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Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

There is this daemonic allies rule which gives all units in a daemons detachment the AGENT OF CHAOS keyword, allowing a CHAOS army to retain their detachment abilities.

A LEGIONES DAEMONICA detachment is one that only includes models with the LEGIONES DAEMONICA keyword (excluding models with the AGENT OF CHAOS or UNALIGNED keywords.)

LEGIONES DAEMONICA detachments gain the daemonic allies, daemonic legions and daemonic relics abilities.


DAEMONIC ALLIES

Daemonic Pact
If your army includes one LEGIONES DAEMONICA detachment, and the combined power ratings of all units in that detachment make up no more than 25% of your armys power level, then until the end of the battle, every unit in that detachment gains the AGENT OF CHAOS keyword.


When i create such a detachment every unit in it gains the AGENT OF CHAOS keyword. But then its not a LEGIONES DAEMONICA detachment anymore, because this requires all units to have the LEGIONES DAEMONICA keyword, but all units have the AGENT OF CHAOS keyword, all units are excluded, which means there is no unit with the LEGIONES DAEMONICA keyword in this detachment. And because its not a LEGIONES DAEMONICA detachment anymore, i dont get access to daemonic allies, because this requires a LEGIONES DAEMONICA detachment. Is this right ?
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

No it is not right.

You are overthinking it.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




They don't lose the LEGIONES DAEMONICA keyword, they just gain the AGENT OF CHAOS keyword. Look at the Daemonic Allies rule you quoted. It doesn't tell you to remove any existing keywords.
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Slipspace wrote:
They don't lose the LEGIONES DAEMONICA keyword, they just gain the AGENT OF CHAOS keyword. Look at the Daemonic Allies rule you quoted. It doesn't tell you to remove any existing keywords.


Yes, they both have LEGIONES DAEMONICA and AGENT OF CHAOS. But units with AGENT OF CHAOS are excluded when it comes to determining if its a LEGIONES DAEMONICA detachment. All units have AGENT OF CHAOS, all are excluded. The detachment has no more LEGIONES DAEMONICA units which would count to determine if its a LEGIONES DAEMONICA detachment.
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

At that point it doesn't matter anymore... you have already made your army.

"If your army includes one LEGIONES DAEMONICA detachment"

Only after you have built your list does this take effect...

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

 DeathReaper wrote:
At that point it doesn't matter anymore... you have already made your army.

"If your army includes one LEGIONES DAEMONICA detachment"

Only after you have built your list does this take effect...


It doesnt say "If your army has included one LEGIONES DAEMONICA detachment". Includes is present, not past.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




The first rule you quoted just means AGENTS OF CHAOS units in a LD detachment don't stop it from counting as a LD detachment. It defines what a LD Detachment is. It doesn't mean AOC can't also be LD.

The rule works as it should. The allied detachment gets the LD detachment abilities.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/30 10:19:13


 
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 p5freak wrote:
 DeathReaper wrote:
At that point it doesn't matter anymore... you have already made your army.

"If your army includes one LEGIONES DAEMONICA detachment"

Only after you have built your list does this take effect...


It doesnt say "If your army has included one LEGIONES DAEMONICA detachment". Includes is present, not past.
It says "If your army includes"...


This is after you have mustered your army, not during.

You are overthinking it. Don't.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Oh look Baconcatbug in disguise again doing his thing.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

The rule could have been written better, but that is not important. Your argument has a recursive issue.

If the Legion Daemonica detachment is not more than 25% of the army size, all the models gain Agents of Chaos.

But if all the units are all Agents of Chaos, then it isn’t a Legion Daemonica detachment.

If it isn’t a Legion Daemonica detachment, they didn’t gain Agents of Chaos.

So they are a Legion Daemonica detachment!

Repeat.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Except luckily that argument fails, like all their "arguments" do.
Yet another p5 thread. Nothing to see here. Move along
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Removed - stop it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/30 20:09:01


 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought





Eye of Terror

I think there's some misunderstanding of what the rule actually says.

The wording of Agent of Chaos in the CSM Codex reads as such:

"A CHAOS SPACE MARINES Detachment is one that only includes models with the TRAITORIS ASTARTES keyword (excluding models with the AGENT OF CHAOS or UNALIGNED keyword)."

The language is procedural. It says check to see every model has TA, exclude any that have AOC or UA.

If a model has TA, AOC and UA don't matter. There's no reason to proceed to the second condition so long as the first is satisfied. The second condition would only be relevant to models that don't have TA.

   
 
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