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Twilight Pathways wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
For those that have seen the unit entry, what do the unit weapons options look like for the troops units? As in, how many guys can be upgraded to carry a heavy weapon?

11 - 19 models: 2 models can take fancy guns
20 models: 4 models can take fancy guns
Leader can take fancy pistol and a choice of combat weapons

Unless you made a mistake, looks like units of 10 can't take any heavies?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I gotta say, looking at just the basic rules, I'm tempted to make this a very basic infantry-based army for my 2,000 point list. 80ish troops, a couple leaders, a handful of elites/heavies to deal with specific threats, and a buggy to go out and grab objectives.

It's strange how the Banner bearers clearly shown in some of the art turned out to not be a thing.

 cuda1179 wrote:


Unless you made a mistake, looks like units of 10 can't take any heavies?

My mistake, meant to say 10 - 19, corrected now

Ugh, I don't like that. So you need to field exactly 20 models to field 4 special weapons? What sense does that make?
It feels really unnatural to me, how it just suddenly jumps from 2 to 4 after a single model.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ugh, I don't like that. So you need to field exactly 20 models to field 4 special weapons? What sense does that make?
It feels really unnatural to me, how it just suddenly jumps from 2 to 4 after a single model.

You buy 2 boxes and put them together.

Tyel wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ugh, I don't like that. So you need to field exactly 20 models to field 4 special weapons? What sense does that make?
It feels really unnatural to me, how it just suddenly jumps from 2 to 4 after a single model.

You buy 2 boxes and put them together.

I get that's what they are going for, it still feels awkward.
Like, what if I want to field 2 squads of 15? Shouldn't I have 3 special weapons per squad then?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Like, what if I want to field 2 squads of 15? Shouldn't I have 3 special weapons per squad then?

Questioning squad load-out! That's a Judgement Token™!

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

See, but that's why it exists. It's a type of gun that explicitly doesn't interact with stuff, it's not Assault nor Heavy nor Rapid Fire nor Pistol, just a set number of shots and literally nothing else. Weird we didn't have it before, tbh

Am i the only one that remembers the new type of weapon that share a name with that very forum? Dakka weapon anyone?

Remember when GW removed core tactical positioning feature of the game like templates and vehicle facing because they wanted to "streamline the game"?
Thos random new weapon types sure do help to keep the game lean amirit?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
It's strange how the Banner bearers clearly shown in some of the art turned out to not be a thing.

Just you wait for 10th to drop 4 months after their release and for GW to push their new codex that includes all thos obvious units they didn't want to release at the same time.

 (HN) wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
It's strange how the Banner bearers clearly shown in some of the art turned out to not be a thing.

Just you wait for 10th to drop 4 months after their release and for GW to push their new codex that includes all thos obvious units they didn't want to release at the same time.

Hopefully this is the case. There's been some quite interesting stuff shown in the artwork that doesn't seem to be just vague background filler, like some Kin who have a vastly different style to the rest and look more like Retro Squats.

Well that’s it for me, don’t care what anyone says, they definitely aren’t an April fools.

Twilight Pathways wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
For those that have seen the unit entry, what do the unit weapons options look like for the troops units? As in, how many guys can be upgraded to carry a heavy weapon?

10 - 19 models: 2 models can take fancy guns
20 models: 4 models can take fancy guns
Leader can take fancy pistol and a choice of combat weapons

Lemme guess, you can't double up on one particular one until you hit 20 dudes like Skitarii.

You can't double up until you hit 20, correct.

It's another awful weapon list:
GW have learnt nothing.

Andykp wrote:
Well that’s it for me, don’t care what anyone says, they definitely aren’t an April fools.

Are you kidding? All this is just more evidence the whole thing is a gag. I’m just not sure who’s being played more though; the nostalgia eaters or the bean counters.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You can't double up until you hit 20, correct.

It's another awful weapon list:

Spoiler:

GW have learnt nothing.

Holy gak and it's as badly laid out as the Skitarii one.
Really hating GW "rules writers" not gonna lie.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You can't double up until you hit 20, correct.

It's another awful weapon list:

Spoiler:

GW have learnt nothing.

I mean... the arbitrary cut at 20 is stupid, but it's still way, WAY better than the dark age that is still to this day the Plague Marines sheet.

At least here its a clean case of "This quad can be equiped with 2 different type of main weapon, and can take up to 2/4 special weapons" (instead of silly stuff like "for every 5.4 model you can pick one weapon B, for every 5.4 models you can pick one of weapon C. No you can't take 2B or 2C because we said so).

The only stupid thing here is that thos units should have been way more modular and have a midpoint 1 special weapon per 5 guys, keep the minimum of 10 still, because we all know how cheesy ultra cheap bare minimum squad can be, but at least let the players use 2 squads of 15 if they want.

While I am disappointed that you can't have 4 of the same weapon, there is a decent amount of choices, and I'm hoping that two of them have a similar enough profile to synergize. Having three medics in a squad could keep it alive pretty long with all those bullet catchers in there.

You can't take 3 medics in the same way you can't take 2 HYLAS-Auto-Bautos or 2 EtaETC Plasmamamamajammas without first taking 20 models.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You can't take 3 medics in the same way you can't take 2 HYLAS-Auto-Bautos or 2 EtaETC Plasmamamamajammas without first taking 20 models.

Actually, it looks like you CAN do it with even a 10-man squad.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You can't take 3 medics in the same way you can't take 2 HYLAS-Auto-Bautos or 2 EtaETC Plasmamamamajammas without first taking 20 models.

But why would you want to take more than one of each of thos 3 specialists tho? We don't know yet what they exactly do, but looking at that sheet it looks pretty clear that they are the usual banner style upgrade that give a buff/ability to the whole squad, the kind of stuff not meant to stack.

 (HN) wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You can't double up until you hit 20, correct.

It's another awful weapon list:

Spoiler:

GW have learnt nothing.

I mean... the arbitrary cut at 20 is stupid, but it's still way, WAY better than the dark age that is still to this day the Plague Marines sheet.

That's not exactly a high hurdle

 cuda1179 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You can't take 3 medics in the same way you can't take 2 HYLAS-Auto-Bautos or 2 EtaETC Plasmamamamajammas without first taking 20 models.

Actually, it looks like you CAN do it with even a 10-man squad.

'3 different warriors can each take one different option' says otherwise

EviscerationPlague wrote:

That's not exactly a high hurdle

You'd be surprised.

Hell, their specialist even have the luxury of being able to change his main weapon with the rest of the unit, something almost... none others can these days.

 (HN) wrote:
We don't know yet what they exactly do...

Medic - Change Damage to 0 for first failed save per turn.
Comms Array - Gain 'Comms' Keyword, and when within 24" of Kahl count as being within Aura range.
Scanner - Gain 'Scanner' Keyword, all attacks from unit ignore Light Cover.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 (HN) wrote:
We don't know yet what they exactly do...

Medic - Change Damage to 0 for first failed save per turn.
Comms Array - Gain 'Comms' Keyword, and when within 24" of Kahl count as being within Aura range.
Scanner - Gain 'Scanner' Keyword, all attacks from unit ignore Light Cover.

Aight, so exactly as I said, this is all the very standard unit buff we have seen many time before.
Why exactly are you complaining about the fact that you can't take multiple of them? They were never meant to be stacked.
If anything they are the only reason why you'd want to take a blob of 20 rather than 10, to make thos buff effectively half price for the same effectiveness.

Again, while I have a lot to gak on GW for thos failed space dwarf, the state of their wargear option is not one of them. They are on the higher side of what used to be the norm.
The full squad can be outfited with 2 different main weapon. It can take 2 heavy weapons from a pool of 4 and it can take up to 3 different specialist which will buff the whole squad, while still being able to change their main weapon with the rest of the squad (something one again that many other would love to be able to do too).

Hell, even the sergeant has more option than most units out there.
He can take the same main weapon than the rest of the squad (so the alt weapon too), or pick one of 3 pistol to go with 1 out of 3 mele weapon.
That's pretty good.

Really, there's not much to hate with thos wargear options.

 (HN) wrote:
Why exactly are you complaining about the fact that you can't take multiple of them?

I wasn't.

In fact, I only mentioned the specialists because cuda1179 thought you could take more than one of each. I was simply correcting him.

 (HN) wrote:
Really, there's not much to hate with thos wargear options.

No, it's another kit-based restrictive bull-gak list to go alongside all the other ones. It's as bad as the Skitarii ones, where you can't double up on a single weapon type, but have to take different weapons within a normal squad until you hit 20, and even then you can't take 4 of the same type, you have to take - at best - 2 and 2.

It's asinine rules writing and a continued example of how completely out of touch GW is. Plus how much of a death grip "no model/no rule" has taken upon their creative side.

Well, crap. I can't believe I totally misread that entry option. Sorry about that.

That being said, IF 3 medics were allowed, ignoring the first 3 wounds the unit receives per turn might be a bit OP.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
No, it's another kit-based restrictive bull-gak list to go alongside all the other ones. It's as bad as the Skitarii ones, where you can't double up on a single weapon type, but have to take different weapons within a normal squad until you hit 20, and even then you can't take 4 of the same type, you have to take - at best - 2 and 2.

It's asinine rules writing and a continued example of how completely out of touch GW is. Plus how much of a death grip "no model/no rule" has taken upon their creative side.

Aight, after rereading that frankly cancerous wording I now realize that I was wrong, I thought they meant you could just pick 2 options for the heavy weapon list... but I missed the little "different" infront of options...

So yeah, it's as you said, in line with the trashy new GW way that forces you to mix and match profile on a squad, which not only restrict you for no reason, but also create a LOT of friction in the dice roll process, adding different rolls for each new profile rather than letting you mass roll your stuff.

That's a shame... and what's even worse is that it probably wont ever improve. I fear the day they'll redo the grey knight kit...

Edit: Still while I hate the weapon restriction, I still really don't mind the specialist one. Medics, Radio, Banners etc etc aren't things that should be present more than once per squad, just like sergeants.

I have no issue with the specialist restrictions. My ire is reserved specifically for nonsensical weapon restrictions/limitations/removals.

[EDIT]: And let me just say it before some bright spark jumps in here and starts going "But you're ok with a 4 Heavy Weapon limitation in Devastator Squads and this is no different!!!" or some other such false equivalency - it's not the limitations on the amount of weapons that I and many others have problems with, it's the specific weapon limitations on top of the number limitations. If you want to limit a squad to X special/heavy weapons, or even X per Y models, that's cool. But when you add the extra layer of "You can have 4, but you can't take more than one of each!" crap, that's when it loses me. Imagine if Devastator Squads were limited to one or even two of any given heavy weapon type? That would be bull gak. The Votann wargear list, as with all the others - from the crazy Death Guard list, to the Primaris Captain insanity, to Sword Brethren, Skitarii, Wyches, Kommandos (the list goes on) - are just horrible, and GW should stop doing in rather than doubling down.

And now I'm just thinking of what they're about to do to the Guard again. If ever there was a walk away/deal breaker moment, Guard losing Heavy Weapons is it for me. fething GW...

Preventing abuse of the judgment tokens ability might be one reason that GW prevented people from taking a 5-strong warrior unit on its own. Going off the points leak, there's no non-hq unit that you can buy that's below approximately 100 points. This means that the easiest way to abuse the judgment ability, a very MSU army, isn't available. I think the leaks say that the moonbuggies can grant the combat squad ability, but then you're still spending another 200-ish points on vehicles just to get combat squads which will then be protected and transported by the vehicles. There's no chaff 50-point unit that you can throw at the oppponent to force judgment token distribution.

That doesn't mean there aren't going to be much better ways to abuse that ability, and it probably would have been nicer to tone down that judgment ability and allow us to take smaller units, but that's probably a deliberate choice GW made.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I have no issue with the specialist restrictions. My ire is reserved specifically for nonsensical weapon restrictions/limitations/removals.

[EDIT]: And let me just say it before some bright spark jumps in here and starts going "But you're ok with a 4 Heavy Weapon limitation in Devastator Squads and this is no different!!!" or some other such false equivalency - it's not the limitations on the amount of weapons that I and many others have problems with, it's the specific weapon limitations on top of the number limitations. If you want to limit a squad to X special/heavy weapons, or even X per Y models, that's cool. But when you add the extra layer of "You can have 4, but you can't take more than one of each!" crap, that's when it loses me. Imagine if Devastator Squads were limited to one or even two of any given heavy weapon type? That would be bull gak.

To be fair this is your basic troop choice, so you should compared it to tacticals and not devastators. Tacticals can bring one special or heavy at 5, or one special and one heavy at 10.

The devastator equivalent can bring "pure" loadout though.