non-Primaris models further.")
As one who has been carting a bits box from continent to continent, with a memory for most every plasma pistol and now with magnets! I am a fan of customisability and at the same time a proud owner of a metal-capable hobby saw, not beyond hacking a mini to near death only to bring it back as something completely original, half plastic, half foldable epoxy or simple putty embalmed with super glue, half metal with some dust and with a few dog hairs mashed in there. As with previous posters, IFF single pose models were priced reasonably - and before some GW white knight jumps in to defend 30bucks for a single 28mm character model, this is NOT reasonable regardless of inflation and whatever else, as most people have not seen similar increases in wages but this is beside the point - then I would be more onboard hacking these dudes into the pieces that I want but for 30bucks, i would rather see the options baked in so to speak.
Note that I have not voted, and further that i do not buy the argument that it is not feasible for GW to employ mail order trolls to farm bits. trolls disappeared when a lot of other shady bs descended like a dark cloud from the north, or should i say south america, on GWHQ.
Oh and as for simple model weapon swaps, e.g. force sword v mace v chainsword v fist v... GW should be ashamed of itself, frankly, and I have zero empathy for the beast when 3d prints finally lops its head off. The selling point of the universe was that it was a clearinghouse for sci-fantasy tropes from every corner. GW is ceding ground here and soon enough another group with bigger nutz will be able to claim this role. Not to mention that the fanbase with such a background is also dwindling, as fewer young people read (Red Nails, anyone?). So, natch that the system is now basically a card game with plastic markers called models.
In the end, my hopes for humanity at large are emboldened with the results of this poll, and I am interested to see where things go.
Next up, should I order the Necromunda terrain set or not...? Thought about doing a poll for that one but might just wait for odd comments to this effect instead.
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AnomanderRake wrote: The gold standard for character customization to me is the Exalted Sorcerers kit. I know it's more expensive than a blister if you're just looking for one character, but $20/character is cheaper than they've sold character blisters for since before they started doing plastic characters, and they've got a huge variety of options up to and including an optional mount (you can put one of them on a Disc, or leave all three on foot, and the Disc-rider can be any of the three bodies). Just imagine how many options they could cram in if they said "right, we're doing a two-sprue Space Marine command kit, one Captain, one Librarian, one Chaplain, mix-and-match options as you like." (Though given their release priorities these days it'd probably be "Command kit: one Captain and two Lieutenants, support kit: one Chaplain, one Librarian, one Techmarine, and then do them all over again for Gravis and Phobos armor, just to put off having to release non-Primaris models further.")
Exactly mo, exalted. Though I am NOT the market for a restartes anything, ever, at all, IFF less than 55AUD (WTF???) then good on them for allowing people to customise their pricier than literal gold standard kits.
Edit, spoliërend my own post cuz too hot airy.
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2022/02/13 21:31:31
Gert, I spoilered my post above … I think that you are right to call me out on some negativity. I type for a living and type too much too quickly… not necessary.
But srsly Gert, I really like monopose metal models. Been itching for the nightlords boss and an inquisitor I don’t have for a while now, plus those Cultists for Blackstone Fortress have been in my Wayland cart along with this new Munda terrain… I am itching to pull the trigger on those.
So I do not hate GW… I wish the hobby were more accessible, as I remember what it was like to piece together an army when I was younger and even now 200euros for a box of toys is a bit of a bite from the budget…
But value, hobby value, I mean 55dollars for a single monopose mini… does anyone think that this is reasonable?
Blackie wrote: Choosing powers and possibly pay for the master psyker upgrade is how you customize them.
So no Force Sword/Axe/Rod?
Couldn't care less. Melee weapon, that's it. I've never cared about different profiles for marine power/force swords, axes, rods, maces and always wanted a single profile for all those options.
Weirdboy with no option in any codex has always worked perfectly with my orks.
For me, building and fielding my dudes with their special gear was a big part of the attraction to the hobby from the beginning.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/02/13 21:33:22
jeff white wrote: So I do not hate GW… I wish the hobby were more accessible, as I remember what it was like to piece together an army when I was younger and even now 200euros for a box of toys is a bit of a bite from the budget…
But value, hobby value, I mean 55dollars for a single monopose mini… does anyone think that this is reasonable?
Everyone wants the hobby to be more accessible but pretending that individual 3d printing will kill off GW is laughable. As for prices, yeah they suck but which boxes and characters are you buying here chief? The only characters that are in the $55 US range are things like Guilliman, Abbadon, larger models, and Characters with retinues. The prices are higher than other companies but your arguments lose any legitimacy when you just make up numbers.
For me, building and fielding my dudes with their special gear was a big part of the attraction to the hobby from the beginning.
Yes, absolutely. As long as giving different gear has some real purpose. Choosing between +1S, -1AP or +1D on a melee weapon doesn't give any purpose to the model's customization. Psyker guy has to cast powers, that's his role. I don't really care if he can choose between multiple slightly different blades or maybe a more powerful pistol than his standard one. Same for a medic guy, etc...
A captain should be open to multiple loadouts instead as it's a much more versatile character by definition. Same for a Lt or any other second in command. For example I think it's a shame that the haemonculus, the coven captain, can't be customized anymore.
Blackie wrote: Couldn't care less. Melee weapon, that's it. I've never cared about different profiles for marine power/force swords, axes, rods, maces and always wanted a single profile for all those options.
Blackie wrote: Couldn't care less. Melee weapon, that's it. I've never cared about different profiles for marine power/force swords, axes, rods, maces and always wanted a single profile for all those options.
So not even the modelling option?
Well no, I'd love that. Multiple bitz to choose from are awesome if you want more than one copy of the same guy in order to avoid perfect duplicates which are boring to paint and to collect. I converted my 2nd weirdboyz for that reason, I didn't want two identical monopose models.
I'd just consider the modelling option the same as swapping heads though, like choosing between the helmet or a bare head.
Blackie wrote: Couldn't care less. Melee weapon, that's it. I've never cared about different profiles for marine power/force swords, axes, rods, maces and always wanted a single profile for all those options.
So not even the modelling option?
There are a bunch of options and problems with all of them.
If you just have a generic “force weapon” with one stat line you irritate all the people who want to make choices and have them have meaning. It simplifies/smooths/dumbs down the game and you loose flavor and detail. An axe should hit different than a staff. Advantage is that people can model what they want and not worry about rules changes and meta shifts turning their model into a sup par one with the trap choice.
You have different rules, but lock some in depending on the model. Phobos librarians always have force swords, but firstborn have a range of options. This is the no model, no rules thing that irritates many of us. Why can’t my guy have an axe? This bugs a lot of people as it stifles kitbashing and rubs against the fluff in bad ways. In theory it makes it less confusing for new players, as they don’t need try to figure out what the best/trap options are. Also potentially easier to balance the game as there are less moving parts.
You have different rules, and let people build what they want. There are still limited models, so you might have to hunt around/kitbash/print/3rd party the right bits. This is where the game was for most of its life, and a lot of legacy units still work this way. Pros are unlimited freedom. Cons can be finding the right parts. Not everyone can kitbash at the same level. 3rd party is not something GW likes. “Just include all the options in the kit” is unfeasible unless you want to watch the prices skyrocket on some things as they double the number of frames in the box. People would also end up with giant piles of unneeded parts in their bits boxes. Also some poses work better with some weapons than others. Not a huge deal for the librarian example, but things like captains and tac/dev squads have historically had tons of choice. And with all the options you can end up with broken combos that are harder to balance around.
Special Characters as separate kits don’t bother me.
But I don’t see the sense from any angle on doing multiple plastic kits for different loadouts for the same Codex Entry.
For instance, Primaris Lieutenants. Restrict their options within the Codex all you want (but preferably don’t!), but I just do not understand them all having separate plastic kits. That’s more expensive when it comes to tooling, and just seems daft.
As AnomanderRake said, do something like the Exalted Sorcerers kit, especially if like Lieutenants they’re likely to be models picked more than once in a given army list. It also necessitates a larger sprue, but one the bodies are out the way, loads of space for weapon options and that.
The upcoming Eldar kits have given some hope we’re emerging from those particular woods. But to be pessimistic (twice in one day, which is most unlike me) we can’t necessarily rule out right now that these are older things they’ve been sitting on for a while. And whilst I have nothing to back that up, we won’t know until eyes are on sprues and we can see the stamped date.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
But I don’t see the sense from any angle on doing multiple plastic kits for different loadouts for the same Codex Entry.
For instance, Primaris Lieutenants. Restrict their options within the Codex all you want (but preferably don’t!), but I just do not understand them all having separate plastic kits. That’s more expensive when it comes to tooling, and just seems daft.
As AnomanderRake said, do something like the Exalted Sorcerers kit, especially if like Lieutenants they’re likely to be models picked more than once in a given army list. It also necessitates a larger sprue, but one the bodies are out the way, loads of space for weapon options and that.
The upcoming Eldar kits have given some hope we’re emerging from those particular woods. But to be pessimistic (twice in one day, which is most unlike me) we can’t necessarily rule out right now that these are older things they’ve been sitting on for a while. And whilst I have nothing to back that up, we won’t know until eyes are on sprues and we can see the stamped date.
Well even special characters should be like Calgar/Guilliman etc a couple different cosmetic options like helmet or bare headed etc.
I wouldn't mind an upgrade kit/sprue that has all the melee weapons, and the pistols etc for Captains/Lieutenants/Sergeants.
Gert wrote: Anyone ever tell you to go into stand up Sim?
Well if you only judge a models worth by if you "need" it then you don't really "need" any model. You could play the game with card board standees and some art.
Gert wrote: Anyone ever tell you to go into stand up Sim?
Well if you only judge a models worth by if you "need" it then you don't really "need" any model. You could play the game with card board standees and some art.
But I don’t see the sense from any angle on doing multiple plastic kits for different loadouts for the same Codex Entry.
For instance, Primaris Lieutenants. Restrict their options within the Codex all you want (but preferably don’t!), but I just do not understand them all having separate plastic kits. That’s more expensive when it comes to tooling, and just seems daft.
As AnomanderRake said, do something like the Exalted Sorcerers kit, especially if like Lieutenants they’re likely to be models picked more than once in a given army list. It also necessitates a larger sprue, but one the bodies are out the way, loads of space for weapon options and that.
The upcoming Eldar kits have given some hope we’re emerging from those particular woods. But to be pessimistic (twice in one day, which is most unlike me) we can’t necessarily rule out right now that these are older things they’ve been sitting on for a while. And whilst I have nothing to back that up, we won’t know until eyes are on sprues and we can see the stamped date.
Unfortunately GW is all over the place when it comes to character models. Adepta Sororitas got both the many-optioned Canoness character (US$35 for two small frames) and the minimal-optioned Palatine (US$35 for two small frame). Imagine what they could have done with the Palatine with a second frame of options! At least the minimal options given to the Primaris Ancient is because two different banners takes up all the frame space.
jeff white wrote: So I do not hate GW… I wish the hobby were more accessible, as I remember what it was like to piece together an army when I was younger and even now 200euros for a box of toys is a bit of a bite from the budget…
But value, hobby value, I mean 55dollars for a single monopose mini… does anyone think that this is reasonable?
Everyone wants the hobby to be more accessible but pretending that individual 3d printing will kill off GW is laughable. As for prices, yeah they suck but which boxes and characters are you buying here chief? The only characters that are in the $55 US range are things like Guilliman, Abbadon, larger models, and Characters with retinues. The prices are higher than other companies but your arguments lose any legitimacy when you just make up numbers.
That's $55 AUS which is about $39.15 US. You could tell this by a couple things - for example the URL for Games Workshop Australia.
3D Printing alone won't kill off GW, GW closing their brick and mortar with the attached playspace will do it just as much as 3D Printing. I print bits, but not full models. Without a place to play they'll lose customers - not everyone, especially the teenagers etc will have a place in the garage or bonus room to setup a table - and if you're making your own place to play the temptation to 3D print your own model for your own games will go up.
When I was able to frequent the local GW before the 'demic, play there was... limited. The tables were often full, and if not, one may have half a table. Terrain and so on were top notch, as the manager was a great dude who took care to put up nicely painted stuff, lots of it. I did what i could to support that store, bought a lot of paints and so on, some kits when I could have gotten all of these much cheaper online. It was a sort of magnet for local hobbyists, but iirc most just came through, bought a kit or more likely a pot of paint or two, and left to do their things at home or wherever. I guess nothing new here, everyone already understands the move in GW to single-manned shops with limited playspace, but I guess that those shops do is bring people together and this must be doing a lot of the work of keeping interest up. Employing stellar hobbyists like the guy who ran that shop (it was in Enschede, Netherlands, shout out to JP!) must make a difference for them, too. That said, when in university, I spent most of my time in the backroom of a pretty big hobby comics shop - table space was huge, 4x8 tables and a big line of them, games were various, and the place was really popular. During grad school, similar, though the tables had shrunk to 6x4 by then. Anyways, i envy people who have a place like these nearby, because as awesome as JP was, gameplay was less so in the GW shop.
But I don’t see the sense from any angle on doing multiple plastic kits for different loadouts for the same Codex Entry.
For instance, Primaris Lieutenants. Restrict their options within the Codex all you want (but preferably don’t!), but I just do not understand them all having separate plastic kits. That’s more expensive when it comes to tooling, and just seems daft.
As AnomanderRake said, do something like the Exalted Sorcerers kit, especially if like Lieutenants they’re likely to be models picked more than once in a given army list. It also necessitates a larger sprue, but one the bodies are out the way, loads of space for weapon options and that.
The upcoming Eldar kits have given some hope we’re emerging from those particular woods. But to be pessimistic (twice in one day, which is most unlike me) we can’t necessarily rule out right now that these are older things they’ve been sitting on for a while. And whilst I have nothing to back that up, we won’t know until eyes are on sprues and we can see the stamped date.
Unfortunately GW is all over the place when it comes to character models. Adepta Sororitas got both the many-optioned Canoness character (US$35 for two small frames) and the minimal-optioned Palatine (US$35 for two small frame). Imagine what they could have done with the Palatine with a second frame of options! At least the minimal options given to the Primaris Ancient is because two different banners takes up all the frame space.
Out of curiosity does the new Sisters line habe interchangeable parts with every other plastic model in the line like older Space Marines or Imperial Guard plastics?
But I don’t see the sense from any angle on doing multiple plastic kits for different loadouts for the same Codex Entry.
For instance, Primaris Lieutenants. Restrict their options within the Codex all you want (but preferably don’t!), but I just do not understand them all having separate plastic kits. That’s more expensive when it comes to tooling, and just seems daft.
As AnomanderRake said, do something like the Exalted Sorcerers kit, especially if like Lieutenants they’re likely to be models picked more than once in a given army list. It also necessitates a larger sprue, but one the bodies are out the way, loads of space for weapon options and that.
The upcoming Eldar kits have given some hope we’re emerging from those particular woods. But to be pessimistic (twice in one day, which is most unlike me) we can’t necessarily rule out right now that these are older things they’ve been sitting on for a while. And whilst I have nothing to back that up, we won’t know until eyes are on sprues and we can see the stamped date.
Unfortunately GW is all over the place when it comes to character models. Adepta Sororitas got both the many-optioned Canoness character (US$35 for two small frames) and the minimal-optioned Palatine (US$35 for two small frame). Imagine what they could have done with the Palatine with a second frame of options! At least the minimal options given to the Primaris Ancient is because two different banners takes up all the frame space.
Out of curiosity does the new Sisters line habe interchangeable parts with every other plastic model in the line like older Space Marines or Imperial Guard plastics?
All parts are interchangeable when hobby knives, glue, & (maybe) some green stuff is involved.
There is limited built-in compatibility between the Sisters Kits. The Battle Sister and Retritbutor kits are made to work together, especially the Sister Superior bits. 99% of the heads have the same join mechanism, or can be easily adjusted to fit on other models. The amount of conversion work needed to get a pistol arm from the Seraphim kit to work on some other bodies is minimal.
That being said, most bodies are designed to be built 2-3 ways with very specific bits that do not have instructions for use on other bodies.
alextroy wrote: There is limited built-in compatibility between the Sisters Kits. The Battle Sister and Retritbutor kits are made to work together, especially the Sister Superior bits. 99% of the heads have the same join mechanism, or can be easily adjusted to fit on other models. The amount of conversion work needed to get a pistol arm from the Seraphim kit to work on some other bodies is minimal.
That being said, most bodies are designed to be built 2-3 ways with very specific bits that do not have instructions for use on other bodies.
That seems to be the way GW is going - this torso has a partial arm to the elbow on the right side, that one has it on the left side, etc. - the customization of the old kits was much better with 5 sets of interchangable legs, two halves of a no arm torso, a head, and two + optional arms.
alextroy wrote: There is limited built-in compatibility between the Sisters Kits. The Battle Sister and Retritbutor kits are made to work together, especially the Sister Superior bits. 99% of the heads have the same join mechanism, or can be easily adjusted to fit on other models. The amount of conversion work needed to get a pistol arm from the Seraphim kit to work on some other bodies is minimal.
That being said, most bodies are designed to be built 2-3 ways with very specific bits that do not have instructions for use on other bodies.
That seems to be the way GW is going - this torso has a partial arm to the elbow on the right side, that one has it on the left side, etc. - the customization of the old kits was much better with 5 sets of interchangable legs, two halves of a no arm torso, a head, and two + optional arms.
For most rank and file it isn't too bad, as even a simple head angle/positioning alters how everyone looks in a squad to be more dynamic. For things like Plague Marines it simply doesn't work though as everyone is TOO unique.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I wonder if the new Chosen stuff works with the new CSM kit...
Don't worry. It does.
Like the CSM kit, each set of body-and-legs goes together in only one way (although the champion gets to choose from 2 chest-plates and 2 loincloths). But the arms, heads and backpacks are all interchangeable both with each other and with the CSM kit.
A little bit of righteous anger now and then is good, actually. Don't trust a person who never gets angry.
Sorry late on the reply, here... CSS reflects my experience, exactly, as I had a couple of boxes and had to finagle and use some putty that I had to use to mould into gaps and then which I embalmed with super glue to make rock-ish. Where not easily rectified, I shaved bits of sprue into purity seal-ish ribbons and used the putty to make wax stamps to cover over gaps. Stuff like that... worked for me, but I like doing things like that. Actually, I don't mind plastics basically monopose with weapon number 36 on the sprue fitting only torso assembly 8 or whatever, as I get a chance to use old skills honed on metal models from long ago, and cutting plastic models into pieces is easier than cutting metal models into pieces. After the cutting up, though, this is when the old tricks come into play...
But I don’t see the sense from any angle on doing multiple plastic kits for different loadouts for the same Codex Entry.
For instance, Primaris Lieutenants. Restrict their options within the Codex all you want (but preferably don’t!), but I just do not understand them all having separate plastic kits. That’s more expensive when it comes to tooling, and just seems daft.
As AnomanderRake said, do something like the Exalted Sorcerers kit, especially if like Lieutenants they’re likely to be models picked more than once in a given army list. It also necessitates a larger sprue, but one the bodies are out the way, loads of space for weapon options and that.
The upcoming Eldar kits have given some hope we’re emerging from those particular woods. But to be pessimistic (twice in one day, which is most unlike me) we can’t necessarily rule out right now that these are older things they’ve been sitting on for a while. And whilst I have nothing to back that up, we won’t know until eyes are on sprues and we can see the stamped date.
Unfortunately GW is all over the place when it comes to character models. Adepta Sororitas got both the many-optioned Canoness character (US$35 for two small frames) and the minimal-optioned Palatine (US$35 for two small frame). Imagine what they could have done with the Palatine with a second frame of options! At least the minimal options given to the Primaris Ancient is because two different banners takes up all the frame space.
Out of curiosity does the new Sisters line habe interchangeable parts with every other plastic model in the line like older Space Marines or Imperial Guard plastics?
All parts are interchangeable when hobby knives, glue, & (maybe) some green stuff is involved.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/16 18:27:53
I just got the new Boyz and that kit really made me think they must have had something else in mind for that one instead of selling it for full price let alone having it replace the old Boyz(thankfully they didn't) which are just superior in every way. These new Boyz work like Easy to build models or like Space Marine Heroes, you even have pre arranged holes in the Bases where they have to go. It's a strange set and I don't know why you ever would want two of them. It should be sold like these monopose sets for beginners in old times, where you only glued arms and heads but got 4 models for 8€ or even less .
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/16 21:42:12
Yeah the SoB are limited. No legacy boxes to pull from. I have lots of imperial bits and was able to make use of some to add bling but…. There is no getting around having to assemble and cut a bit for conversions unless one is content with two models looking more or less identical if one wants more than ten models of a certain type, five in the case of heavys.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/02/16 22:18:15
Ironically I kind of want the troops to be similar. I usually build up two boxes at time or so and make the non-leaders similar but not in the same squad or half of squad. I may or may not do the same thing with the Sergeants/leaders. It depends on how “expensive” or elite the unit is.
Yeah, I didn’t mind the SoB kits for one cuz I enjoy the modeling and converting aspect and for another cuz the models are really good, so smallish tweaks plus making scenic bases to change orientations and add differences that way was also fun.
It's a problem of kit interchangeability and waste.
Looking at the Cadian Guard range every body, head, arms and legs from every kit can be used with any other. So after building each kit as instructed you can then convert other kits simply by mixing up the bits and knowing no matter what combo you come up with will fit together. So whilst each box may only cover one specific role, they are actually available for a lot of customisation.
Contrast this with the Scions. One sprue that covers every possible Scion build. Fantastic for variety out of the box but the waste is incredible. If you build 5 standard Scions from the sprue it is left so full of bits I've mistaken them for unused sprues before. So rather then cross kiting to get variety you just have to buy repeats of the same sprue and are left with piles of left over bits. GW really need to a simple body, legs and head Scion sprue.
So based on the poll I like a kit to represent one thing but for that one thing to be easily cross kitted with others from the same range.
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