Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 16:56:09
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Waaagh! Warbiker
|
Albertorius wrote:See, that's a parking lot, chock full already, with no real space for meaningful maneuvering, and you don't even have all the minis on the table yet.
Just going small scale it would look exponentially better.
All minis were actually "on the table" - in transports. Looks like a normal large (2000+ point) standard 40k battle to me
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 17:03:18
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer
|
Gnarlly wrote: Albertorius wrote:See, that's a parking lot, chock full already, with no real space for meaningful maneuvering, and you don't even have all the minis on the table yet.
Just going small scale it would look exponentially better.
All minis were actually "on the table" - in transports. Looks like a normal large (2000+ point) standard 40k battle to me
Yeah, that's the look I kinda hate already, so... ^_^
Regular 40k looks bad on the table, IMHO.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 17:13:42
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Krazed Killa Kan
|
The easy question is:
Will Epic make money in a time of recession and inflation?
If no, shelved.
If yes, how will we maximize return on investment. IMO: Rescale to cut out 3dmodelers. New models. Grand Master boxed set. Rules that require purchases of other boxed sets (AT / AI). And see what happens as a weather balloon. If it sells like crazy... more. If it doesn't, shelved.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 17:14:49
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
|
doktor_g wrote:Rescale to cut out 3dmodelers. New models. Grand Master boxed set. Rules that require purchases of other boxed sets ( AT / AI). And see what happens as a weather balloon. If it sells like crazy... more. If it doesn't, shelved.
You can't rescale to cut out the 3D print market  Cause anyone with a 3d printer can rescale in seconds.
Plus we already know GW would use the same scale they use in AT and AN so that those models would cross over into Epic. So we already know the scale.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 17:22:21
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Locked in the Tower of Amareo
|
Overread wrote:Horus Heresy Epic has the benefit that it lets GW get away with making 1 faction and having both sides represented. It's what AT is currently running on and it does well for itself.
It's not what I'd like because whilst titans are basically ageless (they can advance the AT timeline to the 40K setting or any point they want and the titans don't have to change); the 30K and 40K eras in terms of infantry and tanks visually change a lot. For infantry at this scale not so much, but for tanks and such there's huge changes.
I'd also dislike it because its just more mirrormatching and whilst it works for GW in terms of mould investment; its visually far less exciting than seeing different forces facing off against each other.
Personally I' hope that AT gets chaos and then xenos titans as they advance the storyline with those models. Then we might see a return of Epic which can use AT and AN models in the 40K setting along with fresh tanks and ground forces. Heck with the AA turrets and terrain from AT and the titans and aircraft there's a good amount of groundwork already done.
Well 40k has largely all 30k vehicles available and mars/deimos varianj isn't that relevant. Automatically Appended Next Post: Sureshot05 wrote: Overread wrote:Horus Heresy Epic has the benefit that it lets GW get away with making 1 faction and having both sides represented. It's what AT is currently running on and it does well for itself.
It's not what I'd like because whilst titans are basically ageless (they can advance the AT timeline to the 40K setting or any point they want and the titans don't have to change); the 30K and 40K eras in terms of infantry and tanks visually change a lot. For infantry at this scale not so much, but for tanks and such there's huge changes.
I'd also dislike it because its just more mirrormatching and whilst it works for GW in terms of mould investment; its visually far less exciting than seeing different forces facing off against each other.
Personally I' hope that AT gets chaos and then xenos titans as they advance the storyline with those models. Then we might see a return of Epic which can use AT and AN models in the 40K setting along with fresh tanks and ground forces. Heck with the AA turrets and terrain from AT and the titans and aircraft there's a good amount of groundwork already done.
Hocus heresy epic would be a mistake. The horus heresy setting is a niche compared to the main 40k line. Epic is a niche. Creating a niche in a niche is just bad planning. I love epic armaggedon, space marine and net epic. Seeing this in the horus heresy doesn't appeal to me at all. Epic's great strength was being the main setting up scaled with a wide variety of foes on table top. Regardless of whether someone likes heresy or not, this would be limiting the buyers dramatically.
Epic started as hh. Real mistake. It's what allowed rest to come.
Complete epic isn't coming period. At least not for looong time. Maybe marines vs orks with limited amount of kits per side and then over years expand. Automatically Appended Next Post: Gnarlly wrote:I'm curious: why would a new Epic scale system be successful when GW released the new Apocalypse not so long ago (pretty much "Epic" but for standard 40k scale minis) and that system did not seem to get much traction? Many more players already have or much easier access to 40k scale minis useable with Apocalypse. A true new Epic system would require Epic scale minis which many players no longer have or are not as readily available to most players (besides 3D printing). Do you all really think a new Epic scale system would drive significant sales of new Epic scale miniatures when past experience has shown that 40k scale minis are where the market is at?
It exceeded gw's sale expectations by 400%...
What you call that? Failure? Gw wouldnt greenlight project that exceeds expectations that big and fail.
They killed it for politics. Gw didn't want side games. It was all about 40k/fb.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/12/13 17:27:29
2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 17:37:04
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
On an Express Elevator to Hell!!
|
Ah great the perennial 'new Epic is coming' rumour thread. This gives me a chance to crawl out of my fetid hole in the earth and let people know about the existing community and these threads
There is no need to wait for a new version of Epic from GW if you want to play at that scale! The scene has arguably never been stronger since the game stopped being sold, there are such a range of free rules, proxy miniatures, 3D prints available now, the community is big and is growing.
We have a great thread on people's current projects down in the depths of the specialist forum section (ignore the 30k bit in the title, it has everything): https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/791159.page
Want to have a go but not sure where to start? This thread is an attempt at a new player guide, grab a cuppa and have a read through https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
From my own perspective it would be lovely to have a range of new official plastic minis that are readily available. And it will help grow the community, for customers who don't want to remove their water wings and buy anything that doesn't have an official GW stamp and a shrink-wrapped box.
But for the rules? Going on track record best we can hope for a regurgitation of Epic Armageddon or Epic 40,000. But, looking at what has happened to Necromunda and even increasingly Blood Bowl now, I am sure if the first box sells it will be turned into a over-bloated mess of rule books, expansions that ultimately make them game completely unapproachable for anyone except the firmly committed.
Gnarlly wrote:While I agree that GW would see a new Epic as an incentive to sell more (Epic-scale) minis, history has shown that Epic scale minis just don't sell that much in comparison to 40k scale minis. There will always be the GW whales that buy anything "new" from GW but I just don't see a new Epic doing any better than its previous iterations.
Epic was a 'main' system alongside 40k and WHFB for many years, and by accounts from the time sold very well. It eventually suffered from a new system launch that tried to change too much and for various reasons the Epic 40,000 didn't appeal to both existing Epic players and new recruits. Then Armageddon didn't even get a boxset release and had a lot of the range in Specialist Games, so probably performed as well as could be expected towards the Kirby era of anything that wasn't 40k/ WHFB/ LoTR being cancelled.
I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the format and arguably the small scale suits the larger company-level engagements much better, I think it's probably why it continues to be popular and with so many proxy and 3D producers still making stuff even though the game has been officially dead for many years. GWs trick was realising that rather than selling an entire Land Raider company for <£20, they can sell them at £50+ for one tank at 28mm and people will buy three of them.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 18:03:05
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
|
Epic was fairly cheap to play, thanks to the plastic sets stuffed full of units, and how (in 2nd Ed) you went about picking your army.
Adding a unit from a Support Card was typically “buy a single Blister pack”. Non-vehicle Company Card? Buy your army’s plastic box and you’re more or less done, depending on how exotic it was.
It most definitely sold well. And as most units were a single sculpt (perhaps with alternative turrets at best), seemed cheap to produce in terms of making the original model.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 18:05:05
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Foxy Wildborne
|
New Epic would not be cheap to play. Don't expect a sprue of 80 marines and 4 Rhinos, just take a look at AI. You're looking at 3 Rhinos for 20ish quid.
|
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 18:21:35
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
|
Which I never claimed?
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 18:23:19
Subject: Re:Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
And a five-lady squad of Banshees will still cost £35.
|
Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 18:44:00
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Servoarm Flailing Magos
|
Overread wrote: doktor_g wrote:Rescale to cut out 3dmodelers. New models. Grand Master boxed set. Rules that require purchases of other boxed sets ( AT / AI). And see what happens as a weather balloon. If it sells like crazy... more. If it doesn't, shelved.
You can't rescale to cut out the 3D print market  Cause anyone with a 3d printer can rescale in seconds.
Plus we already know GW would use the same scale they use in AT and AN so that those models would cross over into Epic. So we already know the scale.
Well, we know the scale of titans, but the scale of titans is wildly inconsistent in its own way. If they were smart, they would actually scale everything but the titans down even further for a prospective Epic relaunch, to really hammer home how titanic the titans are, and to make it a much different game where transports actually have a strategic reason to exist, speed and maneuverability are much more important and tank-based artillery does not have practically unlimited range. Battlefields are much too small anyway, and opening up that design space would set epic apart from 40k quite nicely.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 18:59:18
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
|
Epic on a 4x8 is the sweet spot for 40k..
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 19:33:50
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
|
doktor_g wrote:The easy question is:
Will Epic make money in a time of recession and inflation?
If no, shelved.
If yes, how will we maximize return on investment. IMO: Rescale to cut out 3dmodelers. New models. Grand Master boxed set. Rules that require purchases of other boxed sets ( AT / AI). And see what happens as a weather balloon. If it sells like crazy... more. If it doesn't, shelved.
The weather balloon approach may seem like a smart play, but if the initial launch isn't as robust or appealing as it could be, you've set yourself up to underperform.
So much depends on the target audience and business plan. Is the idea to hook some players new to Epic (especially among the 30K community) in order to push some additional Titan and plane kits, and then call it a day? Well, then a conservative, limited scope will probably get them there.
If the idea is to create a new game with legs that appeals to Epic vets and new players alike...you're going to need to give people something more than vague comments about other factions being a possibility some years down the road. Otherwise, potential customers will decline to take the plunge. There's no doubt in my mind that this already has happened with AT, which has sold well but could easily have roped in more customers with only a xenos faction or two.
Having said all of this, I think the former scenario is more likely, just because I don't think Epic will be any higher on the priority list than AT when it comes to manufacturing. I'm just not sure what the point would be.
.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 19:45:52
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Servoarm Flailing Magos
|
gorgon wrote: doktor_g wrote:The easy question is:
Will Epic make money in a time of recession and inflation?
If no, shelved.
If yes, how will we maximize return on investment. IMO: Rescale to cut out 3dmodelers. New models. Grand Master boxed set. Rules that require purchases of other boxed sets ( AT / AI). And see what happens as a weather balloon. If it sells like crazy... more. If it doesn't, shelved.
The weather balloon approach may seem like a smart play, but if the initial launch isn't as robust or appealing as it could be, you've set yourself up to underperform.
So much depends on the target audience and business plan. Is the idea to hook some players new to Epic (especially among the 30K community) in order to push some additional Titan and plane kits, and then call it a day? Well, then a conservative, limited scope will probably get them there.
If the idea is to create a new game with legs that appeals to Epic vets and new players alike...you're going to need to give people something more than vague comments about other factions being a possibility some years down the road. Otherwise, potential customers will decline to take the plunge. There's no doubt in my mind that this already has happened with AT, which has sold well but could easily have roped in more customers with only a xenos faction or two.
Having said all of this, I think the former scenario is more likely, just because I don't think Epic will be any higher on the priority list than AT when it comes to manufacturing. I'm just not sure what the point would be.
.
Pleasing veterans and new players alike is probably a fools errand anyway... it will be 20 years since the last 'official' edition of Epic next year, everybody that still qualifies as veteran either has not played in a decade or has long since surpassed the need for GW proper and uses some sort of community or homebrew ruleset and miniatures. A relaunch of Epic as a GW main game would need to build a new player base from the ground up.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 19:48:24
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces
|
Overread wrote: gorgon wrote: Albertorius wrote:I would certainly prefer to see more factions for AT. They are harder to find than good proxies for the rest of Epic 
Right.
And I find it hard to believe that GW even wants to be in the business of making little 6mm people again. They want to push bigger, cooler, more intricate kits that really show off what they can design and create. It's too easy to find third-party 6mm stuff that looks great.
Thing is the original Epic did almost all the infantry for each faction on 1 sprue and 1 boxed set. What was varied were tanks and bigger things. Epic allows you to do a full mechancial armoured core of Imperial Guard. Heck the IG metal tanks for Epic 40K were in many ways more detailed than their plastic 40K versions - they had ammo racks and camoflage around the barrels and such.
Epic keeps the infantry simple and lets you go wild with bigger things in a more practical way. You can do legions of tanks, vast flights of aircraft; huge swarms of infantry or vast behemoth titans and demi-titans and lords of war and such. Yes you can do those things in 40K kind of; but Epic lets you do it on a whole different scale for a more practical price and amount of size/playspace/playtime.
Sure, but I also have 3d-printed Epic-scale vehicles on my Titan bases that look *great*. Tiny dudes and even tiny personnel carriers just don't feel like their sweet spot as the miniatures manufacturing company they are today. Cripes, just look at AT. They gave us the huge Warmaster kit and then turned around and gave us a Warmaster variant kit later that same year.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 19:53:22
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Servoarm Flailing Magos
|
gorgon wrote: Overread wrote: gorgon wrote: Albertorius wrote:I would certainly prefer to see more factions for AT. They are harder to find than good proxies for the rest of Epic 
Right.
And I find it hard to believe that GW even wants to be in the business of making little 6mm people again. They want to push bigger, cooler, more intricate kits that really show off what they can design and create. It's too easy to find third-party 6mm stuff that looks great.
Thing is the original Epic did almost all the infantry for each faction on 1 sprue and 1 boxed set. What was varied were tanks and bigger things. Epic allows you to do a full mechancial armoured core of Imperial Guard. Heck the IG metal tanks for Epic 40K were in many ways more detailed than their plastic 40K versions - they had ammo racks and camoflage around the barrels and such.
Epic keeps the infantry simple and lets you go wild with bigger things in a more practical way. You can do legions of tanks, vast flights of aircraft; huge swarms of infantry or vast behemoth titans and demi-titans and lords of war and such. Yes you can do those things in 40K kind of; but Epic lets you do it on a whole different scale for a more practical price and amount of size/playspace/playtime.
Sure, but I also have 3d-printed Epic-scale vehicles on my Titan bases that look *great*. Tiny dudes and even tiny personnel carriers just don't feel like their sweet spot as the miniatures manufacturing company they are today. Cripes, just look at AT. They gave us the huge Warmaster kit and then turned around and gave us a Warmaster variant kit later that same year.
One of the weaknesses of old Epic was that they were still pretty stuck in their ''5 dudes per Stand''-rule for infantry for all races, i.e. a 40k combat squad per stand. Even with the technology of the early 2000s, they could have gone and made ''horde stands'' for some of the hordier armies and units, like they did for the short-lived ''Fantasy Epic'' Warmaster. With the current technology, you could go even further and do really impressive horde blobs as opposed to sculpting every single infantry model as detailled as possible.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 19:57:40
Subject: Re:Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Executing Exarch
|
Assuming GW was considering a new version of Epic, the things that I see are these -
1.) Imperium-only is all but guaranteed, at least for the initial roll-out. This makes it easier and more cost-effective for something that GW would consider a gamble. Note that an Imperium-only roll-out can still include a heavy Guard presence. Space Marines would be guaranteed, of course. Also, including Guard would allow GW to include the anti-titan Super Heavies, which really should be part of an initial roll-out.
2.) Doesn't need to be Horus Heresy even for a mirror match set-up. The official excuse could be The Badab War, or something similar. That makes it more "modern", for those who are concerned about that. Sure, the scope is more limited. But it's not as if that really matters when you're looking for an excuse to put troops on the table. And even if it were officially a Badab setting, how many of you would complain if your opponent brought an army painted up as the Dark Angels?
3.) AT complicates things. If Phantoms and Gargants exist in AT (presumably added in the near-future) and a new Imperium-only version of Epic appears, players will expect that Eldar and Orks will be added soon to the new Epic. Others have noted that if players expect that their favorite armies will be added to Epic later, they'll be inclined to wait instead of buying in at launch. I'm of the opinion that the existence of the xenos aircraft doesn't matter as much.
Now as for the actual rumor? I'm very skeptical. Strikes me as more of a "say it often enough and eventually I'll get it right".
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 20:05:34
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
|
Epic is a more natural home for Xenos Titans, due to their historic lack of variety.
Even at the dawn of Epic, only Imperial and Chaos Titans had variety in chassis and armament.
But Epic brought genuine diversity, not just in looks and models, but playstyle.
And the same can be done again, relieving the need for the Xenos Titans to start off with a decent level of variety.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 20:06:31
Subject: Re:Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Servoarm Flailing Magos
|
Eumerin wrote:Assuming GW was considering a new version of Epic, the things that I see are these -
1.) Imperium-only is all but guaranteed, at least for the initial roll-out. This makes it easier and more cost-effective for something that GW would consider a gamble. Note that an Imperium-only roll-out can still include a heavy Guard presence. Space Marines would be guaranteed, of course. Also, including Guard would allow GW to include the anti-titan Super Heavies, which really should be part of an initial roll-out.
2.) Doesn't need to be Horus Heresy even for a mirror match set-up. The official excuse could be The Badab War, or something similar. That makes it more "modern", for those who are concerned about that. Sure, the scope is more limited. But it's not as if that really matters when you're looking for an excuse to put troops on the table. And even if it were officially a Badab setting, how many of you would complain if your opponent brought an army painted up as the Dark Angels?
3.) AT complicates things. If Phantoms and Gargants exist in AT (presumably added in the near-future) and a new Imperium-only version of Epic appears, players will expect that Eldar and Orks will be added soon to the new Epic. Others have noted that if players expect that their favorite armies will be added to Epic later, they'll be inclined to wait instead of buying in at launch. I'm of the opinion that the existence of the xenos aircraft doesn't matter as much.
Now as for the actual rumor? I'm very skeptical. Strikes me as more of a "say it often enough and eventually I'll get it right".
Initial roll-out could be pretty limited; do some of the anti-titan superheavys, do some battle tanks as a counter to them, do some infantry as a counter to the tanks. Ideally, you'd want to make a couple of superheavies together be able to seriously endanger or kill a titan, but have too few shots or whatever to beat a tank company point for point, to get some rock-paper-scissor-style tactics going among the non-titan elements, and have each 'class' of non-titan be able to bring down titans if attacking them unmolested and en masse, so that you need to have some sort of plan for countering each, either by bringing along counter-units or by including relevant arms in titan loadouts. Then later on, when that is established, you can differentiate and have anti-infantry superheavies, assault infantry, transports and the like - so practically you get a smooth transition form additional units for AT to full-on epic. Automatically Appended Next Post: Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Epic is a more natural home for Xenos Titans, due to their historic lack of variety.
Even at the dawn of Epic, only Imperial and Chaos Titans had variety in chassis and armament.
But Epic brought genuine diversity, not just in looks and models, but playstyle.
And the same can be done again, relieving the need for the Xenos Titans to start off with a decent level of variety.
Yeah, pretty much - there are what, 3.5 types of Gargant -normal, great, mega + 0.5 for the mekboy gargant - 2.5 Eldar titan - small, big, + 0.5 for the warlock -, 3 tyranid - hierodule, hierophant, dominatrix - and 2 chassis types for Tau Flyers? If we exclude the Mega-Gargant as Emperor Titan equivalent for the moment, that boils down to one scout class and one battle titan class set per xenos race, with a couple of knight-sized models thrown in for variety perhaps, and the great gargant as the only one approaching the size of a Warlord in mass. That's doable.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/13 20:16:44
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 20:43:46
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?
|
So do we have any substantial rumours or are we wishlisting and speculating again?
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 20:46:40
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Servoarm Flailing Magos
|
Malika2 wrote:So do we have any substantial rumours or are we wishlisting and speculating again?
We have Valraks word for it to be ''definitely maybe coming'', followed up by a unrelated, yet timely reminder that all rumours are always lies up until they are proven true
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 20:52:51
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
|
In terms of Xenos Titans, they don’t quite fit the same slots as their Imperial origin counterparts.
Eldar Titans tend to have fewer, but more powerful and accurate weapon systems. This is massively offset by their higher movement, agility and holofields. Of course, as ever, get through the Holofields and it’s gonna knack. Revenants are directly comparable to Warhounds, but the Phantom and Warlock are closer to Reaver than Warlord.
Orky Gargants? Lots and lots and lots of guns, but outside of the Gutbuster Belly Cannon, none are particularly good against opposing Titans. However, they’re incredibly difficult to destroy - and their guns do tend to be good at stripping void shields and keeping them stripped.
Great Gargants are probably my favourite in terms of rules and background. The chainshot (think ballistic bolas of ridiculous bore) was deadly in-game, but in-universe, was preferred because it incapacitated rather than destroyed, ensuring the Meks wot built Da Gargant had plenty of tasty scrap to collect once Da ‘Umies had been stomped.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 20:54:35
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Servoarm Flailing Magos
|
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:In terms of Xenos Titans, they don’t quite fit the same slots as their Imperial origin counterparts.
Eldar Titans tend to have fewer, but more powerful and accurate weapon systems. This is massively offset by their higher movement, agility and holofields. Of course, as ever, get through the Holofields and it’s gonna knack. Revenants are directly comparable to Warhounds, but the Phantom and Warlock are closer to Reaver than Warlord.
Orky Gargants? Lots and lots and lots of guns, but outside of the Gutbuster Belly Cannon, none are particularly good against opposing Titans. However, they’re incredibly difficult to destroy - and their guns do tend to be good at stripping void shields and keeping them stripped.
Great Gargants are probably my favourite in terms of rules and background. The chainshot (think ballistic bolas of ridiculous bore) was deadly in-game, but in-universe, was preferred because it incapacitated rather than destroyed, ensuring the Meks wot built Da Gargant had plenty of tasty scrap to collect once Da ‘Umies had been stomped.
I was mainly thinking on the level of resource investment to produce the models and assorted gubbins like command panels and so on, not in-game role.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 20:55:25
Subject: Re:Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
Just rumours. I find it rather comical that there is a rumour tracker for reliability, as it feels like an Mi5 operation for what is just toy soliders...
"Dammit Sir, we have it on our most reliable sources that Epic WILL return next year! To ignore this information is to invite disaster!"
...and then we have Valrak who gets as excited as we once did knowing the N64 was about to be released, back in the day.
|
Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 20:56:38
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
|
Tsagualsa wrote: Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:In terms of Xenos Titans, they don’t quite fit the same slots as their Imperial origin counterparts.
Eldar Titans tend to have fewer, but more powerful and accurate weapon systems. This is massively offset by their higher movement, agility and holofields. Of course, as ever, get through the Holofields and it’s gonna knack. Revenants are directly comparable to Warhounds, but the Phantom and Warlock are closer to Reaver than Warlord.
Orky Gargants? Lots and lots and lots of guns, but outside of the Gutbuster Belly Cannon, none are particularly good against opposing Titans. However, they’re incredibly difficult to destroy - and their guns do tend to be good at stripping void shields and keeping them stripped.
Great Gargants are probably my favourite in terms of rules and background. The chainshot (think ballistic bolas of ridiculous bore) was deadly in-game, but in-universe, was preferred because it incapacitated rather than destroyed, ensuring the Meks wot built Da Gargant had plenty of tasty scrap to collect once Da ‘Umies had been stomped.
I was mainly thinking on the level of resource investment to produce the models and assorted gubbins like command panels and so on, not in-game role.
I’m just enjoying an excuse to wibble about my favourite game GW ever made ever.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 21:02:11
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Servoarm Flailing Magos
|
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Tsagualsa wrote: Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:In terms of Xenos Titans, they don’t quite fit the same slots as their Imperial origin counterparts.
Eldar Titans tend to have fewer, but more powerful and accurate weapon systems. This is massively offset by their higher movement, agility and holofields. Of course, as ever, get through the Holofields and it’s gonna knack. Revenants are directly comparable to Warhounds, but the Phantom and Warlock are closer to Reaver than Warlord.
Orky Gargants? Lots and lots and lots of guns, but outside of the Gutbuster Belly Cannon, none are particularly good against opposing Titans. However, they’re incredibly difficult to destroy - and their guns do tend to be good at stripping void shields and keeping them stripped.
Great Gargants are probably my favourite in terms of rules and background. The chainshot (think ballistic bolas of ridiculous bore) was deadly in-game, but in-universe, was preferred because it incapacitated rather than destroyed, ensuring the Meks wot built Da Gargant had plenty of tasty scrap to collect once Da ‘Umies had been stomped.
I was mainly thinking on the level of resource investment to produce the models and assorted gubbins like command panels and so on, not in-game role.
I’m just enjoying an excuse to wibble about my favourite game GW ever made ever.
I still fondly remember the additional flyer missions from german White Dwarf 23, quarter of a century ago...
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 21:12:10
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
On an Express Elevator to Hell!!
|
Tsagualsa wrote: Malika2 wrote:So do we have any substantial rumours or are we wishlisting and speculating again?
We have Valraks word for it to be ''definitely maybe coming'', followed up by a unrelated, yet timely reminder that all rumours are always lies up until they are proven true
Maybe he is just an Oasis fan?
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 21:17:07
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Servoarm Flailing Magos
|
Mhhh... Stop the Clock? Don't believe the Truth? It checks out
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 21:17:40
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Gnarlly wrote:While I agree that GW would see a new Epic as an incentive to sell more (Epic-scale) minis, history has shown that Epic scale minis just don't sell that much in comparison to 40k scale minis. There will always be the GW whales that buy anything "new" from GW but I just don't see a new Epic doing any better than its previous iterations.
Heck Epic 40K only got what 6 months before GW killed it - hardly enough time for the marketing to get going or armies outside of the Imperials and Orks to get diverse ranges of models before BOOM it was dead.
It was utterly daft from a business perspective but I miss the 90s GW that would just release stuff on a hope and a prayer, without any seeming business plan, it led to some really interesting releases. In 1997 alone you had Epic 40k and Gorkamorka release and then be dead within six months but leaving behind their own legacies. From what I understand Gorkamorka was an infamous financial flop.
|
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/12/13 21:19:10
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2022/12/13 21:28:43
Subject: Epic returns in 2023?
|
 |
Servoarm Flailing Magos
|
Londinium wrote: Gnarlly wrote:While I agree that GW would see a new Epic as an incentive to sell more (Epic-scale) minis, history has shown that Epic scale minis just don't sell that much in comparison to 40k scale minis. There will always be the GW whales that buy anything "new" from GW but I just don't see a new Epic doing any better than its previous iterations.
Heck Epic 40K only got what 6 months before GW killed it - hardly enough time for the marketing to get going or armies outside of the Imperials and Orks to get diverse ranges of models before BOOM it was dead.
It was utterly daft from a business perspective but I miss the 90s GW that would just release stuff on a hope and a prayer, without any seeming business plan, it led to some really interesting releases. In 1997 alone you had Epic 40k and Gorkamorka release and then be dead within six months but leaving behind their own legacies. From what I understand Gorkamorka was an infamous financial flop.
Epic 40k was hung out to dry pretty badly, but Gorkamorka barely had any game going at all - the stylistic choices were weird; it introduced what would become the design elements of 3rd edition and onwards orks, at a time when ''Space Orks'' were still some weird amalgam of Space Nazi, in-jokes and funny random table stuff form the era of 'ere we go. Also, it had barely any discernable gameplay, effectively only one faction in endless mirror-matches up to the release of Digganob, and was set on the most boring planet you could imagine and had a paper-thin excuse for a backstory or player motivation. In other words, it was weirdly glorious if you were a very particular kind of not right in the head, and absolute rubbish in all other circumstances.
|
|
 |
 |
|