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I mean, no one is making more Cadians unless there is a book out that deals with a eugenics program I'm not aware of, so that being said, it's an entirely dead sub faction of the IG, right? It's akin to the Tanith. There will never be another "Cadian" so why do we still have such a hobby hard on for them? Can we please just make them a new faction of soldiers, and say they are "baseline guard"?

I mean, if the books are anything to go by, Cadians are dropping by the regiment to fighting with Chaos, so they can't logistically keep up right? No one's popping out new Cadians at the rate they're dying, and even if they were, they're not Cadians. Just make the Catachan the official Guard stand in, and be done with it.

So how many decades/years will it take for all born Cadians to be effectively dead. Creed is in Suspended animation right?

There are 10(?) planets remaining in the Cadian System, plus they have multiple colonies in other systems.

People like underdogs and comeback stories, revenge is a powerful motivator for characters and stories, 'tragic backstory' is something you often use as instant characterization if you're a lazy writer - i don't see Cadians going away anytime soon. Maybe take a step out of the limelight once the practically inevitable Krieg/Steel legion plastics comes around eventually, but they'll never not be famous.

You’d first need to consider what is means to be Cadian.

I’d argue it’s not “were you born on Cadia”, as I think it’s more of a culture than a place.

Given almost the entire world’s population was militarised, that’s potentially many billion Cadians out there in the wild. Sure they won’t be raising any more children on Cadia, but their children will still be raised as Cadians.

You want a world for them? There are plenty to choose from, even if it means shipping an existing population elsewhere (I’d suggest a Feudal World, due to lower population density, non-depleted natural resources and favourable environmental conditions) - and the Imperium is certainly more than capable of doing just that.

You then have a New Cadia where future generations are born to and raised by Actual Cadians, without influence from other worlds or cultures, meaning you’ll get “purebred” Cadians, exposed solely to Cadian training and traditions every single time.

In one of the Cadia Stands series, the lead SGT female Protagonist clearly states a disdain for non-cadian born people in cadian units. The bigotry is also observed by other leaders, who do nothing to actually stop it. Cadian hatred towards Cadians not born on Cadia is a real thing, and it's clearly in the lore. I would advocate for a penalty for any Cadian lists that integrate from other non-cadian Guard.

In his address at the conclusion of the Eye of Terror campaign, Creed ordered Cadian regiments to recruit from worlds other than Cadia.

So is a Vostoyan serving in a Catachan unit a Catachan? No. I don't understand the love affair with Cadians. Wouldn't people like to see a refresh of literally any other IG regiment? Valhallans, Ellysiuans, and Tallarn come to mind.

Nah, all non-Cadian regiments are not of the vanilla flavor, and all have one gimmick or another. A poster faction for IG should be a general-purpose regiment, and that has always been Cadian.

Sure they can create a new regiment, like an RT "imperial army". But just like Ultramarines is the all-rounder of SMs and player can just buy UM minis a paint them non-blue and say they are Iron Hands, any player can buy Cadian minis and just paint them khaki and say "mine are the Deutsch Nicht Rassistisch Zweite Armee and they specialise in mobile warfare".

 lcmiracle wrote:
Nah, all non-Cadian regiments are not of the vanilla flavor, and all have one gimmick or another. A poster faction for IG should be a general-purpose regiment, and that has always been Cadian.

Sure they can create a new regiment, like an RT "imperial army". But just like Ultramarines is the all-rounder of SMs and player can just buy UM minis a paint them non-blue and say they are Iron Hands, any player can buy Cadian minis and just paint them khaki and say "mine are the Deutsch Nicht Rassistisch Zweite Armee and they specialise in mobile warfare".

It hasn't always been Cadians- in 1st edition and early 2nd we had regiments like the Necromundan "Spiders" and the Arcadian regiments as the default, based on the 1st ed models.

GW just renewed the Cadian line of models. It is safe to say Cadians will be the poster child for the Imperial Guard for at least the next decade. Others will get their own books released, but Cadians are the standard.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So is a Vostoyan serving in a Catachan unit a Catachan? No. I don't understand the love affair with Cadians. Wouldn't people like to see a refresh of literally any other IG regiment? Valhallans, Ellysiuans, and Tallarn come to mind.

A single soldier from Vostroya who ends up integrated into a Catachan Regiment is a Catachan Guardsman. Amalgamations happen in the Guard and Catachans respect strength and skill. There is even a novel where a Regiment adopts the lone survivor of another destroyed non-Catachan Regiment because the Guardsman proves himself to be worthy of the Catachan name.
Regardless of that, Cadian is not just a planet it's a creed (pun intended). While some Cadian Guardsmen from the planet itself might look down on them, they also look down on those who weren't there to defend the homeworld during the 13th Black Crusade, almost like they're suffering trauma at the loss of their home and are lashing out at people they can easily "blame".
Being a Cadian isn't just about where someone was born or if they have violet eyes in the same way that being a Scot doesn't require ginger hair and a drinking problem. The Cadians aren't going to disappear overnight when they've spent the last eight thousand-ish years at the forefront of the Imperial Guard's war efforts all over the galaxy. They have a strong culture and legacy so even if there are no Cadians left who were born on the planet itself, the people (and the Regiment) still live on.

The cadian exodus over the millennia is huge, to the point where after the indomitus crusade, one of the most common names for an imperial world (aside from the system name and an orbital number, such as Medusa V) is some linguistic variation on 'New Cadia'.

Tsagualsa wrote:
People like underdogs and comeback stories, revenge is a powerful motivator for characters and stories, 'tragic backstory' is something you often use as instant characterization if you're a lazy writer - i don't see Cadians going away anytime soon. Maybe take a step out of the limelight once the practically inevitable Krieg/Steel legion plastics comes around eventually, but they'll never not be famous.

Sure no literary giants have had characters with tragic backstories, just lazy writers.

Internet media and literary analysis can really be so confidently terrible :/

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So is a Vostoyan serving in a Catachan unit a Catachan? No. I don't understand the love affair with Cadians. Wouldn't people like to see a refresh of literally any other IG regiment? Valhallans, Ellysiuans, and Tallarn come to mind.

You’re looking at it through far too simple a lens.

Let’s say a regiment, originating from Cadia at its first founding is one of those regiments which has survived a century or five, going from warzone to warzone, constantly replenishing their ranks - and by no means exclusively from Cadia itself.

As a warrior culture, whilst if your citation above of what amounts to a racist Cadian holds true? That doesn’t make it universally so. A Cadian originating regiment might well have a higher standard competence expected, and a comparatively punishing training regime to maintain that competence. But like any unit of soldiery, provided you’re not deadweight, or worse, an idiot putting your brothers and sisters at arms in more danger than absolutely necessary? You’ll like be accepted into the fold. Because your squad, platoon, command and regiment has a deeply vested interest in remaining cohesive and unified.

One soldier out of billions being a judgey racist Butthole does not make the remaining billions judgey racist buttholes.

I'm sorry, I just think Cadian's are dumb, their "Cadia is forever in our hearts" is dumb, and they are literally the least interesting of the available sub-factions. Catachan is cooler, has better Characters, and a much cooler back story. Steel Legion and Death Korps are just more bamf in every respect, and Vostoyans are just the Vostoyans have better models. Leaving out the FW stuff like the Elysian drop troops who were basically Scions before Scions, I feel like Cadians are just boring Green and Khaki troops. They're so bland it burns. I have an entire 1k army of Cadians I painted in 2018, and I'm sick of GW pushing them when almost every other sub-faction is better or sells better.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
They're so bland it burns.

Congratulations you have discovered the point of the Cadians. They are the generic SciFi troopers that can be used to easily represent any one player's custom Regiment. The models are the blank canvas on which players can make Their Dudes without having to worry about falling into specific tropes like with the Catachans or Death Korps.
Does your Regiment's homeworld have ties to the Mechanicus? Put Skitarri Vanguard heads on the Cadians to give them that mechanical feel. How about more historical influences? Stick some Freeguild heads on there with big feathered hats or cavalry helms. Want to make a Necromundan Regiment? Grab some bitz from various gangs and spruce up the simple Cadian models to make them Your Dudes.
No other Regiment works as well as the Build Your Own faction baseplate as Cadia does.
As for the background, most other Regiments have a single world to produce new troops from, and even the likes of Catachan and Krieg can't outpace the recruitment of the Cadians because those Regiments are recruited from an entire sector of space. Combine that with Regiments that are sent to train other Guard Regiments and you then have pseudo Cadians that in many cases might just well be made proper Cadians.

I'm sick of GW pushing them when almost every other sub-faction is better or sells better.

Pretty sure there's no evidence to suggest that the second part is true.

 Gert wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
They're so bland it burns.

Congratulations you have discovered the point of the Cadians. They are the generic SciFi troopers that can be used to easily represent any one player's custom Regiment. The models are the blank canvas on which players can make Their Dudes without having to worry about falling into specific tropes like with the Catachans or Death Korps.
Does your Regiment's homeworld have ties to the Mechanicus? Put Skitarri Vanguard heads on the Cadians to give them that mechanical feel. How about more historical influences? Stick some Freeguild heads on there with big feathered hats or cavalry helms. Want to make a Necromundan Regiment? Grab some bitz from various gangs and spruce up the simple Cadian models to make them Your Dudes.
No other Regiment works as well as the Build Your Own faction baseplate as Cadia does.
As for the background, most other Regiments have a single world to produce new troops from, and even the likes of Catachan and Krieg can't outpace the recruitment of the Cadians because those Regiments are recruited from an entire sector of space. Combine that with Regiments that are sent to train other Guard Regiments and you then have pseudo Cadians that in many cases might just well be made proper Cadians.

I'm sick of GW pushing them when almost every other sub-faction is better or sells better.

Pretty sure there's no evidence to suggest that the second part is true.

The only posible way to make any comparison would perhaps be comparing the sales of the plastic kreigers vs the plastic guardsmen kits. But, it's a little tricky to gauge since most hard core guard players tend to have laaaaarge armies anyway. Not sure if i'll be buying many if any of the new guard models, don't need em much.

The only lost opportunity of the new Cadian kit is the lack of non-Cadian bits.

But, the Cadians are always easy to convert to the Mordian since the Mordians' only visual distinction, apart from their officers, are their hats. I argue it's possible to make a coat extension optional bit to turn them into trenchcoats. So Vahallan/Vostroyan/Mordian upgrade kits are possible in the future, since it'd be a smaller investment to GW.

Tallarns and Catachans, on the other hand, are going to be harder. Catachans' unbuttoned jacket look would require completely new torsos and arms. Tallarn maybe doable with just trenchcoats and new heads? Both Catachans and Tallarns got new kits recently/upcoming too, maybe a sign.

Catachan got several stand alone models, which due to FOMO were scalped almost before they were supposed to hit shelves. Like, remember the Carl Wethers Col? Remember what he went for on Ebay? Highest I saw was 450 for still in wrapper.

The female SGT was almost as bad. But honestly, there are extremely few updates that aren't stand alone set pieces or BL characters. The Krieg kits were a mess, and only based around the stupid KT armies.

I don't think GW will ever mass update Catachans, Vostoyans, and Tallarns, given how slow they drip feed other more sexy sub factions. Looking at YOU Space Marine Chapter that no one asked for.

Hopefully very soon..... LONG LIVE KRIEG

There is an entire page worth of fluff in the new codex explaining that Cadians will never go away. So there is that.

Dai wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
People like underdogs and comeback stories, revenge is a powerful motivator for characters and stories, 'tragic backstory' is something you often use as instant characterization if you're a lazy writer - i don't see Cadians going away anytime soon. Maybe take a step out of the limelight once the practically inevitable Krieg/Steel legion plastics comes around eventually, but they'll never not be famous.

Sure no literary giants have had characters with tragic backstories, just lazy writers.

Internet media and literary analysis can really be so confidently terrible :/

I wrote 'often', not 'always' - of course a good writer can write good tragic backstories, but 'tragic backstory' is also a convenient shortcut to spice up otherwise flat or uninspiring characters and stories, especially in genres like pulp or comic books, where authors often operate under considerable time and space constraints.

 AtoMaki wrote:
There is an entire page worth of fluff in the new codex explaining that Cadians will never go away. So there is that.

Clearly this is not "killing Cadia", this is "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger". I recall that the IG codex after Cadia's fall had a line stating that more and more regiments began to adopt Cadian wargear standards because of their courage. It is simply a tool to confirm in-universe why Cadians are the generic kit, and almost everyone will dress like them from then on.

Hell, it won't suprise me that the next artworks of the other released Guards will wear the flak armour outside their trenchcoats/longcoats! Think about the 30 quid regiment upgrade kits that will include only heads (ok maybe for the cadians a couple pairs of muscular, bare arms)! The monies!

Cadians don’t have a specific uniform though? They just use standard issue Munitorum uniform.

It’s been reinterpreted over the years of course, but it’s a reflection of this, the original Imperial Guard One Size Fits None uniform/fatigues.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Cadians don’t have a specific uniform though? They just use standard issue Munitorum uniform.

It’s been reinterpreted over the years of course, but it’s a reflection of this, the original Imperial Guard One Size Fits None uniform/fatigues.

So, let's take the 2nd edition Cadians for example

Notice they have no flak armour like they do since, but still wears a button up over coat does not extend to the knees



Now to the other regiments
Vostroyan wears a cuirass over their long coats (which reaches their knees)

The steel legion wears no outside armour and has an overcoat that reaches the knees

Vahallan wears a long coat that reaches the ankles that covers a possible flak armour underneath

The Mordians has a dress coat that's like the 2nd edition Cadians, and no flak armour over the dress coat

Edit: forgot Tallarn... Basically longcoat and turbans


The biggest difference, if you just want a mini that sort of looks like one of those in a distance, are the helmets. So they had just made Cadian's dress coat longer, and say every other regiment now uses the "standard" flak armour worn over their dress coats, an upgrade kit is simply a head kit.

But having Catachans are right out since their shirts are bascially a 3++ save by this point

Though yes, the Karl Weathers kit does suggest they can wear "normal" flak armours as long as they wear a shirt or nothing underneach

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Cadians don’t have a specific uniform though? They just use standard issue Munitorum uniform.

It’s been reinterpreted over the years of course, but it’s a reflection of this, the original Imperial Guard One Size Fits None uniform/fatigues.

Do they? I haven't come across anything stating Cadians use standard Departmento Munitorum gear, only that many regiments choose to copy the successful Cadian model. Cadia uses equipment local to Cadia- they usually have Kantrael and Accatran pattern gear because those forge worlds are close.

In contrast, the standard Munitorum lasgun is the Galaxy pattern, not the Kantrael (essentially the Catachan lasgun, this looks to be a carbine variant of the Galaxy).

Those 1st ed models are, to me, quite a different uniform to the Cadians, that seems to be used by a number of core worlds like Necromunda. We have seen part of a modernised version:

But that model is Necromunda 8th (Spiders)? Not sure that would demonstrate a galactic standard issue?

 lcmiracle wrote:

The biggest difference, if you just want a mini that sort of looks like one of those in a distance, are the helmets. So they had just made Cadian's dress coat longer, and say every other regiment now uses the "standard" flak armour worn over their dress coats, an upgrade kit is simply a head kit.

Eh, I think it is more than heads/helmets. There are a number of key differences beyond head which do stand out. Shoulder, hands, lasgun, boots, coat length, and torso are all important for how the models look.

For example, I really notice when Krieg are mixed with Steel Legion, because Krieg have longer coats buttoned back with puttees instead of long boots, and cuffed sleeves rather than long-cuffed gloves. The style of lasgun is also very different- Krieg lasrifles don't suit fighting from Chimeras like the folding-stock lascarbines of the Armageddon troopers. The heads are the most similar parts of the kit.

Likewise, the epaulets on Mordians are very distinctive, so headswaps alone is not enough IMO.

The same is true for most of the regiment styles.

 lcmiracle wrote:
Notice they have no flak armour like they do since, but still wears a button up over coat does not extend to the knees

Small note: the thick vest the 2nd edition metal Cadians wear is THE historically accurate IRL flak armor, the French OD Flak Jacket, to be exact. The hard body armor the new Cadians wear is technically not flak armor but plate armor, tho in the 40k universe armor appears to be categorized by protection rating rather than function.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But that model is Necromunda 8th (Spiders)? Not sure that would demonstrate a galactic standard issue?

It doesn't, I don't think there is much of a galactic standard issue. It is quite clearly an update of the old 1st ed aesthetic though, you can even see the squad marking roundel and the tan gaiters. However, Necromunda is an enormous munitions producer, so their style probably represents the standard look for the surrounding region, who are probably equipped from Necromunda.

I think the Cadian aesthetic is different.