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I never got that hatred for WGF anyways. It was a good company at its time with some great product and people involved. All issues were caused by one guy, who messed everything up and, after being forced out, ripped people of with his next venture, Defiance Games.
As long as Tony isn't involved in WGA, I have no concerns and only sympathy for both company's.

Back on topic - early WW2 german PAK, eh? Will probably be nice, but I would have proffered a figures set. Such guns are not needed in huge numbers and have been available for years in different mediums by many companies. This is an item I would have rather seen as an STL, then in HIPS. Good luck with it!

Wargames Atlantic is not Wargames factory.

There is no connection.

There may be similarities as both companies are or were miniatures manufacturers.

The companies are completely different entities, full stop.

Now, moving onwards:

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
Speaking of reminiscent… I came across this wiki today and learned a bit of Wargames Factory history I was unaware. I noticed the 1000 preorders to put something into production “Liberty and Union League”. This seems very similar to the new 1000 votes to get a kit to the front of the production line program of WGA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wargames_Factory

They looks as similar between them as any other preorder of the "ransom" variety to me.

 Wargames Atlantic wrote:
Wargames Atlantic is not Wargames factory.

There is no connection.

There may be similarities as both companies are or were miniatures manufacturers.

The companies are completely different entities, full stop.

Now, moving onwards:

That sounds very definitive yet does not really explain similarities.

So are you saying WGA does not use any of the artists as Wargames Factory did?

That WGA did not use the same Chinese production company as Wargames Factory did before WGA moved production to the USA?

What about Defiance Games? I had forgotten about them, thank you for the reminder Garfield666.

There does appear to by stylistic similarities between WGA‘s Harvesters - Alien Bugs and Defiance‘s Alien Bugs Hudson‘s Bugs Drones. Was the same artist employed? Waś WGA merely inspired by the Defiance design? Was it merely a coincidence?

https://www.nobleknight.com/Publisher/Defiance-Games

There are also some design similarities between the WGA Ooh-rah designs and the Defiance Marines, as well as to a lesser degree the Eisenkern and Raumjaeger to Defiance Panzer Grenadiers.

https://stalker7.com/2012/05/11/defiance-games-marines/

It seems unlikely that there is zero connection and all these similarities are a mere coincidence but if that is the case I would like WGA to very clearly state that. If WGA employed the same artists (such as Tim Barry or Max Martelli) as either Defiance of Wargames Factory, that seems fine with me but others may not agree and either way I believe transparency is the best way to increase consumer confidence.

https://defiance250.rssing.com/chan-20869230/all_p1.html

Edit: I think a WGA kit with a PAK 36 scaled to match the other WGA WW2 figures as part of it could do well. Certainly as well as any of their other WW2 German kits.

 Wargames Atlantic wrote:
Wargames Atlantic is not Wargames factory.

There is no connection.

There may be similarities as both companies are or were miniatures manufacturers.

The companies are completely different entities, full stop.

Now, moving onwards:

WW2 Soviet artillery I'd say.

Grumpy Gnome, have you ever stopped to consider you may be overthinking matters?

Either buy Wargames Atlantic products or don't.

When it comes to 'Bugs', you may as well ask if they are linked to Games Workshop or Verhoeven's design team for Starship Troopers.

As for "but others may not agree and either way I believe transparency is the best way to increase consumer confidence."

You appear to be the first person since the Raumsjager were released to ask for 'transparency' so I'm not sure where "others may not agree" comes from.

 alphaecho wrote:


Grumpy Gnome, have you ever stopped to consider you may be overthinking matters?

Either buy Wargames Atlantic products or don't.

When it comes to 'Bugs', you may as well ask if they are linked to Games Workshop or Verhoeven's design team for Starship Troopers.

As for "but others may not agree and either way I believe transparency is the best way to increase consumer confidence."

You appear to be the first person since the Raumsjager were released to ask for 'transparency' so I'm not sure where "others may not agree" comes from.

I like to have more information before making decisions rather than making assumptions. Hence I ask for clarity. I care enough to openly ask directly. WGA can chose to answer or not. That said, yes many times folks have told me that I care too much, think too much and wear my heart on my sleeve. That is what it is to be a Grumpy Gnome.

The WGA and Defiance Bugs are certainly more similar to each other aesthetically than the GW products or Verhoeven‘s Arachnids. In particular the head/face. There are of course some stark differences, like the number of legs. And there generic features that do appear on alien bugs from many companies such as GW… the sharply pointed ends of their limbs. But the head and face does strike a certain similarity.

The Marines share at the very least two features some folks have complained about on the Ooh-rah figures, the rolled up sleeves and the thigh straps. Personally I do not mind the thigh straps but I do wish at least some of the arms had the sleeves rolled down in the WGA kit.

WGA did not ned to come in here to clarify anything.

However In this thread they have repeated that they share no association with WGF.

In a public (ish) forum.

Its on record.

It is irrelevant if artists and sculptors have worked with WGF defiance or others in the past. (WGA are probably treating these individuals and companies better anyway)

Bugs and marines are the tropiest tropes out there. If there weren't similarities they wouldn't be Bugs or Marines.

Haven’t they said they hired artists and sculptors who previously worked with WGF? So the similarities aren’t any more sinister than the similarities between Mantic’s Enforcers’ weapons and Sedition Wars’ weapons, resulting from Mantic hiring the same artist as McVey.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Haven’t they said they hired artists and sculptors who previously worked with WGF? So the similarities aren’t any more sinister than the similarities between Mantic’s Enforcers’ weapons and Sedition Wars’ weapons, resulting from Mantic hiring the same artist as McVey.

If so, why not give the artists some public acknowledgment?

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Haven’t they said they hired artists and sculptors who previously worked with WGF? So the similarities aren’t any more sinister than the similarities between Mantic’s Enforcers’ weapons and Sedition Wars’ weapons, resulting from Mantic hiring the same artist as McVey.

If so, why not give the artists some public acknowledgment?

Its not if so. It is.



WGA seem nice, they may provide that info. But it may be commercially sensitive information.

Just remember you are not entitled to any information on artists and the products and services they provide to WGA.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Haven’t they said they hired artists and sculptors who previously worked with WGF? So the similarities aren’t any more sinister than the similarities between Mantic’s Enforcers’ weapons and Sedition Wars’ weapons, resulting from Mantic hiring the same artist as McVey.

If so, why not give the artists some public acknowledgment?

Its not if so. It is.



WGA seem nice, they may provide that info. But it may be commercially sensitive information.

Just remember you are not entitled to any information on artists and the products and services they provide to WGA.

I do not claim entitlement but I do not see the harm in asking. Hudson Adams provided some nice transparency recently in a Wargames Illustrated interview regarding the WGA STL program. I would like to see more of that kind of transparency. I have been supportive of WGA for quite some time and that is easy enough for anyone to check up on.

I do not make assumptions of malice in regards to WGA. I would hope no one would make assumptions of malice on my part for asking questions.

It is easy enough to politely clarify my questions in a friendly manner. I realize reading tone on the internet is challenging so I may be off base here but there seems a bit of hostility in some these posts from folks regarding me asking these questions.

If WGA hired artists that previously worked for Defiance or WGF or any other company and subsequently worked for WGA and updated/modified/changed/ were inspired by their previous design that would of interest for me to know. The development of the Fallout Ip fascinates me and I am curious about a potential corollary in wargame miniatures design. At the same time such information from WGA can help kill rumors that some people still wonder about.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Haven’t they said they hired artists and sculptors who previously worked with WGF? So the similarities aren’t any more sinister than the similarities between Mantic’s Enforcers’ weapons and Sedition Wars’ weapons, resulting from Mantic hiring the same artist as McVey.

If so, why not give the artists some public acknowledgment?

I'm not saying this because I know something, just an outside, uninformed observation... Even GW stopped acknowledging individual artists after the Chapterhouse lawsuit because it left open a legal argument about 'ownership' and caused a good portion of their case to get tossed.

I would suspect, its more about branding and cohesion this IS WARGAMES ATLANTIC not WGA starring .... and.... and.... and if I had independent modelers working for me, I would think long and hard about how I put that out there. There are just a ton of issues that can arise when there is no need to even go there.

The only reason I have billing is because they were existing kits, they are my IP and most people know the mini's.

.

 NoseGoblin wrote:

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Haven’t they said they hired artists and sculptors who previously worked with WGF? So the similarities aren’t any more sinister than the similarities between Mantic’s Enforcers’ weapons and Sedition Wars’ weapons, resulting from Mantic hiring the same artist as McVey.

If so, why not give the artists some public acknowledgment?

I'm not saying this because I know something, just an outside, uninformed observation... Even GW stopped acknowledging individual artists after the Chapterhouse lawsuit because it left open a legal argument about 'ownership' and caused a good portion of their case to get tossed.

I would suspect, its more about branding and cohesion this IS WARGAMES ATLANTIC not WGA starring .... and.... and.... and if I had independent modelers working for me, I would think long and hard about how I put that out there. There are just a ton of issues that can arise when there is no need to even go there.

The only reason I have billing is because they were existing kits, they are my IP and most people know the mini's.

.

A well reasoned and valid point diplomatically presented.

That said, I really enjoyed the artist design video WGA put out for their Warring States Chinese that are in development. https://wargamesatlantic.com/blogs/news/new-range-warring-states

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

If so, why not give the artists some public acknowledgment?

They have sculptor and artist credits on their online store for each product.

You're making a big deal out of nothing, here.

As it seems the topic of discussion, the similarities in name and sprue design would originally given alot of people pause, myself included. Not because it involved the Defiance games 'character' but more likely the same Chinese factory. I've since heard they have moved production back to the west, which makes me more inclined to purchase their products, but there will need to be something that comes up as a 'need' rather than a want (which doesn't mean a new product, just perhaps a new project on my part) before I commit the time to do the proper research to ensure production is in fact made east of the Pacific.

 NoseGoblin wrote:


I'm not saying this because I know something, just an outside, uninformed observation... Even GW stopped acknowledging individual artists after the Chapterhouse lawsuit because it left open a legal argument about 'ownership' and caused a good portion of their case to get tossed.

In the UK at least, I think that's why Lucasfilm lost the Stormtrooper armour case and why the branding "Original Stormtrooper" now exists on lots of products that will never see Star Wars on the packaging.

Anyhoo, I skipped the Ooo Ra but am eagerly awaiting the Landsknecht Ogres so I can build them up as The Vain. I think I even have some Curious Constructs pith helmet Ogre heads left over from earlier projects.

Then there are still four boxes of Bulldogs to kitbash/ convert/ mix n match with the new Cadians and hopefully a box of Harvesters on the way. In fact, what do I have to look forward to once I'm back home in May?

1. Finishing off my Last Chancers inspired Cannon Fodder conversions now that the female Fodder are at home.
2. Printed Cannon Fodder civilian parts.
3. Printed human Death Fields Security.

That list only gets bigger if The Damned come to Only-Games for printing.

 alphaecho wrote:

 NoseGoblin wrote:


I'm not saying this because I know something, just an outside, uninformed observation... Even GW stopped acknowledging individual artists after the Chapterhouse lawsuit because it left open a legal argument about 'ownership' and caused a good portion of their case to get tossed.

In the UK at least, I think that's why Lucasfilm lost the Stormtrooper armour case and why the branding "Original Stormtrooper" now exists on lots of products that will never see Star Wars on the packaging.

Yet other manufacturers seem quite able to do so. Looks like if you have proper contracts in place making it clear artists are signing over their rights (and being paid appropriately to do so) it doesn't seem much of a problem.

 Dawnbringer wrote:

Yet other manufacturers seem quite able to do so. Looks like if you have proper contracts in place making it clear artists are signing over their rights (and being paid appropriately to do so) it doesn't seem much of a problem.

GW's policy of not listing artists was supposedly an online safety thing, rather than a consequence of the Chapterhouse case. And the Stormtrooper thing was a rights issue stemming from the original design commission. While there are certainly some parallels there to the issues with GW's historical handling of art rights that were brought up during that case, it's a completely separate issue to naming artists on their work.

But, again, none of that is particularly relevant here, since WGA does list their artists for each product on their webstore.

 insaniak wrote:

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

If so, why not give the artists some public acknowledgment?

They have sculptor and artist credits on their online store for each product.

You're making a big deal out of nothing, here.

Well, it would seem I have been making something of a fool of myself in that regard. Someone could have pointed out earlier for example that WGA lists Thieu Duong as the sculptor of Ooh-rah and Harvester sets. As you are quite correct Insaniak, WGA does indeed list that. Thank you for clarifying that for me Insaniak.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
. Someone could have pointed out earlier for example that WGA lists Thieu Duong as the sculptor of Ooh-rah and Harvester sets.

Someone could have pointed out to you? Interesting take.

In all of your research, did you not go to the actual Wargames Atlantic website and read either the product pages or the News updates?

 alphaecho wrote:

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
. Someone could have pointed out earlier for example that WGA lists Thieu Duong as the sculptor of Ooh-rah and Harvester sets.

Someone could have pointed out to you? Interesting take.

In all of your research, did you not go to the actual Wargames Atlantic website and read either the product pages or the News updates?

I have been on the Wargmes Atlantic website, and numerous other websites, extensively. I overlooked the sculptor entry on the catalog entry of each product page. Sometimes the simplest things get overlooked by me because despite my dislike of assumptions I occasionally make them. Mea culpa.

That said I have been unable to ascertain if Thieu Duong was the artist for the Defiance Bugs and Marines for example. I suppose I will never know.

It would seem this line of inquiry has alienated me from several people on these forums however and will desist. Lesson learned.

My intent was not malicious but in hindsight not phrased diplomatically enough. Again, lesson learned.

Not alienated. Slightly bemused.

Whatever you do, don't research links between GW, Warlord, Mantic, River Horse and many others.

You'll be there forever.

Yeah, the industry really isn't that big. You'll find the same names cropping up in all sorts of places. It's not usually a sign of anything nefarious.


So... New models, eh?

 insaniak wrote:
Yeah, the industry really isn't that big. You'll find the same names cropping up in all sorts of places. It's not usually a sign of anything nefarious.


So... New models, eh?

The new releases page indicates the Ogres and Harvesters could be on a ship ti Blighty by first week of March.

That's enough to get me tingly.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

 alphaecho wrote:

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
. Someone could have pointed out earlier for example that WGA lists Thieu Duong as the sculptor of Ooh-rah and Harvester sets.

Someone could have pointed out to you? Interesting take.

In all of your research, did you not go to the actual Wargames Atlantic website and read either the product pages or the News updates?

I have been on the Wargmes Atlantic website, and numerous other websites, extensively. I overlooked the sculptor entry on the catalog entry of each product page. Sometimes the simplest things get overlooked by me because despite my dislike of assumptions I occasionally make them. Mea culpa.

That said I have been unable to ascertain if Thieu Duong was the artist for the Defiance Bugs and Marines for example. I suppose I will never know.

It would seem this line of inquiry has alienated me from several people on these forums however and will desist. Lesson learned.

My intent was not malicious but in hindsight not phrased diplomatically enough. Again, lesson learned.

You could see if he has a Facebook page and message him.

No need to give us the answers or updates though.

 Theophony wrote:

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

 alphaecho wrote:

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
. Someone could have pointed out earlier for example that WGA lists Thieu Duong as the sculptor of Ooh-rah and Harvester sets.

Someone could have pointed out to you? Interesting take.

In all of your research, did you not go to the actual Wargames Atlantic website and read either the product pages or the News updates?

I have been on the Wargmes Atlantic website, and numerous other websites, extensively. I overlooked the sculptor entry on the catalog entry of each product page. Sometimes the simplest things get overlooked by me because despite my dislike of assumptions I occasionally make them. Mea culpa.

That said I have been unable to ascertain if Thieu Duong was the artist for the Defiance Bugs and Marines for example. I suppose I will never know.

It would seem this line of inquiry has alienated me from several people on these forums however and will desist. Lesson learned.

My intent was not malicious but in hindsight not phrased diplomatically enough. Again, lesson learned.

You could see if he has a Facebook page and message him.

No need to give us the answers or updates though.

I cancelled my Facebook account a few years ago. It is not a platform I care to support anymore despite once being a big fan of its convenience. But I do appreciate the suggestion.

As the mod Insaniak has pointed out, my query is not relevant here and will discontinue it. However I felt it only polite to reply to you Theophony as you took the time to post the suggestion.

 insaniak wrote:
Yeah, the industry really isn't that big. You'll find the same names cropping up in all sorts of places. It's not usually a sign of anything nefarious.


So... New models, eh?

Looking forward to the field guns. Having a cheap source of artillery platforms for things from 40k Rapier Batteries to Guard Autocannons to actual WW2 models will be fantastic.

So back to Quar, I'm guessing they will not be a Q1 release . Really looking forward to them, though.

Got to say I love the Ooh-Rah and Harvester Bugs......they hit just the right marine/bug aesthetic to me. I've been really looking to cut down my number of projects though, as I don't have time for nearly all of them, but I may just offload a different one to get the gears turning on some bug hunting action.