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If he repeats this rumour every year until he's right, he can finally say "SEE! I was correct! Ignore the previous 18 videos!"
It's rather genius in its absolutely stupid way.
It's like this with a lot of things really - a new boxed set with Space Marines? In a year with a new edition? Not really hanging far out of the window here, given that every single starter box in history had space marines in some form and would fit the definition.
The Lion returning? Well, Primarchs are the current hot thing, and for the imperial side it's pretty much 50:50 between Russ and The Lion, because they have established model ranges and Sanguinius is dead. Predicting Fulgrim is the other obvious safe bet, all the big 4 demon Primarchs will eventually be available.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Truly, Valrak is the Darksydephil of the 40k community.
I have nothing against Valrak personally, his presentation style just does nothing for me, i'm not a friend of hyping every fart on the wind as ''HUGE! revelations'' and such, and his overly padded video style gets really grating after you watched a couple of them.
SamusDrake wrote: Aeronautica could hold hints as to the direction of Epic...
On the one hand it introduced Orks, Eldar, IG, Marines, Tau and Necrons, which might indicate a return to the 40K era. On the other hand the last release was a Horus Heresy book, which may be a sign that GW are cutting their loses with the existing imperial-only kits and refocusing on the Heresy era, while slowly discontining the existing xenos kits.
Could the larger player base get confused with a second "The Horus Heresy" game so close to the exhausting relaunch of 30K? Could GW be working on an Epic game solely focused on battles between the Imperium and Orks, set on Armageddon? As much as Marines, Orks are very much the comical mascot of the 40K brand. With a focus on just the additional Ork range, this might allow AT and AI to stick around just a bit longer...
The issue they'd have with working on xenos factions is that a lot of folks would likely wait it out assuming 'their' faction is coming eventually. So you'd get people not buying Marines or Orks because they'd prefer to make an Eldar or Tyranid army. But then at the same time, GW sees the low sales of new Epic as proof that it's not worth making Eldar or Tyranids, so they never happen.
It's why I think that if Epic did happen, HH is the more likely approach they'd take because the same models cover both sides of the game. That is after all how Adeptus Titancius and Epic Space Marine originally began.
Agamemnon2 wrote: Truly, Valrak is the Darksydephil of the 40k community.
I have nothing against Valrak personally, his presentation style just does nothing for me, i'm not a friend of hyping every fart on the wind as ''HUGE! revelations'' and such, and his overly padded video style gets really grating after you watched a couple of them.
That's fair enough, I do think he's a windbag and his presentation is incredibly abrasive to me, but he's ultimately inoffensive beyond the the sheer amount of substanceless guff he produces.
I'm not really a fan, I watched one video a long time ago and was put off by what I thought was some needlessly overblown rhetoric. I think it was a complaint about something and I don't remember whether I even agreed, I just found his presentation of the argument to be too dramatic for my tastes.
schoon wrote: Love Epic, so the gamer in me wants to believe...
Honestly, at this point, it'd be nice to see new Epic models and the potential for new opponents, but I don't trust that GW won't just completely feck up the rules.
Epic 3rd edition is probably the most elegant game GW has made (though I know some people prefer the other editions). Though there's some holes in the rules, the entire rulebook is less than 50 pages in roughly A5 format and can be read in the space of about an hour and you're ready to start gaming. There's no way GW won't completely feth that up
If they release Horus Heresy: Epic edition before giving us plastic assault marines for 28mm HH, I'd believe these rumours.
I loved the idea of HH epic last year when Val posted a copy of this same rant. I'd still love the idea this year
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
schoon wrote: Love Epic, so the gamer in me wants to believe...
Honestly, at this point, it'd be nice to see new Epic models and the potential for new opponents, but I don't trust that GW won't just completely feck up the rules.
Epic 3rd edition is probably the most elegant game GW has made (though I know some people prefer the other editions). Though there's some holes in the rules, the entire rulebook is less than 50 pages in roughly A5 format and can be read in the space of about an hour and you're ready to start gaming. There's no way GW won't completely feth that up
Elegant rules are pretty much the antithesis of what GW likes to produce right now and has been producing for a couple of years. Epic in its later incarnations, or BFG for that matter, had what - three dozen specials rules that were used in combinations to represent everything from basic infantry to emperor-class titans, or escorts to blackstone fortresses, and used stuff like firepower tables. Nowadays single high-end models in 40k can easily have more rules baggage than whole Epic armies, betwenn detachment rules, army-wide and faction-wide special rules, warlord traits, stratagems and then of course individual special rules both for the model, optionally with a degrading statline, and even single pieces of armament and equipment.
If i had to guess, i'd say that BFG was more likely to return than Epic: it does inherently not need as much support as Epic, it can integrate well with 40k without cannibalizing 40k sales -which was one of the arguments that lead to the sidelining of Epic, however realistic that was- and is open-ended enough that it would feel complete with just a couple of boxes and clampacks, but would also allow for a lot of further expansion if it really took off.
Is there some sort of list of what he has and hasn't got right? I know he's got a few things right, like the Rogal Dorn Tank and the return of the Squats, but at the same time he's predicted all sorts of absurd things over the years, and even some of the times he has got something right it was so vague and could easily have been guessed (I.e. new campaign book involving Abbadon)
Squats weren't him. That was the bolter and chainsword person but when it became apparent that big list of leaks was accurate he was quick to siphon videos off it. He was the first with the Rogal Dorn scoop I think and some of the early heresy rule leaks.
He's very hit and miss. He's been more accurate recently but he's been pedalling "epic is coming back guys for reals!!!" every couple of years. If he says Bloody Mary enough times in the mirror she might eventually show up.
Exactly that.
He’s quick to report on stuff. But equally any hint of something (that will get clicks) and he will say maybe, or I’m hearing this, and so on.
He didn’t get Squats right, just his yearly suggestion they’re coming was correct on the year they came back.
I hope as he’s been more accurate of late it means that the Lion is finally coming.
But again he’s been saying that for a long time.
A lot of it is, we could all say like 40 things we think might come out, and likely we will get a good 10 right. It’s our hobby, we know it well, we can guess a lot of the time.
Do that, but with a big YouTube channel and there you are.
Is there some sort of list of what he has and hasn't got right? I know he's got a few things right, like the Rogal Dorn Tank and the return of the Squats, but at the same time he's predicted all sorts of absurd things over the years, and even some of the times he has got something right it was so vague and could easily have been guessed (I.e. new campaign book involving Abbadon)
Squats weren't him. That was the bolter and chainsword person but when it became apparent that big list of leaks was accurate he was quick to siphon videos off it. He was the first with the Rogal Dorn scoop I think and some of the early heresy rule leaks.
He's very hit and miss. He's been more accurate recently but he's been pedalling "epic is coming back guys for reals!!!" every couple of years. If he says Bloody Mary enough times in the mirror she might eventually show up.
The Squat rumor was elsewhere first, but he said they'd be coming back with Men of Iron, which turned out to be pretty much true.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/13 13:22:52
Horus Heresy Epic has the benefit that it lets GW get away with making 1 faction and having both sides represented. It's what AT is currently running on and it does well for itself.
It's not what I'd like because whilst titans are basically ageless (they can advance the AT timeline to the 40K setting or any point they want and the titans don't have to change); the 30K and 40K eras in terms of infantry and tanks visually change a lot. For infantry at this scale not so much, but for tanks and such there's huge changes.
I'd also dislike it because its just more mirrormatching and whilst it works for GW in terms of mould investment; its visually far less exciting than seeing different forces facing off against each other.
Personally I' hope that AT gets chaos and then xenos titans as they advance the storyline with those models. Then we might see a return of Epic which can use AT and AN models in the 40K setting along with fresh tanks and ground forces. Heck with the AA turrets and terrain from AT and the titans and aircraft there's a good amount of groundwork already done.
Overread wrote: Horus Heresy Epic has the benefit that it lets GW get away with making 1 faction and having both sides represented. It's what AT is currently running on and it does well for itself.
It's not what I'd like because whilst titans are basically ageless (they can advance the AT timeline to the 40K setting or any point they want and the titans don't have to change); the 30K and 40K eras in terms of infantry and tanks visually change a lot. For infantry at this scale not so much, but for tanks and such there's huge changes.
I'd also dislike it because its just more mirrormatching and whilst it works for GW in terms of mould investment; its visually far less exciting than seeing different forces facing off against each other.
Personally I' hope that AT gets chaos and then xenos titans as they advance the storyline with those models. Then we might see a return of Epic which can use AT and AN models in the 40K setting along with fresh tanks and ground forces. Heck with the AA turrets and terrain from AT and the titans and aircraft there's a good amount of groundwork already done.
Hocus heresy epic would be a mistake. The horus heresy setting is a niche compared to the main 40k line. Epic is a niche. Creating a niche in a niche is just bad planning. I love epic armaggedon, space marine and net epic. Seeing this in the horus heresy doesn't appeal to me at all. Epic's great strength was being the main setting up scaled with a wide variety of foes on table top. Regardless of whether someone likes heresy or not, this would be limiting the buyers dramatically.
Mentlegen324 wrote: The Squat rumor was elsewhere first, but he said they'd be coming back with Men of Iron, which turned out to be pretty much true.
Except it was as wrong as pretty much everything V says. Real Men of Iron, as shown in comics, books, or BSF model/short story, are vastly more powerful and intelligent than glorified autonomous drones Ironkin are. They don't even have full AI and just pretend/ape emotions and social behaviours. Plus, ""predicting"" that new squats will have robots of some kind was suuuper difficult seeing old ones heavily relied on them.
So, yeah, there you have it, V does tons of blind guessing that turns out to be wrong in almost every case, and even in such cases where he stumbles on a near miss details are all wrong, but if you throw BS often enough and vague enough, eventually something will stick and then people will be all 'oh look he was cOrReCt!'
Here, look me do a Valrak: in 2023, GW will release white painted army! And oh, something on 28 mm bases! And space marine HQ! And chaos army book! And new edition (and if it turns out they won't thanks to all the delays, I will just quietly ignore it and will just do same prediction in 2024)! And plastic warhound titan (ditto)! And a new big PC game! And a new space marine codex! And a second votann wave! And 40K store promo limited model (super hard to guess seeing last one was AoS)! And female inquisitor! And then there is shocking rumor next Kill Team might be released soon! And oh, this tiny, insignificant detail in obscure game/comic/book means GW will soon do new character/unit/army (though they never do this but better say that every time there is something new to maybe chance on something in that odd 0.01% of cases)!
Wanna bet how soon I will be cOrReCt like V at least in 5 of these?
Is there some sort of list of what he has and hasn't got right? I know he's got a few things right, like the Rogal Dorn Tank and the return of the Squats, but at the same time he's predicted all sorts of absurd things over the years, and even some of the times he has got something right it was so vague and could easily have been guessed (I.e. new campaign book involving Abbadon)
Squats weren't him. That was the bolter and chainsword person but when it became apparent that big list of leaks was accurate he was quick to siphon videos off it. He was the first with the Rogal Dorn scoop I think and some of the early heresy rule leaks.
He's very hit and miss. He's been more accurate recently but he's been pedalling "epic is coming back guys for reals!!!" every couple of years. If he says Bloody Mary enough times in the mirror she might eventually show up.
I don't think Valrak has ever been the source of a rumour, he gets literally 90% of the content for his videos directly from Dakka, Reddit, Facebook and a few of the old rumour mongers, rarely sources where he gets it from beyond 'I've heard from sources' and then creates a video on it. He's hit and miss because he reports on practically everything he's read on other communities, I've even seen some of the rumours that form his videos hit forums a few hours before his videos then pop up.
As for Epic in 2023? Doubt it, considering it's very likely to have 40k 10e as the mainline major release and fairly likely to see The Old World as the major specialist release. GW aren't going to load another major release alongside those two.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/13 15:34:16
Sureshot05 wrote: Hocus heresy epic would be a mistake. The horus heresy setting is a niche compared to the main 40k line. Epic is a niche. Creating a niche in a niche is just bad planning. I love epic armaggedon, space marine and net epic. Seeing this in the horus heresy doesn't appeal to me at all. Epic's great strength was being the main setting up scaled with a wide variety of foes on table top. Regardless of whether someone likes heresy or not, this would be limiting the buyers dramatically.
Yeah, that's kinda what I was alluding to in my previous post. My gut tells me more gamers would like Epic to be 40K but zoomed out. I'm sure they'd hype the gak out of a limited scope mirror match Epic 30K box and sell them out. But I think the customers would quickly start asking 'xenos when?'...just like they already do with AT. Still, it'd probably push more existing plane and Titan kits for a while, even if the game ends up lacking legs.
I love AT as is and still want to see the remaining Imperial Titans they've teased. But I can't stick my head in the sand and pretend that xenos factions wouldn't have brought more people into the game. You can hardly start an AT discussion without it coming up. If they want AT *OR* Epic to have legs, I think xenos have to happen. But then GW has had trouble supporting AT at anything more than a glacial pace even though the kits have sold really well by their own admission.
So who knows where things go from here. Guess it really depends on the business plan.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/13 15:40:50
I'm curious: why would a new Epic scale system be successful when GW released the new Apocalypse not so long ago (pretty much "Epic" but for standard 40k scale minis) and that system did not seem to get much traction? Many more players already have or much easier access to 40k scale minis useable with Apocalypse. A true new Epic system would require Epic scale minis which many players no longer have or are not as readily available to most players (besides 3D printing). Do you all really think a new Epic scale system would drive significant sales of new Epic scale miniatures when past experience has shown that 40k scale minis are where the market is at?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/12/13 16:08:54
Gnarlly wrote: I'm curious: why would a new Epic scale system be successful when GW released the new Apocalypse not so long ago (pretty much "Epic" but for standard 40k scale minis) and that system did not seem to get much traction? Many more players already have or much easier access to 40k scale minis useable with Apocalypse. A true new Epic system would require Epic scale minis which many players no longer have or are not as readily available to most players (besides 3D printing). Do you all really think a new Epic scale system would drive significant sales of new Epic scale miniatures when past experience has shown that 40k scale minis are where the market is at?
The fact that most people don't have epic models and means they have to buy them from GW if they were to do Epic is actually a great reason for GW to to Epic. Because that means its generating sales for GWGW getting to sell models is fantastic for GW, its their whole business.
Also Apoc is always going to be a superniche because of the investment in models you need; the space and the time. Running an Apoc game isn't something you do every week; heck some places do them once a year if that. They are huge and amazing if run right; but they are a super niche. Heck they often rely on teams not individual players because most people don't collect 30K points of one single army. Epic, is an entirely different scale and game where one person can collect a whole Epic army to field; where it doesn't require a van to get all the models to the game table; where you don't have to take up the entire room to play etc...
They are two totally different scales of models
Gnarlly wrote: I'm curious: why would a new Epic scale system be successful when GW released the new Apocalypse not so long ago (pretty much "Epic" but for standard 40k scale minis) and that system did not seem to get much traction? Many more players already have or much easier access to 40k scale minis useable with Apocalypse. A true new Epic system would require Epic scale minis which many players no longer have or are not as readily available to most players (besides 3D printing). Do you all really think a new Epic scale system would drive significant sales of new Epic scale miniatures when past experience has shown that 40k scale minis are where the market is at?
Apocalypse is a good way to play massive battles, and yes, you can play them with Epic models, but it's not "really" an Epic game.
And IMHO, if regular 40k already look ridiculous, when you try and play Apocalypse the "overstuffed parking lot" effect only gets exacerbated.
Albertorius wrote: I would certainly prefer to see more factions for AT. They are harder to find than good proxies for the rest of Epic
Right.
And I find it hard to believe that GW even wants to be in the business of making little 6mm people again. They want to push bigger, cooler, more intricate kits that really show off what they can design and create. It's too easy to find third-party 6mm stuff that looks great.
Albertorius wrote: I would certainly prefer to see more factions for AT. They are harder to find than good proxies for the rest of Epic
Right.
And I find it hard to believe that GW even wants to be in the business of making little 6mm people again. They want to push bigger, cooler, more intricate kits that really show off what they can design and create. It's too easy to find third-party 6mm stuff that looks great.
Thing is the original Epic did almost all the infantry for each faction on 1 sprue and 1 boxed set. What was varied were tanks and bigger things. Epic allows you to do a full mechancial armoured core of Imperial Guard. Heck the IG metal tanks for Epic 40K were in many ways more detailed than their plastic 40K versions - they had ammo racks and camoflage around the barrels and such.
Epic keeps the infantry simple and lets you go wild with bigger things in a more practical way. You can do legions of tanks, vast flights of aircraft; huge swarms of infantry or vast behemoth titans and demi-titans and lords of war and such. Yes you can do those things in 40K kind of; but Epic lets you do it on a whole different scale for a more practical price and amount of size/playspace/playtime.
Albertorius wrote: I would certainly prefer to see more factions for AT. They are harder to find than good proxies for the rest of Epic
Right.
And I find it hard to believe that GW even wants to be in the business of making little 6mm people again. They want to push bigger, cooler, more intricate kits that really show off what they can design and create. It's too easy to find third-party 6mm stuff that looks great.
I mean... yeah ^^. When you can make stuff at home at this insane level of detail, it would be in their best interest to go war engines or bust
Albertorius wrote: I would certainly prefer to see more factions for AT. They are harder to find than good proxies for the rest of Epic
Right.
And I find it hard to believe that GW even wants to be in the business of making little 6mm people again. They want to push bigger, cooler, more intricate kits that really show off what they can design and create. It's too easy to find third-party 6mm stuff that looks great.
Thing is the original Epic did almost all the infantry for each faction on 1 sprue and 1 boxed set. What was varied were tanks and bigger things. Epic allows you to do a full mechancial armoured core of Imperial Guard. Heck the IG metal tanks for Epic 40K were in many ways more detailed than their plastic 40K versions - they had ammo racks and camoflage around the barrels and such.
Epic keeps the infantry simple and lets you go wild with bigger things in a more practical way. You can do legions of tanks, vast flights of aircraft; huge swarms of infantry or vast behemoth titans and demi-titans and lords of war and such. Yes you can do those things in 40K kind of; but Epic lets you do it on a whole different scale for a more practical price and amount of size/playspace/playtime.
And also a completely different way of playing the setting, something you cant really get out of 40k no matter how big you go.
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Exactly - I don't want 1 Exocrine, or two; I want multiple batteries that I can set up on a hillside backed up with teams of trygons erupting in the midst of vast rank and file swarms of Imperial Guard.
I want to siege fortifications with titans that tear down huge chunks of wall; or charge into battle with a huge column of tanks blasting every which way.
While I agree that GW would see a new Epic as an incentive to sell more (Epic-scale) minis, history has shown that Epic scale minis just don't sell that much in comparison to 40k scale minis. There will always be the GW whales that buy anything "new" from GW but I just don't see a new Epic doing any better than its previous iterations.
Also, it seems several people are under the illusion that all games using the new Apocalypse system must be massive all-day sessions with tables turned into congested "parking lots" of figures. The game actually plays quite well at the size of large standard 40k battles (roughly 2000 points of minis each side using 40k's points system) and such games can be played in less time than a 2000 point 40k match.
This matchup was roughly 2500 points each side in standard 40k terms of points on a 6'x4' table (not "niche" IMO as many players have armies of that size or more). A little cramped for an Ork horde but perfectly playable:
See, that's a parking lot, chock full already, with no real space for meaningful maneuvering, and you don't even have all the minis on the table yet.
Just going small scale it would look exponentially better.
One important thing when playing Epic is maneuvering, and for that there needs to be actual space for it to be meaningful. For example, it would look more like that:
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/12/13 16:54:15
Gnarlly wrote: While I agree that GW would see a new Epic as an incentive to sell more (Epic-scale) minis, history has shown that Epic scale minis just don't sell that much in comparison to 40k scale minis. There will always be the GW whales that buy anything "new" from GW but I just don't see a new Epic doing any better than its previous iterations.
NOTHING sells as well as 40K and honestly within 40K nothing touches space marines (except urrok warriors for middleearth! )
That's the failing that Kirby era GW management had I think. They kept comparing sales to marines and when everything measured up short they kept focusing on more marines. I think GW today is FAR more open to investing in stuff other than marines. In things that will sell and turn a healthy profit and, most importantly, not leave a segment of the market open for other firms. Heck Epic 40K only got what 6 months before GW killed it - hardly enough time for the marketing to get going or armies outside of the Imperials and Orks to get diverse ranges of models before BOOM it was dead.
Since then it got pushed into specialist games (sold from FW and hardly marketed) and then died fully. So its been a very long time since GW tried marketing, pushing, selling and working with Epic on any kind of front.
