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Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






We were intentionally stress testing the system, to be fair. My actual lists are far softer, things like squads of 20 SoH reavers with power fists and barebones assault marine squads.

Basically interested in how absolutely miserable the events we signed up for at NOVA are going to be, playing 3 strangers who probably think contemptors and terminators are so super cool.

As soon as I realized how oppressive contemptors were I put the list I've been working on since last NOVA (2019...) away.
It was a Mortifactor with a talon of 3 fist/assault cannon contemptors, a dual volkite contemptor and some tactical squads to fill out troops - no RoW.
Now the same list, or using it as Fury o' the Ancients is just feels bad all around.

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
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And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
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Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





 Gert wrote:
 Crablezworth wrote:
it's not a combined arms wargame anymore, it's mary sue dreadnought hour featuring termiantors.


What are you, 12?
I think I'm done here. If you're resorting to that kind of thing for your arguments there's no point in continuing. Enjoy your game that hasn't been updated since 2019.


I guess some ghostwritten romance novel with Fabio on the cover that came out a week ago is better than the Lord of the Rings trilogy, simply by virtue of being updated more recently...
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Toofast wrote:
 Gert wrote:
 Crablezworth wrote:
it's not a combined arms wargame anymore, it's mary sue dreadnought hour featuring termiantors.


What are you, 12?
I think I'm done here. If you're resorting to that kind of thing for your arguments there's no point in continuing. Enjoy your game that hasn't been updated since 2019.


I guess some ghostwritten romance novel with Fabio on the cover that came out a week ago is better than the Lord of the Rings trilogy, simply by virtue of being updated more recently...


HH 1 was a bad game. HH 2 is dramatically better
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





@stratigo I don't agree about 1.0 being a bad game as I played quite a bit and enjoyed it. However, I played Mechanicum and my friend played Chaos Daemons so we didn't experience the same issues as the people playing marines v marines only.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The balance of HH 1 was pretty bad, not better then the current, plus it Inheritted a lot of issues from 7th like wound allocation and the annoying psychic phase. A few of those remain, cause rolling 30 saves 1 at a time for your sergeant is absolutely bad design that makes the game chuuuuug, but they toned back Death Stars and artillery parking lots, with the cost of overtuning dreadnoughts, but much less of a problem then the whole “you took more then min infantry? Moron” that was the last edition.

But the biggest boon by far is reactions. It makes the reactive turn exciting and adds a lot of tactical thinking into the game
   
Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

Hey guys, I have an issue with my french version of the rules. My liber says that a Paragon Blade is murderous strike (6+) but battlescribe says it is murderous strike (5+). Is it a flaw in my libers or in battlescribe ?
Thanks !

   
Made in au
Fixture of Dakka





Melbourne

My English Liber has 6+. Battlescribe is wrong.

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Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

Thanks ! That was quick !

   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




It probably comes from the assembly instructions in the boxed set. There are unit and weapon profiles in the back, and the paragon blade is Murderous 5+ in that.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Huge Hierodule





land of 10k taxes

Is there Black Shield rule sin 2.0?

was censored by the ministry of truth 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Biloxi, MS USA

Not yet, but the Legends PDF talks about them being in a future something.

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Made in us
Huge Hierodule





land of 10k taxes

 Platuan4th wrote:
Not yet, but the Legends PDF talks about them being in a future something.

thx 4 the quick reply. Got the starter on th eway. Played 1.0 broken 1Ksons (see gallery). Want to do black shield or loyalist. Something black, but don't dig IH or RG or DA. Maybe BA.
BTW- I need the Horus Heresy Liber Astartes Loyalist Legiones to actual play don't i?

was censored by the ministry of truth 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






You need the rulebook and either the Loyalist/Traitor Liber book depending on the Legion you want to play.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





England: Newcastle

I am finding people aren’t that interested.

Mixture of, back in my day Dread had no wounds and a disdain for putting stratagems in. The usual stuff.

But closer to home, there’s a lot of enthusiasm and models being built; but almost no desire to play the game itself. I think last game I had was few month back now. I can count on one hand the number of games Ive played and I really don’t have a firm grasp of the rules. I don’t know, everyone seems far too busy to fit in these games and I can only push the point so far.


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Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






TBF life gets in the way.
I would recommend taking a look at the HH/Titanicus events FB page, it's always very active with weekenders and the such. The group I've found through that was really welcoming of newcomers and I've been to 3 of their events now with a 4th coming up at the start of December.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
I am finding people aren’t that interested.

Mixture of, back in my day Dread had no wounds and a disdain for putting stratagems in. The usual stuff.

But closer to home, there’s a lot of enthusiasm and models being built; but almost no desire to play the game itself. I think last game I had was few month back now. I can count on one hand the number of games Ive played and I really don’t have a firm grasp of the rules. I don’t know, everyone seems far too busy to fit in these games and I can only push the point so far.


Well, it's not all rose coloured glasses, stratagems being sorta forced into a game that doesn't need it is a continuing problem in more than 30k, plenty of people I know have found the explosion of stratagems in 40k was final nail in the coffin on even trying to keep current with it, they're a problem in adeptus titanicus for the same reason, there are far too many, and many are contetious and massive fun sponges, the latest AT book even sees them introducing a mechanic where both players have a whole hand of stratagem cards. I like wargames, was never a card game fan. 40k already feels like a card game with 200$ models.

The dreadnought issue is a perfect example of 2.0 just not even establishing itself as needed. 30k if it had any issues at a core level was it shared 7th issues with MC's and FMC's, this also didn't matter much outside of daemons of the ruinstorm. 2.0 for some reason decided to change a bunch of unit types in a worse direction. There is arguably a consensus that dreadnoughts were poorly handled in 2.0 and I haven't talked to a single player who hasn't had a strong opinion one way or another on how they are now in 2.0. All of that contributes to 2.0 not being that popular, it competes too much with other games. In my case, no will to learn and pay for a new ruleset that just seems worse. I can play 1.0 without having to open a new book or spend a dime. I think it's easy for everyone to bite off more than they can chew, that doesn't mean plenty of people didn't just leave their starters half built after the initial excitement wore off. Some understandably may still be waiting for their legios specific heads to be released.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/11/03 16:15:49


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







 Crablezworth wrote:
Some understandably may still be waiting for their legios specific heads to be released.


Or any non-vehicle unit besides bolter marines.

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Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut





There is more wonky stuff in HH 2.0 than just Uber-Dreads. Take the speed of infantry as an example. They have a move score of 7 as opposed to a move score of 4 in 2nd 40K. Couple this with the fact that artillery can´t pound the grunts into oblivion anymore you may just as well run without transports around the board as you
don´t need the speed nor the added protection of an APC.
   
Made in au
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





 Strg Alt wrote:
There is more wonky stuff in HH 2.0 than just Uber-Dreads. Take the speed of infantry as an example. They have a move score of 7 as opposed to a move score of 4 in 2nd 40K. Couple this with the fact that artillery can´t pound the grunts into oblivion anymore you may just as well run without transports around the board as you
don´t need the speed nor the added protection of an APC.


On the APC point. Can't you move the transport half distance, disembark, move then shoot? For a unit toting rapidfire weapons it effectively doubles their move speed/threat range for the price of 35pts. Yes it's less useful for an assault unit but still a good chunk of speed for a cheap points investment. And lets you use them for mobile LOS blocking. Or use a reaction in the movement phase to plop the rhino in between an assault unit and a squishy infantry unit.

Infantry being Mv7 has benifits for the game too. Pushes it more towards a movement game than just a stand still and shoot one. Firelanes become important, but if you want to move through cover suddenly your movement stat becomes 5 for one to even three phases.
   
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San Jose, CA

cody.d. wrote:


On the APC point. Can't you move the transport half distance, disembark, move then shoot? For a unit toting rapidfire weapons it effectively doubles their move speed/threat range for the price of 35pts. Yes it's less useful for an assault unit but still a good chunk of speed for a cheap points investment. And lets you use them for mobile LOS blocking. Or use a reaction in the movement phase to plop the rhino in between an assault unit and a squishy infantry unit.

Infantry being Mv7 has benifits for the game too. Pushes it more towards a movement game than just a stand still and shoot one. Firelanes become important, but if you want to move through cover suddenly your movement stat becomes 5 for one to even three phases.


Yup, did it with my sunkillers last night(needed to get them in a building).

I like the game overall and there are only a couple things that irk me, but they're easily houseruled.
   
Made in au
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





Care to share what you like and dislike so far?

For me the pros are one part nostaligia and one part the sensation that my choices matter from turn to turn. And a bit of fun maneuvering about, like just running headlong at the enemy or standing in the back won't work in many situations, how you face your tanks making a difference for their output and durability. All very fun to me.

Oh and despite having the same basic toolbox, lots of variety in how you build your list. 2 armies of the same legion may look very, very different depending on the player.

The cons are probably just dreads feeling a little too tough. Too durable for their points.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

 Strg Alt wrote:
There is more wonky stuff in HH 2.0 than just Uber-Dreads. Take the speed of infantry as an example. They have a move score of 7 as opposed to a move score of 4 in 2nd 40K. Couple this with the fact that artillery can´t pound the grunts into oblivion anymore you may just as well run without transports around the board as you
don´t need the speed nor the added protection of an APC.


The bespoke movement stat stuff again not a fan, I like the integers of 6 inches more.


They previewed the whirlwind scorpius, which in 1.0 is fantastic, but in 2.0 warcom couldn't even get the rules right. but it's like ap4 or something useless. Also rumours of a plastic typhon, but again seems like only something one must have in 1.0.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Crablezworth wrote:
Some understandably may still be waiting for their legios specific heads to be released.


Or any non-vehicle unit besides bolter marines.


Assault marines and boarding marines would be nice.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/11/04 13:46:22


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






 Crablezworth wrote:
 Strg Alt wrote:
There is more wonky stuff in HH 2.0 than just Uber-Dreads. Take the speed of infantry as an example. They have a move score of 7 as opposed to a move score of 4 in 2nd 40K. Couple this with the fact that artillery can´t pound the grunts into oblivion anymore you may just as well run without transports around the board as you
don´t need the speed nor the added protection of an APC.


The bespoke movement stat stuff again not a fan, I like the integers of 6 inches more.


They previewed the whirlwind scorpius, which in 1.0 is fantastic, but in 2.0 warcom couldn't even get the rules right. but it's like ap4 or something useless. Also rumours of a plastic typhon, but again seems like only something one must have in 1.0.


It's AP4 but gets Rending (4+) if it doesn't move, so it's actually decent, I guess? Indirect Large Blast S8 that's AP2 half the time and pins. Sure. It's still a vehicle, so I'm not keen on it, but whatever floats other peoples' boats. It's probably the least useless artillery of the bunch.

When 2.0 first came out and everything had Pinning, I got excited that pinning/suppression/etc would be valuable and powerful. Turns out when half of the real units you're actually facing are Dreadnoughts or Stubborn Terminators, Pinning is exactly as useless as it always was. Sad!

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame

And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming
And make YouTube videos for that sometimes!
https://www.youtube.com/@tableitgaming 
   
Made in gb
Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot





Pinning is really good.. there's plenty of non-dread non terminator units out there. Plus even terminators have a fairly decent chance of getting pinned.

Also re the Scorpius. If anyone thinks Its bad I'm going to assume you haven't played with it. It's a very strong unit and incredibly cost effective to boot.

Hoping for the rest of the sicarans and a vindicator kit soon

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/11/06 10:54:09


 
   
Made in au
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





Leadership in general needs to be taken into account. Took a unit of skyhunters, lost 2 models then fled off the board over a couple turns. I will be taking at least a centurion with that unit from now on for that ld 9 or 10.

Also, took a retinue jump pack command squad with Eidelon. If you can manage to keep them from getting shot to death they are a fantastic hammer unit, able to bully veterans, terminators with prarters and more. Sure it costs about 500pts but it's a lot of power with line for objective capturing. Also, damn getting the 3rd legion reaction off can turn a combat around.
   
Made in us
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge




cody.d. wrote:

Also, took a retinue jump pack command squad with Eidelon. If you can manage to keep them from getting shot to death they are a fantastic hammer unit, able to bully veterans, terminators with prarters and more. Sure it costs about 500pts but it's a lot of power with line for objective capturing. Also, damn getting the 3rd legion reaction off can turn a combat around.


A buddy of mine took that for his Blood Angels. Used the current 40k Blood Angel models because the jump packs scream 30k and had them armed with Perdition Blades. Brutal 2 power weapons slaughter other vets pretty quick.
   
Made in ca
Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions






The editions are the same. They both have the same obvious large imbalances, the same need of a faq to fix/clarify broken mechanics, the same back burner feel compared to 40k and aos. They're basically two sides to the same coin, with preference for the minutia being the deciding factor.

Myself, I don't like the semi-realized, reactionary, balance changes. The Scorpius is an example of blasts being weakened, but still viable; the Medusa, arquitor, basilisk, whirlwind, etc...are not. Outriders got consigned to the pit while scimitars excel. I'll always prefer the edition where more of my collection is viable, even though I do have fun playing 2nd.

A buddy of mine took that for his Blood Angels. Used the current 40k Blood Angel models because the jump packs scream 30k and had them armed with Perdition Blades. Brutal 2 power weapons slaughter other vets pretty quick


You can't actually do that. You have to be a character to get a perdition weapon, and command squads thankfully aren't characters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/11/26 23:48:28


5,000 Raven Guard
3,000 Night Lords  
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

 Skimask Mohawk wrote:
The editions are the same. They both have the same obvious large imbalances, the same need of a faq to fix/clarify broken mechanics, the same back burner feel compared to 40k and aos. They're basically two sides to the same coin, with preference for the minutia being the deciding factor.

Myself, I don't like the semi-realized, reactionary, balance changes. The Scorpius is an example of blasts being weakened, but still viable; the Medusa, arquitor, basilisk, whirlwind, etc...are not. Outriders got consigned to the pit while scimitars excel. I'll always prefer the edition where more of my collection is viable, even though I do have fun playing 2nd.


Ya, so far 2nd makes me nostalgic for 1st. Big ole pizza pies of death with nice AP.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in au
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





 Skimask Mohawk wrote:
The editions are the same. They both have the same obvious large imbalances, the same need of a faq to fix/clarify broken mechanics, the same back burner feel compared to 40k and aos. They're basically two sides to the same coin, with preference for the minutia being the deciding factor.

Myself, I don't like the semi-realized, reactionary, balance changes. The Scorpius is an example of blasts being weakened, but still viable; the Medusa, arquitor, basilisk, whirlwind, etc...are not. Outriders got consigned to the pit while scimitars excel. I'll always prefer the edition where more of my collection is viable, even though I do have fun playing 2nd.


There are some jank reactions for sure. Angron used the world eaters to charge a unit in the shooting phase and get engaged. I charged a unit of custodes in to try and take him out but they got slaughtered by a lot of murderous strike axes to the face before they got to swing. Angron didn't even allocate any attacks to the unit he charged. (we checked and I couldn't find a single rule that said he had to.) But eventually the chump got cheap shooted by a unit of 3 solar auxilia. So that was worth a good laugh.

Also multple combats frequently work out in the custodes favour, get the unit engaged with a nemisis unit and they can crush another unit with those extra attacks.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





England: Newcastle

Was after some advice.

1) How do you counter a Mass jump/drop assault?

2) How do you deal with recon marines?

Currently I am in a bit of a pickle because, I know the answer is thirty lascannons with augury scanners or ten dreadnoughts. But I’ve more or less tailored all my Legions to be different. My Ultra are like that (not ten dreads admittedly). Sons of Horus is a mixture of tanks and terminator. EC is all about rapid assault from Storm Eagles. Imperial Fist are a short range shooting army with a CC punch. Death Guard it’s similar but more Chem flamers. Basically they don’t all have heavy weapon squads that you wouldn’t want to give a free turn of shooting to.

Basically the way it’s been going is, drop assault comes, clears the chaff and then they can just mob my elite close combat units. Just an overwhelming Alpha strike that can kill 2k in a turn. Like we’re talking, 30 assault marines, ten raptors, ten man command squad with praetor, leviathan and ten terminators from two Dreadclaws. There just isn’t enough firepower to dent the assault. Even if my whole back line fired all their bolters and rotor guns we’re only talking a handful of marines when I need to delete the enemy army or cause so much damage that my Elite units don’t get mobbed.

The recon marines just have the ability to delete my tanks and I feel the only way to move them is to send a deathstar at them. I haven’t even had to deal with a lascannon squads AT firepower because these snipers seem just as dangerous. Like I am not kidding, land raiders gone from a single squad; hull points.



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