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Can a unit use warptime to move out of engagement range and shoot ? The unit makes a normal move in the psychic phase, but it doesnt say it moves as if its the movement phase. Therefore movement phase rules dont apply in the psychic phase (only fallback allowed when in engagement range).

Warptime
Blessing: If manifested, select a friendly <LEGION> INFANTRY or <LEGION> CHAOS SPAWN unit within 6" of this PSYKER.
- That unit can make a Normal Move (if that unit Advanced in your previous Movement phase, it still counts as having advanced this turn).
- Until the end of the turn, that unit is not eligible to declare a charge.

Warptime says "Normal move"

"NORMAL MOVE" rules state:

"When a unit makes a Normal Move, each model in that unit can move a distance in inches equal to or less than the Move (M) characteristic shown on its datasheet, but no model can be moved within Engagement Range of enemy models (pg 4)"

If you think the "movement phase rules dont [sic] apply in the psychic phase" then you need a citation for how to move a unit outside the movement phase for a "Normal move" I cant find one.

So with the only "Normal move" being detailed in the movement section, you have to use those rules.

Therefore, you can not make a normal move whilst engaged, and you can not circumvent this through Warptime.

No model is moved within engagement range. Quite the opposite, models are moved outside of engagement range.

Movement phase rules dont apply, because warptime doesnt say "as if....."

OUT OF PHASE RULES
Some rules allow a model or unit to move, shoot, charge, fight or attempt to manifest a psychic power outside of the normal turn sequence. If such a rule explicitly mentions to do so as if it were a different phase than the current one (e.g. ‘that unit can shoot as if it were the Shooting phase), then any rules that are normally used in that phase (in the example, this would be the Shooting phase) apply when that unit shoots.

 p5freak wrote:
No model is moved within engagement range. Quite the opposite, models are moved outside of engagement range.

In that case what stops a Normal Move in the movement phase from allowing you to move out of Engagement Range?

If, at any point in your move, you are moving within Engagement Range you can't make a Normal Move. If you're already in Engagement Range you'll necessarily have to move within Engagement Range as part of your move, so a Normal Move is illegal.

 p5freak wrote:
No model is moved within engagement range. Quite the opposite, models are moved outside of engagement range.

If all of the models are over 1 inch away when they start moving, and do not come within 1 inch of an enemy at any time during their move, then you can use warptime just fine.

But your Original statement said the modes were within engagement range to start, so that is the situation to which I was replying.

Fall Back allows you to leave Engagement Range. Normal Move doesn’t.

This is a nonsense bad faith thread from the usual suspect. Do. Not. Engage. Or you’ll just get sad and angry as he twists word vomit around pretending he has a rules case.

 p5freak wrote:
Can a unit use warptime to move out of engagement range and shoot ? The unit makes a normal move in the psychic phase, but it doesnt say it moves as if its the movement phase. Therefore movement phase rules dont apply in the psychic phase (only fallback allowed when in engagement range).

Warptime
Blessing: If manifested, select a friendly <LEGION> INFANTRY or <LEGION> CHAOS SPAWN unit within 6" of this PSYKER.
- That unit can make a Normal Move (if that unit Advanced in your previous Movement phase, it still counts as having advanced this turn).
- Until the end of the turn, that unit is not eligible to declare a charge.

A Normal Move is a type of move made during the Movement phase and must comply with the rules of that phase. Since the unit is allowed to make a Normal Move, it is implied that it must follow all the rules of the Movement phase. That means you cannot move at all if within Engagement Range of an enemy model.

Everyone of you ignores that this is happening in the psychic phase, where movement phase rules dont apply. Movement phase rules only apply when it says as if its the movement phase, which is not the case for warptime.

1. MOVE UNITS
Start your Movement phase by selecting one unit from your army to move; that unit can either make a Normal Move, it can Advance, or it can Remain Stationary (see right). If a unit is within Engagement Range (pg 4) of any enemy models when it is selected to move, it cannot make a Normal Move or Advance; it can either Remain Stationary or it can Fall Back (see right). After you have finished moving that unit, you can then select another unit from your army to move in the same manner, and so on, until you have done so with as many of your units as you wish.

These are the rules for moving units. Please note that while the rules are in the Movement Phase, the restriction that a unit cannot make a Normal Move or Advance if it is within Engagement Range of an enemy model is not defined as a Movement Phase restriction. It is a blanket restriction whenever a unit is selected to move. This is different from 8th Edition where the restriction is a Movement Phase restriction.

So I must revise my prior statement. There is no implying that a unit making a Normal Move is making a move as if it were the Movement Phase. You are simply never allowed to have a unit make a Normal Move while it is within Engagement Range of an enemy model.

 alextroy wrote:

1. MOVE UNITS
Start your Movement phase by selecting one unit from your army to move; that unit can either make a Normal Move, it can Advance, or it can Remain Stationary (see right). If a unit is within Engagement Range (pg 4) of any enemy models when it is selected to move, it cannot make a Normal Move or Advance; it can either Remain Stationary or it can Fall Back (see right). After you have finished moving that unit, you can then select another unit from your army to move in the same manner, and so on, until you have done so with as many of your units as you wish.

These are the rules for moving units.

These are the rules for moving units in the movement phase. Those rules dont apply in the psychic phase, because warptime doesnt say you make a normal move as if it is your movement phase.

 p5freak wrote:
Everyone of you ignores that this is happening in the psychic phase, where movement phase rules dont apply. Movement phase rules only apply when it says as if its the movement phase, which is not the case for warptime.

I addressed this in my first post. I did not ignore it.

I will <CTRL C/V> it for you.

If you think the "movement phase rules dont [sic] apply in the psychic phase" (A quote from your OP) then you need a citation for how to move a unit outside the movement phase for a "Normal move" I cant find one.

Do you have a citation for how to move a unit outside the movement phase?

 p5freak wrote:

 alextroy wrote:

1. MOVE UNITS
Start your Movement phase by selecting one unit from your army to move; that unit can either make a Normal Move, it can Advance, or it can Remain Stationary (see right). If a unit is within Engagement Range (pg 4) of any enemy models when it is selected to move, it cannot make a Normal Move or Advance; it can either Remain Stationary or it can Fall Back (see right). After you have finished moving that unit, you can then select another unit from your army to move in the same manner, and so on, until you have done so with as many of your units as you wish.

These are the rules for moving units.

These are the rules for moving units in the movement phase. Those rules dont apply in the psychic phase, because warptime doesnt say you make a normal move as if it is your movement phase.

That rule is titled "Moving Units". If those rules don't apply, none of the rules mentioned there apply, so how do you propose we actually move units at all, outside of the Movement phase? The only rules that tell us how to make a Normal Move, according to you, only apply in the Movement phase.

You know what? Don't bother answering that. I can already tell this thread is well on its way to devolving into classic YMDC stupidity.

Devolving? It began that way. It’s just p5 baiting everyone to engage, get annoyed, give them more attention. It was always destined for the toilet because the premise is pish.

Fallback isnt a normal move, advance is also not a normal move.