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Vatsetis wrote:


Yes that cardboard can be printed with colour and therefore be aesthetically more pleasing and easy to identify that unpainted minis.

Actually, willingly limiting your 40K hobby to unpainted minis is like willllingly limiting your adult sexual live to masturbation... There might be some very few fringe cases in which both are understandable, but on most cases it just making your own experience poorer.

No shot, even color paper cutouts look shittier than unpainted minis lol.

and now not painting your mini means youre an incel or something? Get a grip, take your pills

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Vatsetis wrote:
Well some people collect old functional cars and dont know how to drive them and actually pay others to drive them so they dont break down.

Some people eat a lot of food but dont digest them and rather vomit it.

Some people drink alcohol in unhealthy cuantities far beyond the point it might provide them some pleasure.

Surely if someone point out to this people that they were not ussing their cars or food or drinks in a sensible manner they would be pissed off and cry some nonsense about their "personal freedom and property". :(

wtf kinda point are you even trying to make here?

Its pretty clear... That cars are ment to be driven, food is ment to be diggested, alcohol should be consumed with moderation and 40k miniatures are designed with painting in mind... And that the people that dont grasp this very simple facts are somewhat non functional.

Vatsetis wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Vatsetis wrote:
Well some people collect old functional cars and dont know how to drive them and actually pay others to drive them so they dont break down.

Some people eat a lot of food but dont digest them and rather vomit it.

Some people drink alcohol in unhealthy cuantities far beyond the point it might provide them some pleasure.

Surely if someone point out to this people that they were not ussing their cars or food or drinks in a sensible manner they would be pissed off and cry some nonsense about their "personal freedom and property". :(

wtf kinda point are you even trying to make here?

Its pretty clear... That cars are ment to be driven, food is ment to be diggested, alcohol should be consumed with moderation and 40k miniatures are designed with painting in mind... And that the people that dont grasp this very simple facts are somewhat non functional.

Yeah, ok, go feth yourself.

Vatsetis wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Shas'O Ky'husa wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Maybe because they like this hobby?

Why would you like this hobby if you don't value the aesthetics of the miniatures? Without that all you're doing is spending thousands of dollars on a game you could be playing with cardboard tokens instead. Or you could even play a better game, since you're not committed to using the rules that match your miniatures collection.

youre so fething annoying with that gatekeeping.

how hard is it to understand that some people are part of the hobby even if they only enjoy the actual game. you don't need to love the lore or painting to love moving dudes around and shooting down your opponent ffs.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shas'O Ky'husa wrote:

But the reason you play with thousands of dollars worth of models instead of $5 in cardboard tokens is 100% about the aesthetics.

theres a difference between cardboard cutouts and unpainted models

Yes that cardboard can be printed with colour and therefore be aesthetically more pleasing and easy to identify that unpainted minis.

Actually, willingly limiting your 40K hobby to unpainted minis is like willllingly limiting your adult sexual live to masturbation... There might be some very few fringe cases in which both are understandable, but on most cases it just making your own experience poorer.

I feel like telling you about the existence of asexual people would cause your head to explode

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Vatsetis wrote:


Yes that cardboard can be printed with colour and therefore be aesthetically more pleasing and easy to identify that unpainted minis.

Actually, willingly limiting your 40K hobby to unpainted minis is like willllingly limiting your adult sexual live to masturbation... There might be some very few fringe cases in which both are understandable, but on most cases it just making your own experience poorer.

No shot, even color paper cutouts look shittier than unpainted minis lol.

and now not painting your mini means youre an incel or something? Get a grip, take your pills

What I have described its exactly the opposite of an Incel.

A "Wargaming Incel" would be someone that is frustrated by having unpainted minis and blames his inhability to paint them on the broader society (focusing on actual painters) . Not some one that "demands" to play with unpainted miniatures.

Ah found it!

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:

Vatsetis wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Shas'O Ky'husa wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Maybe because they like this hobby?

Why would you like this hobby if you don't value the aesthetics of the miniatures? Without that all you're doing is spending thousands of dollars on a game you could be playing with cardboard tokens instead. Or you could even play a better game, since you're not committed to using the rules that match your miniatures collection.

youre so fething annoying with that gatekeeping.

how hard is it to understand that some people are part of the hobby even if they only enjoy the actual game. you don't need to love the lore or painting to love moving dudes around and shooting down your opponent ffs.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shas'O Ky'husa wrote:

But the reason you play with thousands of dollars worth of models instead of $5 in cardboard tokens is 100% about the aesthetics.

theres a difference between cardboard cutouts and unpainted models

Yes that cardboard can be printed with colour and therefore be aesthetically more pleasing and easy to identify that unpainted minis.

Actually, willingly limiting your 40K hobby to unpainted minis is like willllingly limiting your adult sexual live to masturbation... There might be some very few fringe cases in which both are understandable, but on most cases it just making your own experience poorer.

I feel like telling you about the existence of asexual people would cause your head to explode

I Know about the existence of asexual people, you could perhaps include them in the odd cases I assume... Nevertheless asexual people (I might be wrong, since I know there are many degrees and variants) arent really into having pleausure from sex (alone or with partners).

Surely the "I only want to play with unpainted minis" camp dont play 40K as a working duty... So they find some pleasure in the hobby but are "afraid" to expand their pleasure by ussing painted minis (which for me seems an odd, although respectable, option).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Vatsetis wrote:


Yes that cardboard can be printed with colour and therefore be aesthetically more pleasing and easy to identify that unpainted minis.

Actually, willingly limiting your 40K hobby to unpainted minis is like willllingly limiting your adult sexual live to masturbation... There might be some very few fringe cases in which both are understandable, but on most cases it just making your own experience poorer.

No shot, even color paper cutouts look shittier than unpainted minis lol.

and now not painting your mini means youre an incel or something? Get a grip, take your pills

They are also significantly cheaper.

If money is not an issue, why not just hire a pro painter?

Vatsetis wrote:


Surely the "I only want to play with unpainted minis" camp dont play 40K as a working duty... So they find some pleasure in the hobby but are "afraid" to expand their pleasure by ussing painted minis (which for me seems an odd, although respectable, option).

its not being afraid, its just not enjoying painting, its THAT fething SIMPLE.

Vatsetis wrote:



If money is not an issue, why not just hire a pro painter?

just because i could afford to pay someone to paint doesn't mean i want to spend even more money in that already expensive hobby

You understand that by having painted miniatures the amount of tournaments and pick up games you could play will greatly expand? Dont you value to be able to play with a broader community?

You can buy less minis and pay for them being painted. Its a matter of cost of oportunity.

Perhaps drinking a beer can be a pleaure, but drinking 10 on a single night cause some inconvenience.

Perhaps having one nicely painted army could be an alternative to having three unpainted ones? Surely it will help for gamming with more people.

Just like quitting smoking would probably open your social circle if you live in a country where smoking is heavely penalised.

Vatsetis wrote:
You understand that by having painted miniatures the amount of tournaments and pick up games you could play will greatly expand? Dont you value to be able to play with a broader community?

I don't care for tournaments.
The majority of people don't care about the paint.
I'd rather play with someone that has a good attitude and unpainted minis than a TFG with propainted minis.

So, in the thread I made, someone made an offhand comment about how the poll I made felt biased. It didn’t feel that way to me, but I freely admit that other people can be reasonable and have a different opinion.

This poll here? This is biased as hell. Especially given “I don’t enjoy painting” is, per the OP, covered under option one. No thank you.

 JNAProductions wrote:
So, in the thread I made, someone made an offhand comment about how the poll I made felt biased. It didn’t feel that way to me, but I freely admit that other people can be reasonable and have a different opinion.

This poll here? This is biased as hell. Especially given “I don’t enjoy painting” is, per the OP, covered under option one. No thank you.

I honestly saw the options and felt right away like this poll was made to stir up trouble

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Vatsetis wrote:
You understand that by having painted miniatures the amount of tournaments and pick up games you could play will greatly expand? Dont you value to be able to play with a broader community?

I don't care for tournaments.
The majority of people don't care about the paint.
I'd rather play with someone that has a good attitude and unpainted minis than a TFG with propainted minis.

Vatsetis wrote:

You can buy less minis and pay for them being painted. Its a matter of cost of oportunity.

Having minis painted can easily double their cost, thats just not a thing i'd be willing to do (even if i can afford it)

Vatsetis wrote:


Perhaps drinking a beer can be a pleaure, but drinking 10 on a single night cause some inconvenience.

Perhaps having one nicely painted army could be an alternative to having three unpainted ones? Surely it will help for gamming with more people.

Just like quitting smoking would probably open your social circle if you live in a country where smoking is heavely penalised.

???????????????????????????

No, it's more akin to buying a car and not upgrading the radio, or adding bluetooth to it, or various other things like that.

If you enjoy the game of 40k, whether or not the models are painted, your enjoyment is just as valid as someone who enjoys painting but not gaming, or someone who enjoys both, or someone who just reads the novels.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Who says that they don't value the aesthetics of the models?

The fact that they don't paint them, leaving the models in an aesthetically unappealing state.

Maybe they intend to paint everything, but haven't yet, but still want to play with the unpainted models before they're finished.

Those people are not relevant to the topic of this thread, which was people who are vehement against painting their armies.

 Shas'O Ky'husa wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Who says that they don't value the aesthetics of the models?

The fact that they don't paint them, leaving the models in an aesthetically unappealing state.

Maybe they intend to paint everything, but haven't yet, but still want to play with the unpainted models before they're finished.

Those people are not relevant to the topic of this thread, which was people who are vehement against painting their armies.

Aesthetically unappealing to you. Not universally.

And has anyone actually said they're vehemently against painting? I don't enjoy painting, for instance, but I've certainly nothing against it. This whole thread is waging war against a strawman.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
'Cause I've yet to come across another group here that is as absolutist as them.

Most people here - hell the overwhelming majority of people here - just don't care. But there's a rare few here who won't stop going on about painting miniatures, and they're becoming quite insufferable.

There's that double standard again, complaining about how "insufferable" the side you dislike is while ignoring the fact that every time this comes up even the most mild of criticism of unpainted models draws an endless parade of hyperbolic statements about how nasty everyone is being to them.

 JNAProductions wrote:
So, in the thread I made, someone made an offhand comment about how the poll I made felt biased. It didn’t feel that way to me, but I freely admit that other people can be reasonable and have a different opinion.

This poll here? This is biased as hell. Especially given “I don’t enjoy painting” is, per the OP, covered under option one. No thank you.

Even if you dont enjoy painting there are many alternatives to use painted armies. Deniyng this is an act of ofuscation.

Perhaps if you can only eat beef meat if its burn out so it has almost no trace of its original taste or can only tolerate fresh fish if you drown it with citrics... You indeed dont like beef or fish that much.

If you dont enjoy riding dont buy a riding horse and keep it at the stable pretending you are a jockey.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Aesthetically unappealing to you. Not universally.

Go ahead, make a poll with the general population. Show them a picture of an unpainted miniature next to one painted to GW's battle-ready standard and let's see what they say. I bet you that, outside of the minority of people who have a personal stake in being able to play with unpainted models, virtually everyone agrees that the painted miniature looks better.

And has anyone actually said they're vehemently against painting? I don't enjoy painting, for instance, but I've certainly nothing against it. This whole thread is waging war against a strawman.

Using that word? Probably not. But even if you generalize it to people who are against painting someone who is for painting but still in the process of finishing their project is clearly not in the same category.

There's a big difference between "Not as appealing" and "Unappealing", Shas'O.
If you gave me a well-made burger and a well-made pork chop, I'd find the burger more appealing to eat. Does that mean the pork chop is bad? No-just that I find the burger better.
Likewise, grey plastic doesn't offend my sensibilities. Nor does it for the people I game with. It's not as appealing as a painted mini, but it's still appealing because the model is very well-designed.

And Vatsetis, I enjoy the game of 40k. I fully admit it's got TONS of flaws and faults, but despite that, I enjoy it. I do not enjoy painting. The two parts are related, but they aren't the same. Do you understand that?

Edit: Shas'O, I think you're conflating "I don't want to paint my own models" with "I think painting is bad".

The former is an attitude I have, because I don't enjoy painting.
The latter is not something I agree with at all.

 JNAProductions wrote:
No, it's more akin to buying a car and not upgrading the radio, or adding bluetooth to it, or various other things like that.

If you enjoy the game of 40k, whether or not the models are painted, your enjoyment is just as valid as someone who enjoys painting but not gaming, or someone who enjoys both, or someone who just reads the novels.

How is this poll about the validity of enjoyment? Its about denial.

You know some people would say that eating until vomiting is a great pleasure. Certainly it defeats the standard porpouse of eating and in some cases might be unhealthy... But subjectively this people enjoy doing so, to the point of addiction.

Im sure that accumulating stashes of unpainted minis... With no intention of painting or perhaps even playing with them creates enjoyment to the point of addiction amongst many in the hobby.

Vatsetis wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
No, it's more akin to buying a car and not upgrading the radio, or adding bluetooth to it, or various other things like that.

If you enjoy the game of 40k, whether or not the models are painted, your enjoyment is just as valid as someone who enjoys painting but not gaming, or someone who enjoys both, or someone who just reads the novels.

How is this poll about the validity of enjoyment? Its about denial.

You know some people would say that eating until vomiting is a great pleasure. Certainly it defeats the standard porpouse of eating and in some cases might be unhealthy... But subjectively this people enjoy doing so, to the point of addiction.

Im sure that accumulating stashes of unpainted minis... With no intention of painting or perhaps even playing with them creates enjoyment to the point of addiction amongst many in the hobby.

Except no one has said "You shouldn't paint your minis."
No one. No one is saying that the people who enjoy painting shouldn't enjoy that part of the hobby.

What some people ARE saying is that that part of the hobby doesn't appeal to them-and I count myself in that category. If you enjoy painting, paint! But I don't.

Vatsetis wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
No, it's more akin to buying a car and not upgrading the radio, or adding bluetooth to it, or various other things like that.

If you enjoy the game of 40k, whether or not the models are painted, your enjoyment is just as valid as someone who enjoys painting but not gaming, or someone who enjoys both, or someone who just reads the novels.

How is this poll about the validity of enjoyment? Its about denial.

You know some people would say that eating until vomiting is a great pleasure. Certainly it defeats the standard porpouse of eating and in some cases might be unhealthy... But subjectively this people enjoy doing so, to the point of addiction.

Im sure that accumulating stashes of unpainted minis... With no intention of painting or perhaps even playing with them creates enjoyment to the point of addiction amongst many in the hobby.

Why are you making these outrageous comparisons?

 JNAProductions wrote:
There's a big difference between "Not as appealing" and "Unappealing", Shas'O.
If you gave me a well-made burger and a well-made pork chop, I'd find the burger more appealing to eat. Does that mean the pork chop is bad? No-just that I find the burger better.
Likewise, grey plastic doesn't offend my sensibilities. Nor does it for the people I game with. It's not as appealing as a painted mini, but it's still appealing because the model is very well-designed.

And Vatsetis, I enjoy the game of 40k. I fully admit it's got TONS of flaws and faults, but despite that, I enjoy it. I do not enjoy painting. The two parts are related, but they aren't the same. Do you understand that?

Edit: Shas'O, I think you're conflating "I don't want to paint my own models" with "I think painting is bad".

The former is an attitude I have, because I don't enjoy painting.
The latter is not something I agree with at all.

But enjoying painting and playing with painted armies are not the same thing. Unless you are ofuscated or trolling.

Vatsetis wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
There's a big difference between "Not as appealing" and "Unappealing", Shas'O.
If you gave me a well-made burger and a well-made pork chop, I'd find the burger more appealing to eat. Does that mean the pork chop is bad? No-just that I find the burger better.
Likewise, grey plastic doesn't offend my sensibilities. Nor does it for the people I game with. It's not as appealing as a painted mini, but it's still appealing because the model is very well-designed.

And Vatsetis, I enjoy the game of 40k. I fully admit it's got TONS of flaws and faults, but despite that, I enjoy it. I do not enjoy painting. The two parts are related, but they aren't the same. Do you understand that?

Edit: Shas'O, I think you're conflating "I don't want to paint my own models" with "I think painting is bad".

The former is an attitude I have, because I don't enjoy painting.
The latter is not something I agree with at all.

But enjoying painting and playing with painted armies are not the same thing. Unless you are ofuscated or trolling.

Okay, allow me to elaborate.

I don't enjoy painting. And I don't care about whether or not my models are painted.
I do enjoy building the models, and customizing them that way-so I buy kits and build them.
So, buying second-hand minis isn't something I'd enjoy. And throwing $500 to get an army painted isn't worth it for me.

Does that make sense?

Shas'O Ky'husa wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Who says that they don't value the aesthetics of the models?

The fact that they don't paint them, leaving the models in an aesthetically unappealing state.

Yeah, I covered that in my original response to you. To reiterate, with emphasis:

Gadzilla666 wrote:Who says that they don't value the aesthetics of the models? To be clear, you're complaining about people with unpainted models, not just unpainted armies. Maybe they intend to paint everything, but haven't yet, but still want to play with the unpainted models before they're finished. Maybe they can appreciate the aesthetics of the miniatures without painting them. Maybe they like the game, everyone doesn't have the same opinion on that either. And how do you know that they aren't committed to using the rules that "match their miniatures collection"?

Which is the important part: It's their miniatures collection. And they can do whatever they want with them. They paid their own hard earned $$$ for them, and it's none of your business whether they paint them or not. If you don't want to play against unpainted models, then don't play them.

Stop assuming that your opinions are universal. They're not.

Shas'O Ky'husa wrote:Those people are not relevant to the topic of this thread, which was people who are vehement against painting their armies.

Sorry, I was trying to actually talk about people who actually exist. No one is "vehemently opposed to painting their armies". There's people who don't, but they're not "vehemently opposed" to it. They have their own reasons, that are generally sane, and not some silly strawman for you to smack around.

 JNAProductions wrote:
There's a big difference between "Not as appealing" and "Unappealing", Shas'O.
If you gave me a well-made burger and a well-made pork chop, I'd find the burger more appealing to eat. Does that mean the pork chop is bad? No-just that I find the burger better.
Likewise, grey plastic doesn't offend my sensibilities. Nor does it for the people I game with. It's not as appealing as a painted mini, but it's still appealing because the model is very well-designed.

Sure, let's go with the food analogy. If you're someone who claims to really care about quality food then I'd be really surprised if you picked a $0.99 fast food burger over that well-made burger. Sure, a fast food burger is great for utilitarian purposes like getting a quick meal on a road trip but we all know it's significantly worse in quality. And I think we'd all be in agreement on questioning the sanity of someone who claims to really care about burgers but never eats anything but the $0.99 pile of fillers, meat byproducts, and solidified HFCS.

Same thing with miniatures. I can get why someone who doesn't care about aesthetics wouldn't be driven to improve the aesthetics of their miniatures by painting them, but if you care about aesthetics why would you settle for a lower-tier product? And if you don't care about aesthetics why buy expensive models instead of cheap cardboard tokens?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Stop assuming that your opinions are universal. They're not.

Then, like I said, poll the general population. You and I both know which answer is going to win.

Sorry, I was trying to actually talk about people who actually exist. No one is "vehemently opposed to painting their armies". There's people who don't, but they're not "vehemently opposed" to it. They have their own reasons, that are generally sane, and not some silly strawman for you to smack around.

And, like I said already, even if you discard "vehement" from the description it still doesn't apply. Someone who is in favor of painting but hasn't finished their army yet is not in the same category as someone who does not paint at all.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Vatsetis wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
No, it's more akin to buying a car and not upgrading the radio, or adding bluetooth to it, or various other things like that.

If you enjoy the game of 40k, whether or not the models are painted, your enjoyment is just as valid as someone who enjoys painting but not gaming, or someone who enjoys both, or someone who just reads the novels.

How is this poll about the validity of enjoyment? Its about denial.

You know some people would say that eating until vomiting is a great pleasure. Certainly it defeats the standard porpouse of eating and in some cases might be unhealthy... But subjectively this people enjoy doing so, to the point of addiction.

Im sure that accumulating stashes of unpainted minis... With no intention of painting or perhaps even playing with them creates enjoyment to the point of addiction amongst many in the hobby.

Except no one has said "You shouldn't paint your minis."
No one. No one is saying that the people who enjoy painting shouldn't enjoy that part of the hobby.

What some people ARE saying is that that part of the hobby doesn't appeal to them-and I count myself in that category. If you enjoy painting, paint! But I don't.

I have no problem with you not painting. Its s crime if I try to understand why you and other fellow gamers dont enjoy painting?

 Shas'O Ky'husa wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
There's a big difference between "Not as appealing" and "Unappealing", Shas'O.
If you gave me a well-made burger and a well-made pork chop, I'd find the burger more appealing to eat. Does that mean the pork chop is bad? No-just that I find the burger better.
Likewise, grey plastic doesn't offend my sensibilities. Nor does it for the people I game with. It's not as appealing as a painted mini, but it's still appealing because the model is very well-designed.

Sure, let's go with the food analogy. If you're someone who claims to really care about quality food then I'd be really surprised if you picked a $0.99 fast food burger over that well-made burger. Sure, a fast food burger is great for utilitarian purposes like getting a quick meal on a road trip but we all know it's significantly worse in quality. And I think we'd all be in agreement on questioning the sanity of someone who claims to really care about burgers but never eats anything but the $0.99 pile of fillers, meat byproducts, and solidified HFCS.

Same thing with miniatures. I can get why someone who doesn't care about aesthetics wouldn't be driven to improve the aesthetics of their miniatures by painting them, but if you care about aesthetics why would you settle for a lower-tier product? And if you don't care about aesthetics why buy expensive models instead of cheap cardboard tokens?

I like to build minis, and customize them. I've got 10 kitbashed Possessed, made with three different kits and some green stuff.
They aren't painted, because I don't enjoy painting. They are built, because I enjoy that part.

For you, painting is essential. A mini can't even be considered complete without a paintjob. For me, it's not.
We have different preferences-and that's okay.

 JNAProductions wrote:
I like to build minis, and customize them. I've got 10 kitbashed Possessed, made with three different kits and some green stuff.
They aren't painted, because I don't enjoy painting. They are built, because I enjoy that part.

For you, painting is essential. A mini can't even be considered complete without a paintjob. For me, it's not.
We have different preferences-and that's okay.

If you could press a button and magically have all of your models fully painted would you consider them improved? Or would you refuse to press the button because you prefer bare plastic with glue/green stuff/etc still visible from the conversion work?