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Valrak talks about again about a reboot of Epic for next year.
There were some rumours abut Epic in the past months and it looks like the Game could get released after the 10th Edition next Year and could be set in the Horus Heresy.
"Seems to be returning" and "definitely returning" at the same time. Right.
The only thing 'epic' is the amount of BS Valrak usually produces, closely followed by the almost equal amount of backpedaling that usually follows. He has good rumours, but he also throws a lot of stuff to the wall to see what sticks. At the moment, he also predicts the 'Brutalis Dreadnought' for the 3rd time, as well as missile launcher Primaris, and jump pack melee primaris that he gleaned from the Space Marine II trailer. And of course the return of the Lion.
To put his Epic rumours in perspective: We get Arks of Omen. We get 10th edition in 2023. New Edition reasonably means new Codex Space Marines in short time. Adeptus Titanicus is barely supported atm, and Aeronautica still less supported than that. I can't see GW introducing a whole new game that has limited appeal and cannibalizes the same player demographic in the same year that they relaunch their most profitable main system and probably its most important faction. That would mean that epic is probably slotted for 2024, if it exists at all. And on top of that: we have seen nothing that could reasonably be epic miniatures, not even as a hint in the rumour engine or as a random cryptic riddle on the website. The oldest rumor engine pictures go back over two years - if Epic was due for release sometime in 2023, they would have shown something by now, even if it only made sense in hindsight.
There's going to be some side game in 2023, we just don't know what. Betting on one of the, what, 3?, specialist games left unrebooted is the optimal move if you want to min/max your internet clout.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
"Seems to be returning" and "definitely returning" at the same time. Right.
The only thing 'epic' is the amount of BS Valrak usually produces, closely followed by the almost equal amount of backpedaling that usually follows. He has good rumours, but he also throws a lot of stuff to the wall to see what sticks. At the moment, he also predicts the 'Brutalis Dreadnought' for the 3rd time, as well as missile launcher Primaris, and jump pack melee primaris that he gleaned from the Space Marine II trailer. And of course the return of the Lion.
To put his Epic rumours in perspective: We get Arks of Omen. We get 10th edition in 2023. New Edition reasonably means new Codex Space Marines in short time. Adeptus Titanicus is barely supported atm, and Aeronautica still less supported than that. I can't see GW introducing a whole new game that has limited appeal and cannibalizes the same player demographic in the same year that they relaunch their most profitable main system and probably its most important faction. That would mean that epic is probably slotted for 2024, if it exists at all. And on top of that: we have seen nothing that could reasonably be epic miniatures, not even as a hint in the rumour engine or as a random cryptic riddle on the website. The oldest rumor engine pictures go back over two years - if Epic was due for release sometime in 2023, they would have shown something by now, even if it only made sense in hindsight.
Is there some sort of list of what he has and hasn't got right? I know he's got a few things right, like the Rogal Dorn Tank and the return of the Squats, but at the same time he's predicted all sorts of absurd things over the years, and even some of the times he has got something right it was so vague and could easily have been guessed (I.e. new campaign book involving Abbadon)
lord_blackfang wrote: There's going to be some side game in 2023, we just don't know what. Betting on one of the, what, 3?, specialist games left unrebooted is the optimal move if you want to min/max your internet clout.
It's not too far-fetched to have Epic 'return' in some fashion by releasing a rulebook that allows the use of aeronautica planes for both sides and make some blisters for the most important tanks, i.e. Land Raides, the various Rhino-chassis variants and maybe some stands for infantry and fast attack elements. That's easily covered in one of the boxed game 'splash' slots or some other limited support scheme. But it's also a far cry from the end state of Epic as it was last seen about 15 years ago.
On the other hand, betting on more reboots is not that creative - with Warcry and Underworlds they've shown that they are willing to do new Standalone games with continued support, and Necromunda seems to be going quite well too. Also, some support has to go into that thing with the Old World. Among the older specialist games, Epic and BFG are the ones you could bet on - Gorkamorka doesn't really need anything, Inq54 is not economically viable and Mordheim has a -for now- dead setting and would step on the toes of Warcry/Underworlds.
Is there some sort of list of what he has and hasn't got right? I know he's got a few things right, like the Rogal Dorn Tank and the return of the Squats, but at the same time he's predicted all sorts of absurd things over the years, and even some of the times he has got something right it was so vague and could easily have been guessed (I.e. new campaign book involving Abbadon)
When the Tyranid codex was first rumoured early this year, he claimed it was coming with several updated models including new gaunts.
LOLno, they were always laughably wrong, save for 1-2 rare instances of someone feeding him good info or V stealing good rumors from someone actually reliable, no matter what his sockpuppets here say. He "predicted" a plastic warhound titan like twenty times starting in 2014, see it on tables anywhere?
Or last example, from Arks - he "predicted" a female demon princess tied to Dark Mechanicus, almost as if he was blindly guessing from lithe figure silhouette - oops, turns out it's a male demon that never was mortal, from Forge of Souls, no ties to DM. A complete opposite. This alone should tell you how "accurate" he is
I'll believe it when I see it. Titanicus has had a grand total of one model released this year and the last plastic kit was back in November 2021. Making full-blow Epic would be a massive project and it seems that production is stretched thin already.
LOLno, they were always laughably wrong, save for 1-2 rare instances of someone feeding him good info or V stealing good rumors from someone actually reliable, no matter what his sockpuppets here say. He "predicted" a plastic warhound titan like twenty times starting in 2014, see it on tables anywhere?
Or last example, from Arks - he "predicted" a female demon princess tied to Dark Mechanicus, almost as if he was blindly guessing from lithe figure silhouette - oops, turns out it's a male demon that never was mortal, from Forge of Souls, no ties to DM. A complete opposite. This alone should tell you how "accurate" he is
I remember him saying a "daemon prince" model was coming and assumed he was right with Arks because i can kinda see why someone would get it confused with a daemon prince....but he said it was a female character coming?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/12 22:41:00
Eh AT doesn't have any Xenos models; heck it doesn't even have any proper corrupted titan models. I'd expect those long long long before any attempt to bring Epic back
If (big 'if') Epic was to come back, I hope it isn't locked into the Heresy Era. Space Marines are cool and all, but sometimes you want to be something else and not feel like a sideshow.
lord_blackfang wrote: There's going to be some side game in 2023, we just don't know what. Betting on one of the, what, 3?, specialist games left unrebooted is the optimal move if you want to min/max your internet clout.
It's not too far-fetched to have Epic 'return' in some fashion by releasing a rulebook that allows the use of aeronautica planes for both sides and make some blisters for the most important tanks, i.e. Land Raides, the various Rhino-chassis variants and maybe some stands for infantry and fast attack elements. That's easily covered in one of the boxed game 'splash' slots or some other limited support scheme. But it's also a far cry from the end state of Epic as it was last seen about 15 years ago.
On the other hand, betting on more reboots is not that creative - with Warcry and Underworlds they've shown that they are willing to do new Standalone games with continued support, and Necromunda seems to be going quite well too. Also, some support has to go into that thing with the Old World. Among the older specialist games, Epic and BFG are the ones you could bet on - Gorkamorka doesn't really need anything, Inq54 is not economically viable and Mordheim has a -for now- dead setting and would step on the toes of Warcry/Underworlds.
I agree that if "Epic" was to happen, it'd probably have a very limited scope of miniatures and be set in the Heresy. I'm just not sure I see GW pushing lots of different tiny infantry models, vehicle variants, etc. especially when those are already alternatives in the form of 3rd parties and 3D files. And there are no xenos Titan kits, so those would need to happen too. A very limited-scope game -- Imperial tanks, planes and Titans -- might be doable.
But is that what the customers want out of a reborn Epic game? And if it's not scratching their itch...is it a good business idea to invest in? We're also talking about a game that once imploded because the ruleset got more streamlined even as the model range basically didn't. It'd be an interesting roll of the dice.
Still, AT is awfully quiet, which suggests something...either a 2nd edition set or it being sidelined for Epic. They're gonna want to keep pushing those Titan kits, so it'll probably be one or the other. I hope it's a 2nd edition, and I think it'd be a good play by GW, because COVID really impacted AT right at the time the game was filling out and would have started getting more traction.
Overread wrote: Eh AT doesn't have any Xenos models; heck it doesn't even have any proper corrupted titan models. I'd expect those long long long before any attempt to bring Epic back
Yup, I just can't see GW doing Epic before going for low hanging fruit in AT that could fit both HH and 40K, like ork and eldar titans. Or mechanicum. Or Imperial Army/IG. Or anything, really, before diving into new game requiring tons of new releases...
Mentlegen324 wrote: Is there some sort of list of what he has and hasn't got right?
Funnily enough, there used to be amazing rumor checker thread on Dakka but alas, looks like it was long abandoned:
Mentlegen324 wrote: I remember him saying a "daemon prince" model was coming and assumed he was right with Arks because i can kinda see why someone would get it confused with a daemon prince....but he said it was a female character coming?
I am pretty sure he did but checking it is next to impossible as he tends to ramble in every video dragging what should be one minute into 10+ to hit these sweet Youtube enhanced monetization thresholds. Anyway, on quick check, he said there will be Arks of Omen Boxset in last big preview on B&C (where he posts regularly thanks to uncritical adoration), oops, wrong again (which really takes talent because GW loves doing boxsets, of course GW might throw together something later and his defenders will say he was ""right"" even though he was wrong about preview itself and it's really so no effort high probability guess even a child can do it)...
gorgon wrote: Still, AT is awfully quiet, which suggests something...either a 2nd edition set or it being sidelined for Epic. They're gonna want to keep pushing those Titan kits, so it'll probably be one or the other. I hope it's a 2nd edition, and I think it'd be a good play by GW, because COVID really impacted AT right at the time the game was filling out and would have started getting more traction.
Blood Bowl got a new edition at the end of 2020 (4 years from original release). Necromunda had a significant slow down in new releases during 2021, but the Ash Wastes update (around 4.5 years from original release) was followed by a lot of new stuff. Titanicus has just passed 4 years old in August, but the combination of Necromunda & new HH launch in summer probably took priority this year.
I fully expect the slowdown of AT releases this year is due to new stuff being developed for 2023. I'm not sure what form that will take, but Epic Heresy seems like an easy guess given the recent work on redesigning the models. GW might instead use a relaunch to do things like updating the classic daemon titans in plastic, new psi-titans to fight them, and new terrain. Wonder if it will appear before or after the inevitable new 40k edition...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/13 00:11:54
Is there some sort of list of what he has and hasn't got right? I know he's got a few things right, like the Rogal Dorn Tank and the return of the Squats, but at the same time he's predicted all sorts of absurd things over the years, and even some of the times he has got something right it was so vague and could easily have been guessed (I.e. new campaign book involving Abbadon)
Squats weren't him. That was the bolter and chainsword person but when it became apparent that big list of leaks was accurate he was quick to siphon videos off it. He was the first with the Rogal Dorn scoop I think and some of the early heresy rule leaks.
He's very hit and miss. He's been more accurate recently but he's been pedalling "epic is coming back guys for reals!!!" every couple of years. If he says Bloody Mary enough times in the mirror she might eventually show up.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/12/13 03:54:22
Commander Cain wrote: I'll believe it when I see it. Titanicus has had a grand total of one model released this year and the last plastic kit was back in November 2021. Making full-blow Epic would be a massive project and it seems that production is stretched thin already.
Though I would actually expect quiet release schedule before epic precisely because it's massive project. It would take more resources to keep pushing AT AND do epic than slow down AT for epic.
Though yeah with the source being what it is not holding my breath.
Commander Cain wrote: I'll believe it when I see it. Titanicus has had a grand total of one model released this year and the last plastic kit was back in November 2021. Making full-blow Epic would be a massive project and it seems that production is stretched thin already.
Ah! But this is in fact evidence that Epic is coming! Since GW is obviously slowing down new releases as they prepare for the big Epic release!
Jarms48 wrote: I don't understand why they'd even do a HH Epic. Just seems like a waste of time. 40k is a more diverse and engaging setting.
For you.
Surprise surprise. Not everybody thinks same or has same preference.
Also simple finances. Try to calculate how many plastic sprues every race included at once would amount to?
HH epic meanwhile requires one set of sprues that can be used for both sides.
In fact that's how epic started...One set of models, loyal vs heretic, rest expanded later as resources allowed.
Also, Epic is a very different experience.
Where 40K tends to be super zoomed in, the last moments of a much wider battle being played out? Epic is, in theory, the grand, sweeping view of the whole of the thing.
I think this is where I get hung up on 2nd Ed Space Marine, due to how you selected your army. Company Card, 0-5 Support Cards, 0-1 Special Card.
They were set formations. And brought their own army restrictions on their own. You may go for an all Infantry Company, and round out it’s support with some transport capacity, some battle tank and artillery support, or more specialised Infantry.
The headspace for me is the Overall Commander directing his troops from a secure bunker or orbit, rather than from the front.
The actual combat is much more straight forward than 40K, regardless of which edition of Epic we’re considering. Because the Thing of the Game is wielding these relatively set forces as greater than the whole of the thing. No individual heroics. No Smash Captains deployed in lieu of actual tactical ability. It’s setting up cross fires, planning your objective seizure and which enemy units you want to crush turns in advance.
2nd Ed had the Orders System, which I will always revere. Different Orders allowed different things. Chosen in secret (unless you’re Eldar, and have the right web of units) revealed at the same time, I had to anticipate my opponent, but also plan for being dead wrong. With alternating activation, Orders prevented the players simply reacting to whatever their opponent just did. Well. Limited I suppose rather than prevented, as a given order dictated what that unit could or couldn’t do.
That was the fun, and where the skill truly lay. A wonderful game system.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Aeronautica could hold hints as to the direction of Epic...
On the one hand it introduced Orks, Eldar, IG, Marines, Tau and Necrons, which might indicate a return to the 40K era. On the other hand the last release was a Horus Heresy book, which may be a sign that GW are cutting their loses with the existing imperial-only kits and refocusing on the Heresy era, while slowly discontining the existing xenos kits.
Could the larger player base get confused with a second "The Horus Heresy" game so close to the exhausting relaunch of 30K? Could GW be working on an Epic game solely focused on battles between the Imperium and Orks, set on Armageddon? As much as Marines, Orks are very much the comical mascot of the 40K brand. With a focus on just the additional Ork range, this might allow AT and AI to stick around just a bit longer...
