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So my hobby area is in the same room that my wife uses for an office (Teacher). She is currently 30 weeks into pregnancy. We were discussing hobbies that can be pursued with free time which calm us, and she suggested I start painting mini's again. I have a mix of Valejo, GW, Army Painter, and Reaper paints. Are any of these not safe due to fumes to an expecting mother? Obviously she will not be consuming them, but I have noticed that she has strong negative reactions to wall paint, which is a slightly less powerful version of Mini paint. So I am worried that this is a bad idea. Any formerly pregnant hobbists out there with any advice for an overly terrified soon to be dad?

I can't speak with any authority, but I would think most model paints that are acrylic are absolutely safe to use. I'm not so clued up on enamel paints (or indeed spray cans of any sort), but I think as long as safety precautions are adhered to (working in well ventilated areas, wearing gloves, and if dealing with sprays wearing a mask), it should be safe.

EDIT: I believe Citadel, Army Painter and Vallejo paints are, on the whole, acrylic based. If in doubt, check the labels.

Yeah, you'll be fine dude.

I'd ask the manufacturers directly, and probably do a bit of personal research too. I don't know much about toxins myself, so I can't be of more help, but I want to say you're being a good person for your attention to making sure your wife and the upcoming small human are safe. I commend you!

Yeah but come on, these are acrylic paints made to be used by children, in tiny pots, open for small periods at a time. In fact the poster paint kids use probably smells stronger than any acrylic modelling paint I've ever used. It's hardly going to be a bonanza of chemical fumes.

I agree with QAR. Given the level of toxins in the environment generally, whatever comes from you having a bit of acrylic around will be negligible. Comparison to wall paint that gets used in multiple litres at once, compared to the tiny amounts from model painting seems unwarranted. Now dust and volatiles from airbrushes and spray cans may have more of an impact, but not hairy brushing it.


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Basically, keep the ventilation up, and enjoy the painting again!

Probably, but I'm never going to tell you yes, you should contact the manufacturer, check the material safety data sheets, relevant standards and decide for yourself.

You might find they haven't been tested on very young children and pregnant women and the manufacturer may say they don't recommend it for that reason, or maybe it has and they'll say go for it.

They're acrylic, but who knows what solvents have been used to get the lovely flow properties you enjoy. Probably some glycols/ethers, many newer paints have to tell you if there's known allergens, they'll have a bunch of CAS numbers on the side that you can look up. I don't think older ones do though, the standard has become stricter over recent years. This pot of Soulblight Grey says "may cause an allergic reaction" and lists a bunch of CAS numbers, but it doesn't look like any of my Vallejo paints do. My Army Painter Speed Paint is one that personally gave me a reaction, it has a chemical in it that if I look up the SDS sheet basically says "needs more testing", it was corrosive on rabbits, the guinea pigs and mice didn't enjoy inhaling it, and it has some level of acute toxity in rats but the levels required looked pretty high. But I don't imagine it's at a high concentration in the paint but I don't have the SDS for the paint itself to say that for sure.

I'm gonna guess many things simply haven't been tested enough to say they're safe, they are probably safe, but as time goes on more and more things get added to the unsafe list as they get more thoroughly tested. Even the standard indemnifies itself by saying that it doesn't purport to address all safety concerns associated with its use and that it's up to the user to establish appropriate safety and health practices and determine the applicability of regulatory limitations prior to use.

But contact the manufacturer and see what they say, then let us know what they say.

Personally, I tend to be very cautious around little kids and pregnant women because things that larger bodies can shrug off may affect their small developing bodies and most things simply haven't been tested well enough to have great confidence in their safety. I'd probably just use them with good ventilation though and wouldn't set up in the same room that they spend a lot of time in.

Yeah, I'm likely stressing out over nothing, but I wanted to make sure before I do anything. Obviously rattle cans and primers go outside, but the citidel and P3 paints are all listed as Non-toxic. But I worry.

Again I speak with no authority beyond my own limited experience.

But, my wife happily was pregnant and I never stopped hobbying around the house and she managed to carry two happy and healthy little ones (now 4 and 2 years respectively).

I also now have a 4 year old that likes to "help dad" when I paint and he seems perfectly healthy.

If you're willing to ask us you should be willing to call the manufacturer.

I promise they know more then us.

Whether they give out detailed info or just "it's safe" market speech is another thing...I doubt the customer rep there knows what stuff is there anyway...

But brush paint from GW/AP/vallejo I wouldn't worry. That stuff isn't exactly fuming anyway and people digest those stuff anyway...Walking outside near car lanes is likely less healthy as is.

Airbrushing might be good idea to refrain in same area plus stick to acrylic paints.

No fumes, no problem. Most GW paints usually have no smell. Other types may be a bit bad.
Glue though, that's a bit different.

The glue issue is one that I have a fix for. I don't glue there. I glue in the basement with a fan in the window. The only reason I don't paint there is the bad light and it's where the cats do their after meal constitutional, so it makes trying to focus on minute painting very trying. But thank you all for the advice, I feel much relieved.

Even glue shouldn't be an issue. You take the cap off for a few seconds, glue the part then put the cap back on.

Holding a model in one hand, and needing two to un-cap the glue, I often leave the top off for a while.
That depends on the type of glue.

IMO it isn't something to worry about. Yeah, theoretically you could obsess over the MSDS for every ingredient in your hobby supplies but you aren't working in a factory where you deal with this stuff by the ton and the entire building is full of fumes. You're dealing with an occasional use of very small quantities of something that is marked as being non-toxic and the person that matters is on the other side of the room from it. Even if there's some ingredient in the paint that is technically a risk the dose amount you're talking about is ridiculously tiny and if you want to avoid exposures on that level you should never be leaving a sealed room at your own house.

But if you're really worried about it just take a break from painting for a few months. Peace of mind is worth more than a few more painted models.

Steiner wrote:I can't speak with any authority, but I would think most model paints that are acrylic are absolutely safe to use. I'm not so clued up on enamel paints (or indeed spray cans of any sort), but I think as long as safety precautions are adhered to (working in well ventilated areas, wearing gloves, and if dealing with sprays wearing a mask), it should be safe.

EDIT: I believe Citadel, Army Painter and Vallejo paints are, on the whole, acrylic based. If in doubt, check the labels.

Acrylic doesn't mean its just water, pigment and binder. Some acrylics are alcohol based like Tamiyas line of paints. Acrylic should be safer but it's not always.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:Probably, but I'm never going to tell you yes, you should contact the manufacturer, check the material safety data sheets, relevant standards and decide for yourself.

You might find they haven't been tested on very young children and pregnant women and the manufacturer may say they don't recommend it for that reason, or maybe it has and they'll say go for it.

They're acrylic, but who knows what solvents have been used to get the lovely flow properties you enjoy. Probably some glycols/ethers, many newer paints have to tell you if there's known allergens, they'll have a bunch of CAS numbers on the side that you can look up. I don't think older ones do though, the standard has become stricter over recent years. This pot of Soulblight Grey says "may cause an allergic reaction" and lists a bunch of CAS numbers, but it doesn't look like any of my Vallejo paints do. My Army Painter Speed Paint is one that personally gave me a reaction, it has a chemical in it that if I look up the SDS sheet basically says "needs more testing", it was corrosive on rabbits, the guinea pigs and mice didn't enjoy inhaling it, and it has some level of acute toxity in rats but the levels required looked pretty high. But I don't imagine it's at a high concentration in the paint but I don't have the SDS for the paint itself to say that for sure.

I'm gonna guess many things simply haven't been tested enough to say they're safe, they are probably safe, but as time goes on more and more things get added to the unsafe list as they get more thoroughly tested. Even the standard indemnifies itself by saying that it doesn't purport to address all safety concerns associated with its use and that it's up to the user to establish appropriate safety and health practices and determine the applicability of regulatory limitations prior to use.

But contact the manufacturer and see what they say, then let us know what they say.

Personally, I tend to be very cautious around little kids and pregnant women because things that larger bodies can shrug off may affect their small developing bodies and most things simply haven't been tested well enough to have great confidence in their safety. I'd probably just use them with good ventilation though and wouldn't set up in the same room that they spend a lot of time in.

Let's go back to good old fashioned lead paints!! Cheap and great coverage!!

On a serious note, could you explain the speed paint thing please? I've just started using them and I'm curious what issues they could cause. I'm very health conscious and haven't heard any issues with them yet.

OP should also check things like putties. A lot of the tube based ones have nasty warnings labels. Cancer and screwing up your testicle are among the warnings next to potential birth defects. Using and sanding those might not end well, so definitely check for a safe putty for gap filling.

Yo7 wrote:

Spoiler:

Steiner wrote:I can't speak with any authority, but I would think most model paints that are acrylic are absolutely safe to use. I'm not so clued up on enamel paints (or indeed spray cans of any sort), but I think as long as safety precautions are adhered to (working in well ventilated areas, wearing gloves, and if dealing with sprays wearing a mask), it should be safe.

EDIT: I believe Citadel, Army Painter and Vallejo paints are, on the whole, acrylic based. If in doubt, check the labels.

Acrylic doesn't mean its just water, pigment and binder. Some acrylics are alcohol based like Tamiyas line of paints. Acrylic should be safer but it's not always.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:Probably, but I'm never going to tell you yes, you should contact the manufacturer, check the material safety data sheets, relevant standards and decide for yourself.

You might find they haven't been tested on very young children and pregnant women and the manufacturer may say they don't recommend it for that reason, or maybe it has and they'll say go for it.

They're acrylic, but who knows what solvents have been used to get the lovely flow properties you enjoy. Probably some glycols/ethers, many newer paints have to tell you if there's known allergens, they'll have a bunch of CAS numbers on the side that you can look up. I don't think older ones do though, the standard has become stricter over recent years. This pot of Soulblight Grey says "may cause an allergic reaction" and lists a bunch of CAS numbers, but it doesn't look like any of my Vallejo paints do. My Army Painter Speed Paint is one that personally gave me a reaction, it has a chemical in it that if I look up the SDS sheet basically says "needs more testing", it was corrosive on rabbits, the guinea pigs and mice didn't enjoy inhaling it, and it has some level of acute toxity in rats but the levels required looked pretty high. But I don't imagine it's at a high concentration in the paint but I don't have the SDS for the paint itself to say that for sure.

I'm gonna guess many things simply haven't been tested enough to say they're safe, they are probably safe, but as time goes on more and more things get added to the unsafe list as they get more thoroughly tested. Even the standard indemnifies itself by saying that it doesn't purport to address all safety concerns associated with its use and that it's up to the user to establish appropriate safety and health practices and determine the applicability of regulatory limitations prior to use.

But contact the manufacturer and see what they say, then let us know what they say.

Personally, I tend to be very cautious around little kids and pregnant women because things that larger bodies can shrug off may affect their small developing bodies and most things simply haven't been tested well enough to have great confidence in their safety. I'd probably just use them with good ventilation though and wouldn't set up in the same room that they spend a lot of time in.

Let's go back to good old fashioned lead paints!! Cheap and great coverage!!

On a serious note, could you explain the speed paint thing please? I've just started using them and I'm curious what issues they could cause. I'm very health conscious and haven't heard any issues with them yet.

OP should also check things like putties. A lot of the tube based ones have nasty warnings labels. Cancer and screwing up your testicle are among the warnings next to potential birth defects. Using and sanding those might not end well, so definitely check for a safe putty for gap filling.

I'm not making any statement on whether they are safe or not, just going through the process I would with other chemicals (if I was at work or similar) on deciding if and how to use it.

Army Painter Speedpaints do give me a reaction, it could maybe be described as an allergic reaction, not sure. I have sensitivities to a lot of chemicals due to other health issues, so I'm not surprised to have a reaction from the Speedpaints, BUT, this is the first "regular acrylic" that I've noticed as significant a reaction to (I do have a reaction to Tamiya acrylics, but they are alcohol based). I also do have a tendency to "lick" my brushes, I do try to use a tissue but sometimes if I need to quickly reform the tip to blend an edge on a drying paint I'll clean the brush off in water and reform it with my lips... and AP Speedpaint tastes horrible even when I've rinsed it off the brush After the first time I haven't done it again when using AP Speedpaints.

All I did was look at the side of the bottle, it says "Conforms to ASTM D-4236. Contains reaction mass of 5-chloro-2-methyl-4-isothiazolin-3-one and 2-methyl-2h isothiazol-3-one 3:1. May produce an allergic reaction."

It's odd to have the actual chemicals listed like that, normally they state a CAS number and you have to google the CAS number to find out what chemical it is. In this case I just googled the name of the chemical and found an SDS (Safety Data Sheet) for a 1.2% solution of that chemical in water. The SDS said some of the things that I mentioned in my post, which is basically a lot of categories have "no data available", it specifically says next it to Reproductive toxicity (alongside carcinogenicity and germ cell mutagenicity and organ toxicity).

11.1 Information on toxicological effects
Mixture
Acute toxicity
LD50 Oral - Rat - female - 2,630 mg/kg
LD50 Oral - Rat - male - 3,350 mg/kg
Oral: No data available
Symptoms: If ingested, severe burns of the mouth and throat, as well as a danger of
perforation of the esophagus and the stomach.
Acute toxicity estimate Inhalation - 4 h - > 20 mg/l - vapor(Calculation method)

Symptoms: mucosal irritations, Cough, Shortness of breath, Possible damages:, damage of
respiratory tract
LD50 Dermal - > 5,000 mg/kg

Skin corrosion/irritation
Skin - Rabbit
Result: Corrosive
Mixture causes burns.

Serious eye damage/eye irritation
Eyes - Rabbit
Result: Corrosive

Mixture causes serious eye damage. Risk of blindness!
Respiratory or skin sensitization
Mixture may cause an allergic skin reaction.

Germ cell mutagenicity
No data available

Carcinogenicity
No data available

Reproductive toxicity
No data available

Specific target organ toxicity - single exposure
No data available

Specific target organ toxicity - repeated exposure
No data available

Aspiration hazard
No data available

Now, I have no idea what % is used in the Army Painter product, and I have no idea if it is actually dangerous or not, but even the SDS doesn't know if it's dangerous. But the AP product still conforms to ASTM D-4236 which would require warnings if it were a danger to pregnant women, but then you have to ask the question who decides if it's a danger to pregnant women? As far as I can see it's not been tested enough to say it's safe.

I think the reality of a lot of chemicals we use is that they haven't been tested enough to know they're safe, they probably are, but maybe some of them aren't. Obviously we aren't seeing a lot of hobbyists dropping dead at their tables, so the acute toxicity is low to non-existent, but in terms of long term toxicity and toxicity to very young kids or pregnant women is naturally going to be less well known.

Personally, I wouldn't want my inconsequential hobby to be the result of future health problems for my kids, so even though I think the risk is tiny, I would still take measures to ensure I was doing my hobbying in a different area to where very young kids or pregnant women might be.

If one ever has a question of what is in their paints, or if those ingredients are indeed toxic, one can readily ask for the MSDS for them from the makers of said paints.
It is in fact illegal for them to deny anyone asking for this information.
Material Safety Data Sheets will list all ingredients and the effects of exposure to them, and what to do in case one is exposed.

I’ve looked at all of the MSDS for PP, GW, and Vallejo. Nothing in any of those will cause an adverse reaction in the vast majority of people, unless of course you’re drinking the stuff by the pot full.

Paint fumes from wall paint are another matter entirely, and the reason they likely bother your wife, is because they are enamel based acrylic, and are spread across entire rooms of the home when the project is in full swing.
I can’t even smell an open pot of mini paint. So I’m almost 100% certain your pregnant wife will be fine. Unless of course she starts guzzling your paint pots….