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Made in de
Servoarm Flailing Magos




Germany

 Pacific wrote:
Do we know if this person is genuinely accurate with their rumour-mongering?



That's an open question really, i'm tracking rumours from him since the beginning of January, and the general gist of it is that he does repeat a lot of stuff that's swirling around the internet because he makes about 5-6 videos per week and needs something to fill them, but he does take care to differentiate between random rumours from the net and stuff his 'trusted sources' tell him. The 'trusted source' stuff usually covers things that are a couple of months off at most, and is extremely accurate, down to the number of miniatures in a box, unit names or specific loadout options. Consistently. My personal conjecture about that is that his sources contain at least one person that does either marketing copywriting for the website/magazine or professional photography for that, as that would fit that consistent timing pretty well.

If you want to take a closer look at it, the OP of my rumour roundup thread is updated almost daily and contains summaries for about three dozen videos right now:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/808533.page

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/03/15 14:13:34


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Honestly every time there's a semi to major release there's a flood of "Epic, BFG" and the odd "I remember Warmaster/Man O War" that come around. Most often Epic and BFG.


In the end if they keep predicting it there is a chance that one day they will be right, but so far I don't think there have been any solid releases. Heck AN is dead in the water right now and AT has only had a few upgrades and hasn't even moved out of mirror-match Imperial titans (not even a single corrupted Chaos titan).

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in de
Servoarm Flailing Magos




Germany

 Overread wrote:
Honestly every time there's a semi to major release there's a flood of "Epic, BFG" and the odd "I remember Warmaster/Man O War" that come around. Most often Epic and BFG.


In the end if they keep predicting it there is a chance that one day they will be right, but so far I don't think there have been any solid releases. Heck AN is dead in the water right now and AT has only had a few upgrades and hasn't even moved out of mirror-match Imperial titans (not even a single corrupted Chaos titan).


There are new developments that are at least remarkable coincidences if they're actually unrelated
   
Made in fi
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Epic rerelease all but confirmed by GW:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/15/40-years-of-warhammer-clash-of-the-warlord-titans/

the important bit is:

"...And while epic scale Warhammer is in abeyance, the current edition of Adeptus Titanicus has brought many more God-engines out to play."

Abeyance. English is not my native language, but doesn't this mean something like "temporarily absent"?
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Yeah but this is like when GW does an article on Eldar and talks about Exodites. They've spoken of them for years; done bits of lore, stories, there's even a whole Warhammer + video called Exodites (which is honestly more about Tau!)


GW not outright saying "This thing isn't around right now but it could be" and "We are bringing this back" are two very very different things.


I'd 100% love to see Epic back, Titan Legions was what got me into Wargaming. BUT I'm not pinning any hopes on reading into GW social postings or Duncan hinting at it (he's left GW now and whilst he's likely got ideas of what's coming and contacts and such; he's also now in Youtube - he's playing the algorithm game - heck he's done his own "apply 100000s of layers of paint to a model for fun" video)

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Hmm interesting! It could definitely be laying the groundwork.

Yes abeyance means as you say, stopped or halted. Didn't they do a post like this with BFG not that long ago?

That prototype mini is really cool though, first time I have ever seen a picture of that.

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page

 
   
Made in fi
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Has GW made a habit of using this word before? If they have used it earlier, then I admit reading too much into it..
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






Be careful what you wish for. Epic seems to be in a great place right now, with tons of model options that match the style (Onslaught/Vanguard et al) as well as wide availability of some of the original plastics second hand.
If GW revive it, though, expect a massively flawed ruleset, overpriced models, and a witch hunt against the aforementioned 3rd parties. And lord help you if it's left as another HH-era game with a single playable faction...
   
Made in fi
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






 MalusCalibur wrote:
Be careful what you wish for. Epic seems to be in a great place right now, with tons of model options that match the style (Onslaught/Vanguard et al) as well as wide availability of some of the original plastics second hand.
If GW revive it, though, expect a massively flawed ruleset, overpriced models, and a witch hunt against the aforementioned 3rd parties. And lord help you if it's left as another HH-era game with a single playable faction...


Oh I think existing Epic fans will manage just fine. Aren't they 3D printing their epic armies anyways these days?

I don't care about crap new rules. I just want official plastic GW miniatures in the same scale as the Titans and the Aeronautica models. I will probably play 2nd edition Space Marine with the new models anyway, unless the new rules happen to be decent.
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Yeah I think TBH the Epic community is quite relaxed about different versions anyway. You have people playing 2nd edition (probably 1st!), NetEpic, Armageddon, Epic 40k etc. It's not like the Necromunda community had just had the one version, all beautifully wrapped up in the legacy edition living rulebook, and the new version hit like a bombshell and people weren't sure which one to play (and I think probably ended up fracturing things, although people like the community on Yaktribe I think grabbed the game by the horns and helped work it into something better).

Meanwhile, the reaction of guys who have been playing 2nd edition SM since 1991 at the prospect of a new version coming along..


Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page

 
   
Made in se
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Sweden

Knowing GW, the reason i dont want them to do epic again is that they will start to see community rules and 3rd party miniatures as competition. And once their lawyer army start their offensives they will basicly kill the existing flora of the game.

Leave the game for the fans and keep the greedy big corp. out of it.

Brutal, but kunning!  
   
Made in es
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer






 Gitdakka wrote:
Knowing GW, the reason i dont want them to do epic again is that they will start to see community rules and 3rd party miniatures as competition. And once their lawyer army start their offensives they will basicly kill the existing flora of the game.

Leave the game for the fans and keep the greedy big corp. out of it.


That's my main worry here, yeah. If GW ever starts doing the scale with anything more substantial than just titans and planes, they are bound to start prodding other manufacturers or designers to get off their lawn.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

From what I've seen in the 3D print world the only ones the lawyers go after are those who have used specific symbols, design elements or such which basically make them clones of GW models in the first place.

Those creators who put more of their own individual spin on the designs are doing just fine.


The same would be true of rules.


The lawyers are not the ones to "fear" unless you're just copy-catting GW's stuff.


If anything GW picking up Epic again would do the same thing it did to AT - generate an actual viable growing market that 3rd parties could more easily tap into to sell models too. Instead of a dwindling die-hard bunch of players, they'd get a fresh wave of new people.

The rules side would be less GW targeting 3rd party rules and more just the same thing that happens with 40K, AoS and such - clubs would adopt the GW standard; competitions would adopt it and the market would move with the GW system.
Now the established Epic market might well stick it out with older or current 3rd party rules editions. They might not specifically see huge growth in those rule systems, but they'd at least see the market grow and would have potential.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

I know Vanguard have been very, very careful at just using their own terms for the miniatures, even painted samples on the website are nothing like GW miniatures, have their own ruleset and the miniatures I think have just enough differentiation to known armour marks - they haven't done a recognisable Beakie/mk6 marine for example. I think also are they small enough that GW wouldn't even notice?

Somewhere like Etsy and 3D printing might be more at risk, and yet GW have done nothing yet to stop the quite flagrant copies of 28mm stuff - which are practically identical miniatures in some cases. I would say if they did ever have a legal case to start issuing C&Ds for that sort of stuff (should that ever happen, I have no idea how likely it is) I would have thought 28mm, and the far bigger market, would be a target before us little Epic scale collectors!

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page

 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

GW 100% does go after Etsy and 3D printer firms.

From what I gather though Etsy are a nightmare to deal with in terms of getting things pulled from their store. Even when 3D print creators want to have someone selling their STL files (so 100% clear cut theft and illegal sales) they have to fight each time; whilst the scammers just change email and make a new account.


GW do also send out letters and contact creators, but they are FAR more tame than in the Kirby days. I think they've got actual legal advice on what they can and can't protect and they only go after very specific design elements. Even then they typically have to spell out those elements and designers can remove them and relist without issue.

So yes GW are limited in what they can and can't protect and they do take steps to protect what they can.

I think its a joint move of having actual grounded legal advice and also the fact that Chapterhouse, whilst they didn't lose outright, did weaken their position and was a result purely of overzealous and underinformed legal actions that led up to it. So I think GW want to make sure that if things went to court they would win and also that things won't get that far in the first place.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

 Pacific wrote:
The main question now is which ruleset GW will use to replicate, or even if they will replicate one at all. Unlike many of the other specialist games which have been resurrected, they have a choice of systems, some of which play very differently.


With the current design team I wouldn't be that hopeful. Obviously balance issues, but you would have stuff like planes flying around the table and all the 'model centric' stuff GW design briefs include. Epic A was more like a wargame than GW game.
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






The_Real_Chris wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
The main question now is which ruleset GW will use to replicate, or even if they will replicate one at all. Unlike many of the other specialist games which have been resurrected, they have a choice of systems, some of which play very differently.


With the current design team I wouldn't be that hopeful. Obviously balance issues, but you would have stuff like planes flying around the table and all the 'model centric' stuff GW design briefs include. Epic A was more like a wargame than GW game.


It bears to remember that GW has plenty of capable games designers nowadays too. Middle-Earth, Kill Team, Underworlds, Necromunda, Titanicus, Blood Bowl and such are all reasonably competent or even great games that are fun to play as long as one doesn't try to push too far from their design intent. 40k and AoS are the exceptions, not the norm as far as GW rules texts are concerned (their larger audiences and thus discussion presence notwithstanding). Heck, GW already has done a recent synthesis of various Epics with their latest version of Apocalypse (2. ed orders, E40k detachment activation, E:A gun profiles etc.) which was pretty alright, too. If they seriously were to put some more actual design resources to a new Epic proper, it would more likely than not come from the better side of their rules writers.

#ConvertEverything blog with loyalist Death Guard in true and Epic scales. Also Titans and killer robots! C&C welcome.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717557.page

Do you like narrative gaming? Ongoing Imp vs. PDF rebellion campaign reports here:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/786958.page

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

Sadly most of the guys that pushed stuff like AT and warcry are now independent/elsewhere, mostly due to low pay. Apoc was a good example of how the 'rump' rules team tries to cope with design direction from their managers. It became impossible to have much of a tactical game given the instructions (yes, tanks and chimera are as tough as each other! Yes I have to have upgrade options for things reflecting what is in the box, etc.) so lots of the tactics and differentiation had to be done through cards. The game ultimately wasn't that good and despite several attempts to try it at the club and no doubt others, it quickly sank without trace.
   
Made in ie
Gangly Grot Rebel






 Pacific wrote:
I know Vanguard have been very, very careful at just using their own terms for the miniatures, even painted samples on the website are nothing like GW miniatures, have their own ruleset and the miniatures I think have just enough differentiation to known armour marks - they haven't done a recognisable Beakie/mk6 marine for example. I think also are they small enough that GW wouldn't even notice?



GW are well aware of vanguard, but seem to be more interested in his 15mm not-40k line than his Epic stuff. Orders were placed from head office for a selection of his 15mm minis.

I'd rather they leave any new version of epic alone- I'm not worried they have any power to C&D anything that currently fills the Epic gap, but rather too many people will go back to 'official only' which means place like vanguard will see less customers/money which is more likely to kill things like vanguard than GW taking actions at this point.

I've also no interest in seeing Epic come back when you only have to look at the mess of current necromunda. Can't wait to have to buy 25 rule books to keep up to date with the game, and 'needing' to buy a huge assortment of overpriced add ons like new playing cards or resin extras. Sure the necromunda plastics are really good, but the release overall is awful.

   
Made in se
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles





Sweden

I really like Epic HH with the Epic AU or Epic Armageddon rules.

I do hope GW don't shut them down or have it all taken down from various hosts.

What I do hope they bring is thematic play, campaign rules and/or narrative scenarios. That could probably be used with either ruleset.

I also wouldn't mind if they expand AT18 with flyers, AA and SHTs as an alternative to full on Epic.

I 3dprint my models so new plastic is less attractive for me personally, but it would mean more players for good and bad.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/03/20 20:24:26


30k: EC, AL, IW
Epic30k: IH, House Coldshroud, Legio Metalica, IW, Legio Interfector, AL
40k: EC CSM, Orks
DzC/DfC: UCM
WW2 Battlegroup/Bolt Action 6-15-28mm: German 41-44, Soviet 41-43, French 1940

Instagram @grimdarkgrimpast
 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

 RexHavoc wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
I know Vanguard have been very, very careful at just using their own terms for the miniatures, even painted samples on the website are nothing like GW miniatures, have their own ruleset and the miniatures I think have just enough differentiation to known armour marks - they haven't done a recognisable Beakie/mk6 marine for example. I think also are they small enough that GW wouldn't even notice?



GW are well aware of vanguard, but seem to be more interested in his 15mm not-40k line than his Epic stuff. Orders were placed from head office for a selection of his 15mm minis.


Ooh that is interesting. Do we know why they bought some minis from him? Not just to give to solicitors I hope.

The chap that runs Vanguard actually said he has had a drop in sales in recent months. Don't know if that is because of more people getting more 3D printed stuff, a few price rises, the recession or just a combination of those things.

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page

 
   
Made in se
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles





Sweden

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2023/03/rumors-epic-warhammer-intel-what-to.html?m=1

30k: EC, AL, IW
Epic30k: IH, House Coldshroud, Legio Metalica, IW, Legio Interfector, AL
40k: EC CSM, Orks
DzC/DfC: UCM
WW2 Battlegroup/Bolt Action 6-15-28mm: German 41-44, Soviet 41-43, French 1940

Instagram @grimdarkgrimpast
 
   
Made in de
Servoarm Flailing Magos




Germany

 westiebestie wrote:
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2023/03/rumors-epic-warhammer-intel-what-to.html?m=1


Thanks for posting; most of it sounds like reasonable projections any person familiar with the hobby would make or could make, with the odd line of fanservice thrown in:

> There exist ideas for a "Man of Iron" Faction and other "unknown" Factions for this Great Crusade second Edition


Yeah, i'm sure they'd throw in heavily retconned Men of Iron or the Rangda before they'd do both sides of the martian civil war, orks or eldar, or even necrons
   
Made in se
Slaanesh Veteran Marine with Tentacles





Sweden

Agree, I just ignore that part. Most of it makes sense though and ties in with previous rumours.

Voices say some kind of announcement is coming at this week's launch event.

Any future expansion to the Great Crusade would be extremely welcome. Plastic Eldar Titans are worth hoping and waiting for.

30k: EC, AL, IW
Epic30k: IH, House Coldshroud, Legio Metalica, IW, Legio Interfector, AL
40k: EC CSM, Orks
DzC/DfC: UCM
WW2 Battlegroup/Bolt Action 6-15-28mm: German 41-44, Soviet 41-43, French 1940

Instagram @grimdarkgrimpast
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Pacific wrote:
 RexHavoc wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
I know Vanguard have been very, very careful at just using their own terms for the miniatures, even painted samples on the website are nothing like GW miniatures, have their own ruleset and the miniatures I think have just enough differentiation to known armour marks - they haven't done a recognisable Beakie/mk6 marine for example. I think also are they small enough that GW wouldn't even notice?



GW are well aware of vanguard, but seem to be more interested in his 15mm not-40k line than his Epic stuff. Orders were placed from head office for a selection of his 15mm minis.


Ooh that is interesting. Do we know why they bought some minis from him? Not just to give to solicitors I hope.

The chap that runs Vanguard actually said he has had a drop in sales in recent months. Don't know if that is because of more people getting more 3D printed stuff, a few price rises, the recession or just a combination of those things.


Most of the 3D print market has seen a bit of a dip/slowdown. 3D printing exploded like mad during the pandemic. Heck it became a market for the SLA crowd.

The thing is it was artificial increase that wasn't sustainable.
The other downside is that the Patreon model meant that hte value of the STL went down in a massive race to the bottom as creators threw more and more models into monthly pledges to get more backers. The result is that people wound up with MASSIVE collections of STLs. Many have more stls than they will ever print and years worth of models already.


The result is that the number of new people coming into 3D printing has slowed and the mature market which is already there (which is only about 2-3 years old for the resin side) have a bloat of models. So people are getting more picky and I've honestly seen the relative value of the STL starting to creep up a bit.

Plus many sculptors have got their day-jobs back so there's that influencing things too at the other end. Some have also just burned out creating dozens of models every month non-stop for several years.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in nl
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





The Netherlands

 Overread wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
 RexHavoc wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
I know Vanguard have been very, very careful at just using their own terms for the miniatures, even painted samples on the website are nothing like GW miniatures, have their own ruleset and the miniatures I think have just enough differentiation to known armour marks - they haven't done a recognisable Beakie/mk6 marine for example. I think also are they small enough that GW wouldn't even notice?



GW are well aware of vanguard, but seem to be more interested in his 15mm not-40k line than his Epic stuff. Orders were placed from head office for a selection of his 15mm minis.


Ooh that is interesting. Do we know why they bought some minis from him? Not just to give to solicitors I hope.

The chap that runs Vanguard actually said he has had a drop in sales in recent months. Don't know if that is because of more people getting more 3D printed stuff, a few price rises, the recession or just a combination of those things.


Most of the 3D print market has seen a bit of a dip/slowdown. 3D printing exploded like mad during the pandemic. Heck it became a market for the SLA crowd.

The thing is it was artificial increase that wasn't sustainable.
The other downside is that the Patreon model meant that hte value of the STL went down in a massive race to the bottom as creators threw more and more models into monthly pledges to get more backers. The result is that people wound up with MASSIVE collections of STLs. Many have more stls than they will ever print and years worth of models already.


The result is that the number of new people coming into 3D printing has slowed and the mature market which is already there (which is only about 2-3 years old for the resin side) have a bloat of models. So people are getting more picky and I've honestly seen the relative value of the STL starting to creep up a bit.

Plus many sculptors have got their day-jobs back so there's that influencing things too at the other end. Some have also just burned out creating dozens of models every month non-stop for several years.


Very sharp analysis! Very recognisable!

Bits Blitz Designs - 3D printing a dark futuristic universe 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block





More appearances of epic models from ex GW staff.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pj3wBZtfaNs
   
Made in de
Servoarm Flailing Magos




Germany

twentypence wrote:
More appearances of epic models from ex GW staff.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pj3wBZtfaNs


Shown literally days after she made the separation from GW public, no less.

It's getting hard to ascribe all these happenings to pure coincidence.
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Tsagualsa wrote:
twentypence wrote:
More appearances of epic models from ex GW staff.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pj3wBZtfaNs


Shown literally days after she made the separation from GW public, no less.

It's getting hard to ascribe all these happenings to pure coincidence.


Hmm I am not so sure, she was just showing that she loves Rainbow Warriors and had done them in every scale and mini type.

Also yes an Epic Gargant in the background, but so was Trolls in da Pantry expansion: Dats my leg, and I don't think that has been mentioned in the rumours

Thanks for linking the video though it was great, very watchable!

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page

 
   
Made in de
Servoarm Flailing Magos




Germany

 Pacific wrote:
Tsagualsa wrote:
twentypence wrote:
More appearances of epic models from ex GW staff.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pj3wBZtfaNs


Shown literally days after she made the separation from GW public, no less.

It's getting hard to ascribe all these happenings to pure coincidence.


Hmm I am not so sure, she was just showing that she loves Rainbow Warriors and had done them in every scale and mini type.

Also yes an Epic Gargant in the background, but so was Trolls in da Pantry expansion: Dats my leg, and I don't think that has been mentioned in the rumours

Thanks for linking the video though it was great, very watchable!


My stance on Epic is a Fox Mulder-esque "I want to believe", so please let me interpret random bits of stuff in video backgrounds like i see fit, thank you I promise i wont bring out the cork pinboard, needles and red thread... yet
   
 
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