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More likely new GW Match Play Game Designer is embarrassed by the lack of foresight of janky, meta altering shifts in play their new rules create.

GW business as usual.

 Gert wrote:
Considering how quickly 40k players seem to break new rules or army books, I seriously doubt that. I mean it took what all of 12 hours for people to find the most utterly busted 10th combos from the second the Index cards dropped?

Maybe, but remember GW's inventory problems and how often top-tier units go out of stock. I bet you'd be pretty frustrated losing to a GW employee who had advance knowledge, bought three copies of the unit that was going to be overpowered, and sent them off for commission painting to be ready for a tournament a week after the codex release while you're going to be looking at an out of stock page for the next few months until GW nerfs the unit.

And with regard to keeping one army in a top tier, because they prefer it, that's going to get caught pretty damn quickly.

But would it really? We already have credible theories that certain GW employees have their pet factions and AFAIK Phil Kelly hasn't been fired yet.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:
Maybe, but remember GW's inventory problems and how often top-tier units go out of stock. I bet you'd be pretty frustrated losing to a GW employee who had advance knowledge, bought three copies of the unit that was going to be overpowered, and sent them off for commission painting to be ready for a tournament a week after the codex release while you're going to be looking at an out of stock page for the next few months until GW nerfs the unit.

I'd be more frustrated losing to a flavour-of-the-month jerk who did the bare minimum for painting like we saw when Drukhari and Harlequins were busted. But also no generally I don't get annoyed when I see things that are good in-game and know they are out of stock on the webstore because that would be me assuming the worst about someone, which isn't fair to them. I also don't judge people for getting commission painters to do their stuff. Not everyone has the time or ability to paint to the standards they are happy with, heck me and a friend have done it for a few people in our group before.

What I'm interested to know is, how do you know the people you're playing against work for the 40k rules team? They're hardly going to wear a big hat that says "I work for GW".
And as I said earlier, GW staff are heavily restricted from doing a lot of things already and the chances are any tournament this individual will play in needs to be either associated with GW (so the big ones like LVO or Adepticon) and not have any form of cash prize which according to my knowledge, isn't a big deal anyway.

But would it really? We already have credible theories that certain GW employees have their pet factions and AFAIK Phil Kelly hasn't been fired yet.

And which army would that be? Cos I played the Ork Codex he wrote for a really long time and it was as far from broken as you could be.

having been part of a club where some players were dubbed "three colours maximum" and one tried to argue the base being black was the third colour I know the sort of players you mean

that said the Painting Phase has had a recent one with Peachy noting there have been issues with codexes written by fans of a faction at GW being a little bit too much

 Gert wrote:
But also no generally I don't get annoyed when I see things that are good in-game and know they are out of stock on the webstore because that would be me assuming the worst about someone, which isn't fair to them. I also don't judge people for getting commission painters to do their stuff. Not everyone has the time or ability to paint to the standards they are happy with, heck me and a friend have done it for a few people in our group before.

I'm not saying that commission painting is bad, the issue here is unfair access. The GW employee knows in advance to send it off to the commission painter to have it ready for the first post-release event while a normal player has to wait for the rules to be revealed and then try to get into the commission queue (if GW doesn't run out of stock first). And because the normal player has to wait until the rules are released to start the process they may not have their stuff finished in time to use it before the inevitable nerfs hit and something else (which the GW employee is already prepared for) becomes the new meta pick.

What I'm interested to know is, how do you know the people you're playing against work for the 40k rules team?

The same way we know other people work for GW? We know that the guy who used to run the NOVA Open is now working for GW and he even uses his real name while interacting with the community on behalf of GW. And even if we don't know it there's still a fairness issue and there needs to be a public policy like WOTC has where employees are not permitted in anything but the most casual of events.

And which army would that be?

Eldar. It's well known that Eldar are his pet army, both in rules and in his books. It's part of why his Tau novels are so painfully bad, he doesn't understand any non-Eldar faction and consistently writes grimderp nonsense for them.

And oh look, right on schedule a new edition launches with Eldar being egregiously overpowered across the entire faction.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:


And oh look, right on schedule a new edition launches with Eldar being egregiously overpowered across the entire faction.

You know Phil Kelly hasn't worked on 40k for several years right? He's worked on AoS, ever since they split the studio in to separate teams.

You seem to be being a little bit paranoid, to be honest.

You know how company employees can't enter competitions run by the company?

It might be a bit like that for someone writing the rules for tournaments that they then participate in.

I don't know what would be expected for the UK, but the salary does seem low, really low. More like an intern's wage.

pgmason wrote:
You know Phil Kelly hasn't worked on 40k for several years right? He's worked on AoS, ever since they split the studio in to separate teams.

You seem to be being a little bit paranoid, to be honest.

If you think he hasn't been at least unofficially keeping an eye on things and giving feedback about his pet faction I have a bridge to sell you.

£20-21k in the UK is about average for an entry level position in an office environment if that is the pay being offered for this role.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Considering how quickly 40k players seem to break new rules or army books, I seriously doubt that. I mean it took what all of 12 hours for people to find the most utterly busted 10th combos from the second the Index cards dropped?

Maybe, but remember GW's inventory problems and how often top-tier units go out of stock. I bet you'd be pretty frustrated losing to a GW employee who had advance knowledge, bought three copies of the unit that was going to be overpowered, and sent them off for commission painting to be ready for a tournament a week after the codex release while you're going to be looking at an out of stock page for the next few months until GW nerfs the unit.

And with regard to keeping one army in a top tier, because they prefer it, that's going to get caught pretty damn quickly.

But would it really? We already have credible theories that certain GW employees have their pet factions and AFAIK Phil Kelly hasn't been fired yet.

Stuff like this is why this is a gak position. People are going to absolutely hate you. Even if you somehow actually did manage to make a perfectly balanced game (impossible), people would still claim you have favorite armies and armies you hate. It sounds like GW wants this person to be public too, going around socializing in tourneys, so you get to meet insufferable neckbeards who will complain to your face as well.

 Adeptekon wrote:
I don't know what would be expected for the UK, but the salary does seem low, really low. More like an intern's wage.

The UK doesn't really have much of an intern culture- we get graduate schemes at large companies, but those and entry level professional office roles are similar in pay.

deano2099 wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
I don't know what would be expected for the UK, but the salary does seem low, really low. More like an intern's wage.

The UK doesn't really have much of an intern culture- we get graduate schemes at large companies, but those and entry level professional office roles are similar in pay.

Yup, interns not really a thing. You either have an apprentice who is a paid for educate on the job type or junior who is someone who lacks experience but is theoretically capable/qualified.

 Gert wrote:
£20-21k in the UK is about average for an entry level position in an office environment if that is the pay being offered for this role.

UK minimum wage for full time (40hrs per week) work is £21,673.60 pa. (£10.42 per hour). Anyone in full time work earning £20-£21k is being illegally underpaid.

Aash wrote:

 Gert wrote:
£20-21k in the UK is about average for an entry level position in an office environment if that is the pay being offered for this role.

UK minimum wage for full time (40hrs per week) work is £21,673.60 pa. (£10.42 per hour). Anyone in full time work earning £20-£21k is being illegally underpaid.

Most office jobs are 37.5 hours in my experience.

35 hours for me.

Dudeface wrote:

Aash wrote:

 Gert wrote:
£20-21k in the UK is about average for an entry level position in an office environment if that is the pay being offered for this role.

UK minimum wage for full time (40hrs per week) work is £21,673.60 pa. (£10.42 per hour). Anyone in full time work earning £20-£21k is being illegally underpaid.

Most office jobs are 37.5 hours in my experience.

That’s not been my experience since the early 2000s. But I accept that it may be the case. That being said, 37.5 hours a week would be an annual salary of £20,319. My experience is that most office jobs (even at entry level) pay more than minimum wage. I still hold that a full time salary of £20-£21k is unusually low for an office job.

Edit- having looked it up, the ONS says average full time hours in the UK is 36.6 hours per week, so I stand corrected.

Aash wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Aash wrote:

 Gert wrote:
£20-21k in the UK is about average for an entry level position in an office environment if that is the pay being offered for this role.

UK minimum wage for full time (40hrs per week) work is £21,673.60 pa. (£10.42 per hour). Anyone in full time work earning £20-£21k is being illegally underpaid.

Most office jobs are 37.5 hours in my experience.

That’s not been my experience since the early 2000s. But I accept that it may be the case. That being said, 37.5 hours a week would be an annual salary of £20,319. My experience is that most office jobs (even at entry level) pay more than minimum wage. I still hold that a full time salary of £20-£21k is unusually low for an office job.

Edit- having looked it up, the ONS says average full time hours in the UK is 36.6 hours per week, so I stand corrected.

Are you in London by any chance? My entirely anecdotal experience is most London office work is 40 hours (but also higher paid due to London weighting) - outside of London 35 or 37.5 is more common. (35 is the minimum to be considered "full time" employment legally)

Ignore this.

deano2099 wrote:

Aash wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Aash wrote:

 Gert wrote:
£20-21k in the UK is about average for an entry level position in an office environment if that is the pay being offered for this role.

UK minimum wage for full time (40hrs per week) work is £21,673.60 pa. (£10.42 per hour). Anyone in full time work earning £20-£21k is being illegally underpaid.

Most office jobs are 37.5 hours in my experience.

That’s not been my experience since the early 2000s. But I accept that it may be the case. That being said, 37.5 hours a week would be an annual salary of £20,319. My experience is that most office jobs (even at entry level) pay more than minimum wage. I still hold that a full time salary of £20-£21k is unusually low for an office job.

Edit- having looked it up, the ONS says average full time hours in the UK is 36.6 hours per week, so I stand corrected.

Are you in London by any chance? My entirely anecdotal experience is most London office work is 40 hours (but also higher paid due to London weighting) - outside of London 35 or 37.5 is more common. (35 is the minimum to be considered "full time" employment legally)

I’ve lived and worked all over the UK, but currently in the South East and London area.

Gert wrote:Remember to tack on holiday allowance as well. 52 weeks can turn into 48 real quick with them.

Not sure I follow your meaning? Annual leave is paid leave, so annual salary with 4 weeks annual leave would still work out to the annual salary divided by 52 when calculating weekly salary, and then divided by weekly hours for hourly pay. (Alternatively divide by 12 for monthly salary; you wouldn’t divide by 11 to work out monthly salary if you get a month of annual leave).

Totally wasn't thinking there. Brain has been turned to mush with all the heat recently.

I find it mildly amusing that people are worried that GW employees with 'in the know' information are going to be running out to buy up the most broken units to win a tournament which would achieve what exactly?

I know a lot of people put a hell of a lot of weight in tournament winners and the like, but what does it actually achieve these people? Not many branch out and build a following that allows them to do their hobby full time.... So whoop, Auspex Tactics may name drop you in a video, enjoy eating the entry fee and the model and commission painting fee for your 5 minutes of clout... At which point GW will get wind of it and they'd be promptly banned from playing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Additionally, just because a person at GW isn't the writer of a codex, or listed as producing it, doesn't mean they don't have a hand in it, proof reading, game testing etc, there will be plenty of people who can still influence, and if they are well known enough, their say will get more mileage.

It is not a coincidence that Eldar are broken at some point in nearly every edition. Not blaming this on Phil Kelly mind, but they are evidently a fair few peoples pet faction.

The minimum wage is up 33% or so since 2018-19. (£7.83->£10.42) This is why I think £20-22k wasn't a bad starting salary just a few years ago, but would seem a bit light today.

I can see why a GW employee might be banned from a tournament if there was money on the line. If its just glory then I'm not entirely sure why it would matter. If various rules writers at GW had to see what they had wrought they might be more fair minded.

Most tournaments seem to avoid cash prizes probably because it opens them up to more regulation or problems. At best someone would get a box of models or gear associated with a sponsor.
Oh and a big shiny trophy.

 Illumini wrote:
Stuff like this is why this is a gak position. People are going to absolutely hate you. Even if you somehow actually did manage to make a perfectly balanced game (impossible), people would still claim you have favorite armies and armies you hate. It sounds like GW wants this person to be public too, going around socializing in tourneys, so you get to meet insufferable neckbeards who will complain to your face as well.

Yep, and for less salary than the average burger flipper in the US. I'm sure someone will be enough of a fanboy to take the deal just to be part of GW but GW sure isn't trying very hard.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

 Illumini wrote:
Stuff like this is why this is a gak position. People are going to absolutely hate you. Even if you somehow actually did manage to make a perfectly balanced game (impossible), people would still claim you have favorite armies and armies you hate. It sounds like GW wants this person to be public too, going around socializing in tourneys, so you get to meet insufferable neckbeards who will complain to your face as well.

Yep, and for less salary than the average burger flipper in the US. I'm sure someone will be enough of a fanboy to take the deal just to be part of GW but GW sure isn't trying very hard.

Difficult to compare jobs in different countries - do many Americans get a month's paid holiday a year? Do they get their taxes done for them by the government. Free healthcare etc....

Plus if you are into Warhammer then you get huge reductions on product - which again does have a value.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

 Illumini wrote:
Stuff like this is why this is a gak position. People are going to absolutely hate you. Even if you somehow actually did manage to make a perfectly balanced game (impossible), people would still claim you have favorite armies and armies you hate. It sounds like GW wants this person to be public too, going around socializing in tourneys, so you get to meet insufferable neckbeards who will complain to your face as well.

Yep, and for less salary than the average burger flipper in the US. I'm sure someone will be enough of a fanboy to take the deal just to be part of GW but GW sure isn't trying very hard.

Difficult to compare jobs in different countries - do many Americans get a month's paid holiday a year? Do they get their taxes done for them by the government. Free healthcare etc....

Plus if you are into Warhammer then you get huge reductions on product - which again does have a value.

Quick Google of the cost of living difference between Nottingham and Grapevine (given that's the warhammer cafe location, nearest proxy I could think of:

You would need around 4,934.7£ (6,321.5$) in Dallas, TX to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 3,500.0£ in Nottingham (assuming you rent in both cities). This calculation uses our Cost of Living Plus Rent Index to compare the cost of living and assume net earnings (after income tax).

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&city1=Nottingham&country2=United+States&city2=Dallas%2C+TX

So yes, can't really make fair comparisons, especially given not having to deal with the guns, abortion law changes and all that other fun stuff Americans seem to need to handle.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Difficult to compare jobs in different countries - do many Americans get a month's paid holiday a year? Do they get their taxes done for them by the government. Free healthcare etc....

Sure, it's not exactly comparable. A burger flipper isn't getting all of that but a burger flipper is also making half as much as even an entry-level engineer/software developer/etc. And in those jobs you do get a month of paid time off, and you can easily pay for the healthcare and tax paperwork while still having a lot of money left over.

The point, whether or not the numbers are exactly comparable, is that the comparison shouldn't be possible at all. A professional job as a public representative of a company with a high level of specific skills and experience should be paying way more than a job that will take any warm body off the street. GW is massively underpaying and limiting themselves to hardcore fanboys who will take a low paying job just to get to be part of GW, not the best talent for the job.

Plus if you are into Warhammer then you get huge reductions on product - which again does have a value.

Not much value. How much do you really think you're going to get out of it? Can you even cross the thousand dollar per year mark in discount value without accumulating a giant pile of shame that is all wasted money? I doubt your value from the discount comes anywhere near the salary gap.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

Not much value. How much do you really think you're going to get out of it? Can you even cross the thousand dollar per year mark in discount value without accumulating a giant pile of shame that is all wasted money? I doubt your value from the discount comes anywhere near the salary gap.

They offer a 50% discount on 'most' Citadel products afaik, it's not like in the olden days when employees bought models by weight... also, afaik they're pretty strict in going after re-selling employee discounted stuff, so no genius-level plans of getting richt by flogging stuff on ebay.

Yes but if you are someone who is going to buy that stuff anyway....well thats a BIG saving.