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Made in ru
Longtime Dakkanaut





How is it that Space marines, or others, get drawn to nurgle and worship him

For Khorne it’s the blood lust and unbridled carnage, must be appealing for a being made for war

For slaneesh the excesses of combat are an easy draw for a space marines as well as the idea of perfection in combat and the arrogance of thinking you are the best

Tzeench offers the powers of the arcane

But nurgle?? Maggots? Immune to poison is a good one I suppose

Anything else?
   
Made in gb
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





Nurgle is relief from suffering and despair

The Death Guard weren't corrupted because they got sick, they were corrupted because of the hopelessness brought on by the sickness

That's why the daemons of nurgle are depicted as being happy and jubilant, they represent what you could have if you join the Grandfather's service.

It's not "You get sick = you fall to nurgle", it's:

You get sick
You suffer debilitating, excruciating effects from the sickness
You feel hopeless at your impending death
You beg for relief (either literally or figuratively)
Nurgle comes to you and offers you salvation
You fall to Nurgle
Nurgle cures you of the suffering from the disease, but leaves you still infected - just not bothered by it
You become a carrier, spreading the disease to others, repeating the cycle

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Charax absolutely nailed it.
 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Charax absolutely nailed it.

You live with the disease. You know others will be happy once infected and embracing Grandfather’s blessings.

For Warriors Born, the appeal will also be being able to shrug off wounds which once might’ve be debilitated you.

   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Each God represents many different facets.

For many Nurgle brings relief from suffering and pain which for Astartes is often down to desperation during a doomed last stand or despair at failing due to a perceived lack of resilience. The Grey Death formed from the battered and run-down remains of the Iron Drakes Chapter which had suffered an entire century of warfare against the Death Guard during the Abyssal Crusade. The Death Guard deliberately let the Drakes run a long and grueling guerilla campaign to whittle down their men, supplies, and resolve. Many Drakes were corrupted by the Warp and turned into screaming trees that whittled down their remaining Brothers' resolve to fight. Eventually the remnants of the Iron Drakes surrendered and pledged to Nurgle so that their suffering would end.

Another aspect of Nurgle is that of a God of death and decay. The Purge fell to Nurgle after becoming convinced that the galaxy was hopelessly corrupt and that only death brought purity. They are well known for using chemical and biological weapons that annihilate all life forms. The Purge included themselves amongst the ranks of the impure and once their grim task is complete, they too will be destroyed in one final act of purification. The tragic irony of the Purge is that they do not realise their crusade is hopeless, for all the damage they do simply feeds into the cycle of life where bacteria and microbes feed on the corpses and ruins the Purge create.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






As I’ve often argued, one also needs to keep in mind Nurgle is a God of life. Abundant, fecund life. Life unrestrained and unsanitised.

Every form of life is precious to Nurgle, from the smallest microbe or virus, to the largest multicellular organism. The insanity of Nurgle (from the human perspective, I feel if we take our ego out of it he may actually have a point) is seeing all life is exactly equal. Complexity isn’t a bonus. Where one complex lifeform perishes, it rots. And from that rot innumerable other forms of life take root, breed, live and die in an seemingly endless cycle.

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Certainly in the Old World and AoS, you can make the case that Nurgle is actually a better God for Life than Alariel. Since she tends to favour very select species over others and indeed takes the very human/western view of "life gods" focusing on mammals, birds, pretty plants and animated plantlife.

Meanwhile Nurgle likes all that, but also every single microbe of life. Nurgle's gardens are full of life, they are rife with it. It's just life that lives directly off other live; off decay and death, which are fully natural parts of the life-cycle.
Heck sometimes things like a rotting tree can support a greater abundance of life forms than when it was alive.



Heck look at Hounds of Nurgle; they are happy labradors of disease and pestilence. They don't want to fight, they just want to run over the battlefield and give you a big (bone crushing) hug and lick you with a thick long slobbery tongue of disease.
It's not their fault that your body withers, breaks nad dies from the onslaught of new life that's bursting all over you and eating you up on every level.






In some ways Nurgle is the least "selfish" of the gods. Most of the others focus on the self attaining greatness through extreme personal achievement or desire. Nurgle you achieve it in some ways through sacrifice; through giving part of yourself to the greater creation and propagation of life.

A Blog in Miniature

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Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Simple. Immortality.

The thing about 40k is that no one person can grasp the fullness of it.

My 95th Praetorian Rifles.

SW Successors

Dwarfs
 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






That doesn't make any sense. If you align yourself with any of the Pantheon and then achieve power you can become an immortal Daemon Prince. Nurglites aren't any more immortal than Slanneshi or Tzeentchian adherents.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Gert wrote:
That doesn't make any sense. If you align yourself with any of the Pantheon and then achieve power you can become an immortal Daemon Prince. Nurglites aren't any more immortal than Slanneshi or Tzeentchian adherents.

Most marines don't become princes though. Whereas every single plague marine appears to be immortal (maybe?). If you're say, a chapter that's on its last legs and staring down extinction (Scythes of the Emperor style), I could see promises of immortality maybe being persuasive.

Although I get the impression that nurgle marines generally get corrupted by generic brand Chaos madness first and then just kind of arbitrarily end up talking about how great diseases are. That is, I don't get the impression that most Nurgle-aligned marines actually have compelling, incremental journeys into Nurgleness.


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






 Wyldhunt wrote:
Most marines don't become princes though. Whereas every single plague marine appears to be immortal (maybe?). If you're say, a chapter that's on its last legs and staring down extinction (Scythes of the Emperor style), I could see promises of immortality maybe being persuasive.

Space Marines are already functionally immortal. They don't age like humans and only don't live forever because they are shock troops that fight in the harshest warzones known to mankind.
Pledging to Nurgle doesn't give immortality, it gives greater resistance to pain and damage. It is a side effect that those who pledge to Nurgle might survive more battles but that's not immortality. That Khorne and Slaanesh worshippers tend to live fast and die young doesn't mean being a Plague Marine makes an Astartes immortal. Technically Rubricae are immortal but that's because they are no longer mortal beings, just remnants of souls inhabiting suits of armour.

Although I get the impression that nurgle marines generally get corrupted by generic brand Chaos madness first and then just kind of arbitrarily end up talking about how great diseases are. That is, I don't get the impression that most Nurgle-aligned marines actually have compelling, incremental journeys into Nurgleness.

The process is often slower than those who fall to the other three Gods purely because of the nature of Nurgle. Like with the Grey Death, falling to true Nurglite service is a slow burn of despair and suffering until desperation forces you into the Grandfather's loving embrace.
The fact this process takes so long balances out with the other Gods whose followers blaze a trail and die often (Khorne and Slaanesh) or end up using sorcery to extend their lifespans to pseudo immortality (Tzeentch). The Death Guard and Thousand Sons contain more original members of their Legions purely because they don't run headfirst into every fight they can find.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




A marines life is like a clenched fist not bad for a short time and usefull for clubbing someone. Regement ed and exhausting. You have your battle brothers but they are just that you don't really hang out much outside of training and combate, every one respects you but no one really cares if you live or die especially if you are not a named character.

Papa nurgle cares, papa nurgle will slow everything down and alow you to relax for once in your life wich may now last forever. Papa nurgle will give you freinds like little lords and make you far more durable, papa nurgle will take away the pain and alow you to just be, to watch and to experamint. Papa nurgle askes so little of you and alows you to persue your own interests after all you spread his plagues even when you go about your own business. Let all the rigid unbending doctarins fall away, take your time frolicking in the most fecund garden in existence. Just be you, he dosent care if you comb your hair he loves you, he dosent care if your over weight, he loves you, he dosent care if you clothes aren't clean he loves you.
Nurgle is love, Nurgle is life. It's time to take yours back.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2023/05/24 21:25:09


 
   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





If you take a look at the state of the 40K galaxy it's hard to NOT fall to Nurgle. The whole Imperium is in constant decline for 10000 years, there's no hope, only apathy. There's no change, every battle won by the imperium is meaningless because in the end they're no better than their enemies and the thing is just going down anyway. Life is full of suffering for 99.9 % of the population. There is only war.
So what if I told you there was a way to not suffer?
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut






Sydney

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
If you take a look at the state of the 40K galaxy it's hard to NOT fall to Nurgle. The whole Imperium is in constant decline for 10000 years, there's no hope, only apathy. There's no change, every battle won by the imperium is meaningless because in the end they're no better than their enemies and the thing is just going down anyway. Life is full of suffering for 99.9 % of the population. There is only war.
So what if I told you there was a way to not suffer?

That's all of chaos really. What if I told you there was a way to let loose your wrath on the galaxy you hate so much / be the 0.1% pulling the strings instead of the 99.9% suffering the consequences / live the fulfilling life you always secretly wished for instead of the miserable life you're stuck with?

   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






Ottawa, ON

I think there's also a sick pleasure seeing other people suffer worse than yourself. Like you're somehow better for taking on more sickness and not breaking. Like a gross way of showing off scars. To knowing that you'll be able to endure longer than everyone around you and all you have to do is sit back and wait.

Ask yourself: have you rated a gallery image today? 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

I really cannot suggest strongly enough that the Liber chaotica books are a must for this kind of question.
   
Made in us
Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne




Noctis Labyrinthus

 Gert wrote:

Space Marines are already functionally immortal. They don't age like humans and only don't live forever because they are shock troops that fight in the harshest warzones known to mankind.


This is actually not true. Haathor Maat, captain of the Thousand Sons, actually muses to himself about the fact that, due to being the premier biomancer among the Thousand Sons, he knows with absolute certainty that Astartes are not, in fact, immortal. He can see and feel the decay in his and others' cells from the inexorable burden of time and it frightens him. Not so much the thought of dying, as an Astartes he faces death with every campaign, but the idea of him eventually growing so frail and weak that he will have nothing left to do but wait for death.

The lore also states that the Blood Angels can be particularly long-lived for Marines and Dante is old even among them. They do age.
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Hence why I said "functionally".
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





The Shire(s)

We know Marines technically age from various sources- for example, Dantioch was greatly aged due to wars with the Hrud, Sigismund was feeling the effects of age when he fought Abaddon at the youthful age of ~1000 years old.

However, still being one of the greatest Astartes warriors alive at the age of ~1000 strongly suggests that Space Marine aging typically happens on a timeframe irrelevant to the vast majority of Astartes and probably takes several millennia (outside the Warp) to become infirm. Geneseed quality could affect this of course.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in us
Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne




Noctis Labyrinthus

 Gert wrote:
Hence why I said "functionally".
You know, it's okay to just acknowledge that you were wrong.
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






 Void__Dragon wrote:
You know, it's okay to just acknowledge that you were wrong.

Cool but I'm not though.
Nobody knows the upward age limit for Astartes and we know that even those who constantly fight can live to a thousand years old. Its something that is brought up by Loken in the first Heresy novel IIRC that many Astartes are fearful of what comes after the Crusade as they had no known lifespan and were little more than living weapons. They didn't know how they could transition to peacetime when that peacetime could last thousands of years.
Are you just being picky because I used "functionally"? Would you prefer "nigh" or "essentially"?
When I said that Astartes were "functionally" immortal, that wasn't me saying they never age or suffer the effects of old age but rather that in terms of human lifespans, even those who extend theirs within the Imperium, they are essentially immortal. Hell, Marines even refer to non-Astartes as "mortals" all the time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/31 18:26:06


 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





The Shire(s)

I did always find the reference to Blood Angels being especially long-lived as odd. It suggests some Chapters are not. Obviously all Marines have high rates of combat loss over time, but I don't think that reference is suggesting Blood Angels are just especially good at not dying in combat when a notable percentage become rage-filled suicide weapons before battle.

Space Wolves also seem to have some very old members- Logan Grimnar is over 700 and Ulrik older still, although Ulrik has noted his age is affecting his combat strength now.

My suspicion is that Chapters with poor quality geneseed will age much quicker and have fewer ancient veterans due to a greater degrading effect of age (so their veterans become more likely to die over time due to loss of fitness). Chapters with good quality geneseed are likely to be aging at extremely slow rates. We know that many Chapters care for their geneseed in very suboptimal ways due to various factors, such as unhelpful rituals, loss of knowledge, or insufficient equipment, and this is known to degrade geneseed.

Sigismund is notable as he is an original Terran Marine from the end of the Unification Wars. His geneseed was essentially brand new and top quality. Imperial Fists by the 41st millennium may age quicker, although likely still at an extremely slow rate.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/31 21:55:26


 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Yeah, Gert's point is valid here, Void_Dragon. While it's not impossible for marines to dread old age, almost none of them ever actually reach old age.

Dante is remarkable for being as old as he is, and he's got one of the best statlines in his faction.

Marines have the potential to develop phobias about old age, I guess, but the chances of any of them living to be Dante's age are pretty remote. It's a bit like hearing a teenager worry about old age. Valid fears, bro, but that's not going to impact you for a while yet. It's right up there with marines stressing about dying of starvation or disease. It's not entirely off the table, but you've got a lot of more pressing concerns.

FWIW, there's that one Salamander in the Salamanders Omnibus who lives to be some thousands of years old and essentially dies of old age. I want to say he was like, 6,000 years old?


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in ca
Deadshot Weapon Moderati




Nurgle just wants to see your pretty smile.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






 Gert wrote:
 Void__Dragon wrote:
You know, it's okay to just acknowledge that you were wrong.

Cool but I'm not though.
Nobody knows the upward age limit for Astartes and we know that even those who constantly fight can live to a thousand years old. Its something that is brought up by Loken in the first Heresy novel IIRC that many Astartes are fearful of what comes after the Crusade as they had no known lifespan and were little more than living weapons. They didn't know how they could transition to peacetime when that peacetime could last thousands of years.
Are you just being picky because I used "functionally"? Would you prefer "nigh" or "essentially"?
When I said that Astartes were "functionally" immortal, that wasn't me saying they never age or suffer the effects of old age but rather that in terms of human lifespans, even those who extend theirs within the Imperium, they are essentially immortal. Hell, Marines even refer to non-Astartes as "mortals" all the time.


As others have said? Whilst I do not claim perfect knowledge of the background? I’m fairly well read, and have never heard of an Astartes dying of old age.

Sure, few Astartes, given their bloody profession, will live all that long. Comes with the territory. But Dante is..1,100ish years old.

Stop and compare that to baseline human life expectancy. I’ll do a cheeky Google and look for the median human life expectancy as we are right now.

72.98 years, apparently. And I say apparently as I do not present myself as anything other than an idiot who knows how to Google, and don’t kid myself im right as a result? Dante, who still isn’t even remotely dead. Or decrepit. Has lived 803 human lifetimes.

At best, we might describe his physical age as late 30’s. Slowing down a wee bit, noticeably mostly to himself. But still perfectly capable of putting the nearest big bad’s head through the nearest wall. Which is quite something,

But let’s dial it back to my earlier point…….

Can anyone point us as a collective to a single, Codex or Black Library source, where an Astartes dies of old age, and not through violence?

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 Gert wrote:
 Void__Dragon wrote:
You know, it's okay to just acknowledge that you were wrong.

Cool but I'm not though.
Nobody knows the upward age limit for Astartes and we know that even those who constantly fight can live to a thousand years old. Its something that is brought up by Loken in the first Heresy novel IIRC that many Astartes are fearful of what comes after the Crusade as they had no known lifespan and were little more than living weapons. They didn't know how they could transition to peacetime when that peacetime could last thousands of years.
Are you just being picky because I used "functionally"? Would you prefer "nigh" or "essentially"?
When I said that Astartes were "functionally" immortal, that wasn't me saying they never age or suffer the effects of old age but rather that in terms of human lifespans, even those who extend theirs within the Imperium, they are essentially immortal. Hell, Marines even refer to non-Astartes as "mortals" all the time.


As others have said? Whilst I do not claim perfect knowledge of the background? I’m fairly well read, and have never heard of an Astartes dying of old age.

Sure, few Astartes, given their bloody profession, will live all that long. Comes with the territory. But Dante is..1,100ish years old.

Stop and compare that to baseline human life expectancy. I’ll do a cheeky Google and look for the median human life expectancy as we are right now.

72.98 years, apparently. And I say apparently as I do not present myself as anything other than an idiot who knows how to Google, and don’t kid myself im right as a result? Dante, who still isn’t even remotely dead. Or decrepit. Has lived 803 human lifetimes.

At best, we might describe his physical age as late 30’s. Slowing down a wee bit, noticeably mostly to himself. But still perfectly capable of putting the nearest big bad’s head through the nearest wall. Which is quite something,

But let’s dial it back to my earlier point…….

Can anyone point us as a collective to a single, Codex or Black Library source, where an Astartes dies of old age, and not through violence?

As I mentioned above, I *think* there's a bit in the Salamanders Omnibus where a Salamander dies of old age. I don't recall if there was some sort of injury involved. I'm pretty sure he just remained on guard duty while some locals brought him food for a few millenia and then finally croaked when the protagonist finds him.

EDIT: Also, don't forget about Bjorn. I know he's in a dreadnaught, but apparently whatever machinery is in that sarcophagus is sufficient to keep him going for 10,000 years. Unless stasis fields are involved when you put the dreadnaughts back to sleep?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/01 19:56:55



ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 Gert wrote:
 Void__Dragon wrote:
You know, it's okay to just acknowledge that you were wrong.

Cool but I'm not though.
Nobody knows the upward age limit for Astartes and we know that even those who constantly fight can live to a thousand years old. Its something that is brought up by Loken in the first Heresy novel IIRC that many Astartes are fearful of what comes after the Crusade as they had no known lifespan and were little more than living weapons. They didn't know how they could transition to peacetime when that peacetime could last thousands of years.
Are you just being picky because I used "functionally"? Would you prefer "nigh" or "essentially"?
When I said that Astartes were "functionally" immortal, that wasn't me saying they never age or suffer the effects of old age but rather that in terms of human lifespans, even those who extend theirs within the Imperium, they are essentially immortal. Hell, Marines even refer to non-Astartes as "mortals" all the time.


As others have said? Whilst I do not claim perfect knowledge of the background? I’m fairly well read, and have never heard of an Astartes dying of old age.

Sure, few Astartes, given their bloody profession, will live all that long. Comes with the territory. But Dante is..1,100ish years old.

Stop and compare that to baseline human life expectancy. I’ll do a cheeky Google and look for the median human life expectancy as we are right now.

72.98 years, apparently. And I say apparently as I do not present myself as anything other than an idiot who knows how to Google, and don’t kid myself im right as a result? Dante, who still isn’t even remotely dead. Or decrepit. Has lived 803 human lifetimes.

At best, we might describe his physical age as late 30’s. Slowing down a wee bit, noticeably mostly to himself. But still perfectly capable of putting the nearest big bad’s head through the nearest wall. Which is quite something,

But let’s dial it back to my earlier point…….

Can anyone point us as a collective to a single, Codex or Black Library source, where an Astartes dies of old age, and not through violence?


Current human life expectancy is fairly irrelevant when even baseline humans can live for centuries in the Imperium.

E.g. Eisenhorn who’s still kicking around when his career started in the 700s.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

In the 40K setting I'd say the big difference is that Marines can live a very long time as a marine without further augmentation to prolong their life.

Mechanicus can live a long time, but go through extensive and constant body modification to do so.
Regular humans can also live very long lives if they are rich enough and on the right worlds to have access to the tech (or can travel for it); but they require regular treatments to keep up. It also appears to degrade slowly over time, requiring more expensive and complex treatment (at least that's the impression I get).



Granted marines undergo extensive modification as well. However I think the difference is that once they are a Marine, its done. No top-ups, no extra enhancements or anything. The only reason they likely need any medical aid is because they are weapons and used in war constantly and thus take injuries of body and mind





Also don't forget Eisenhorn is ex-Inquisition. The vast majority of humanity don't have the connections, money or such to prolong their lives. Heck go to a Hive World and the vast majority won't even likely live as long as we do today

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/01 21:01:05


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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Lord Zarhov wrote: Current human life expectancy is fairly irrelevant when even baseline humans can live for centuries in the Imperium.

E.g. Eisenhorn who’s still kicking around when his career started in the 700s.


Sorry my dude, but I must politely yank that cherry from beyond your grasp.

We know Rejuvenating treatments exist within the lore. And it’s so deliciously vaguely described, we don’t know what it involves, or how reliable it is. About the only thing we do know it’s either so expensive or semi-forbidden (maybe both!) that it’s not there for every mere pleb.

But Dante? We know he’s at least 1,100 years old. And, unless someone can point me to a reliable, non-fan-fiction source? Has never had Rejuvanaut treatment.

   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






 Gert wrote:

Space Marines are already functionally immortal.
Space Marines cannot be functionally immortal if Blood Angels still have the distinction of being long lived.

I don't know what the current lore is on it, but by the older lore, immortal they are not.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





People seem to be either skimming over, willfully ignoring or misunderstanding the "functionally" part of "functionally immortal"

Unless anyone can actually quote a source that says a space marine has died of old age, then yes, they are functionally immortal. They still suffer some effects of aging over time but they always die to external factors (combat, disease) rather than the aging itself. Some chapters age slower than others, like the Blood Angels

Brother Gravius, from the novel Salamander, was present on Istvaan V and survived through to M41, making him 10,000+ years old and he survived without the aid of a Dreadnought stasis casket or any external aid. Yes, he's described as ancient and decrepit, possibly insane, but still alive. When he finally died it was a mercy kill from an apothecary, so even after ten thousand years we have an example of an ordinary Space Marine living without external intervention for ten millennia. He's nowhere near combat-ready, and would likely have died long ago if he'd stayed in action, but once you remove any external factors, he's immortal.


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Charax absolutely nailed it.
 
   
 
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