The explanation from Aecus was a bit unclear I had to re-read everything again.
So what you are saying is basically
GW cant English and have (yet again) deliberately made a poor job of the rule? (they have done that before so wouldn't be surprised).
So there was confusion on the words contains and embarked (as that can mean the same thing).
So the original devilfish ability is:
Drone Dock: If this unit contains any DRONE models, those DRONE models begin the battle docked with this unit’s DEVILFISH model.
And it should read?, if what you are saying is correct?:
Drone Dock: If this unit has been equipped with any DRONE models, those DRONE models begin the battle docked with this unit’s DEVILFISH model.
(meaning if the devilfish unit is equipped with gun drones, instead of smart missile systems).
This is just unclear.
Aecus Decimus wrote:
Putting drones in a Devilfish as passengers does not make ~ the Devilfish unit contain them
…. Yes it does,
GW has not defined 'contain' like they have with 'embarked'. So we have to use a dictionary (contains = have or hold (someone or something) within).
Well using the dictionary as above, if the drones are in / within / inside / held within (you get the point) then they are contained.
Using the
GW abilities if they are contained then they are docked.
Using the
GW abilities if they are docked then the drones behave as I have described.
I'm not sure that your view is correct (not saying its wrong), as the Drone Dock ability is also used on the tidewall droneport, hammerhead and skyray with the same wording.
Yet the wording for the drone dock ability is different in the below units:
Sun Shark Bomber - Drone Dock: This unit’s INTERCEPTOR DRONE models begin the battle docked with this unit’s SUN SHARK BOMBER model.
Piranhas - Drone Dock: For each PIRANHA model in this unit, two of this unit’s DRONE models begin the battle docked with that PIRANHA model.
So comparing the language, "If this unit contains any DRONE models" compared to "this unit’s DRONE models", there is a clear difference.
I think the difference is in units where they may not take a drone (like the devilfish, droneport, hammerhead and skyray can all take either none (droneport) or something without the drone key word (other units listed)).
Where as the Sun Shark and Piranhas only take drones equipped with the unit.
but that still does not explain why they don't have the same language for all of them "this unit’s DRONE models", which would be clear and still work if they don't have drones.
They clearly state "any" drone models.
Additionally the only drones listed in these units that can be equipped are Gun Drone, Marker Drone and Shield Drone yet all drones have the 'Docked Drone' ability (implying that all drones can use this ability).
Docked Drone - If this model is docked with another:
Any weapons this model is equipped with are considered to be equipped to the model it is docked with instead.
Attacks cannot be allocated to this model and it does not count as a model on the battlefield for any rules purposes.
If the model it is docked with is destroyed, this DRONE model is destroyed as well.
This is why I think that the drones 'embarked' on a devilfish (or droneport for that matter, any unit with the Drone Dock ability) can be Docked Drones.
The issue I have here is
GW suddenly using the words “ contains any” in a transport units ability information. Who the hell wrote this?
I get that it may not be what
GW was aiming for (maybe, still not clear on that) but it certainly is what it says.
And yes to clarify before anyone steps in, that devilfish is clear in transporting infantry or drones. The droneport / tidewall only says transport of infantry (then gives a complicated space capacity to wounds information for models). The tidewall has Terrain Feature ability were it becomes a terrain feature and not a building, and the drones have “For the purposes of interacting with terrain feature s, DRONE models count as having the INFANTRY keyword”.
If you disagree with plan A then plan B still applies:
As for the marksman in the transport and the drones being separate models and not needing to travel in the transport, this is an argument that has raged before (as past editions allowed drones to go off and do what ever, and that made sense).
The solution to that argument, if I remember, was that
GW just added a stratagem 'Designated Tasking stratagem' to split the drones from the unit into a new unit of only drones. Something that I would do with the Firesight Marksman unit anyway to take full advantage of the 6” range of the marksman ability (I should have made that clearer).
There is still an argument that the vehicles Drone Dock ability only specifies that "those DRONE models begin the battle docked with this unit’s model" and that the drones can just float off and do there own thing after the beginning of battle (within unit coherency / 2” of the other models in the unit), which is something that goon hammer article misses completely (that covered this separation of docked drones and questioned what it means for per-model / per unit scoring).
Designated Tasking is not for the Drone Dock ability, instead it is for separating drones from any unit and creating a new drone keyword only unit. It happens to also include docked drones.
(I have been tempted to try this with a Shas’o R’alai
HQ unit and its Blacklight Marker Drones just to see what they can do by themselves).
So to throw your own words back at you (which you didnt back up with any actual information)
"In short: unfortunately you're confused about the rules and none of this stuff works."
Automatically Appended Next Post: I did not want a debate on the rules on this one, just if the idea behind it made sense.
Why do conversations on this forum always turn like this.
If we just take it as it works like that (as yet again
GW cant English), would it make sense? (plan A or plan B?)
Or is ther a better way to get use out of the Firesight Marksman?
Just trying to get the best use out of these units.