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I am making a Primaris Scale bike with sidecar, the sidecar armed with Multimelta. Would you prefer to see something like this count as an Attack bike, or the ATV?

The Mario Kart, for me.

The ATV is an actual model with its own rules. Playing it as something else maybe a bit confusing. On the other hand a side cart bike model with a MM would look a lot like the regular MM attack bike, for a lot of people the difference would probably not be visible, unless they play marines themselfs.

Its a bike with a sidecar multimelta?

Doesn't sound like there's a reason for it not to be an attack bike.

Assuming it’s going to be to scale for the primaris bike, it’s going to be chunky. Might be a bit large for an attack bike. A lot depends on the actual size.

I’d honestly be fine with it being used for either.

Yeah me too. Size for targeting purposes might be the most important factor…

I've seen a few of them on the 3D Printing sites. I'd use it as the ATV statline (It's Primaris, and the ATV is basically a Primaris Attack Bike)

I would do that as the ATV for sure. The sidecar makes it sound a little too big for just a bike. Don't be put off by the naysayers, counts as can be just as cool or cooler than the original. If anyone gives you any guff about using a cool model for a counts as, they're not worth playing. Period.

It's perfectly doable to make the model the same footprint and volume as the original, so targeting shouldn't be an issue if you are honest with your build. It also helps to give your opponent the benefit of the doubt in those situations. I think so long as you are striving to make a cool model and not modelling for advantage then it's totally fine. As for using a counts as for an existing model, well that's the point - to have something unique!

Post pics, get crackin'!

Without a scale shot, impossible to tell, if you're
not bothered about that then whichever you want.

 Hairesy wrote:
I would do that as the ATV for sure. The sidecar makes it sound a little too big for just a bike. Don't be put off by the naysayers, counts as can be just as cool or cooler than the original. If anyone gives you any guff about using a cool model for a counts as, they're not worth playing. Period.

Sorry mate, but I'm all for count-as and have done numerous ones in the past, including entire armies, but an Attack Bike it is not. It fails a fundamental tenet of counts-as. Can it be confused for something else? If the Mario Kart did not have a MM as an option, then you're good to go; however it does. If someone sees a small Primaris vehicle across the board from them it is not unreasonable for them to think it is the Mario Kart and not an Attack Bike.

Counts as is not a free for all. There are unspoken rules in place, one being what I posted above, (the other being Does it accurately represent what I'm counting it as?) to make sure you are not MFA or other such things to cause undue confusion for your opponent.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Hairesy wrote:
I would do that as the ATV for sure. The sidecar makes it sound a little too big for just a bike. Don't be put off by the naysayers, counts as can be just as cool or cooler than the original. If anyone gives you any guff about using a cool model for a counts as, they're not worth playing. Period.

Sorry mate, but I'm all for count-as and have done numerous ones in the past, including entire armies, but an Attack Bike it is not. It fails a fundamental tenet of counts-as. Can it be confused for something else? If the Mario Kart did not have a MM as an option, then you're good to go; however it does. If someone sees a small Primaris vehicle across the board from them it is not unreasonable for them to think it is the Mario Kart and not an Attack Bike.

Counts as is not a free for all. There are unspoken rules in place, one being what I posted above, (the other being Does it accurately represent what I'm counting it as?) to make sure you are not MFA or other such things to cause undue confusion for your opponent.

We should probably all make sure we're on the same page - I assume its something similar to these.

See, as I said I'd be wary of that- now frankly I'm not up on the minutiae of differences in the SM codex, but as both the Mario Kart and Attack Bike have almost identical weapons then that is grounds for confusion and openings for accusations of MFA.

Do not misinterpret me. Counts as is a topic very near and dear to my heart, but I've seen (fairly) recently a fair few that would have got a straight up "no" in the past, but now various communities (not just wargaming) have latched onto words like "gatekeeping" and are too afraid to say no.

Member when we had a TSOALR comic with the Coke bottle Carnifex and they rightfully derided this kind of proxying? I member.

If two options exist, and one has a side cart and the other one doesn't, playing the one with the side cart as something without it would be a tad confusing. It is like making a hive tyrant looking like a fex or making a winged dude with a rocket launcher, and then informing your opponent that he is not starting to cast psychic powers, because while he is modeled like an autarch, he is in fact a farseer.

Breton wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Hairesy wrote:
I would do that as the ATV for sure. The sidecar makes it sound a little too big for just a bike. Don't be put off by the naysayers, counts as can be just as cool or cooler than the original. If anyone gives you any guff about using a cool model for a counts as, they're not worth playing. Period.

Sorry mate, but I'm all for count-as and have done numerous ones in the past, including entire armies, but an Attack Bike it is not. It fails a fundamental tenet of counts-as. Can it be confused for something else? If the Mario Kart did not have a MM as an option, then you're good to go; however it does. If someone sees a small Primaris vehicle across the board from them it is not unreasonable for them to think it is the Mario Kart and not an Attack Bike.

Counts as is not a free for all. There are unspoken rules in place, one being what I posted above, (the other being Does it accurately represent what I'm counting it as?) to make sure you are not MFA or other such things to cause undue confusion for your opponent.

We should probably all make sure we're on the same page - I assume its something similar to these.

What I SEE: Primaris on MM attack bikes.
There is no such thing.
So my immediate question would be: Are those Primaris?

Answer: "yes" - telks s me all I need to likely know. That those things are ATVs rules wise.
Answer "no - ok, those are attack bikes.

ccs wrote:


What I SEE: Primaris on MM attack bikes.
There is no such thing.
So my immediate question would be: Are those Primaris?

Answer: "yes" - telks s me all I need to likely know. That those things are ATVs rules wise.
Answer "no - ok, those are attack bikes.

I've seen regular Attack Bikes on the same 3D printing site, so I just assume they are Primaris and thus ATVs. I wouldn't be a fan of them being non-primaris

Breton wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Hairesy wrote:
I would do that as the ATV for sure. The sidecar makes it sound a little too big for just a bike. Don't be put off by the naysayers, counts as can be just as cool or cooler than the original. If anyone gives you any guff about using a cool model for a counts as, they're not worth playing. Period.

Sorry mate, but I'm all for count-as and have done numerous ones in the past, including entire armies, but an Attack Bike it is not. It fails a fundamental tenet of counts-as. Can it be confused for something else? If the Mario Kart did not have a MM as an option, then you're good to go; however it does. If someone sees a small Primaris vehicle across the board from them it is not unreasonable for them to think it is the Mario Kart and not an Attack Bike.

Counts as is not a free for all. There are unspoken rules in place, one being what I posted above, (the other being Does it accurately represent what I'm counting it as?) to make sure you are not MFA or other such things to cause undue confusion for your opponent.

We should probably all make sure we're on the same page - I assume its something similar to these.

What I SEE: Primaris on MM attack bikes.
There is no such thing.
So my immediate question would be: Are those Primaris?

Answer: "yes" - telks s me all I need to likely know. That those things are ATVs rules wise.
Answer "no - ok, those are attack bikes.

Breton 804152 11329643 wrote:

I've seen regular Attack Bikes on the same 3D printing site, so I just assume they are Primaris and thus ATVs. I wouldn't be a fan of them being non-primaris

Why? Specially as there are no primaris attack bikes. If someone converts a Lt or Cpt with a jump pack using an intercessor body, you think he is some sort of Shriek counts as?

Not saying this is wrong thing to think. I just find it very suprising that an attack bike has its nature decided by who ever is ridding it.

Karol wrote:
If someone converts a Lt or Cpt with a jump pack using an intercessor body, you think he is some sort of Shriek counts as?

Um, yes. So long as it has the correct equipment and cannot be confused for something else. This is not a difficult concept to grasp.

Karol wrote:

Breton 804152 11329643 wrote:

I've seen regular Attack Bikes on the same 3D printing site, so I just assume they are Primaris and thus ATVs. I wouldn't be a fan of them being non-primaris

Why? Specially as there are no primaris attack bikes. If someone converts a Lt or Cpt with a jump pack using an intercessor body, you think he is some sort of Shriek counts as?

Not saying this is wrong thing to think. I just find it very suprising that an attack bike has its nature decided by who ever is ridding it.

Because there is a Firstborn Attack Bike that looks almost identical. Its not really going for a different look, whereas the Outrider Bike with Sidecar is a fairly different look than the ATV which people love/hate.

Either seems fine, but I'd go with the one that is closer in size, so probably ATV?

Breton wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Hairesy wrote:
I would do that as the ATV for sure. The sidecar makes it sound a little too big for just a bike. Don't be put off by the naysayers, counts as can be just as cool or cooler than the original. If anyone gives you any guff about using a cool model for a counts as, they're not worth playing. Period.

Sorry mate, but I'm all for count-as and have done numerous ones in the past, including entire armies, but an Attack Bike it is not. It fails a fundamental tenet of counts-as. Can it be confused for something else? If the Mario Kart did not have a MM as an option, then you're good to go; however it does. If someone sees a small Primaris vehicle across the board from them it is not unreasonable for them to think it is the Mario Kart and not an Attack Bike.

Counts as is not a free for all. There are unspoken rules in place, one being what I posted above, (the other being Does it accurately represent what I'm counting it as?) to make sure you are not MFA or other such things to cause undue confusion for your opponent.

We should probably all make sure we're on the same page - I assume its something similar to these.

Those look like attack bikes to me.
Primaris/non-Primaris is a meaningless thing- the only distinguishing feature is gear. If people stick jump packs on assault intercessors, they're... assault marines (or vanguard vets if painted/equipped properly).
Similarly, GW scale is a questionable thing at best, so size isn't the best judge of anything. Are old metal terminators now power armor?

Attack Bikes if you want. Kart thing if you want. Whichever you please!

I’m sure those look like Attack Bikes from 4 feet away. There would need to be actual Attack Bikes nearby to notice otherwise.

Why nobody has done a trike with the gunner in the back for a buggy variant I'll never understand.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Why nobody has done a trike with the gunner in the back for a buggy variant I'll never understand.

I’ve seen someone mod the ATV like that. Looked a lot better.

My first impression would be attack bike when at the table.

Just tell your opponent at the start of the game.

Don't listen to people you probably will never play against.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Why nobody has done a trike with the gunner in the back for a buggy variant I'll never understand.

This was actually what I was originally going to do. I had some trouble finding the right doodads to do the conversion and make it look decent. Tracks in the back just seem too Orky, and I can't find the right wheels or rear platform to pull it off right.

Those look like attack bikes to me and I assume to almost everyone else as well. Sure, they might be a bit bigger but that difference won't be such that it radically changes the whole game or anything. So I would use them as attack bikes.

 Grimtuff wrote:

Karol wrote:
If someone converts a Lt or Cpt with a jump pack using an intercessor body, you think he is some sort of Shriek counts as?

Um, yes. So long as it has the correct equipment and cannot be confused for something else. This is not a difficult concept to grasp.

But would that be your first though on seeing the model put on the table. A SS and someshield, but core of the model is an assault intercessor, so your first thought would not be ,this is clearly a jump pack cpt, Lt or chapter master, but rather no matter how it looks the only hero for primaris with a jet pack is the ravenguard hero there for this is has to be him in counts as.

I find it just wierd. The model clearly looks like an attack bike. it looks nothing like a primaris ATV. I would love to know what can cause people to think that way. And again this is not a good way, bad way of thinking thing. Just trying to understand how people think. Took me like 3 years to understand that when people talk about playing w40k they assume someone will have multiple armies and more then 2k pts . And like 2 years to understand that GK are only marines in arguments when someone hates meq as a whole idea and not the lore stuff about being marines.