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We've been playing newcromunda a lot these last few weeks and months and having a blast.

Recently came across the oldcromunda rules and read into them and found them very refreshing and reminded me a lot of the 'classic' 40k rules I played by.

Anyway I'm tempted to bring these rules to the table and run a few games/campaign of hybridcromunda but thought as well.to see what the wider communities thoughts were.

Which is better?

Oldcromunda, and why?.
Newcromunda, and why?
Hybridcromunda, and why?

Yes the classic Necromunda will remind a lot of earlier 40k as it was essentially an expansion on the 2nd edition rules! You could definitely play 40k back then and jump into Necromunda with very little difficulty.

I am going to sit on the fence and say I prefer a hybrid version of the two sets of rules, I think they both have their strengths. I'm also very fortunate that my group let me set the rules and are happy to play (you would obviously have more difficulty doing this as with a group of people you don't know well, who would have to make a leap of faith that the rules you are using are fair!)

For the new system I like the alternative activations, as it keeps both players engaged and for a skirmish game introduces a lot more flow. So for the sake of simplicity we are using the 'main' mechanics and skill options from the new game, with the Yaktribe suggested skill amendments (just blunts the edge off the few of the more imbalanced ones). So we can all use the new miniatures and armaments we use the new gang rosters and wargear charts also.
From the old game we are using the pre and post-game system, scenario selection, territories and income collection and injuries; this is because I found the balancing/handicap system of the new game to be inferior, there is much more changes of gangs being successful in a few games and then running away with it. So, using an adapted skill advancement tree (which makes it much less likely to have T6 Goliaths stomping around the table after a few games) it moves away from the tendency to min-max units, and forces players to use non-optimised skills (although if you are lucky you can sometimes choose).
Finally we only use Tactics cards as a handicap (for a big gang imbalance) and Hired Guns are made available periodically by the Arbitrator.

I've got some more details on the campaign website here if you are interested! (Under the campaign rules link)
https://sumocatretro.wixsite.com/sump-dwellers/rules-play-aids

I like parts of the new system, but I much prefer the old setting and themes. It was more your guys and your turf, trying to eke out a living with the little you had instead of high tech house kill teams.

I might be a "little" biased, because I played Oldmunda back in the day and restarted it after Shadow War: Armageddon came out.

I was hyped for the new one as everyone else, but then it got so many thing backwards, like fixed ganger loadouts, initial 2D terrain only release etc... The biggest flaw for me is the shift to highly unique factions - the whole idea of gangs fighting over turf using entirely different weaponry and not knowing how to utilise spoils of war is just not 'munda for me. Factions/races belong to 40K, gangs are just bunch of thugs with a common goal. Trait availability was enough to accommodate different playstyles. Even old Outcast gangs had much more in common with the rest of factions that basic houses have now. So I stayed with the old one at first, and then... we all stayed with the old one, period.

Maybe it's nostalgia, but I also think that the old Necro and 40k B&W books were so much better. Necro book itself was always a huge part of pre/post game sequences - not only the rules, but all those illustrations and layout, they just have this unique mood to them, so even when just flipping through to look up a rule or a cost I get immersed deeper. I don't get that with modern books.

That said, and me being me, I have made a lot of custom tweaks to the original, mostly to adjust it to campaigns that only involve 2-4 players. One example is capture and ransom mechanics, it just led to "feel bad" moments, so we wrote fixed rules instead of free-form negotiations. But we stick with the original 2nd ed IGOUGO, it always worked well enough in the game of this size.

One last thing, not rules related - new models, with all their technical greatness, just lack this goofy, crooked aesthetics the old ones had.

So, it's Oldmunda all the way for me.

I have a 250 page custom build of Oldcromunda, so...

While it's been 20+ yrs since I played the original, I like parts of the new one but often kinda want the old version.

Op here - thanks all!

I'll be honest - I prefer the 'flow' of the old rules. Charge first, move phase, shoot phase, fight, clean-up. I find some of the older rules are cleaner - shots to hit of a 6 trigger the gun checks, not rolling a completely separate dice and I much preferred how combat is resolved.

I like the single vastly shorter weapons list and I like the 'common' profiles - though it is a shame goliath can't be t4, but hey, never mind. I did feel in newcromunda that there were too many weapons with trivially minor rules variations (on a 6, x happens) that really could be compressed into a 'heavy ccw' - it is hugely bloated for, imo, very little 'real' value. We play on Friday nights I don't want a game that's too technically demanding.

That said, sone things in newcromunda are better. Experience seems cleaner. I'd rather a variation of the current system to the random exp of the old - for all the 'character' it feels messy. One other thing I like is the modern distinction between las and auto- las is easier to handle and more reliable, auto rolls d3 to wound (harder to handle but possibly more damage) whereas older pistols had the las as being less accurate at long range but easier to reload.

I'm.building a few 'new' kustom teams right now for newcromunda - some enforcers, wyld hunter themed escher and a mechanicus themed cyborg gang (I'll put up pictures when these ones are done because it's a big project). My group is excited about the idea of oldcromunda and I think it'll be more of a hit with them than the new version.

If anyone has pdf's of their homebrews, I'd dearly love to see what you have done.

The new system has a lot more done for it in a glossy way. But does have glaring flaws. The excuse of a GM to fix poor design and costing decisions (automatic assault grenade launcher and co looking at you) and the card system is rubbish. A bizarre mix of cards that aren't in stock normally.

Goonhammer have a better advancement system as the game as written rewards stats over skills when advancing.

Hybridcromunda, because while I saw the release of both editions I haven't played neither of them. Well, I gave the newer edition's Ambot Hunt a whirl with the fan compendium(cheers lads), and sadly found the rules a little bit heavy.

With Stargrave I don't feel the need to go beyond the models for Necromunda.

Deadnight wrote:

I like the single vastly shorter weapons list and I like the 'common' profiles - though it is a shame goliath can't be t4, but hey, never mind. I did feel in newcromunda that there were too many weapons with trivially minor rules variations (on a 6, x happens) that really could be compressed into a 'heavy ccw' - it is hugely bloated for, imo, very little 'real' value. We play on Friday nights I don't want a game that's too technically demanding.

It was nice when you could memorize the most common weapons that were used almost all the time. I think there are something like 16 different profiles for auto-pistol now. Not counting duplicates like scavenged & reclaimed. It feels like GW has some sort of design principle that new stuff MUST have new weapon profiles. Like re-using existing weapon profiles would lower sales or something? I found the latest squat 'ironhead' variants kinda dull, it's basically adding rapid fire (+1) to all the existing weapon profiles. At least they're not adding completely new stuff, but it means they can continue to 'expand' for quite a while. We got ironhead boltguns and autoguns. Next book can have ironhead lasguns. And next book after that ironhead shotgun. And what's up with that ironhead meltagun? It used to be the ultimate deadly weapon. Now it got rapid fire...

For me it's stupid, it's what it is. The need to have a dozen versions of the fething same weapon baffles me.

You really want to have variations on a gun? Introduce weapon templates (scavenged, master-crafted, what have you) and be fething done with it.

If you add new weapons, let them be actually, meaningfully different weapons.

This is a gang skirmish game, FFS. We don't need for the list of weapons to be a hundred times over bigger than the number of minis you can have in a gang.

Fair - a couple of versions is fine. A regular bolter and a 'marksman' model with rending or something like that is fine but it can very quickly get out.

Should give a quick update. We've been playing a slightly tweaked* version of oldcromunda rather than the new game for a few weeks now.

And its gone down a storm. It is far and away the preferred vision of the game and I think we'll be sticking with it going forward. It feels so much 'cleaner' in how it plays.

*won't lie-i prefer how the new game differentiates las and auto weapons (las easier to handle and use, auto has greater rof) and o think the levelling up/campaign approach is a bit better too.

Thanks all.for your input.

Has the levelling/advancement in Newcromunda improved at all? I haven't looked at it for a while, it was terribly imbalanced at one time and in need of heavy arbitrator/GM control, with very little of a handicap mechanism.

What I will say is that the number of books and rules for the game is absolutely overwhelming. I can imagine many new players taking a look at it and deciding not to bother. A good few comments in the FB groups seem to involve questions and that meme gif of John C Reilly looking confused that's for sure.

I guess they will still be getting sales from people who live and breathe the game and buy everything, but I bet the uptake of new players coming into the game now that the Ash Wastes release hype has died down will be dropping.