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Here is the statement from Darkpshere regards their changes. I find it very muddy whether they're changing the total discount by a flat amount or if they're changing the discounted price by a 6% (one is 19%, the other 20.5% off rrp):

GW Price Rise


Games Workshop have informed us that they are raising their trade prices (the price that we pay for their items) and as such
we will need to reduce the discount that we offer.

The Recommended Retail Price (RRP) of Games Workshop items will remain unchanged but we will need to reduce our discount by 5-6%.
The deadline for placing an order with us at our current discount on Games Workshop prices is 10pm Sunday 11th December.

If an item is out of stock the price will be honoured even if Games Workshop Trade doesn't currently have it in stock
(if Games Workshop discontinues that particular box,changes the RRP of the box or moves it to Games Workshop Direct/Webstore exclusive then this will not apply).

https://www.darksphere.co.uk/gwprice22.php

So, GW aren't putting the price up till the 19th. Looks like Darksphere are trying to grab a bit more money from their customers before the change.

 Rolsheen wrote:
So, GW aren't putting the price up till the 19th. Looks like Darksphere are trying to grab a bit more money from their customers before the change.

Wild that a shop wants to sell things. And FOMO being used to sell wargaming stuff? It’ll never catch on.

Stores will do what they think they should do... and so do we as clients

 Rolsheen wrote:
So, GW aren't putting the price up till the 19th. Looks like Darksphere are trying to grab a bit more money from their customers before the change.

By the way it reads they'll also make more margin per item after than before, rather than keeping margin the same.

Dudeface wrote:
Here is the statement from Darkpshere regards their changes. I find it very muddy whether they're changing the total discount by a flat amount or if they're changing the discounted price by a 6% (one is 19%, the other 20.5% off rrp):

Currently Dark Sphere don't offer any free shipping, but do a 25% discount instead. For larger orders you can still get a better overall price that other stores who offer 15-20% with free shipping. I've used them a lot in recent years.

So if I have this right:
For a £100 RRP item prior to these changes, Dark Sphere paid £53.85 and sold it for £75. That's a gross profit of £21.15.
With trade prices increasing by 5.9%(?), the same item will now cost them £57.02. That gives Dark Sphere a profit of either ~£22.50 or ~£24 depending which discount level is used.

I hope they're also going to revise their shipping terms alongside this, or other retailers are going to be a much better choice.

 Rolsheen wrote:
So, GW aren't putting the price up till the 19th. Looks like Darksphere are trying to grab a bit more money from their customers before the change.

Or they have inventory to manage and it takes time to process orders.

Nicking these off B&C, but here is another stores response:


Which again, to my maths says they're making more at 15% off still.

Wonder what Chaos Card will do. They’re just around the corner from me, but as their discount isn’t as deep as say, Element, I’ve only bought odds and sods there.

But, if Chaos Cards don’t reduce their discount, and Element do, their prices will reach parity, give or take. Certainly enough that I’ll just get my toys round the corner.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Wonder what Chaos Card will do. They’re just around the corner from me, but as their discount isn’t as deep as say, Element, I’ve only bought odds and sods there.

But, if Chaos Cards don’t reduce their discount, and Element do, their prices will reach parity, give or take. Certainly enough that I’ll just get my toys round the corner.

Some haven't issued a statement and I dare say will be waiting to look out for feedback/backlash like as has been seen online already. If they can afford to maintain the same margins, or better yet take a slight loss, there'll be a lot of people looking for a new favourite seller.

There's a chance some are waiting for the annual rrp adjustment in April to make a call as a guess too.

True, true.

Though currently ploughing through my pile of Yet To Built Heresy stuff, so shouldn’t really be buying any more for a while.

Will that stop me?

The hell it will!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
shouldn’t really be buying any more for a while.

Will that stop me?

The hell it will!

Wargaming in a nutshell, unfortunately

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Rolsheen wrote:
So, GW aren't putting the price up till the 19th. Looks like Darksphere are trying to grab a bit more money from their customers before the change.

Wild that a shop wants to sell things. And FOMO being used to sell wargaming stuff? It’ll never catch on.

My flgs already sell with no discount at all (California) so this is just going to suck for them, not like they can reduce a discount they don't have. Good thing MTG still exists to subsidize game stores.

Dudeface wrote:
Nicking these off B&C, but here is another stores response:

Spoiler:

Which again, to my maths says they're making more at 15% off still.

Care to share your workings with the class?

The store here states that to keep their margin the same with the increased price, they'd need to drop discount from 20% to 13%, yet their holding it at 15% - if they're telling the truth, then they're taking a hit to maintain that level of discount.

You're claiming this isn't the case, implying that they're lying - so, please, show your working out.

Dysartes wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Nicking these off B&C, but here is another stores response:

Spoiler:

Which again, to my maths says they're making more at 15% off still.

Care to share your workings with the class?

The store here states that to keep their margin the same with the increased price, they'd need to drop discount from 20% to 13%, yet their holding it at 15% - if they're telling the truth, then they're taking a hit to maintain that level of discount.

You're claiming this isn't the case, implying that they're lying - so, please, show your working out.

I don't need to as xttz already laid the basis out:

xttz wrote:
So if I have this right:
For a £100 RRP item prior to these changes, Dark Sphere paid £53.85 and sold it for £75. That's a gross profit of £21.15.
With trade prices increasing by 5.9%(?), the same item will now cost them £57.02. That gives Dark Sphere a profit of either ~£22.50 or ~£24 depending which discount level is used.

I hope they're also going to revise their shipping terms alongside this, or other retailers are going to be a much better choice.

If we assume a 6% for sakes of maths increase on trade prices,

The £53.85 (no idea personally if that's correct but I know it's around 50%) trade price on a £100 item goes to £57.08.

At current day prices they net a (80 - 53.85 =) 26.15 profit.

Post increase they would net, at 15% (85 - 57.08 =) 27.92 profit.

At 13% it goes to 29.92 profit.

The foil in that is if their trade prices are already higher and/or if the trade price went up by ~6 percentage points, rather than percentage. But all communication from all parties so far is percentage.

Dudeface wrote:

The £53.85 (no idea personally if that's correct but I know it's around 50%) trade price on a £100 item...

I took that figure from the official trade price list available here

https://trade.games-workshop.com/resources/

 xttz wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

The £53.85 (no idea personally if that's correct but I know it's around 50%) trade price on a £100 item...

I took that figure from the official trade price list available here

https://trade.games-workshop.com/resources/

That makes it very cut and dry then. Either the stores aren't representing the change correctly via incorrect language or it's dishonesty. I hope it's the former but fear it's the latter and they're trying to cash in on sympathy votes by deflecting the issue as "look at nasty GW" and hoping most people can't/don't do the maths.

Seems to me the disconnect stems from some people interpreting the hike as 5% of retail and some as 5% of trade price.

Well its been a few years since i worked at a FLGS, but the discount trade partners gets from GW isn't a flat rate. It started off at 50% of rrp but got better as the store ordered more stuff regularly, along with a budget of perks each year, which provided entire tables worth of scenery etc to help promote the games.
So not all retailers will be taking the same hit as others. Its also why the larger online stores can afford to offer a bigger discount, as they pat less for the stock.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Seems to me the disconnect stems from some people interpreting the hike as 5% of retail and some as 5% of trade price.

The original context made it sound like it was off MSRP and not off the trade price.

 Dysartes wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Nicking these off B&C, but here is another stores response:

Spoiler:

Which again, to my maths says they're making more at 15% off still.

Care to share your workings with the class?

The store here states that to keep their margin the same with the increased price, they'd need to drop discount from 20% to 13%, yet their holding it at 15% - if they're telling the truth, then they're taking a hit to maintain that level of discount.

You're claiming this isn't the case, implying that they're lying - so, please, show your working out.

Claims 2% is 10% off their end, meaning their current margin is 20, is how I read it anyway. (this would be after other overheads, profit isn't income minus stock expense).

If memory and hearsay serve, I think GW’s wholesale is normally 60% of retail?

I think that’s been confirmed on occasion, debunked on others?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Seems to me the disconnect stems from some people interpreting the hike as 5% of retail and some as 5% of trade price.

The original context made it sound like it was off MSRP and not off the trade price.

The GW message sent our literally says trade price and that it WON'T affect the RRP.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Seems to me the disconnect stems from some people interpreting the hike as 5% of retail and some as 5% of trade price.

The original context made it sound like it was off MSRP and not off the trade price.

The GW message sent our literally says trade price and that it WON'T affect the RRP.

Thanks for clarifying without understanding the question tho.

Since we usually think of trade price, discounts and margins as a function of RRP it's easy to assume the change references RRP - in effect percentage points rather than percentage.

So an Item costs 100€ retail and 60€ at trade and trade cost is going up by 5%. It's easy to get tripped up and think the new trade price is 65€, rather than 63.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Seems to me the disconnect stems from some people interpreting the hike as 5% of retail and some as 5% of trade price.

The original context made it sound like it was off MSRP and not off the trade price.

The GW message sent our literally says trade price and that it WON'T affect the RRP.

Thanks for clarifying without understanding the question tho.

Since we usually think of trade price, discounts and margins as a function of RRP it's easy to assume the change references RRP - in effect percentage points rather than percentage.

So an Item costs 100€ retail and 60€ at trade and trade cost is going up by 5%. It's easy to get tripped up and think the new trade price is 65€, rather than 63.

I think people are confusing these, but in the event of the flgs I've pointed out in here, they're behaving like it's percentage points rather than a percentage, when the language used by gw and the flgs own communications are the latter.

[
The maths being used is faulty.

The VAT on a £100 item is in fact £16.67, as you add it to the ex VAT price, you don't remove it from the RRP. So the ex-VAT price on a £100 RRP item is £83.33.

To sell the same product at 20% discount (£80) you'd need the ex VAT price to be £66.67. If it costs £53.85 then the gross margin is £12.82.

After the increase, that same product costs £57.02, which means in order to maintain the same retail price, the seller needs to accept a margin of 9.65. Or a fall in gross margin of approx 25%.

If the discount is reduced to 15% then the £85 discounted price is an ex vat price of £70.83. Less the increased price of 57.02, the revised gross margin is £13.81.

So, technically, yes, they're making a small amount more, but honestly that's as much an artefact of keeping the discount figures rounded as it is making more money, and sustaining a 25% drop in income from each sale wouldn't be viable.

So +6% trade translates to around 3.5% rrp (though since most buyers try to pay below retail, real cost will be slightly more than this), and cost to any retailer choosing to absorb it, as a percentage of their profit will depend on operating costs as a whole. Regardless, no one needs worry about being gouged by third party sellers, the market will presumably adjust and result will at worst be a 3% price increase (?)

I wouldn't be surprised if it settled out at 5% purely because people like round numbers.

But fundamentally yes, GW have temporarily closed the gap between their own prices and those available through discounted third parties, but thanks to their ongoing price increase policy, it'll likely be reinstated within 12 months or so.

Looking for that one online store who doesn’t change their prices.
They will get increased trade compared to all the others changing, as people head to the better deal in quantity.
So I guess they need to work out what the potential loss of profit per item sold is, but add in the potential gain for number of items sold.

Have Wayland Games said anything yet?