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2022/08/03 14:05:03
Subject: Leviathans: The Great War steampunk airship combat from Catalyst
Actually, why does a WWI game include Taiwan as a separate entity? Disregarding the politics here, and whether Taiwan should be independent, the island was part of the Republic of China until '49, when the dicatorship fled to the island to prevent being murdered by the folks they'd been oppressing.
Taiwan was under Japanese rule during the first half of the Twentieth Century.
You are, of course, right about the Japanese occupation. My brain skipped that, and clearly needs more caffeine.
Are we sure the kerfuffle wasn't about Tibet? It was an independent state from 1912 to 1951, well within the period, and China has banned media in the past for depicting it as such.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/03 14:07:04
"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado
2022/08/04 08:41:29
Subject: Leviathans: The Great War steampunk airship combat from Catalyst
I would guess the campaign is not doing nearly as well as they hoped. No updates in 3 days (Gencon is not a good excuse for this), funding has hit the mid-campaign doldrums and will likely trend towards a 600kish finish if nothing changes to alter the trend from the typical funding pattern, meanwhile Catalyst indicated they were hoping for a number closer to a million during the Q&A, as the additional funding will enable them to hit all the items on their launch wishlist.
I suspect the format of the campaign page isn't entirely helpig it, theres no visual representation of pledge levels indicating the amount of stuff that backers get in a way that feeds into and reinforces miniatures gamers primordial need and desire for more stuff. There are no clear images of the sculpts contained in each product, nor of which products have been unlocked - to find that you have to read through all the text in the stretch goal images and try to collate the data mentally to track who has had their cruiser/destroyer/battleship etc. boxes unlocked, which ones are unique sculpts and which ones aren't etc. Likewise theres no clear breakdown of the freebies that have been unlocked and which pledge levels get them, etc. All of that is fairly basic stuff that should have been present on day 1, I can only imagine that they didn't have it on the campaign page because they were rushing to hit their Gencon launch goal and ran out of time, but they should be scrambling now to get that on there because that will probably make a big difference in backer growth going forward and could be the boost they needed to hit their internal goals.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2022/08/08 19:34:02
Subject: Re:Leviathans: The Great War steampunk airship combat from Catalyst
It's also hot on the heels of another airship KS (Dockfighters), and there was Aldarra this year too. Plus Dystopian Wars 3.0 is doing well and just about to get air fleets.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2022/08/08 19:37:39
Subject: Leviathans: The Great War steampunk airship combat from Catalyst
i'd say gencon was a great excuse (even if no daily updates isn't a smart descision)
but the other criticisms are spot on, it really does feel rushed (and i have a feeling a lot of the images aren't there because they don't have them yet)
at least they've now got a pledge level for folk who have the original and seem to be a significant proportion of the comments at least
2022/08/08 19:41:46
Subject: Leviathans: The Great War steampunk airship combat from Catalyst
I think they might've been overly ambitious hoping for 1 million. This isn't really a fully established universe and game with an existing fanbase. It was never going to pull in the numbers of a Battletech kickstarter. Plus the nature of the game is inherently more niche to begin with. Steampunk will never do as well as sci fi either. I think the KS is doing okay, and finishing off around 500k for what it is shouldn't be seen as a failure.
If the game launches and does okay later on they can do a 2nd kickster for those additional 3 factions and it'll likely hit that goal quickly. I'd rather they tried to make sure they get the balance right with 5 factions instead of 8-9 which would be more difficult.
2022/08/08 20:03:17
Subject: Leviathans: The Great War steampunk airship combat from Catalyst
Thargrim wrote: It was never going to pull in the numbers of a Battletech kickstarter.
Of which there is one coming this Fall.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
2022/08/08 20:16:20
Subject: Leviathans: The Great War steampunk airship combat from Catalyst
It really isn't. Kickstarter visibility (in terms of organic views and search ranking) is driven by kickstarter activity - creator updates are a big way to keep the page at the top of the list so you can drive organic views. Algorithmically kickstarters search and visibility rankings also favor newly launched projects and projects just about to end. Maintaining online engagement and traffic through the first few days of a campaign is very important in terms of maintaining project visiblity for the duration of it and driving the expected final 48 hour backer spike, and in that CGL dropped the ball hard.
If you don't have the staffing needed to maintain communication during the first few days of the campaign because you brought your entire staff to a convention, then you shouldn't have run the campaign concurrently with said convention. On top of that, the idea of getting more exposure at Gencon to drive a campaign is somewhat farcical. Gencon pulls something like 100k unique visitors over the course of the event, of which only a relatively small fraction will ever actually see or interact with Catalyst and its products - and the majority of those people will blow threw their disposable income at the event itself on physical product that they can take home with them, not to mention food/drink, room/board, and travel costs. They will not, and in fact did not, receive a "Gencon Bump" if that is what they were hoping for - as their backer numbers decreased as Gencon attendance numbers increased. Gencons three busiest days were the campaigns three weakest days thus far, today notwithstanding (as its still ongoing). So, IMO they sacrificed a lot for very little gain during a time when they really should have been driving online hype to their campaign.
at least they've now got a pledge level for folk who have the original and seem to be a significant proportion of the comments at least
This is also concerning, it seems they are struggling to make inroads to new backers vs established fans. I would imagine their desire for a $1 mil target was partially driven by the expectation that they would be able to capture "new business" in addition to existing fans of the original game, I would guess that they have been successful in making a sales pitch to the existing fanbase, but not necessarily to others.
I think they might've been overly ambitious hoping for 1 million. This isn't really a fully established universe and game with an existing fanbase. It was never going to pull in the numbers of a Battletech kickstarter. Plus the nature of the game is inherently more niche to begin with. Steampunk will never do as well as sci fi either.
I think this is a bad take. There have been quite a few substantially more niche and unknown IPs/universes that have pulled significantly higher backer totals than that (I would also argue that the BT kickstarter underperformed for its $2.5 million pull as CGL similarly did not have art assets for most of what backers were pledging for, though CGL managed to pull a multiple of that amount in late pledges once those assets were more developed). Hell, Kingdom Deaths first kickstarter pulled $2 mil 10 years ago on an even more niche game from an unproven no-name studio for a no-name unierse/IP. Fact of the matter is that once the idea of an IP/universe matters less when you have the reach and name recognition that Catalyst does. Catalyst will have achieved a level of visibility on this campaign that many other campaigns could only dream of having when they launched.
I think the KS is doing okay, and finishing off around 500k for what it is shouldn't be seen as a failure.
If the game launches and does okay later on they can do a 2nd kickster for those additional 3 factions and it'll likely hit that goal quickly. I'd rather they tried to make sure they get the balance right with 5 factions instead of 8-9 which would be more difficult.
Err, it is a failure if your product launch roadmap was built around obtaining a level of funding and financial support that you cannot achieve. Look at games like The Other Side (finished at $340k), Wrath of Kings (which pulled $700k, I might add), and Warcaster (another $500k club product) for an indication of what happens to games like this when you fall short - difficulty developing and releasing a second wave of product out the door in a reasonable timeframe, difficulties getting retail support for your product line, etc. I would say that the announced product range (including the as of yet un-met stretch goals) and intent to launch with 5 factions is pretty ambitious and will definitely cost more in development and production than CGL looks to be able to raise from this campaign as it currently stands. Thats definitely a worrying sign. That being said, there was never any intention of launching with all 8 factions, CGL was clear from the beginning that this campaign would only be used to launch 5 of them, etc. so that is definitely not what we are discussing here/those remaining 3 factions were not what CGL was hoping to launch by hitting 1 mil.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2022/08/14 16:29:23
Subject: Re:Leviathans: The Great War steampunk airship combat from Catalyst
Campaign is in its final 30 or so hours, currently sitting around 450k. Hasn't been the best run campaign, distinct lack of graphics and imagery to provide visual guidance as to whats been unlocked and whats free, etc. as well as a lot of lack of clarity as to what the different items and stretch goals are/contain. I was anticipating a finish closer to 600k but I think it'll maybe manage to crest 500k now.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2022/08/21 17:06:55
Subject: Re:Leviathans: The Great War steampunk airship combat from Catalyst
I wouldn't say theres "nothing interesting" there, its just they've done an awful job putting information where it should be. If it wasn't for the fact that I've been in the official discord for years now I'd have no clue what anything is or whats going on.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2022/08/21 17:38:56
Subject: Leviathans: The Great War steampunk airship combat from Catalyst
I think they made pretty good money for how lackluster the campaign was ran. Looks like there's still some market for steam/dieselpunk airship stuff. Which is good. But I'll stick to Dystopian Wars for now. They're putting out two new plastic sprues with modular cruisers every month, and that beats a handful of prepaints with what looks like an Xwing sales model.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/21 17:39:31
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2022/08/21 20:56:14
Subject: Leviathans: The Great War steampunk airship combat from Catalyst
Despite my initial hesitation I ended up backing it at the ensign level. Looks like 500k is pretty much assured at this point, so at least all 5 factions get the 2nd battleship. Unfortunately 120 bucks is all I can do at the moment, later on closer to fulfilment I might add more to the order if it's possible.
2022/08/22 01:11:30
Subject: Leviathans: The Great War steampunk airship combat from Catalyst
Off topic question but why would you put the guns on top of the ship?
Unable to shoot at the ground except in a 'death dive'.
Any other ships get under you and you are stuffed.
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2022/08/22 01:35:10
Subject: Leviathans: The Great War steampunk airship combat from Catalyst
because most people who want steampunk airships are really just naval warfare weebs that want their ships to fly.
The reality is that if you could construct flying warships that rely on aerostatic lift, you would need to hang the guns from below, because if your center of mass (those gun turrets are really heavy) is above your center of lift all whats going to happen is your airship is going to roll over until your center of lift is above your center of mass. Even if you could ballast and balance the weight so that the center of mass wasn't above your center of lift, you probably would not want to because if the vessel maneuvers it risks the center of mass shifting and causing a rollover.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2022/08/22 02:12:57
Subject: Leviathans: The Great War steampunk airship combat from Catalyst
Some of the ships do have downward facing guns on the renders they've shown, it's just that they look like smaller anti fighter/anti infantry guns. I think the german battleship has maybe 8 (edit: looks like 10) of them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/22 02:15:04
2022/08/22 05:55:17
Subject: Leviathans: The Great War steampunk airship combat from Catalyst
Waaagh_Gonads wrote: Off topic question but why would you put the guns on top of the ship?
Unable to shoot at the ground except in a 'death dive'.
Any other ships get under you and you are stuffed.
Same reason airplanes have bomb bays instead of turret naval guns on the underside - gravity.
On naval ships, turrets aren't clamped on or such, they "float" on a ring of ball bearings and the turret itself runs deep into the ship. We're talking tons of weight is what holds them in place. Often, when such a ship rolls at sea (when sinking), the turrets can actually fall out. Put that in the bottom of the ship, and you've got to create superstructure to hold literal tons in place (a single "bullet" can be hundreds of pounds) - structure that could have been used for weapons, such as bomb bays, rockets or torpedoes. Check out, for example, the structural differences between a WW2 B-17 bomber's top turret and the supports it requires to hold the ball turret in place.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/22 05:55:35
It never ends well
2022/08/22 06:21:32
Subject: Leviathans: The Great War steampunk airship combat from Catalyst
Waaagh_Gonads wrote: Off topic question but why would you put the guns on top of the ship?
Unable to shoot at the ground except in a 'death dive'.
Any other ships get under you and you are stuffed.
Same reason airplanes have bomb bays instead of turret naval guns on the underside - gravity.
On naval ships, turrets aren't clamped on or such, they "float" on a ring of ball bearings and the turret itself runs deep into the ship. We're talking tons of weight is what holds them in place. Often, when such a ship rolls at sea (when sinking), the turrets can actually fall out. Put that in the bottom of the ship, and you've got to create superstructure to hold literal tons in place (a single "bullet" can be hundreds of pounds) - structure that could have been used for weapons, such as bomb bays, rockets or torpedoes. Check out, for example, the structural differences between a WW2 B-17 bomber's top turret and the supports it requires to hold the ball turret in place.
Fascinating! I have never heard that before. I foresee being lost in youtube and wikipedia shortly.
2022/08/22 10:30:33
Subject: Leviathans: The Great War steampunk airship combat from Catalyst
thats also correct, but it works on naval vessels because buoyancy in water follows different physical principles than aerostatic lift (even still, unstable topheavy warships are prone to rollover in rough seas or performing aggressive maneuvers).
Automatically Appended Next Post: The 1000pt game video was just posted with the 525k stretch goal update. Heres the link:
I put in a small pledge, just to keep my options open for a Pledge Manager, but I haven't been able to find any of my friends interested yet. Looks like a fun game, but a game I can't play just isn't going to be a game that's worth it.
We'll see- maybe one of them will end up interested.
Yep. They indicated also that they may allow the last two SGs to unlock via additional funds raised in the Pledge Manager too (its basically a given that they will see enough additional funds in the PM to justify it).
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2022/08/23 14:43:22
Subject: Leviathans: The Great War steampunk airship combat from Catalyst
You'll be able to do late pledges once the PM opens up. Catalyst confirmed that late pledges will be at the same price and receive all the same benefits as pledges made during the campaign, so theres no disadvantages to waiting. Just keep an eye on the kickstarter updates for when the PM goes live.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
