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I have said this many times and it bears repeating,

Go Woke and Go Broke.

The Batgirl film was doomed from the beginning because it was not true to the Batgirl character and they should have cast someone who fit the Batgirl fans grew up with.

A mute Chinese ninja.

Anything else is a travesty.

Wait, that can't be right. How is a mute going to speak in a really raspy voice all movie? That's not a real Batperson!

I guarantee you most people do not think of a mute Chinese ninja when they think of Batgirl.

Edit - I'm potentially missing some sarcasm here, tbf.

Casualty wrote:
I guarantee you most people do not think of a mute Chinese ninja when they think of Batgirl.

Edit - I'm potentially missing some sarcasm here, tbf.

You are - Batgirl has been Cassandra Cain for the last 20+ years in the comics.

beast_gts wrote:

Casualty wrote:
I guarantee you most people do not think of a mute Chinese ninja when they think of Batgirl.

Edit - I'm potentially missing some sarcasm here, tbf.

You are - Batgirl has been Cassandra Cain for the last 20+ years in the comics.

No she hasn't.

She became Orphan and the role was taken over by Stephanie Brown. Then there was no Batgirl for a while and now it's Barbara Gordan again. Cain hasn't been Batgirl since 2009.

She (as in Cassandra Cain) is a character who could do with a bit more spotlight, I feel.

 Lance845 wrote:

beast_gts wrote:

Casualty wrote:
I guarantee you most people do not think of a mute Chinese ninja when they think of Batgirl.

Edit - I'm potentially missing some sarcasm here, tbf.

You are - Batgirl has been Cassandra Cain for the last 20+ years in the comics.

No she hasn't.

She became Orphan and the role was taken over by Stephanie Brown. Then there was no Batgirl for a while and now it's Barbara Gordan again. Cain hasn't been Batgirl since 2009.

Actually Barb, Steph, and Cass are ALL “Batgirl” right now.

Well feth. When did that start?

Like I said, the Batgirl movie was binned because it wasn't faithful to the comics!

Batgirl should be a blonde tennis player!

Or maybe a wheelchair bound hacker!

Possibly an Italian Mafia princess in a post-earthquake wasteland!

Definitely something like that.

 Lance845 wrote:
Well feth. When did that start?

The current Batgirls comic started in February, but Barb christened the other two official Batgirls again in the main Batman comic a bit before that.

 AduroT wrote:
The current Batgirls comic started in February, but Barb christened the other two official Batgirls again in the main Batman comic a bit before that.

Well, if I know anything about comics, I'm sure it'll stay this way forever.

Almost no one reads modern comics and hasn't for the last 10ish years. The volume of new comics sold has steadily been decreasing. It's a dying medium so referencing any current or recent storylines will be lost on the vast majority of people who have ever been comic fans.

Everything is a dying medium now days because of piracy and inflation. We still sell thousands of dollars of comics every week and our business is steadily growing.

Casualty wrote:
I guarantee you most people do not think of a mute Chinese ninja when they think of Batgirl.

Edit - I'm potentially missing some sarcasm here, tbf.

I'm mocking the sort of fans who were gleeful that a Batgirl film starring a Dominican American actress failed.

If they're looking for something 'faithful to the comics' then a mute ninja or the daughter of a supervillain is just as valid as an Irish redhead.

A Dominican is barely a change.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bbb wrote:
Almost no one reads modern comics and hasn't for the last 10ish years. The volume of new comics sold has steadily been decreasing. It's a dying medium so referencing any current or recent storylines will be lost on the vast majority of people who have ever been comic fans.

Digital sales (forget piracy) are confidential, unlike paper sales which distributors do weekly estimates of. So we already know sales are higher than what Diamond says, the question is how much.

Living overseas any comics I buy are digital, it's been that way for more than 10 years, I just can't carry and store comics like I used to.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I'm mocking the sort of fans who were gleeful that a Batgirl film starring a Dominican American actress failed.

Where are these gleeful people?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
A Dominican is barely a change.

But, compared to the most common appearance of Barbara, it is another example of Gingerpocalypse.

I still can't fathom how comic sales would be down* considering the insane marketing that the movies must be generating for comics.

Even if only a smaller portion of the customer base are engaging with comics, it should be spiking interest within that market segment constantly.


I could well see that perhaps people are buying fewer physical and more digital or even buying more physical volume and collected editions and less individual issues.



*That is unless a firm is being deliberate in presenting false data or is otherwise stalling/sabotaging/incompetent at serving the market.

@Overread
I suspect that newcomers may be buying more into the existing graphic novels for the characters that they're interested in, and not so much the monthly comic book releases.

 bbb wrote:
Almost no one reads modern comics and hasn't for the last 10ish years. The volume of new comics sold has steadily been decreasing. It's a dying medium so referencing any current or recent storylines will be lost on the vast majority of people who have ever been comic fans.

Correction, nobody purchases individual issues any more. Trade sale have gone up by a lot and subscription services to comic things like Marvel Unlimited have filled in the gap.

 AduroT wrote:
Everything is a dying medium now days because of piracy and inflation. We still sell thousands of dollars of comics every week and our business is steadily growing.

It helps that its a really good store!

 Lance845 wrote:

 bbb wrote:
Almost no one reads modern comics and hasn't for the last 10ish years. The volume of new comics sold has steadily been decreasing. It's a dying medium so referencing any current or recent storylines will be lost on the vast majority of people who have ever been comic fans.

Correction, nobody purchases individual issues any more. Trade sale have gone up by a lot and subscription services to comic things like Marvel Unlimited have filled in the gap.

My point is that in comparison to everyone who used to be comic book fans, the readership for modern comics is significantly smaller. So recent developments and storylines will be lost on people who at one point used to keep up with monthlies. As evidenced in this very thread. While, yes, sales numbers dont tell the whole story anymore, overall readership is WAY down. The movies are not bringing in new readers to current stories (which also is supported by the rise in TPB sales).

When I worked at a comic book store 20 years ago the vast majority of our subscribers were 20-50 year olds. Now, 20 years later, I'd guess most of them dont keep up with current stuff.

Comics have always had these sorts of waves of popularity that mostly come down to the creators working in them. The characters get used up and it takes someone with a fresh take to reignite interest. At the moment, the industry is just lacking that 90's X-Men or Civil War or Countdown kind of story that invests people in the world again. The worlds those stories sparked have been fully explored and we need one with new ideas and more importantly, the right ideas. As much as I love Hickman as an author and as brilliant as his stories are, I think they're just a little too weird and unrelatable to catch a wide audience for example.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Casualty wrote:
I guarantee you most people do not think of a mute Chinese ninja when they think of Batgirl.

Edit - I'm potentially missing some sarcasm here, tbf.

I'm mocking the sort of fans who were gleeful that a Batgirl film starring a Dominican American actress failed.

If they're looking for something 'faithful to the comics' then a mute ninja or the daughter of a supervillain is just as valid as an Irish redhead.

A Dominican is barely a change.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bbb wrote:
Almost no one reads modern comics and hasn't for the last 10ish years. The volume of new comics sold has steadily been decreasing. It's a dying medium so referencing any current or recent storylines will be lost on the vast majority of people who have ever been comic fans.

Digital sales (forget piracy) are confidential, unlike paper sales which distributors do weekly estimates of. So we already know sales are higher than what Diamond says, the question is how much.

Living overseas any comics I buy are digital, it's been that way for more than 10 years, I just can't carry and store comics like I used to.

Aside from 9 incels online, was anyone celebrating it failing expressly because the actress was Dominican?

 bbb wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 bbb wrote:
Almost no one reads modern comics and hasn't for the last 10ish years. The volume of new comics sold has steadily been decreasing. It's a dying medium so referencing any current or recent storylines will be lost on the vast majority of people who have ever been comic fans.

Correction, nobody purchases individual issues any more. Trade sale have gone up by a lot and subscription services to comic things like Marvel Unlimited have filled in the gap.

My point is that in comparison to everyone who used to be comic book fans, the readership for modern comics is significantly smaller. So recent developments and storylines will be lost on people who at one point used to keep up with monthlies. As evidenced in this very thread. While, yes, sales numbers dont tell the whole story anymore, overall readership is WAY down. The movies are not bringing in new readers to current stories (which also is supported by the rise in TPB sales).

When I worked at a comic book store 20 years ago the vast majority of our subscribers were 20-50 year olds. Now, 20 years later, I'd guess most of them dont keep up with current stuff.

I didn't stop reading comics. I have every trade and hardcover cross over/event for the entire Krakoa era of X-Men on my bookshelf. (I might be 2 trade behind right now. Thanks for the reminder.) I stopped reading DC because it's not good. Not because I am not reading comics. There is just no point in following anything in DC when they just reboot the entire comic line every 8 months.

Again, I don't think readership is down. I think the metric for measuring readership has changed.

Another to consider is a good chunk of the high point in comic sales weren’t readers, but speculators. People had just seen stuff like first Superman and what not hit high dollar collectable values. Lots of people purchased comics thinking they could save them to be worth something in the future, and the companies printed tons more copies to match these sales. Course the high print runs and everyone buying them meant they weren’t really all that collectable now because so many were out there, and a good chunk of that died off as a result.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Casualty wrote:
I guarantee you most people do not think of a mute Chinese ninja when they think of Batgirl.

Edit - I'm potentially missing some sarcasm here, tbf.

I'm mocking the sort of fans who were gleeful that a Batgirl film starring a Dominican American actress failed.

If they're looking for something 'faithful to the comics' then a mute ninja or the daughter of a supervillain is just as valid as an Irish redhead.

A Dominican is barely a change.

Gotcha

 AduroT wrote:
Another to consider is a good chunk of the high point in comic sales weren’t readers, but speculators. People had just seen stuff like first Superman and what not hit high dollar collectable values. Lots of people purchased comics thinking they could save them to be worth something in the future, and the companies printed tons more copies to match these sales. Course the high print runs and everyone buying them meant they weren’t really all that collectable now because so many were out there, and a good chunk of that died off as a result.

Yeah I have a few comics I saved from the 90s which was the HEIGHT of the speculation craze. Catwoman number 1. the first apperance of the Azbat armor, the return of superman at the end of the reign of the supermen, I don't think I could buy a McDonald's hamburger for the price they are now. despite being in mint condition.

BrianDavion wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Another to consider is a good chunk of the high point in comic sales weren’t readers, but speculators. People had just seen stuff like first Superman and what not hit high dollar collectable values. Lots of people purchased comics thinking they could save them to be worth something in the future, and the companies printed tons more copies to match these sales. Course the high print runs and everyone buying them meant they weren’t really all that collectable now because so many were out there, and a good chunk of that died off as a result.

Yeah I have a few comics I saved from the 90s which was the HEIGHT of the speculation craze. Catwoman number 1. the first apperance of the Azbat armor, the return of superman at the end of the reign of the supermen, I don't think I could buy a McDonald's hamburger for the price they are now. despite being in mint condition.

You may want to recheck, I'm hearing that back issue prices are climbing again now that 90s babies are grown up and have money in the bank.

In terms of back issues, kind of?

I’ve a 90 volume, £10 a chuck hardback Judge Dredd collection, and am now a mere gnat’s chuff off completing a currently 140 volume, £10 a chuck 2000AD collection.

That alone is £2,300.00 (yes when I put it like that my nipsy does clench) on Old Comic Books.

Totally 100% worth every penny because 2000AD and Judge Dredd rule. Well. Apart from Cal Hab and Caballistics, the first because it’s just not very good, the second because the art style just isn’t my jam and I find it super hard to tell who’s who in any given panel.

Welp, that's officially lost media now.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Welp, that's officially lost media now.

Wouldn't it be funny if it being gone is the real reason it was canceled?
Someone hits the wrong key & "poof", 10s of millions of $s and months of effort disappear.
"Oh F*! Boss, I got some real bad news about that Batgirl project....."