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Made in fi
Fresh-Faced New User




So beam weapons are defined like this:

Some Votann weapons have the Beam ability. Each time an attack is made with such a weapon, if a hit is scored, draw a line between the closest point of this model’s base (or hull) and that of the closest model in the target unit. Make one wound roll against the target unit, and each other unit this line passes over (excluding units that were not eligible to be targeted by this weapon when targets were selected). When a VEHICLE model makes an attack with beam weapons that targets an enemy unit in Engagement Range of it, that attack is only resolved against that target unit and it cannot hit any other unit.


Seems simple so far. Now when shooting with a SP conversion beamer:
Beam. Each time an attack made with this weapon hits a unit, if the unit that was hit is wholly more than 15" from the firing model, one additional hit is scored against that unit.


Does the extra hit trigger on the units in between?
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




No. The beam weapon states: "Each time an attack is made with such a weapon, if a hit is scored, [effects]". An additional hit is not an additional attack, and thus doesn't meet the requirements for the Beam weapon effects to trigger a second time.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





EDIT: My immediate response was 'yes', but now I'm not sure

I think JakeSiren is right. The intervening unit was never 'hit' in the normal gameplay sense.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/11/15 17:17:22


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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





I think ”Scoring Additional Hits” from the Rare Rules applies here, so the additional hit for the target being more than 15” away wouldn’t generate any extra wound rolls on intervening units.


SCORING ADDITIONAL HITS
When a model makes an attack, some rules will let that attack score one or more additional hits on a particular hit roll (e.g. ‘each time an attack is made with this weapon, an unmodified hit roll of 6 scores 1 additional hit’). If the attacking model is also benefiting from any other rules that trigger on a particular hit roll (e.g. ‘each time an attack is made with this weapon, an unmodified hit roll of 6 automatically wounds the target’), then only the original attack benefits from those rules. If any additional hits are scored as the result of a particular hit roll, those additional hits are not considered to have been made with any hit roll – they simply hit the target and you must continue the attack sequence for them (i.e. make a wound roll).

If a hit roll scores additional hits, those additional hits do not benefit from any other rule that triggered on the original attack’s hit roll.
   
Made in ca
Fully-charged Electropriest






From the new Votann FAQ:

Q: If an attack with a beam weapon scores one or more additional
hits on the target, do those additional hits also trigger wound rolls
against any intervening units?

A: Yes. Each time an additional hit is scored against the target, that
hit counts as its own attack, and so will cause a wound roll to be
made against any intervening units

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/01 06:12:45


 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

I dont understand why this needed a FAQ. The wording was clear. Make one wound roll against the target unit, and each other unit this line passes over..... It doesnt say each other enemy unit this line passes over, so its for friendly units also.
   
Made in gb
Lord of the Fleet






London

 p5freak wrote:
I dont understand why this needed a FAQ. The wording was clear. Make one wound roll against the target unit, and each other unit this line passes over..... It doesnt say each other enemy unit this line passes over, so its for friendly units also.


I think it's more for abilities which proc extra hits/attacks. I can see it being a grey area as to wherever the intervening units also suffer the extra hit. The annoying this is now the FAQ-trolls are claiming it'll now always affect the firing unit, as the line will have to be touching the firing model in the first place.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Touching the edge of isn't the same as crossing.
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




The original wording was:

ome Votann weapons have the Beam ability. Each time an attack is made with such a weapon, if a hit is scored, draw a line between the closest point of this model’s base (or hull) and that of the closest model in the target unit. Make one wound roll against the target unit, and each other unit this line passes over (excluding units that were not eligible to be targeted by this weapon when targets were selected). When a VEHICLE model makes an attack with beam weapons that targets an enemy unit in Engagement Range of it, that attack is only resolved against that target unit and it cannot hit any other unit.


It says "(excluding units that were not eligible to be targeted by this weapon when targets were selected)" which meant it excluded:
- Enemy units protected by look out sir.
- Enemy units the shooting model couldn't see. If you are trying to picture this, consider a Hekkatruck firing at a 24W Knight through obscuring terrain but there is a 12W Armiger also sitting behind the obscuring terrain but in the line between the Hekkatrukk and Knight.
- Friendly units as they are not eligible targets.

The FAQ removes the Friendly units part.

The FAQ also clarifies and the example I'll use is the Ymyr beam mortal wound strat used on the Hekkatrukk's big beam gun:
Heavy 2 - So you roll to hit your target twice and hit with both.
You are over 15" range away, so each hit counts as two hits.

It seems uncontroversial that:
- you get 4 MWs on the target from the strat.

The FAQ clarifies that:
- you get to make 4 wound rolls on anything under the beam line.
- you get 0 MWs on anything under the beam line.

They also clarify the Bolt Cannon typo on the Hekkatrukk. Overall it does a lot to clean up the stuff I was expecting could be an argument at tournaments.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




EightFoldPath wrote:
The original wording was:

ome Votann weapons have the Beam ability. Each time an attack is made with such a weapon, if a hit is scored, draw a line between the closest point of this model’s base (or hull) and that of the closest model in the target unit. Make one wound roll against the target unit, and each other unit this line passes over (excluding units that were not eligible to be targeted by this weapon when targets were selected). When a VEHICLE model makes an attack with beam weapons that targets an enemy unit in Engagement Range of it, that attack is only resolved against that target unit and it cannot hit any other unit.


It says "(excluding units that were not eligible to be targeted by this weapon when targets were selected)" which meant it excluded:
- Enemy units protected by look out sir.
- Enemy units the shooting model couldn't see. If you are trying to picture this, consider a Hekkatruck firing at a 24W Knight through obscuring terrain but there is a 12W Armiger also sitting behind the obscuring terrain but in the line between the Hekkatrukk and Knight.
- Friendly units as they are not eligible targets.

The FAQ removes the Friendly units part.

The FAQ also clarifies and the example I'll use is the Ymyr beam mortal wound strat used on the Hekkatrukk's big beam gun:
Heavy 2 - So you roll to hit your target twice and hit with both.
You are over 15" range away, so each hit counts as two hits.

It seems uncontroversial that:
- you get 4 MWs on the target from the strat.

The FAQ clarifies that:
- you get to make 4 wound rolls on anything under the beam line.
- you get 0 MWs on anything under the beam line.

They also clarify the Bolt Cannon typo on the Hekkatrukk. Overall it does a lot to clean up the stuff I was expecting could be an argument at tournaments.


So can you kill your own characters with friendly fire but not enemy characters because of the 'Look Out Sir?'

If so I want to see just how far we can egg GW on into vandalizing their own product further. = )
   
 
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