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EightFoldPath wrote:
I can't believe everyone in this thread sent death threats to GW, shame on you community.

DeathThreat.org, which is an off-shoot of Petition.org I believe.

How dare us!

 Insectum7 wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

EightFoldPath wrote:
I can't believe everyone in this thread sent death threats to GW, shame on you community.

It was a chain letter sent out to all of us. I made a second account so I could send two of them.

Fixed it

Tbh I'm not sure the significance of the difference here?

Now my english isn't the greatest, but there is a difference between sending a letter to the owner of a channel or forum, and sending it to everyone still subscribed to the channel or forum. And it is not jus numerical, clearly the intent is different. In first case you want to get some reaction from one person, in the other the goal , I assume, seems to be the change of acting by the whole group.

^I get there's a difference between the two, but the intended point of the defference being made eludes me.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

EightFoldPath wrote:
I can't believe everyone in this thread sent death threats to GW, shame on you community.

DeathThreat.org, which is an off-shoot of Petition.org I believe.

How dare us!

I feel bad about sending those death threats now. Also I just learned that I sent those death threats. It's been a rough day for my conscious...

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Did the 'community' send death threats?

That guilt by association isn't likely to end well.

Well Gert is part of the community so by accusing the community as sending death threats they're implicating themselves. Shame on you Gert, that's shocking behaviour.

Here is the thing. It doesn't matter if a few "bad apples" sent death threats. These things are to be taken seriously, and if GW(or anyone associating with them) is getting death threats then it will always reflect upon the community. Because the problem with anonymous threats is that they are anonymous, and for all we know Lord Damocles could have been the one who sent the death threats. Not saying that he did, but that the problematic nature of anonymity means you can't treat the individual bad apples as "individual". In short, everyone is a potential suspect.

I work at a game studio and every year(with exception of COVID years) we have had conventions for our games. If someone would send one of our employees a death threat(which has happened) it would be hard for us to spot actual threats at the convention due to the anonymity the internet offers which means that the employee in question needs to be on edge the entire time. That's not fun.

Edit: I am not saying anyone here actually sent death threats, but illustrating the problems faced by companies and individuals when threatened by anonymous individuals.

Unsurprising that people are treating the incident as a joke and just brushing it under the carpet.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
GW's awesome now. They have a Facebook page and everything!

However, I learned that millennials and generation Z do not use facebook regularly.

 Gert wrote:
Unsurprising that people are treating the incident as a joke and just brushing it under the carpet.

Well you see it's not my first day on the internet.

 Overread wrote:
GW only went after those who were gaining financial income off their fan-works. Which honestly is fair, you'd expect that of most firms. Heck with US trademark laws if GW isn't seen to take steps to protect it from such activities, they can lose their trademarks and suddenly they've a whole heap of problems.

Not really how it works. What you're talking about here is how stuff like "Kleenex" has become generic for "facial tissue," or how "Xerox" became a verb. In fact, GW is more likely to run afoul of it as they push the idea that GW = minis wargaming = a hobby until itself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Said community also sent death threats to someone to who GW offered a job so let's not pretend they're the good guys here.

How do we know those people are earnest or just trolls peripherally associated with the community? Or just kids who don't know they shouldn't do that?

Earnest, troll, poorly raised child.... doesn't matter. If your sending death threats I'm just going to assume the worst about you.

Ok fine, but why are you lumping the rest of the community in with them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eldarsif wrote:
Here is the thing. It doesn't matter if a few "bad apples" sent death threats. These things are to be taken seriously, and if GW(or anyone associating with them) is getting death threats then it will always reflect upon the community.

Eh, taking it out on the community to avoid accountability for design decisions is still laughably immature though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gert wrote:
Unsurprising that people are treating the incident as a joke and just brushing it under the carpet.

In retrospect it was not a serious threat. Also, if brushing it under the carpet implies that we're still willing to hold GW accountable for things, then brushing it under the carpet is the right thing to do.

 Eldarsif wrote:
Here is the thing. It doesn't matter if a few "bad apples" sent death threats. These things are to be taken seriously, and if GW(or anyone associating with them) is getting death threats then it will always reflect upon the community. Because the problem with anonymous threats is that they are anonymous, and for all we know Lord Damocles could have been the one who sent the death threats. Not saying that he did, but that the problematic nature of anonymity means you can't treat the individual bad apples as "individual". In short, everyone is a potential suspect.

I work at a game studio and every year(with exception of COVID years) we have had conventions for our games. If someone would send one of our employees a death threat(which has happened) it would be hard for us to spot actual threats at the convention due to the anonymity the internet offers which means that the employee in question needs to be on edge the entire time. That's not fun.

Edit: I am not saying anyone here actually sent death threats, but illustrating the problems faced by companies and individuals when threatened by anonymous individuals.

Right, but I presume that your company also understands that A: Not everyone is sending death threats, and B: Your community might have valid criticisms about your product.

Also C: That companies can really screw up and create a lot of ill will.

Also, fellow game developer here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Unsurprising that people are treating the incident as a joke and just brushing it under the carpet.

Well you see it's not my first day on the internet.

Yeah this, lol.

 Sim-Life wrote:
Well you see it's not my first day on the internet.

Matt Ward got death threats and GW changed the way designers were credited. Death threats should always be treated as actionable. But hey, I'm sure the guy who got the threats is doing great and hasn't lost all love for 40k and lost out on a job.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hecaton wrote:
In retrospect it was not a serious threat. Also, if brushing it under the carpet implies that we're still willing to hold GW accountable for things, then brushing it under the carpet is the right thing to do.

It does not surprise me that you think sending death threats to people is a good thing.

Hecaton wrote:

 Overread wrote:
GW only went after those who were gaining financial income off their fan-works. Which honestly is fair, you'd expect that of most firms. Heck with US trademark laws if GW isn't seen to take steps to protect it from such activities, they can lose their trademarks and suddenly they've a whole heap of problems.

Not really how it works. What you're talking about here is how stuff like "Kleenex" has become generic for "facial tissue," or how "Xerox" became a verb. In fact, GW is more likely to run afoul of it as they push the idea that GW = minis wargaming = a hobby until itself.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Said community also sent death threats to someone to who GW offered a job so let's not pretend they're the good guys here.

How do we know those people are earnest or just trolls peripherally associated with the community? Or just kids who don't know they shouldn't do that?

Earnest, troll, poorly raised child.... doesn't matter. If your sending death threats I'm just going to assume the worst about you.

Ok fine, but why are you lumping the rest of the community in with them?

Well, I know it wasn't me. I didn't receive the chain letter, don't believe in tipping my hand on such matters, and most importantly don't think GW was in the wrong.
And there's a handful of people IRL I know that it's not.

But the rest of you? Guilty until proven innocent. Especially anyone who sided with the creators GW took action against.

 Gert wrote:

Matt Ward got death threats and GW changed the way designers were credited. Death threats should always be treated as actionable. But hey, I'm sure the guy who got the threats is doing great and hasn't lost all love for 40k and lost out on a job.

Cynically, I think they changed the way designers were credited because it prevents individual people from being called out for bad balance decisions.

 Gert wrote:

It does not surprise me that you think sending death threats to people is a good thing.

Legitimately, you're arguing that because some idiot on the internet sent Ward a joke of a death threat (and we know it was a joke because they didn't follow through) GW is beyond reproach for its balance and communications decisions. That's the point I'm criticizing. If you don't think that's true and there was a miscommunication, go ahead and state otherwise. I really don't care about your freundschamen though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:
But the rest of you? Guilty until proven innocent. Especially anyone who sided with the creators GW took action against.

The idea that you would give the rest of the community collective guilt for that is disgustingly servile on your part. GW isn't keeping track of "good boy" points somewhere in Nottingham.

And GW's definitely in the wrong to go after transformative satire like TTS, at least in the US. The fact that they can get away with it because they have lawyers on retainer is irrelevant.

Hecaton wrote:
Cynically, I think they changed the way designers were credited because it prevents individual people from being called out for bad balance decisions.

Yeah no, I'm going with the death threats.

Legitimately, you're arguing that because some idiot on the internet sent Ward a joke of a death threat (and we know it was a joke because they didn't follow through) GW is beyond reproach for its balance and communications decisions. That's the point I'm criticizing. If you don't think that's true and there was a miscommunication, go ahead and state otherwise. I really don't care about your freundschamen though.

Man, you woke up and screwed the stupid hat on tight didn't you?
Death threats rarely get acted on and are primarily a source of harassment, coercion, or extortion. They do not need to be acted on to be bad and it is a crime in both the UK and USA to send death threats.
Also, I very specifically said GW has made mistakes in this very thread. Maybe you should learn to read previous posts before using your butt to talk.

And GW's definitely in the wrong to go after transformative satire like TTS, at least in the US. The fact that they can get away with it because they have lawyers on retainer is irrelevant.

Didn't happen actually. GW didn't go after TTS at all, people just acted like GW did so they could drum up anger.

An international company takes moves to protects its IP and shut down people trying to cash in on it….shock horror!

Same company launches a pay to view service and reduces its free output to try and encourage people to move to the pay to view service. Another absolute shocker!!

GW IS A COMPANY WITH SHAREHOLDERS THEY ARE LEGALLY OBLIGED TO LOOM AFTER THEIR INTERESTS.

They are not a public service that has responsibilities to its users. They are not obliged to provide you x,y or z. You can choose not to buy their products.

PS. Sending death threats isn’t holding someone to account. It thuggery. We don’t know how serious they were but that doesn’t matter. They were sent and they will have affected the recipient badly. But no surprise that the “community” here on dakka think that’s ok. (By community, I mean the vocal ones on here who consistently spout bile and discord).

 Gert wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
Well you see it's not my first day on the internet.

Matt Ward got death threats and GW changed the way designers were credited. Death threats should always be treated as actionable. But hey, I'm sure the guy who got the threats is doing great and hasn't lost all love for 40k and lost out on a job.

Actually I'm sure he put on his big boy pants, ignored it like any sensible person and got on with his life. If I crumpled up into a ball and wept uncontrollably every time someone told me to kill myself in a game lobby or online I'd never get anything done.

Also they changed the way they credited designers because people were giving Cruddace gak for his tyranid codexes. The 7th Ed Nid codex was the first "GW Design Team" book for a reason. Reason being it was gak and everyone knew Cruddace wrote it, but they had deniability until they said in WD that he'd written it because GW are inept.

Andykp wrote:
PS. Sending death threats isn’t holding someone to account. It thuggery.

I never said it was. Go back and read my posts and try again.

Hecaton wrote:

Andykp wrote:
PS. Sending death threats isn’t holding someone to account. It thuggery.

I never said it was. Go back and read my posts and try again.

If that’s the only but you have an issue with then that’s progress, I read what you put, paraphrased it.

I will add this, sending death threats to someone, isn’t a joke either, it’s thuggery. Even if you never to intend to carry them out, or never try to. Anyone who thinks it’s ok to do that, is as bad.

Andykp wrote:
If that’s the only but you have an issue with then that’s progress, I read what you put, paraphrased it.

What?

Andykp wrote:
I will add this, sending death threats to someone, isn’t a joke either, it’s thuggery. Even if you never to intend to carry them out, or never try to. Anyone who thinks it’s ok to do that, is as bad.

Oh, it can definitely be a joke. Different people have different senses of humor.

Hecaton wrote:

Andykp wrote:
I will add this, sending death threats to someone, isn’t a joke either, it’s thuggery. Even if you never to intend to carry them out, or never try to. Anyone who thinks it’s ok to do that, is as bad.

Oh, it can definitely be a joke. Different people have different senses of humor.

Context is everything and this wasn't "I Kiiiiiiilll you" from a Jeff Dunham stand up comedy act.

This is death threats or threats of personal bodily harm to a persons private email address; and not from some random spambot



I'm sorry but we are getting into the realms of being daft when we start to argue that death-threats can be ok in context, when the context was already well established.

 Eldarsif wrote:
Here is the thing. It doesn't matter if a few "bad apples" sent death threats. These things are to be taken seriously, and if GW(or anyone associating with them) is getting death threats then it will always reflect upon the community. Because the problem with anonymous threats is that they are anonymous, and for all we know Lord Damocles could have been the one who sent the death threats. Not saying that he did, but that the problematic nature of anonymity means you can't treat the individual bad apples as "individual". In short, everyone is a potential suspect.

To me death threats from a wargaming community, done with anonimity or not, don't seem to hold much weight. [Redacted by Kilkrazy]. Threats sent over someone signing up to work with a company you dislike feels like trolling. And how would it even work, getting a visa, a ticket and then someone arming yourself would be stupid hard to do and easy to track. And when someone of the people live in countries where weapons are hard to get and even harder to bring in to the country, it just seems bizzar.

Seems like we've drifted from the original topic and this has just become "Yeah but it's really the players' fault!" attempt.

Well in the end that is what GW says. They claim their games are perfect or near perfect. That their models are the best in the world with the highest quality. And if something goes wrong, someone is unhappy about something, then it just means that the people around them are playing the game or participating in the hoby the wrong way. I only expirianced two editions 8th and 9th, and not a single time have I seen GW even aknowladge they did something bad or wrong. I think the closest to it was saying that they ,weren't fully satisfied.

 Overread wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

Andykp wrote:
I will add this, sending death threats to someone, isn’t a joke either, it’s thuggery. Even if you never to intend to carry them out, or never try to. Anyone who thinks it’s ok to do that, is as bad.

Oh, it can definitely be a joke. Different people have different senses of humor.

Context is everything and this wasn't "I Kiiiiiiilll you" from a Jeff Dunham stand up comedy act.

This is death threats or threats of personal bodily harm to a persons private email address; and not from some random spambot

[Citation needed]

 Overread wrote:



Context is everything and this wasn't "I Kiiiiiiilll you" from a Jeff Dunham stand up comedy act.

This is death threats or threats of personal bodily harm to a persons private email address; and not from some random spambot



I'm sorry but we are getting into the realms of being daft when we start to argue that death-threats can be ok in context, when the context was already well established.

The issue is AndyKP wasn't restricting things to that context.

The logic on display in this thread:

Some muslims are terrorists.
Terrorism is bad.
No muslims deserve any voice because some of them are terrorists.

That's where we're at, apparently. Good job guys!

 Insectum7 wrote:
The logic on display in this thread:

Some muslims are terrorists.
Terrorism is bad.
No muslims deserve any voice because some of them are terrorists.

That's where we're at, apparently. Good job guys!

Not at all, in fact that’s ridiculous.

We are at - death threats, bad.
GW has shifted its focus to try and make money from its pay to view platform. That may be good, it may bad. But it’s business.
Saying death threats are a joke, bad.

Personally I am undecided yet if warhammer + is worth it, so far it’s hit and miss, but some enjoyable stuff. Warhammer community site is still ok, the standard warhammer tv painting stuff is poor. Are we better off or worse off than before? I think probably worse off on balance but there’s potential for them to turn it around. I really enjoyed some of the podcast style stuff with jes Goodwin and John Blanche etc, i’d like to some of that on warhammer + or just some more of that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

Andykp wrote:
I will add this, sending death threats to someone, isn’t a joke either, it’s thuggery. Even if you never to intend to carry them out, or never try to. Anyone who thinks it’s ok to do that, is as bad.

Oh, it can definitely be a joke. Different people have different senses of humor.

Context is everything and this wasn't "I Kiiiiiiilll you" from a Jeff Dunham stand up comedy act.

This is death threats or threats of personal bodily harm to a persons private email address; and not from some random spambot

[Citation needed]

No it isn’t. We are all well aware of the incident that is doing lauded to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hecaton wrote:

 Overread wrote:



Context is everything and this wasn't "I Kiiiiiiilll you" from a Jeff Dunham stand up comedy act.

This is death threats or threats of personal bodily harm to a persons private email address; and not from some random spambot



I'm sorry but we are getting into the realms of being daft when we start to argue that death-threats can be ok in context, when the context was already well established.

The issue is AndyKP wasn't restricting things to that context.

Removed - Rule #1

Andykp wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
The logic on display in this thread:

Some muslims are terrorists.
Terrorism is bad.
No muslims deserve any voice because some of them are terrorists.

That's where we're at, apparently. Good job guys!

Not at all, in fact that’s ridiculous.

We are at - death threats, bad.

Exhibit A:

 Gert wrote:

Said community also sent death threats to someone to who GW offered a job so let's not pretend they're the good guys here.

Death threats are raised in order to villify the entire community.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Exhibit A:

 Gert wrote:

Said community also sent death threats to someone to who GW offered a job so let's not pretend they're the good guys here.

Death threats are raised in order to villify the entire community.

Actually, it was raised because people were going back down the "GW is evil because they got rid of fan content" road and people should be reminded what fans did in response. People on Dakka especially have a hard time actually staying to the truth on this particular issue and either make up fake grievances i.e. "GW canceled TTS" or brush the bad actions of the community under the carpet because it doesn't suit their narrative.