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Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Now that we've had a few weekends' worth of tournament results to look at, it seems that most competitive Votann builds are Kronus for melee-heavy or Ymyr for shooty builds. The most recent Goonhammer Competitive Innovations article features one of each kind of list that made it to top tables this past weekend, with a mention of one player doing well with a Urani-Surtr list as well. I really shouldn't be surprised that Kronus is doing well as it's basically Bloody Rose Sisters but with short angry guys instead of nuns. I'm honestly surprised we haven't seen a Greater Thurian League list doing well yet; I honestly figured they'd be a top contender.

Speaking of GTL, here's a list I cooked up. I'd be curious to hear anyone's thoughts on it:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/807907.page
I like the idea of mechanized infantry enough that I might actually try this assuming I can come up with three more Sagitaurs. I won't have my full Votann army ready for play before next spring though (kinda short on $$$ at the moment), so it's all theorycrafting at this point.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
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Dakka Veteran





Just waiting for Flame-weapons to also inflict friendly fire now then.

Surely if Beam-weapons inflict friendly fire, then Flame-weapons should have an even bigger propensity to do so?

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Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin






im a little confused by that FAQ... it says you can hit units it crosses over but nowhere does it say including the unit it is in.
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




There are two things this could mean, the trolls are getting very excited about (2) because it looks like a really good wind up opportunity. I'm amazed it hasn't reached YMDC yet.

1) You can hit a friendly model in your own (greater than one model) unit.

Makes sense to me. If you don't want to do this, don't stand the beam weapon dude/dudette/robodude at the back of your unit and shoot through it.

2) A single model unit firing it's beam weapon will hit itself because they'll argue that "when you draw the line for the beam weapon it starts on the base of the model firing it."

I don't even care if this is technically RAW correct or not, because if you play 40k with a normal peron it shouldn't come up just like 8th edition assault weapons. And if you then meet that guy in a tournament and have to call over a TO, that TO is not going to be impressed and is going to rule in your favour. There are always exceptions, if you go to a 6 player tournament in Smallsville and the TO is either incompetent or corrupt you could get ruled against... At which point you just accept your fate and chalk it up as the price of knowing which venue/organiser to avoid in future.
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin






but why is the beam any different from a bolter etc... those guys shoot through members of their own unit without issue, why would the beam hit a member of the firing unit?

its probably a moot point until clarified if ever.
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine




Sacratomato

GW is dumb.....like Politician level dumb.

70% of all statistics are made up on the spot by 64% of the people that produce false statistics 54% of the time that they produce them. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Da-Rock wrote:
GW is dumb.....like Politician level dumb.


They barred people from playing their own games in their own stores. It makes about as much sense as a burger joint where you aren't allowed to eat ground beef.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/12/02 06:07:58


 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Looks like Ymyr Land Fortresses with all the beams are the current hotness. Just don't have any of your guys standing in front of one!

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran





So lates update brings the following changes to LoV:

Khâl +10 pts
E. Champion +10 pts
Grimnyr +10 pts
Land Fortress +10 pts
Warriors +1 ppm
Berserks +3 ppm

Thunderkyn -5 ppm

Honestly reaching a point where I'd rather they nerf our units than keep increasing their pointcost, it's getting hard to maintain diversity in listbuilding when everything is so god damn expensive...

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Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin






yeah i never felt like votann should be a low model count elite army.
they're making it go that way minus the elite part.
is the hekaton really worth 310?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

With tactical Marines getting free weapons I think our troops, when kitted out, may be more points per model now.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

 cuda1179 wrote:
With tactical Marines getting free weapons I think our troops, when kitted out, may be more points per model now.

Not quite, but it's closer than it should be, especially if you absolutely bling your Hearthkyn squads to the nines. 10 Tacticals are 180 points; most blinged-out Hearthkyn units I see around are 150-160-ish (increase those by 10 of course now that they've gone up again). On the plus side, we don't need as many troops with the new Arks of Omen detachments. We can take more Fast Attack now, which means we can have 3 units of bikes plus a couple of Sagitaurs if we want to (and neither of those went up in cost!).

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

 ZergSmasher wrote:
 cuda1179 wrote:
With tactical Marines getting free weapons I think our troops, when kitted out, may be more points per model now.

Not quite, but it's closer than it should be, especially if you absolutely bling your Hearthkyn squads to the nines. 10 Tacticals are 180 points; most blinged-out Hearthkyn units I see around are 150-160-ish (increase those by 10 of course now that they've gone up again). On the plus side, we don't need as many troops with the new Arks of Omen detachments. We can take more Fast Attack now, which means we can have 3 units of bikes plus a couple of Sagitaurs if we want to (and neither of those went up in cost!).


You're right. I was assuming Fist, plasma pistol, plasmagun, missile for both sides, but forgot that I also included a medic, etc. for the squats. WIthout the specialist guys the Squats would be 170 to the marine's 180.

Squats are slightly killier, but less durable, slower, and less flexible. Not to mention have worse support.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




 usernamesareannoying wrote:
yeah i never felt like votann should be a low model count elite army.
they're making it go that way minus the elite part.
is the hekaton really worth 310?


Supported yes, without the brokhyr and strats in the proper subfaction, no.

The issue of modern 40k


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 cuda1179 wrote:
With tactical Marines getting free weapons I think our troops, when kitted out, may be more points per model now.


Of course, in bad news for everyone who bought them, hearthkyn have NO place in our armies now

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/08 18:42:49


 
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran





Yepp, getting less and less reason to field Hearthkyn. Might as well go with Bikes instead with the new detatchment.

It's been obvious already since the hamfisted pre-launch-nerf that GW playtested LoV way to little, and have no real clue on how to balance the army.

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Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

The first nerf was necessary; the book as written was probably the most busted book of 9th edition hands down. After that nerf and people started actually playing the faction in tournaments it was reasonably balanced, putting up some strong finishes but nothing overwhelming. Not sure what made GW think a second round of nerfs was necessary but here we are.

Bikes and vehicles may be the way to go now, with a unit of Hearthguard or Beserks for some counterpunch vs. melee armies. Personally I think both of those units are overcosted now, but they are what we have. Thunderkyn got a points drop but are most likely still not good (grav ones in Ymyr have me raising an eyebrow though in a pure shooty build). One unit of Hearthkyn could be useful for the Troops-specific objectives; put them in a pair of Sagitaurs and you can have them be in two places at once.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in se
Dakka Veteran





 ZergSmasher wrote:
The first nerf was necessary; the book as written was probably the most busted book of 9th edition hands down.


It was, but it was also way too ham-fisted. They nerfed everything, even stuff that didn't need nerfing (like Thunderkyn) - because they lacked data and acted in panic due to LoV getting banned in a tournament.


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Fresh-Faced New User




Hi all. Only played a small game with my Votann which probably didn't give me a full flavour of the Thurian League, but nevertheless I would like to try something different in my next game.

Is anyone experienced out there of trying both the invulnerable save Ymyr and the plus one toughness Urani?

I think both would complement the Land Fortress x 2 that I have? Also, my infantry died slightly quicker than expected!

Cheers
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




 MinscS2 wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
The first nerf was necessary; the book as written was probably the most busted book of 9th edition hands down.


It was, but it was also way too ham-fisted. They nerfed everything, even stuff that didn't need nerfing (like Thunderkyn) - because they lacked data and acted in panic due to LoV getting banned in a tournament.



This wasn't why GW panicked, that tournament bans all pre faq books
   
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Not all. Not on that scale.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
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stratigo wrote:
 MinscS2 wrote:
 ZergSmasher wrote:
The first nerf was necessary; the book as written was probably the most busted book of 9th edition hands down.


It was, but it was also way too ham-fisted. They nerfed everything, even stuff that didn't need nerfing (like Thunderkyn) - because they lacked data and acted in panic due to LoV getting banned in a tournament.



This wasn't why GW panicked, that tournament bans all pre faq books


This is straight up false...

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Longtime Dakkanaut





 ZergSmasher wrote:
The first nerf was necessary; the book as written was probably the most busted book of 9th edition hands down. After that nerf and people started actually playing the faction in tournaments it was reasonably balanced, putting up some strong finishes but nothing overwhelming. Not sure what made GW think a second round of nerfs was necessary but here we are.

Bikes and vehicles may be the way to go now, with a unit of Hearthguard or Beserks for some counterpunch vs. melee armies. Personally I think both of those units are overcosted now, but they are what we have. Thunderkyn got a points drop but are most likely still not good (grav ones in Ymyr have me raising an eyebrow though in a pure shooty build). One unit of Hearthkyn could be useful for the Troops-specific objectives; put them in a pair of Sagitaurs and you can have them be in two places at once.


Could you elaborate more on your thoughts on Grav Thunderkyn in Ymir?
Why do you think they are a good option?
   
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Dakka Veteran





 dan2026 wrote:

Could you elaborate more on your thoughts on Grav Thunderkyn in Ymir?
Why do you think they are a good option?


Probably because Grav is pretty good with the main drawback being poor range - and Ymir counteract this drawback somewhat.

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Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

 MinscS2 wrote:
 dan2026 wrote:

Could you elaborate more on your thoughts on Grav Thunderkyn in Ymir?
Why do you think they are a good option?


Probably because Grav is pretty good with the main drawback being poor range - and Ymir counteract this drawback somewhat.

This, exactly. There has been some success with them already.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Denison, Iowa

Well, looks like we will have Jump pack Hearthkyn in the not too distant future, according to the Adepticon preview. Anyone thinking pistol and CCW squats with jump packs have a use?
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

It's looking more like there's a jump pack for exactly one guy; I'm not even sure if that will have any 40k rules (unlike the HYLas Rotary Cannon, which will almost certainly be added to the list of specials Hearthkyn can take). If they do add a full unit of jump guys, it probably won't be until the second wave of Votann units arrives along with their 10th edition codex. Far too early to speculate.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin






after seeing some of the data cards anyone have any thoughts on how things are gonna play out for votann?
i'm still trying to decide on how i want to build my warriors
one more week to wait for our data cards i guess.
   
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Denison, Iowa

I have to say that I am very glad to see Votann being more hordy and less elite. I always felt their spot was "kinda like a Marine scout, perhaps with extra perks". They should be outnumbered by IG, outnumber marines.
   
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Evasive Eshin Assassin






what do you think the odds are of seeing new units in the data cards tomorrow?
probably pretty slim huh?
i thought maybe theyd give us a treat and turn some of the killteam stuff in to units.
man id really love some kind of dreadnaught though...
one more day to go
   
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Denison, Iowa

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
what do you think the odds are of seeing new units in the data cards tomorrow?
probably pretty slim huh?
i thought maybe theyd give us a treat and turn some of the killteam stuff in to units.
man id really love some kind of dreadnaught though...
one more day to go


I know it's not going to happen, but I wish they'd port over that Necromunda mini-dread thing, just for Variety. That or some Ironkyn XXL sized things.
   
 
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