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Made in us
Been Around the Block







Hi there.

I'm looking for some recommendations for Ancient/Medieval/Musket/Pre-World War 1 miniature wargames. You're probably wondering what I mean by the first half of that title. Here's an explanation. You know how Bolt Action or Flames of War are probably the most popular/well-known/financially successful examples of WW1 to Modern Wargames that people think of? I'm looking for an ancient to medieval wargame that's basically the historical wargaming equivalent to franchises like Games Workshop's Warhammer 40,000, Warhammer Fantasy Battles, Warhammer: Age of Sigmar, The Hobbit/Lord of the Rings, GW's Specialist Games, Privateer Press's Warmachines & Hordes, Corvus Belli's Infinity, Atomic Mass Games' Star Wars & Marvel: Crisis Protocol, and Mantic Miniature's Kings of War which are popular enough to have their own dedicated subforums within this website. Not saying that popularity automatically makes something good. I'm just saying that when I think of WW1 to modern wargaming brands I immediately think of Flames of War and Bolt Action.

Two pre-modern historical wargaming brands that interest me are Warhammer Ancient Battles (this one seems dead) and L'Art de la Guerre. But as I said, I'm looking for recommendations so feel free to list as many as you would like to. With that out of the way, take care and have a good weekend.
   
Made in it
Osprey Reader




London

OK... so, where to start...

First up there is 'no' real equivalent to those sets for pre-WW1 gaming. No set or publishing company has anything even close to that combination of "market share in this niche", production values, and "all you need from one supplier" that almost any of the companies you cite have got - and furthermore there's not really any meaningfully sized competition/organised play scene (other than for "Ancients") in pre-WW1 either.

WAB is to all intents and purposes dead - no new books, rules, updates in almost decades, and whilst there are still people enjoying playing it, there is and will be no further publication of new stuff ...and no support means that the player pool is some of the same dudes who played originally plus a few recent folks who have the skills of archeologists to dig out old 2nd hand copies. Doesn't mean its not a good set, but it's more Norwegian Blue than anything. There are a couple of knock-off successor sets but honestly they have not really got any serious traction - in part IMHO as mass-battle ancients rules development has moved on towards simulating higher level command and control issues, and set against them WAB now can look like a very old fashioned bottom-up combat simulation using old school mechanics in a world that has moved on from both of those things many years ago

ADLG is the most popular competition-grade ancients set worldwide right now, but even so its hardly in the Bolt Action or FoW marketing juggernaught size. It only covers part of pre-WW1, in doing the textbook ancients thing of 3000BC ("Egyptians!") to 1500AD ("Knights!"). It is 'live' and has got an active scene with author support. But the guy who publishes it doesn't make any figures, its just a ruleset - which is absoluetly not an issue in this era, as finding your own figures/paingting guides etc is part of the attraction of this type and era of rules

Beyond those, there is a reasonable shout to suggest (Bolt Actions') Warlord Games Hail Ceasar has sold a lot of copies, and Warlord do make a fairly small range of 28mm metal and plastic figures - but there are usually better IMHO options out there from any number of manufacturers, and in other scales, so ... thats sort of irrelevant to why you'd choose those rules. HC isn't a competition set - its more a not-that-loose-ish framework for games between consenting adults, and the mechanics are simple enough to house-rule whatever you want without breaking it. It always comes up as popular in surveys on forums and FB, but I'm struggling to ever remember seeing anyone ever play it - there are few batreps out there too, so I have a suspicion its s set that people have bought and liked but don't play all that often. The lack of ability to stage points-based pickup games at a club or FLGS does skew its players to one end of the wargames universe too

Hope that helps.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/10 15:36:15


www.madaxeman.com
See more of this rubbish there 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block







 themadaxeman wrote:
OK... so, where to start...

First up there is 'no' real equivalent to those sets for pre-WW1 gaming. No set or publishing company has anything even close to that combination of "market share in this niche", production values, and "all you need from one supplier" that almost any of the companies you cite have got - and furthermore there's not really any meaningfully sized competition/organised play scene (other than for "Ancients") in pre-WW1 either.

WAB is to all intents and purposes dead - no new books, rules, updates in almost decades, and whilst there are still people enjoying playing it, there is and will be no further publication of new stuff ...and no support means that the player pool is some of the same dudes who played originally plus a few recent folks who have the skills of archeologists to dig out old 2nd hand copies. Doesn't mean its not a good set, but it's more Norwegian Blue than anything. There are a couple of knock-off successor sets but honestly they have not really got any serious traction - in part IMHO as mass-battle ancients rules development has moved on towards simulating higher level command and control issues, and set against them WAB now can look like a very old fashioned bottom-up combat simulation using old school mechanics in a world that has moved on from both of those things many years ago

ADLG is the most popular competition-grade ancients set worldwide right now, but even so its hardly in the Bolt Action or FoW marketing juggernaught size. It only covers part of pre-WW1, in doing the textbook ancients thing of 3000BC ("Egyptians!") to 1500AD ("Knights!"). It is 'live' and has got an active scene with author support. But the guy who publishes it doesn't make any figures, its just a ruleset - which is absoluetly not an issue in this era, as finding your own figures/paingting guides etc is part of the attraction of this type and era of rules

Beyond those, there is a reasonable shout to suggest (Bolt Actions') Warlord Games Hail Ceasar has sold a lot of copies, and Warlord do make a fairly small range of 28mm metal and plastic figures - but there are usually better IMHO options out there from any number of manufacturers, and in other scales, so ... thats sort of irrelevant to why you'd choose those rules. HC isn't a competition set - its more a not-that-loose-ish framework for games between consenting adults, and the mechanics are simple enough to house-rule whatever you want without breaking it. It always comes up as popular in surveys on forums and FB, but I'm struggling to ever remember seeing anyone ever play it - there are few batreps out there too, so I have a suspicion its s set that people have bought and liked but don't play all that often. The lack of ability to stage points-based pickup games at a club or FLGS does skew its players to one end of the wargames universe too

Hope that helps.


Thanks for the input. It's a lot to take in, but the more detail in a post, the better. Hail Caesar looks interesting to me. I figured that A) ADLG was the closest this type of wargame had to a big name franchise and B) even then it wasn't on the same level of marketing juggernaut tier as Bolt Action or FoW are.

Since ADLG is more of a rule book that allows models from different companies, what model manufacturers would you recommend for ADLG?
   
Made in at
Second Story Man





Austria

for Ancient to Medieval I would say this is SAGA

core rules with supplements for the different settings cover Hannibal to the Crusades

28mm Mass-Skirmish size makes it reasonable regarding amount of models and prices
while being historical accurate enough to get people connected to the setting (and with enough Hollywood or "what people think history was" to create interest outside the history buffs)

model support from different companies with metal and plastics available for all settings and factions

it also offers the event/tournament play, something most other historical rules stay away from, as armies are created with points and it offers various universal scenario (and not just re-creations of historical events)

how popular it is depends on the region but at least here there are more players than for Bolt Action

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in ru
Death-Dealing Devastator





There are no direct counterparts to Games Workshop for pre-modern historical wargames, aside from probably Warlord (who, for all intents and purposes, are essentially historical GW). It is hard to pinpoint exactly which rules are going to be the most popular since there are niches differing in size, scale and rules complexity that divide audience into multiple small communities. I can also say from personal experience that it's extremely unlikely to find the same level of involvement and discussion concerning less popular wargames aside from some Facebook groups and rarely updated threads on random forums, which makes majority of games look dead even if that's not the case.

What ruleset is to go by depends on your preferences. There are hundreds upon hundreds of rulesets for any scale, from Warhammer's 50-80 figures up to many hundreds and down to three or four per side. What also often makes this niche distinct is that often rulemakers don't actually sell any figures, so it's hard to find everything you need in a single package from one manufacturer.

Warhammer Ancient Battles was very popular in the past, but now it is dead. There are multiple successors that tweak its ruleset to some degree like Field of Glory, Swordpoint or Clash of Empires; I am only familiar with Swordpoint. Overall, I strongly disliked it, felt clunky and sometimes outright painful to use, rules were very confusing and badly laid out.

To my knowledge, at least here Impetus is the one mass battle system that has managed to gain some traction and more or less steady stream of small tournaments. I took some interest in it, but haven't been able to get a game in yet. However, people usually play it with 15 mm figures, although it's possible to adapt it to 1:56.

Hail Ceasar, Pike&Shotte and Black Powder by Warlord seem popular enough, but I can't comment on those.

If we disregard mass battle and go down to squad-level skirmishes, then SAGA is probably the most popular "trademark" system of this scale, with its own gimmicks, figure sets (although rulewriters don't make figures by themselves, they heavily collaborate with Gripping Beast) and unqiue faction rosters and addons. It's pretty solid, but I personally don't like it because it's more of a gamey game than at least some attempt at simulation. There are untold numbers of indie rulesets from multiple companies (Infamy! Infamy! and Clash of Spears were met with enthusiasm relatively recently), which to choose will depend on preferred era and scale.

If you want a game that goes prepackaged with its own counters, cards, bags, unique unit stands and all that stuff, look no further than Mortal Gods.

There are also Osprey Wargame book series, they are usually quite simple and acessible.

I would say deciding on your preferred era and factions can make finding correct rulesets much easier or much harder deal.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2022/06/10 16:27:55


 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




The Great State of New Jersey

There aren't any, but for the musket/pre-ww1 era Black Powder comes pretty close.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in it
Osprey Reader




London

All good comments - Saga is a very solid shout as well, but being a skirmish level set is in completely a different gaming space to the mass battle sets out there.

The idea of which manufacturer is the best/recomended for "XYZ" ruleset is sort of a non-question I'm afraid. The rulesets all cover liteally hundreds (or, for 'ancients' sets, usually about 300 named different ) "historical" armies, and so no-one owns the IP and anyone can make figures for any army, and in any scale.

Mass battle is (largely but not always) 15mm, and skirmish is 28mm.

For an idea of just how many manufacturers there are out there, this is a listing of 15mm Ancients manufacturers: https://www.madaxeman.com/main/15mm_ancients_suppliers.php

You could probably pick almost any mainstream army (Imperial Romans! Medeieval Knights!) and find 20+ companies making figures in 15mm, and the same in 25/8mm - how accurate those figures are can depend on everything from personal taste to manufacturing process to what current historical research thought the guys looked like when they were originally sculpted.

So, its not a manufacturer for a ruleset, its a manufacturer for a historical army (which is ruleset agnostic)

Picking the manufacturer you prefer for the army you want to collect is one of the fun things about this part of the hobby. And unlike GW-type worlds, once your current favourite ruleset 'dies', your figures will still work for the next one that comes along.

I've got figures that have played under 4-5 different rule systems, most of which are now dead and gone, and I know people who could point to troops that have probably turned out in 10-15 different systems. A Roman legionary is a legionary in whatever system you choose... and they will all have rules for a Roman Legionary

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/06/10 22:09:08


www.madaxeman.com
See more of this rubbish there 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block







kodos wrote:for Ancient to Medieval I would say this is SAGA

core rules with supplements for the different settings cover Hannibal to the Crusades

28mm Mass-Skirmish size makes it reasonable regarding amount of models and prices
while being historical accurate enough to get people connected to the setting (and with enough Hollywood or "what people think history was" to create interest outside the history buffs)

model support from different companies with metal and plastics available for all settings and factions

it also offers the event/tournament play, something most other historical rules stay away from, as armies are created with points and it offers various universal scenario (and not just re-creations of historical events)

how popular it is depends on the region but at least here there are more players than for Bolt Action


I looked up SAGA after reading your post. It looks very interesting. On the Gripping Beast website it has an "Aetius & Arthur" section. Is the second half of that title a reference to King Arthur? Because the faction list of Britons, Franks, Goths, Huns, Mercenaries, Picts, Romans, Sassanids and Saxons reminds me of the period King Arthur supposedly would've lived in if he were real.

SgtBANZAI wrote:There are no direct counterparts to Games Workshop for pre-modern historical wargames, aside from probably Warlord (who, for all intents and purposes, are essentially historical GW). It is hard to pinpoint exactly which rules are going to be the most popular since there are niches differing in size, scale and rules complexity that divide audience into multiple small communities. I can also say from personal experience that it's extremely unlikely to find the same level of involvement and discussion concerning less popular wargames aside from some Facebook groups and rarely updated threads on random forums, which makes majority of games look dead even if that's not the case.

What ruleset is to go by depends on your preferences. There are hundreds upon hundreds of rulesets for any scale, from Warhammer's 50-80 figures up to many hundreds and down to three or four per side. What also often makes this niche distinct is that often rulemakers don't actually sell any figures, so it's hard to find everything you need in a single package from one manufacturer.

Warhammer Ancient Battles was very popular in the past, but now it is dead. There are multiple successors that tweak its ruleset to some degree like Field of Glory, Swordpoint or Clash of Empires; I am only familiar with Swordpoint. Overall, I strongly disliked it, felt clunky and sometimes outright painful to use, rules were very confusing and badly laid out.

To my knowledge, at least here Impetus is the one mass battle system that has managed to gain some traction and more or less steady stream of small tournaments. I took some interest in it, but haven't been able to get a game in yet. However, people usually play it with 15 mm figures, although it's possible to adapt it to 1:56.

Hail Ceasar, Pike&Shotte and Black Powder by Warlord seem popular enough, but I can't comment on those.

If we disregard mass battle and go down to squad-level skirmishes, then SAGA is probably the most popular "trademark" system of this scale, with its own gimmicks, figure sets (although rulewriters don't make figures by themselves, they heavily collaborate with Gripping Beast) and unqiue faction rosters and addons. It's pretty solid, but I personally don't like it because it's more of a gamey game than at least some attempt at simulation. There are untold numbers of indie rulesets from multiple companies (Infamy! Infamy! and Clash of Spears were met with enthusiasm relatively recently), which to choose will depend on preferred era and scale.

If you want a game that goes prepackaged with its own counters, cards, bags, unique unit stands and all that stuff, look no further than Mortal Gods.

There are also Osprey Wargame book series, they are usually quite simple and acessible.

I would say deciding on your preferred era and factions can make finding correct rulesets much easier or much harder deal.


chaos0xomega wrote:There aren't any, but for the musket/pre-ww1 era Black Powder comes pretty close.


I would agree with you that Warlord Games seems to be the GW of Historical Wargames. They've got a decent selection of time periods to choose from. Bolt Action, Victory at Sea, Black Powder, Black Seas, Pike & Shotte, Hail Caesar, you name it. They even got a historical fantasy wargame in the form of Mythic Americas. I hope they continue expanding into various other kinds of time periods.

themadaxeman wrote:All good comments - Saga is a very solid shout as well, but being a skirmish level set is in completely a different gaming space to the mass battle sets out there.

The idea of which manufacturer is the best/recomended for "XYZ" ruleset is sort of a non-question I'm afraid. The rulesets all cover liteally hundreds (or, for 'ancients' sets, usually about 300 named different ) "historical" armies, and so no-one owns the IP and anyone can make figures for any army, and in any scale.

Mass battle is (largely but not always) 15mm, and skirmish is 28mm.

For an idea of just how many manufacturers there are out there, this is a listing of 15mm Ancients manufacturers: https://www.madaxeman.com/main/15mm_ancients_suppliers.php

You could probably pick almost any mainstream army (Imperial Romans! Medeieval Knights!) and find 20+ companies making figures in 15mm, and the same in 25/8mm - how accurate those figures are can depend on everything from personal taste to manufacturing process to what current historical research thought the guys looked like when they were originally sculpted.

So, its not a manufacturer for a ruleset, its a manufacturer for a historical army (which is ruleset agnostic)

Picking the manufacturer you prefer for the army you want to collect is one of the fun things about this part of the hobby. And unlike GW-type worlds, once your current favourite ruleset 'dies', your figures will still work for the next one that comes along.

I've got figures that have played under 4-5 different rule systems, most of which are now dead and gone, and I know people who could point to troops that have probably turned out in 10-15 different systems. A Roman legionary is a legionary in whatever system you choose... and they will all have rules for a Roman Legionary


Thank you for answering my question to the best of your abilities. I could see it being a hard one to address because as you said, there's multiple scales/rulesets to choose from. As for which scale I would go with, I think it would be the 28mm scale. I mean, if I have to go outside that scale I would. It just seems to be one of the most common scales for wargames like Bolt Action, Infinity, Kings of War, and I think old school 40k. (Not sure if the 8th Edition scale changes affected only the space marines or if the smaller Imperial Guard units are still 28mm, so clarification on 40k's scale would be greatly appreciated.) Another brand of Historical Wargaming I recently discovered while browsing my FLGS was Deus Vult from Fireforge Games. Along with their models depicting other time periods as well.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




Lincoln, UK

I think the real question is: what interests you?

Colourful units and painting? Conversely, straightforward uniforms that you can paint easily in bulk?

A particular style of battle? Muskets or not? Even within the horse and musket period there are easily a dozen separate periods and theatres of war that are supported with lots of figures.

Any period that catches your eye? Reading some books on a period will give you a cast of thousands of characters, and dozens of scenarios. Real life is so much wilder than fiction.

You've settled on 28s, that's good. What size of battle? What size of table can you accommodate?

What's the miniature support for that period? Do you even like those minis? Does the company have a reputation for high-quality casting? Do different companies' minis look good together?

Finally - who are you playing against? People at a club? Friends at home? You may have to bring 2 armies to start persuading folks to get into a period

Once you step away from GW, the freedom of choice can be scary at first, but it can also be liberating.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2022/06/12 09:46:19


 
   
Made in ru
Death-Dealing Devastator





Agree, answering what time period interests you the most allows to get through 50% of the path on deciding which system to use.
   
Made in at
Second Story Man





Austria

 K9ofChaos wrote:

I looked up SAGA after reading your post. It looks very interesting. On the Gripping Beast website it has an "Aetius & Arthur" section. Is the second half of that title a reference to King Arthur? Because the faction list of Britons, Franks, Goths, Huns, Mercenaries, Picts, Romans, Sassanids and Saxons reminds me of the period King Arthur supposedly would've lived in if he were real
A&A was a reference to Arthur as setting between the end of the Romans in England and the time of Viking raids for first Edition (at the end they did not really know were they wanted to go with the game, and used the 2nd Edition to streamline the books and settings)
it is replaced by "Age of Invasions" in 2nd Edition and added the Age of Magic supplement to cover the mythological/fantasy setting

for 2nd Edition there are so far:
Age of Hannibal, ~300-150 BC (Carthaginians, Rome, Gauls, Greeks, Numidians and Iberians)
Age of Invasions, ~400-600 AD (Late Romans, Britons, Saxons, Goths, Huns, Picts, Franks, and Sassanide)
Age of Vikings, ~800-1100 AD (Anglo Saxons, Welsh, Normans/Bretons, Vikings, Anglo-Danes, Last Romans/Byzanz, Norse-Gaels, Irish, Pagan Rus, Scots, Carolingians and Jomsvikings)
Age of Crusade, ~1100-1300 AD (Saracens, Mutatawwi’a, Moors, Levant/Baltic Crusaders, Milites Christi, Ordenstaat, Poles, Mongols, Byzantines, Baltic Tribes, Russians/Lithuanians and Spanish)

there are more factions and the book that use BattleBoards from other Periods, like Age of Crusade has early Hungarians that use the Norman BattleBoard from Age of Vikings

the next 2 books announced are Age of Caesars and Age of Alexander

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block







Momotaro wrote:I think the real question is: what interests you?


To answer your questions one by one. A little bit of everything. Though I'll specify through further replies.

Momotaro wrote:Colourful units and painting? Conversely, straightforward uniforms that you can paint easily in bulk?


I'll be honest. I'm still pretty much a noob when it comes to wargaming. I feel confident that I could figure out/handle the building section of putting the model together. The painting, on the other hand, is the most intimidating aspect of the hobby to me. No disrespect intended to those who enjoy painting their minis. I just think that would probably be my least favorite aspect of assembling a wargame mini. I'm still interested in getting into various wargaming franchise as my post history shows. I just need to figure out how to tackle the painting issue (either hiring a 3rd party to paint for me, take painting classes at one of my FLGSs, or what have you) going forward.

Momotaro wrote:A particular style of battle? Muskets or not? Even within the horse and musket period there are easily a dozen separate periods and theatres of war that are supported with lots of figures.


I'm thinking of a little bit of everything Pre-WW1, but I'll narrow it down further. I like the idea of Warhammer Fantasy/Kings of War style mass battles with troop trays you could put all your minis on. I mainly got interested in the idea of Historical Wargaming through my interest in Mythology/History. So the historical periods with more factions that believe in polytheistic religions the better. Musket wise, The American Civil War/Battle of Waterloo Mega Sets from Warlord Games greatly interest me.

LINK 1: https://us.warlordgames.com/collections/epic-battles-american-civil-war

LINK 2: https://us.warlordgames.com/collections/epic-battles-waterloo

Momotaro wrote:Any period that catches your eye? Reading some books on a period will give you a cast of thousands of characters, and dozens of scenarios. Real life is so much wilder than fiction.


Probably the Ancient to Medieval Periods the most since they involve sword fighting and other melee weapons, the form of combat most closely associated with Mythology. I also like the selection of minis provided by Fireforge Games and Gripping Beasts. Especially since they've got Hero Units for Historical/Legendary figures you wouldn't find out of place in a game like Fate/Grand Order. Such as Harald Hardrada, El Cid, Simon de Montfort, Baldwin IV, Richard the Lionheart, Saladin, Birger Jarl, Alexander Nevsky, Subutai, Godfrey of Bouillon, Atilla the Hun, Owain ap Dyfnwal (fl. 934), Peter the Hermit, Ragnar Lothbrok, Alfred The Great, Æthelstan, William The Conqueror, Arthur Pendragon (this is where mythology and history intersect), Brodir Of Man, Maredudd Ap Owain, Macbeth, King of Scotland, Flavius Aetius, Roland (who also shows up in the "Matter of France", the French counterpart to the "Matter of Britain"/Arthurian Legend), Vagn Åkesson, Hermann von Salza, Brian Boru, Ulf the Quarrelsome, Charlemagne (Historical/Matter of France character), Cnut the Great and Kenneth MacAlpin, for example. Here's some links to the Hero Units I was talking about:

LINK 3: https://fireforge-games.com/characters-45?page=1

LINK 4: https://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/product-filter/category-tree,saga-products-1/limit,25,0/saga-unit-type,legendary+hero

Momotaro wrote:You've settled on 28s, that's good. What size of battle? What size of table can you accommodate?


28mm is the standard size for most Wargame Miniatures, right? I've also heard that there's a difference between regular 28mm and "heroic scale" 28mm, is that correct? If so, then what's the difference? I know 40k went through a bit of a scale change recently but are GW models still within the 28mm range? These pictures seem to imply that they're still relatively similar in scale to other wargames:

LINK 5: https://www.warpstonepile.com/2017/10/1-72.html

LINK 6: https://currentkick.com/sci-fi-stargrave-miniature-size-scale-comparison/

I mainly chose 28mm because that was the scale of Kings of War (Mantic Games), Bolt Action (Warlord Games), Infinity (Corvus Belli) and Death Fields (Wargames Atlantic). Which would come in handy if I wanted to do some unofficial multi-system crossover match of sorts.

Momotaro wrote:What's the miniature support for that period? Do you even like those minis? Does the company have a reputation for high-quality casting? Do different companies' minis look good together?


Other than the previously mentioned Warlord Games, Fireforge Games and Gripping Beast, there's also Wargames Atlantic Historical Focused minis. Those miniatures look interesting to me at least.

Momotaro wrote:Finally - who are you playing against? People at a club? Friends at home? You may have to bring 2 armies to start persuading folks to get into a period


Originally I was thinking of playing with friends at home for this kind of stuff, but I would definitely like to see if I could join some kind of wargaming club in the near future.

Momotaro wrote:Once you step away from GW, the freedom of choice can be scary at first, but it can also be liberating.


It's definitely a lot to take in, that's for sure. Thank you so much for helping me out so far.

SgtBANZAI wrote:Agree, answering what time period interests you the most allows to get through 50% of the path on deciding which system to use.


I'll list off a bunch of periods/conflicts/locations that interest me from a historical perspective to hopefully give a better idea of what I'm looking for:
- Golden Age of Piracy (Blackbeard, Jolly Roger, Pirate Republic, Davy Jones' Locker, The Flying Dutchman, etc. Warlord Games' "Black Seas" also interests me greatly.)
- Napoleonic Wars (Think Paradox Interactive's March of the Eagles and Total War: Napoleon)
- American Civil War (Think Paradox Interactive's Vicky 2 and 3)
- The Crusades (Think Paradox Interactive's Crusader Kings 2 and 3 and Total War: Medieval 1 and 2)
- The Viking Age
- The Barbarian Kingdoms after the Fall of Rome (Think Total War: Atilla)
- The Anglo-Saxon Heptarchy (Think Total War Saga: Thrones of Britannia)
- The Italian City States
- The Hundred Years Wars
- The Punic Wars (Think Paradox Interactive's Imperator: Rome and Total War: Rome 1 and 2)
- The Spanish Conquest of the New World (Think Paradox Interactive's Europa Universalis 4 and Total War: Empire)
- The Romance of the Three Kingdoms (Think Total War: Three Kingdoms)
- The Sengoku Period (Think Total War: Shogun 1 and 2)
- Gaelic Ireland.
- The Trojan War (Think Total War Saga: Troy)
- The Age of King Arthur and the Matter of Britain
- The Age of King Charlemagne and the Matter of France
- The Age of Julius Caesar and the Matter of Rome

kodos wrote:
 K9ofChaos wrote:

I looked up SAGA after reading your post. It looks very interesting. On the Gripping Beast website it has an "Aetius & Arthur" section. Is the second half of that title a reference to King Arthur? Because the faction list of Britons, Franks, Goths, Huns, Mercenaries, Picts, Romans, Sassanids and Saxons reminds me of the period King Arthur supposedly would've lived in if he were real
A&A was a reference to Arthur as setting between the end of the Romans in England and the time of Viking raids for first Edition (at the end they did not really know were they wanted to go with the game, and used the 2nd Edition to streamline the books and settings)
it is replaced by "Age of Invasions" in 2nd Edition and added the Age of Magic supplement to cover the mythological/fantasy setting


So where they basically considering whether or not they wanted to go full historical or create a historical fantasy game that mixed history with mythology? The latter would've been nice. But the minis still look nice either way.

kodos wrote:for 2nd Edition there are so far:
Age of Hannibal, ~300-150 BC (Carthaginians, Rome, Gauls, Greeks, Numidians and Iberians)
Age of Invasions, ~400-600 AD (Late Romans, Britons, Saxons, Goths, Huns, Picts, Franks, and Sassanide)
Age of Vikings, ~800-1100 AD (Anglo Saxons, Welsh, Normans/Bretons, Vikings, Anglo-Danes, Last Romans/Byzanz, Norse-Gaels, Irish, Pagan Rus, Scots, Carolingians and Jomsvikings)
Age of Crusade, ~1100-1300 AD (Saracens, Mutatawwi’a, Moors, Levant/Baltic Crusaders, Milites Christi, Ordenstaat, Poles, Mongols, Byzantines, Baltic Tribes, Russians/Lithuanians and Spanish)

there are more factions and the book that use BattleBoards from other Periods, like Age of Crusade has early Hungarians that use the Norman BattleBoard from Age of Vikings

the next 2 books announced are Age of Caesars and Age of Alexander


Those new book announcements got me interested. Would Age of Caesars take place after Age of Hannibal since Rome was still a Republic during the Punic Wars? Age of Alexander would obviously be at the beginning of SAGA's timeline since Alexander the Great predates Hannibal by a few hundred years. But anyways, where did you get that announcement from exactly. Do they have a news blog? By the way, thanks for the help. It's greatly appreciated.
   
Made in ru
Death-Dealing Devastator





 K9ofChaos wrote:


I'll list off a bunch of periods/conflicts/locations that interest me from a historical perspective to hopefully give a better idea of what I'm looking for:
- Golden Age of Piracy (Blackbeard, Jolly Roger, Pirate Republic, Davy Jones' Locker, The Flying Dutchman, etc. Warlord Games' "Black Seas" also interests me greatly.)


Blood&Plunder is hands down the best pirate-themed historical skirmish wargame I've ever played. The same company, Firelock Games, also has large scale 17th century marine battle game called Oak&Iron, but I don't know the specifics. Black Seas is more of late 18th - early 19th centuries.
   
Made in at
Second Story Man





Austria

 K9ofChaos wrote:
I've also heard that there's a difference between regular 28mm and "heroic scale" 28mm, is that correct? If so, then what's the difference? I know 40k went through a bit of a scale change recently but are GW models still within the 28mm range? These pictures seem to imply that they're still relatively similar in scale to other wargames:

LINK 5: https://www.warpstonepile.com/2017/10/1-72.html

LINK 6: https://currentkick.com/sci-fi-stargrave-miniature-size-scale-comparison/

I mainly chose 28mm because that was the scale of Kings of War (Mantic Games), Bolt Action (Warlord Games), Infinity (Corvus Belli) and Death Fields (Wargames Atlantic). Which would come in handy if I wanted to do some unofficial multi-system crossover match of sorts.


No, 28mm heroic and ture scale is still 28mm, just in heoric some parts of the models, like weapons, are oversized and not in scale

the main problem with 28mm being different is that some use it as "28mm = total model size" which is not a "scale" (hence all models are the same size no matter the real scale, something that GW uses, as model are similar height like the Cadians and Marines that were released at the same time) while others read it as "28mm = base to eye" so that any fancy historical headwear does not has any influence
hence 28mm base to eye = 1/56 = 32mm total model height (without headwear), were 1/72 = 25mm total model height ~22mm base to eye (hence you se the term 20mm and 25mm both used for 1/72 models)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/17 09:53:32


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in us
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MN (Currently in WY)

Well, it sounds like you are interested in a lot of areas! That is good.

If you are into Greek/Roman mythology, and want to have a few battles with that in mind, I recommend the following options:

- Of Gods and Mortals - Osprey Games
In this one, Gods and their champions are on the table along with some more historical units too.

- Mortal Gods - Footsore
This has a great starter set with Greek Hoplites. The straight game is historical, but their are options to add more fantastical elements as well. Kind of gamey with cards, chits, and dice; but a good game for the period.

- Men of Bronze/Wars of the Republic - Osprey Games
These are unit vs unit games that are historical in nature. Relatively small armies miniature wise, but scale and model agnostic. Lists that cover a variety of conflicts and has some resource management built in.

- Saga: Age of Hannibal - Firestorm Games
This game uses small units as well but uses an innovative "battle board" mechanic. It is fun, but a bit of gamey-ness to it. Easy to get "Saga" ready sets of minis but there is a lot of sub-game and rulebooks that can make it a bit confusing.

- Hail Ceasar - Warlord Games
This is a larger game where more models and bigger tables are needed. However, it has a nice push your luck mechanic with the commands. This rulebook covers a larger variety, and it dovetails nicely into the Black Powder set too. Pretty popular in the non-competitive scene too.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
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A good place to start would bea convention held by your local HMGS chapter. There's East, South, Great Lakes, Mid-West, Mid-South Heart of America, Pacific Northwest, and Pacific Southwest. There should be a variety of periods and rules to try. You might even be able to find a local club of players.

https://www.hmgsgl.org/ Links to the other chapters are on the front page.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

SAGA as 28mm skirmish. ADLG as has been covered.

If you want to use a GW ruleset there is warmaster. That covers Ancients, medieval, fantasy, WW2, Cold war and sci fi (the latter being the weakest).
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block







SgtBANZAI wrote:
 K9ofChaos wrote:


I'll list off a bunch of periods/conflicts/locations that interest me from a historical perspective to hopefully give a better idea of what I'm looking for:
- Golden Age of Piracy (Blackbeard, Jolly Roger, Pirate Republic, Davy Jones' Locker, The Flying Dutchman, etc. Warlord Games' "Black Seas" also interests me greatly.)


Blood&Plunder is hands down the best pirate-themed historical skirmish wargame I've ever played. The same company, Firelock Games, also has large scale 17th century marine battle game called Oak&Iron, but I don't know the specifics. Black Seas is more of late 18th - early 19th centuries.


Thanks for the recommendation. Going by your description of them, does Blood & Plunder and Oak & Iron cover the more iconic points in the Golden Age of Piracy?

kodos wrote:
 K9ofChaos wrote:
I've also heard that there's a difference between regular 28mm and "heroic scale" 28mm, is that correct? If so, then what's the difference? I know 40k went through a bit of a scale change recently but are GW models still within the 28mm range? These pictures seem to imply that they're still relatively similar in scale to other wargames:

LINK 5: https://www.warpstonepile.com/2017/10/1-72.html

LINK 6: https://currentkick.com/sci-fi-stargrave-miniature-size-scale-comparison/

I mainly chose 28mm because that was the scale of Kings of War (Mantic Games), Bolt Action (Warlord Games), Infinity (Corvus Belli) and Death Fields (Wargames Atlantic). Which would come in handy if I wanted to do some unofficial multi-system crossover match of sorts.


No, 28mm heroic and ture scale is still 28mm, just in heoric some parts of the models, like weapons, are oversized and not in scale

the main problem with 28mm being different is that some use it as "28mm = total model size" which is not a "scale" (hence all models are the same size no matter the real scale, something that GW uses, as model are similar height like the Cadians and Marines that were released at the same time) while others read it as "28mm = base to eye" so that any fancy historical headwear does not has any influence
hence 28mm base to eye = 1/56 = 32mm total model height (without headwear), were 1/72 = 25mm total model height ~22mm base to eye (hence you se the term 20mm and 25mm both used for 1/72 models)


Thanks for the explanation on the intricacies of 28mm minis. Either way, is 28mm considered the gold standard for wargaming mini sizes?

Easy E wrote:Well, it sounds like you are interested in a lot of areas! That is good.

If you are into Greek/Roman mythology, and want to have a few battles with that in mind, I recommend the following options:

- Of Gods and Mortals - Osprey Games
In this one, Gods and their champions are on the table along with some more historical units too.

- Mortal Gods - Footsore
This has a great starter set with Greek Hoplites. The straight game is historical, but their are options to add more fantastical elements as well. Kind of gamey with cards, chits, and dice; but a good game for the period.

- Men of Bronze/Wars of the Republic - Osprey Games
These are unit vs unit games that are historical in nature. Relatively small armies miniature wise, but scale and model agnostic. Lists that cover a variety of conflicts and has some resource management built in.

- Saga: Age of Hannibal - Firestorm Games
This game uses small units as well but uses an innovative "battle board" mechanic. It is fun, but a bit of gamey-ness to it. Easy to get "Saga" ready sets of minis but there is a lot of sub-game and rulebooks that can make it a bit confusing.

- Hail Ceasar - Warlord Games
This is a larger game where more models and bigger tables are needed. However, it has a nice push your luck mechanic with the commands. This rulebook covers a larger variety, and it dovetails nicely into the Black Powder set too. Pretty popular in the non-competitive scene too.


Thanks for the recommendations. I have a few questions though.

1. Is "Of Gods and Mortals" by Osprey Games Miniature Agnostic as well. Or does it have in-house models as well? If the former, where can I find companies that specialize in making hero unit models for Gods like Zeus, Odin, Ra, Shiva, Amaterasu or what have you?

2. Does the starter box set for "Mortal Gods" come with any models depicting the Greek Gods like Zeus, Hades or Hera in question?

3. Is "Men of Bronze/Wars of the Republic" by Osprey Games the only scale and model agnostic wargame on this list of recommendations you posted? Or is there more?

4. In regards to "Saga: Age of Hannibal" I looked up Firestorm Games on my browser and it directed me to a wargame online retailer in the UK. I thought Gripping Beast and Studio Tomahawk where the minds behind the Saga wargaming franchise. Was that a typo that meant to say "Fireforge Games" or am I mistaken on who owns the Saga wargame IP?

5. Of all the Pre-WW1 Wargames mentioned in this thread, "Hail Caesar", "Pike & Shotte", and "Black Powder" by Warlord Games, "Saga: Age of [blank]", Deus Vult by Fireforge Games, Of Gods and Mortals by Osprey Games and Wargames Atlantic's Historical line of minis interest me the most. I've seen some videos where people put their Hail Caesar minis on movement trays. Does Saga: Age of [blank], Of Gods and Mortals and Deus Vult support movement trays within their games? Or is Warlord Games the only one that bothers with movement trays for their Pre-WW1 games?

Ork-en Man wrote:A good place to start would bea convention held by your local HMGS chapter. There's East, South, Great Lakes, Mid-West, Mid-South Heart of America, Pacific Northwest, and Pacific Southwest. There should be a variety of periods and rules to try. You might even be able to find a local club of players.

https://www.hmgsgl.org/ Links to the other chapters are on the front page.


Thanks for the tips. Which one of them is the East Coast Chapter for the HMGS? Is it the one that just goes by HMGS?

The_Real_Chris wrote:SAGA as 28mm skirmish. ADLG as has been covered.

If you want to use a GW ruleset there is warmaster. That covers Ancients, medieval, fantasy, WW2, Cold war and sci fi (the latter being the weakest).


Thanks. Does SAGA support movement trays for multiple troops? Or is each model on one circular base by themselves since it's a skirmish game? Because the idea of putting multiple troops onto one square tray and deploying them all at once is appealing to me.
   
Made in ru
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

Been a while since I played but I strongly remember skirmish order for the troops…

The only ‘movement tray’ game I have played later is kings of war (faster Warhammer fantasy).

I should add one of my all time favourite games is King of the Battlefield, it is 7 years war and a fantastic game for getting historical results, needs few models and has a simple basing system.

In terms of being all encompassing from recon to battle Blücher is hard to beat.

I do have a guilty pleasure in ak47 republic first edition though.
   
Made in ru
Death-Dealing Devastator





 K9ofChaos wrote:

Thanks for the recommendation. Going by your description of them, does Blood & Plunder and Oak & Iron cover the more iconic points in the Golden Age of Piracy?


Yes. Entire 17th century - early 18th century.

 K9ofChaos wrote:
2. Does the starter box set for "Mortal Gods" come with any models depicting the Greek Gods like Zeus, Hades or Hera in question?


No, it does not, only a lot of hoplites and some light troopers (who are - aside from peltasts - generally underwhelming and pretty much useless anyway compared to Athenean archers or Thracian javelins).

Gods don't appear as models at all, but there are mythical creatures (Cyclops, Hydra, Medusa) in Mythic expansion.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/06/21 07:11:12


 
   
Made in at
Second Story Man





Austria

 K9ofChaos wrote:
Does SAGA support movement trays for multiple troops? Or is each model on one circular base by themselves since it's a skirmish game? Because the idea of putting multiple troops onto one square tray and deploying them all at once is appealing to me.

well, the bases in historical games are not that strict and you can use movement trays for any game you want that uses some kind of units (which SAGA is doing) and even if you use round or square bases is up to you

multiple models on a single base are multi-bases and usually found in Rank&File games, how they are done depends on the need of the rules, as if you need to change formation during the game, multiple bases per unit are used, be 4, 6 or 1 model per base is up to personal preference

 K9ofChaos wrote:
Either way, is 28mm considered the gold standard for wargaming mini sizes?
kind off, for most people its 28mm for Skirmish/Single model games and 10/12mm for Rank&File (as more miniatures per base looks more impressive for armies) but because most models are available in 28mm those are used for R&F as well

PS:
 K9ofChaos wrote:
 Easy E wrote:

- Saga: Age of Hannibal - Firestorm Games

In regards to "Saga: Age of Hannibal" I looked up Firestorm Games on my browser and it directed me to a wargame online retailer in the UK. I thought Gripping Beast and Studio Tomahawk where the minds behind the Saga wargaming franchise. Was that a typo that meant to say "Fireforge Games" or am I mistaken on who owns the Saga wargame IP?

SAGA is from Studio Tomahawk, it is a rules only game, Gripping Beast just makes starter sets that fit the SAGA rules

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/21 08:27:30


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in ca
Grumpy Longbeard





Canada

On the original post: I'm going to say DBA.
It's the ever popular and ubiquitous game that might not have the best rules, but it's where almost everyone started and most people are familiar with it.
The main reason to bring it up is that it is a wonderful introduction to ancients wargaming.
It needs the least stuff and is fairly easy to start and learn if you can find someone to show you.
Most wargamers move on from DBA to rules with more figures, but can still play DBA if asked. There are loads of other rulesets and they all try to do the same thing (simulate ancient battles) and are largely interchangeable to be frank (most people have a preference though).
The best way to start is to find local players to introduce you and start with what they are playing, your interests are quite broad and you might as well start there and branch out when you are more seasoned.

What might help make sense of things is to point out that generally speaking* fantasy/Sci-Fi wargames and historical wargames are the result of different approaches to the wargaming hobby.
It is common for fantasy/Sci-Fi wargames to be part of a "system" that is offered as a package of products. The models, rules, lore, marketing and community engagement come from the company that produces the game. One then decides if they want to buy into that system and take part on those terms.
Historical wargamers start with deciding to take part and figure out the rest on their own terms. We're already interested in history and recreating battles. Then collect figures that have the price vs quality and detail vs number compromise that you prefer. Then find rules that work with your figures, rather than buying the models that the rules dictate (we have settled on a few conventions and usual ways of doing thing like base sizes though).

K9ofChaos wrote:...is 28mm considered the gold standard for wargaming mini sizes?

There isn't really a "gold standard". 28mm might be the most common, but that's not necessarily what matters.
Scale is just how we get enough soldiers to represent what we want to wargame into a manageable space. Each scale has it's own advantages; usually (but not limited to a trade off between number of figures and detail).
It's about choosing the right scale for what you're doing.

For example: I like 28mm for fantasy wargaming where part of the point is showing the fantastical battle and the cool things I brought to it. The character of individual models and the heroics of the heroes those models represent is something I want as part of the gaming experience.
I use 15mm for historical though, because I want to simulate a battle and have a table with what looks like armies. I am more concerned with the overall effect than individual models.

*As in: generalisation that mostly true even though there are companies like Warlord and fantasy games that assume you have a dusty collection for no particular reason.
There is definite plenty of fuzzy grey area and companies offering a bit of both.

Nightstalkers Dwarfs
GASLANDS!
Holy Roman Empire  
   
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The_Real_Chris wrote:Been a while since I played but I strongly remember skirmish order for the troops…

The only ‘movement tray’ game I have played later is kings of war (faster Warhammer fantasy).

I should add one of my all time favourite games is King of the Battlefield, it is 7 years war and a fantastic game for getting historical results, needs few models and has a simple basing system.

In terms of being all encompassing from recon to battle Blücher is hard to beat.

I do have a guilty pleasure in ak47 republic first edition though.


Speaking of movement tray/Kings of War/Warhammer Fantasy. Another historical ruleset that interests me is Kings of War Historical: https://www.manticgames.com/games/kings-of-war/kings-of-war-historical/

I heard that they were in their 3rd Edition so far back when I visited one of my FLGS locations. But I was wondering. Does Mantic Games have any plans for bringing their historical supplement into 3rd Edition anytime soon?

SgtBANZAI wrote:
 K9ofChaos wrote:

Thanks for the recommendation. Going by your description of them, does Blood & Plunder and Oak & Iron cover the more iconic points in the Golden Age of Piracy?


Yes. Entire 17th century - early 18th century.

 K9ofChaos wrote:
2. Does the starter box set for "Mortal Gods" come with any models depicting the Greek Gods like Zeus, Hades or Hera in question?


No, it does not, only a lot of hoplites and some light troopers (who are - aside from peltasts - generally underwhelming and pretty much useless anyway compared to Athenean archers or Thracian javelins).

Gods don't appear as models at all, but there are mythical creatures (Cyclops, Hydra, Medusa) in Mythic expansion.


Alright. Thanks for the input. Mortal Gods kind of reminds me of the "Starship Samurai" board game/wargame hybrid. It definitely looks cool, that's for sure.

kodos wrote:
 K9ofChaos wrote:
Does SAGA support movement trays for multiple troops? Or is each model on one circular base by themselves since it's a skirmish game? Because the idea of putting multiple troops onto one square tray and deploying them all at once is appealing to me.

well, the bases in historical games are not that strict and you can use movement trays for any game you want that uses some kind of units (which SAGA is doing) and even if you use round or square bases is up to you

multiple models on a single base are multi-bases and usually found in Rank&File games, how they are done depends on the need of the rules, as if you need to change formation during the game, multiple bases per unit are used, be 4, 6 or 1 model per base is up to personal preference

 K9ofChaos wrote:
Either way, is 28mm considered the gold standard for wargaming mini sizes?
kind off, for most people its 28mm for Skirmish/Single model games and 10/12mm for Rank&File (as more miniatures per base looks more impressive for armies) but because most models are available in 28mm those are used for R&F as well

PS:
 K9ofChaos wrote:
 Easy E wrote:

- Saga: Age of Hannibal - Firestorm Games

In regards to "Saga: Age of Hannibal" I looked up Firestorm Games on my browser and it directed me to a wargame online retailer in the UK. I thought Gripping Beast and Studio Tomahawk where the minds behind the Saga wargaming franchise. Was that a typo that meant to say "Fireforge Games" or am I mistaken on who owns the Saga wargame IP?

SAGA is from Studio Tomahawk, it is a rules only game, Gripping Beast just makes starter sets that fit the SAGA rules



Thanks for clearing up my confusion on who exactly owns SAGA as a company. It's also nice to know that you can do some customization with the bases of your models if you want to add them in a troop tray or just put them on a regular circular tray.

DarkBlack wrote:On the original post: I'm going to say DBA.
It's the ever popular and ubiquitous game that might not have the best rules, but it's where almost everyone started and most people are familiar with it.
The main reason to bring it up is that it is a wonderful introduction to ancients wargaming.
It needs the least stuff and is fairly easy to start and learn if you can find someone to show you.
Most wargamers move on from DBA to rules with more figures, but can still play DBA if asked. There are loads of other rulesets and they all try to do the same thing (simulate ancient battles) and are largely interchangeable to be frank (most people have a preference though).
The best way to start is to find local players to introduce you and start with what they are playing, your interests are quite broad and you might as well start there and branch out when you are more seasoned.

What might help make sense of things is to point out that generally speaking* fantasy/Sci-Fi wargames and historical wargames are the result of different approaches to the wargaming hobby.
It is common for fantasy/Sci-Fi wargames to be part of a "system" that is offered as a package of products. The models, rules, lore, marketing and community engagement come from the company that produces the game. One then decides if they want to buy into that system and take part on those terms.
Historical wargamers start with deciding to take part and figure out the rest on their own terms. We're already interested in history and recreating battles. Then collect figures that have the price vs quality and detail vs number compromise that you prefer. Then find rules that work with your figures, rather than buying the models that the rules dictate (we have settled on a few conventions and usual ways of doing thing like base sizes though).

K9ofChaos wrote:...is 28mm considered the gold standard for wargaming mini sizes?

There isn't really a "gold standard". 28mm might be the most common, but that's not necessarily what matters.
Scale is just how we get enough soldiers to represent what we want to wargame into a manageable space. Each scale has it's own advantages; usually (but not limited to a trade off between number of figures and detail).
It's about choosing the right scale for what you're doing.

For example: I like 28mm for fantasy wargaming where part of the point is showing the fantastical battle and the cool things I brought to it. The character of individual models and the heroics of the heroes those models represent is something I want as part of the gaming experience.
I use 15mm for historical though, because I want to simulate a battle and have a table with what looks like armies. I am more concerned with the overall effect than individual models.

*As in: generalisation that mostly true even though there are companies like Warlord and fantasy games that assume you have a dusty collection for no particular reason.
There is definite plenty of fuzzy grey area and companies offering a bit of both.


DBA definitely sounds interesting. But as you and others in this thread said, my best bet is to find some kind of wargaming club within my area that can show me how things are done. Which is definitely something I've been thinking about for a while now.
   
Made in at
Second Story Man





Austria

 K9ofChaos wrote:

Speaking of movement tray/Kings of War/Warhammer Fantasy. Another historical ruleset that interests me is Kings of War Historical: https://www.manticgames.com/games/kings-of-war/kings-of-war-historical/

I heard that they were in their 3rd Edition so far back when I visited one of my FLGS locations. But I was wondering. Does Mantic Games have any plans for bringing their historical supplement into 3rd Edition anytime soon?

KoW-Hisorical is not a supplement but a stand alone book based on KoW 2nd Edition

There are no plans so far to make a historical supplement for 3rd as the Kingdoms of Men Army list fulfils the need to field historical themed armies in KoW.
And doing another stand alone book was ruled out as the first one was not received well (for KoW community because it was not really balanced with the fantasy armies, and for the historical community it was to broad and not detailed enough)

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Thanks for clarifying on the owner of Saga!

1. You asked about miniature lines for Of Gods and Mortals, and NorthStar has a limited range for some heroes and gods. However, for the most part you are finding or converting up your own, which can be a bit of a downer.

2. Mortal Gods has not "Gods" in it, but you can add some mythical elements into the game with amazons, satyrs, priests, etc.

I think others have answered your other questions before I could return and respond.

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State of Jefferson

K9,

I dont think it has been mentioned but there is one game that resonates still through out divisional ancients to medieval play and that is De Bellis Antiquitatis. It has evolved indirectly to the newer and even more popular Arte De La Guerre (ADLG) mentioned several times above. If i had to start a group on ancients or medievals, ADLG would definitely be where i would start - 100%. It is most commonly played at 15mm. It is all in one book. Spans millenia of combat and is designed for competitive play. The terrain rules are tight and there is a game-within-a-game with terrain placement at the beginning. Moving out of the medieval time period, most people will be familiar with the mechanics of "Black Powder" by warlord. Personally, have been drawn to games written by Sam Mustafa to cover this period in the form of "Longstreet" (ACW) and "LaSalle" (Napoleonic). These games are very easy to learn and have novel mechanics. LaSalle, all that is needed is the main book and access to free pdf army builder. Longstreet requires two decks of custom cards and rulebook. Another popular system for ACW that has a bit more crunch than Longstreet is "Across a deadly Field." If i were buying new pre-WW1 systems, heres my shopping list:

Ancient through medieval:
- Arte de la Guerre (new Edition)
- Assorted minis.

18th -19th Centuries:
- Warlord's Waterloo Epic Boxed set for the minis and included black powder rules.
- LaSalle by Sam Mustaffa (definite purchase)
- Warlord's Gettysburg Epic Boxed set for the minis and included black powder rules.
- Longstreet by Mustaffa or
- Across a Deadly Field

So youre missing about 300 years here. But, black powder, hail caesar, and pike n' shot are almost identical games. If you know one, you know them all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/10 17:02:43


 
   
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander





I'm late to this discussion, but I think it's worth mentioning that when it comes to pre-WW2 games (and even with WW2 games) I think your local scene matters far more than any one ruleset being overridingly popular.

People have mentioned there's no GW-equivalent prior to WW2, but this also means that stores and clubs have less expectations placed on them to run a certain game just because "everyone else plays it" they way many do 40k/AoS/BA/FoW.

Your best bet is to stick your head in with local groups you'd be potentially playing with and see what they're playing.

   
 
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