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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 07:05:01
Subject: Re:Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant
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GW needs to attract high-level talent and to do that they need to pay a six-figure salary, or base £75k... Many other sectors in the UK need to attract high level talent, and I would prefer those sectors to get that over toy soldiers.
Firstly, historically the conversion rate of GBP to USD has been anywhere from £1 = $2, to fairly close to even (more so in recent times since the US tanked the global economy in 2008). It's currently £1 = $1.30ish... Let's call it £1 = $1.50
So that $75k salary is now £50k.
Secondly, there are many many many sectors in the UK that generate considerably more money than GW, and comparable jobs are not in £50k per annum realms unless the person happens to be exceptional, in a senior/managing role of a team and a lot of the time based in London.
These jobs I'm specifically thinking of that are comparable in terms of skills, forecasting and ability to process and evaluate high amounts of inconsistent data to still come to meaningful, reliable and valid conclusions that can be implemented into a plan, sometimes on short term notice. These jobs are sport analysts, specifically in Football and working directly for clubs. If an analyst working for Manchester United - a club which generates the best part of double what GW do on a yearly basis are paying on average £35k for an analyst, GW aren't paying double that, and most likely far less because, well, GW, and they can.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ThePaintingOwl wrote: xttz wrote:"The UK needs to nationally pay better wages in order to improve Warhammer" is definitely a bold take.
More like " GW, a global company, should offer wages appropriate for their largest market so they can attract the best talent instead of the bottom of the barrel candidates who are desperate enough to take a lowball offer."
There largest market are middle aged women actually, and I guess middle ages women don't really care about game balance. Source of this is the podcast below.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/07/12 07:10:04
My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance
My Shroud of Vigilance Hobby update blog for me detailed updates and lore on the faction:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 07:30:55
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader
Bamberg / Erlangen
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Do you have the timestamp for that?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 07:41:48
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord
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So what you're saying is, they should be appealing to make lil timmys mum a game developer
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 08:00:56
Subject: Re:Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna
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endlesswaltz123 wrote:There largest market are middle aged women actually, and I guess middle ages women don't really care about game balance. Source of this is the podcast below.
You know perfectly well I was talking about their largest market geographically, not the technicality that parents buying stuff for their kids are the largest percentage of sales.
And $75k is bare minimum entry level salary for an engineering job, GW is looking at more of an equivalent to a mid-level or senior hire and that pushes well into six figures. Their offer may be competitive with low-paying UK jobs but by lowballing the US market they've voluntarily cut themselves off from their biggest candidate pool.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dudeface wrote:They maybe want to hire someone in order to develop those skills, sometimes investing in someone with the right mindset and base skills to train them up is worth more than just picking existing candidates who come with baggage and egos.
How has that worked so far? Sure seems to me like their process has been a pretty dismal failure, as here we are once again starting a new edition with egregious balance errors that even token playtesting should have caught.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/07/12 08:04:21
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 08:05:19
Subject: Re:Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Servoarm Flailing Magos
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ThePaintingOwl wrote: endlesswaltz123 wrote:There largest market are middle aged women actually, and I guess middle ages women don't really care about game balance. Source of this is the podcast below.
You know perfectly well I was talking about their largest market geographically, not the technicality that parents buying stuff for their kids are the largest percentage of sales.
GW seem to be dead-set on seeing themselves as a quaint british shop, which compounds their problem - their largest market by far is the US (roughly half of all revenues) followed by the EU (~ quarter), while the UK only makes up for about 85% of the remaining quarter. Their self-image has been detached from the reality of this for quite some time.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 08:16:46
Subject: Re:Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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endlesswaltz123 wrote:These jobs I'm specifically thinking of that are comparable in terms of skills, forecasting and ability to process and evaluate high amounts of inconsistent data to still come to meaningful, reliable and valid conclusions that can be implemented into a plan, sometimes on short term notice. These jobs are sport analysts, specifically in Football and working directly for clubs. If an analyst working for Manchester United - a club which generates the best part of double what GW do on a yearly basis are paying on average £35k for an analyst, GW aren't paying double that, and most likely far less because, well, GW, and they can.
Honestly there's a few people here reading " strong analytical and problem-solving skills" or " excellent communication and collaboration abilities" in the job advert and jumping to assume these skills are required on the same level as football clubs or banks, who use them to deal with multi-million pound transactions every day. They definitely won't be. In a position like this, phrases like these are just code for " can you use Excel" and " can you work in an office environment without actively causing HR issues". You'll find the same lines used in job adverts for entry-level accounts clerks or purchasing dept roles across the country.
It's quite likely that any data analysis done by this individual for things like evaluating tournament trends will only be slightly more complex than GW's current win rate metrics, and only used to make fancy graphs in WarCom articles with captions like:
"Our data shows that Redemptor dreadnoughts appeared in 55% of winning Space Marine tournament lists this month, therefore they get a +20pt increase"
This video is around 2 hours, but is definitely worth a watch if anyone wants to know how and why GW operates the way it does. In particular it clearly explains why they don't sell things like dropper bottles, airbrushes, and other products commonly requested by hobby veterans.
The guy spilling the beans did leave GW in 2016, so any details are largely from the Kirby era.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 08:16:52
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra
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The largest geographical market doesn't matter when the headquarters isn't there and never will be.
GW is a British company and its not going to offer US salaries when the economic circumstances in the country the company is based in are heavily divergent.
Just because basic wages are higher doesn't mean Americans are better than Brits.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 08:19:41
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna
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Gert wrote:The largest geographical market doesn't matter when the headquarters isn't there and never will be.
GW is a British company and its not going to offer US salaries when the economic circumstances in the country the company is based in are heavily divergent.
Just because basic wages are higher doesn't mean Americans are better than Brits.
GW is a global company with US operations and viewing themselves as a " UK company" is silly in the age of easy remote work. It's not 1980 anymore and it's time for GW to join the modern world.
And I never said that Americans are better because of higher wages, I said the US is GW's biggest market and has their biggest competitive scene. Ruling out that talent pool by offering a salary that is an absolute joke by non- UK standards is a serious mistake. Automatically Appended Next Post: xttz wrote:In a position like this, phrases like these are just code for " can you use Excel" and " can you work in an office environment without actively causing HR issues". You'll find the same lines used in job adverts for entry-level accounts clerks or purchasing dept roles across the country.
Correct, when talking about the kind of person GW expects to hire. I'm talking about the kind of person GW should hire if they want the job to be done properly. I'm well aware that GW will say "enthusiasm matters more than ability" and hire a yes man who will contribute little of value to quality game design but do a great job of telling management how right they are about everything.
It's quite likely that any data analysis done by this individual for things like evaluating tournament trends will only be slightly more complex than GW's current win rate metrics, and only used to make fancy graphs in WarCom articles with captions like:
"Our data shows that Redemptor dreadnoughts appeared in 55% of winning Space Marine tournament lists this month, therefore they get a +20pt increase"
And that is why GW continues to fail.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/07/12 08:22:32
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 08:26:22
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra
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GW is a company that sells internationally and operates a storage facility in the USA. It doesn't have offices in the USA or mainland Europe anymore so IMO that argument doesn't stand up.
And I'm sorry but "GW should pay more so Americans can get UK based jobs" is just funny. I'll be over here enjoying my free health care and not having to pay someone to file my taxes.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 08:29:47
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord
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ThePaintingOwl wrote: Gert wrote:The largest geographical market doesn't matter when the headquarters isn't there and never will be.
GW is a British company and its not going to offer US salaries when the economic circumstances in the country the company is based in are heavily divergent.
Just because basic wages are higher doesn't mean Americans are better than Brits.
GW is a global company with US operations and viewing themselves as a " UK company" is silly in the age of easy remote work. It's not 1980 anymore and it's time for GW to join the modern world.
And I never said that Americans are better because of higher wages, I said the US is GW's biggest market and has their biggest competitive scene. Ruling out that talent pool by offering a salary that is an absolute joke by non- UK standards is a serious mistake.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
xttz wrote:In a position like this, phrases like these are just code for " can you use Excel" and " can you work in an office environment without actively causing HR issues". You'll find the same lines used in job adverts for entry-level accounts clerks or purchasing dept roles across the country.
Correct, when talking about the kind of person GW expects to hire. I'm talking about the kind of person GW should hire if they want the job to be done properly. I'm well aware that GW will say "enthusiasm matters more than ability" and hire a yes man who will contribute little of value to quality game design but do a great job of telling management how right they are about everything.
It's quite likely that any data analysis done by this individual for things like evaluating tournament trends will only be slightly more complex than GW's current win rate metrics, and only used to make fancy graphs in WarCom articles with captions like:
"Our data shows that Redemptor dreadnoughts appeared in 55% of winning Space Marine tournament lists this month, therefore they get a +20pt increase"
And that is why GW continues to fail.
So how does someone in Nottingham find issues via token playtesting with someone in the US? This isn't appropriate for remote work in reality as you need a team in the same geographical location to conduct work with a physical product.
t the end of the day there is no need for global applicants, there's also nothing stopping global applicants applying and relocating. I kind of agree you are repeatedly pushing a "USA is obviously better, I'd be doing this job if it paid exactly what I want because I'm better than these scrubs" attitude. It might not be meant to come across that way, but it's how it's being received.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 08:32:13
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Dakka Veteran
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ThePaintingOwl wrote: Gert wrote:The largest geographical market doesn't matter when the headquarters isn't there and never will be.
GW is a British company and its not going to offer US salaries when the economic circumstances in the country the company is based in are heavily divergent.
Just because basic wages are higher doesn't mean Americans are better than Brits.
GW is a global company with US operations and viewing themselves as a " UK company" is silly in the age of easy remote work. It's not 1980 anymore and it's time for GW to join the modern world.
And I never said that Americans are better because of higher wages, I said the US is GW's biggest market and has their biggest competitive scene. Ruling out that talent pool by offering a salary that is an absolute joke by non- UK standards is a serious mistake.
Why? This isn't a massive company that need to recruit 100s of people to do a job with a very rare skill set. They need one person. I don't believe for a second that there's no-one in the UK labour pool capable of doing a brilliant job at this. What would be the benefit to them of hiring someone in the US when it would cost 3-4 times as much?
I don't disagree that if GW want to really improve their rules, they should be looking at offering more, maybe 40-50K for this position (not the 25-30 they probably are offering). But in the UK that'd easily hire someone very qualified for this sort of work. Why pay twice that (minimum, apparently) to hire someone from the US?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 08:33:52
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna
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Gert wrote:GW is a company that sells internationally and operates a storage facility in the USA. It doesn't have offices in the USA or mainland Europe anymore so IMO that argument doesn't stand up.
I understand that GW is stuck in the 1980s and operates inefficiently. The reality is they're a global company whose primary market is the US, the UK is a tertiary market and their stubborn insistence on treating it as their primary focus is a clear loss of value. They should be bringing more stuff over to the US, not doubling down on an obsolete relic.
And I'm sorry but "GW should pay more so Americans can get UK based jobs" is just funny. I'll be over here enjoying my free health care and not having to pay someone to file my taxes.
No, " GW should pay US salaries and operate a US office so they can get the best people for the job". Smart companies make themselves competitive in the deepest talent pool, companies like GW limit themselves and then wonder why somehow they never manage to get things right. Automatically Appended Next Post: deano2099 wrote:I don't believe for a second that there's no-one in the UK labour pool capable of doing a brilliant job at this.
Are you sure about this? Remember, "top 40k tournament player" is already setting a very small pool of candidates. If you follow competitive play you'll notice the same handful of people consistently at the top of the tournament standings and it's mostly because very few people are willing to spend the time and money to travel to multiple events, buy armies to keep up with the meta, spend time on practice games, etc. You're talking about a max of 100 people worldwide who meet that requirement, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's more like 10 people. And then from that incredibly small group you need to find someone with the math skills AND the PR skills to do the actual job properly. GW is looking for a unicorn candidate here and the best way to get that is to have a remote position offered anywhere in the world and a salary that is competitive in the market where GW's largest customer base lives.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/07/12 08:38:02
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 08:39:16
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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except they are based in Nottingham, and because they are based in Nottingham thats where the UK games developers cluster
would be a huge upheaval relocating stateside, likely a lot of critical staff wouldn't move and they would cripple themselves in the process, incur significant costs and likely wreak the company
they are not large enough to also have a stateside office and presumably prefer to have all the development team in one place
tl;dr what the job would pay in the US doesn't matter because the job isn't in the US
GW got where they are because of the curious nature of the UK market for their products using a "model" that likely would not work stateside
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 08:42:00
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna
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leopard wrote:they are not large enough to also have a stateside office and presumably prefer to have all the development team in one place
Offices are irrelevant in 2023, the vast majority of "office" jobs can be done remotely and the only value of the office is to commercial real estate landlords. GW is stuck in an obsolete business model here.
GW got where they are because of the curious nature of the UK market for their products using a "model" that likely would not work stateside
GW's financial numbers disagree. The US market is more than double the UK market in total revenue.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 08:44:25
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord
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ThePaintingOwl wrote:leopard wrote:they are not large enough to also have a stateside office and presumably prefer to have all the development team in one place
Offices are irrelevant in 2023, the vast majority of "office" jobs can be done remotely and the only value of the office is to commercial real estate landlords. GW is stuck in an obsolete business model here.
GW got where they are because of the curious nature of the UK market for their products using a "model" that likely would not work stateside
GW's financial numbers disagree. The US market is more than double the UK market in total revenue.
How are you playtesting remotely? You're ignoring that point conveniently.
Also, being quite frank and rude, nobody cares how much you love America, the vacancy is in the UK and would you believe it there's plenty of incompetent dimwits in the US as well they could hire just as easily.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 08:45:18
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Servoarm Flailing Magos
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ThePaintingOwl wrote:
And that is why GW continues to fail.
ThePaintingOwl wrote:
No, "GW should pay US salaries and operate a US office so they can get the best people for the job". Smart companies make themselves competitive in the deepest talent pool, companies like GW limit themselves and then wonder why somehow they never manage to get things right.
You'd need to employ a pretty non-standard metric of 'fail' and 'never get things right' to judge a company that is going from record profits to record profits year over year as 'failing' - one motivated by the wish to see them fail, in effect. Don't confuse hyper-critical forum people and the online complainosphere for the most important metric that matters at the end of the day: sales are the final arbiter of success or failure, and these seem largely fine to excellent. There are severe problems with thing in recent times, namely underserving of demand for boxed products, launch boxes etc. and the ongoing issues with scalpers and related activities, but then again these are only tangentially related to game design at best and might not be entirely undesired by GW corporate, as they stir the pot of FOMO-driven marketing. GW continues to rake in profits and expand without depending on outside funding, which is a big deal for a company that only deals in luxury hobby products in this economy.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/07/12 08:45:30
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 08:47:34
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord
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Tsagualsa wrote:ThePaintingOwl wrote:
And that is why GW continues to fail.
ThePaintingOwl wrote:
No, "GW should pay US salaries and operate a US office so they can get the best people for the job". Smart companies make themselves competitive in the deepest talent pool, companies like GW limit themselves and then wonder why somehow they never manage to get things right.
You'd need to employ a pretty non-standard metric of 'fail' and 'never get things right' to judge a company that is going from record profits to record profits year over year as 'failing' - one motivated by the wish to see them fail, in effect. Don't confuse hyper-critical forum people and the online complainosphere for the most important metric that matters at the end of the day: sales are the final arbiter of success or failure, and these seem largely fine to excellent. There are severe problems with thing in recent times, namely underserving of demand for boxed products, launch boxes etc. and the ongoing issues with scalpers and related activities, but then again these are only tangentially related to game design at best and might not be entirely undesired by GW corporate, as they stir the pot of FOMO-driven marketing. GW continues to rake in profits and expand without depending on outside funding, which is a big deal for a company that only deals in luxury hobby products in this economy.
I feel we're witnessing the Warhammer version of a MAGA hat currently.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 08:48:01
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna
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Tsagualsa wrote:You'd need to employ a pretty non-standard metric of 'fail' and 'never get things right' to judge a company that is going from record profits to record profits year over year as 'failing' - one motivated by the wish to see them fail, in effect.
GW is failing at game design, especially competitive game design as this thread is about, not at sales. They have very poor rules propped up by a critical mass effect established decades ago and strong lore/art components that drive sales despite the rule failures.
And "do they make a profit" is not the sole question that matters. If GW is making $500 million per year in profit it's a dismal failure if they could be making $1 billion instead. Automatically Appended Next Post: Dudeface wrote:I feel we're witnessing the Warhammer version of a MAGA hat currently.
Cool, breaking the politeness and no politics rules in one post!
I feel what we're really witnessing is the emotional attachment UK players have towards GW as a " UK company", where the idea that the UK market is no longer of central importance feels bad and "their" company needs to stay at home where it belongs instead of pursuing maximum profit. Automatically Appended Next Post: Dudeface wrote:How are you playtesting remotely? You're ignoring that point conveniently.
Virtual tabletops, and in-person playtesting groups with local players. Having GW employees spread out across different markets would improve playtesting as it would make it easier to get feedback from different local metas and different group personalities.
And remember, this is primarily a data analysis role, not a person who should be spending most of their time playing games.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/07/12 08:51:59
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 08:56:36
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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ThePaintingOwl wrote:leopard wrote:they are not large enough to also have a stateside office and presumably prefer to have all the development team in one place
Offices are irrelevant in 2023, the vast majority of "office" jobs can be done remotely and the only value of the office is to commercial real estate landlords. GW is stuck in an obsolete business model here.
GW got where they are because of the curious nature of the UK market for their products using a "model" that likely would not work stateside
GW's financial numbers disagree. The US market is more than double the UK market in total revenue.
This isn't an office job.
This is playtesting and whilst you can do that remotely its likely a LOT easier to do in person with tokens and a table and then advance up to actual models and physical terrain and features. You can't easily test your new line of sight rules on a computer simulation. Yes you can test some aspects of gameplay that way, but not the entire physical experience. For that you have ot shift into the physical real world.
I'm all for more remote working and remote options, but this is one of those cases where being there in person is likely far superior over working from home for many of the tasks. Or at the very least where you will need to turn up physically in person for several days of the week/month during phases of the testing process. So you could do a lot of the pencil pushing stat stuff at home and working remotely, but you'd still need to actually get to a table and physically test stuff.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 08:58:06
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord
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ThePaintingOwl wrote:Tsagualsa wrote:You'd need to employ a pretty non-standard metric of 'fail' and 'never get things right' to judge a company that is going from record profits to record profits year over year as 'failing' - one motivated by the wish to see them fail, in effect.
GW is failing at game design, especially competitive game design as this thread is about, not at sales. They have very poor rules propped up by a critical mass effect established decades ago and strong lore/art components that drive sales despite the rule failures.
And "do they make a profit" is not the sole question that matters. If GW is making $500 million per year in profit it's a dismal failure if they could be making $1 billion instead.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dudeface wrote:I feel we're witnessing the Warhammer version of a MAGA hat currently.
Cool, breaking the politeness and no politics rules in one post!
I feel what we're really witnessing is the emotional attachment UK players have towards GW as a " UK company", where the idea that the UK market is no longer of central importance feels bad and "their" company needs to stay at home where it belongs instead of pursuing maximum profit.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dudeface wrote:How are you playtesting remotely? You're ignoring that point conveniently.
Virtual tabletops, and in-person playtesting groups with local players. Having GW employees spread out across different markets would improve playtesting as it would make it easier to get feedback from different local metas and different group personalities.
And remember, this is primarily a data analysis role, not a person who should be spending most of their time playing games.
So you want them play testing unreleased rules and using insider information with Casual Dave down the FLGS in a professional capacity?
There is no emotional attachment to the UK for UK residents, most of us are pretty ready to self-depreciate about our home nation and know it's not perfect by any stretch. However your blind love for the US is ignoring the simple basic fact that they want 1 staff for a niche job at what is a niche company at the UK based headquarters and no amount of talking about US salaries is going to suddenly change that. You're also the one outright saying that for GW to continue to be successful they need to hire US staff and that US staffers would do better jobs. Remind me which of us is blinded by nationality at this point?
If the US was such a hotbed of amazingly skilled games developers, why would the largest and most successful wargames company not be or come form there? Or is it maybe that GW actually know the market and operate better than their competitors do currently, without needing an American office?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 09:06:49
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna
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Dudeface wrote:So you want them play testing unreleased rules and using insider information with Casual Dave down the FLGS in a professional capacity?
Why not? GW's obsessive secrecy about rules helps nobody and doing open beta testing would be even better.
Remind me which of us is blinded by nationality at this point?
It's not nationality, it's literally just market size. The UK market is less than half the size of the US market and GW should recruit where their deepest talent pool is. If you want the best talent are you more likely to find it in a pool of 500 people or in a pool of 1000 people?
If the US was such a hotbed of amazingly skilled games developers, why would the largest and most successful wargames company not be or come form there?
Because GW got a huge critical mass effect decades ago and dominates the niche market of miniatures games. But the US does have lots of game developers. Privateer Press is a US company. Fantasy Flight is a US company. WOTC (you may have heard of them) is a US company.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 09:12:38
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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I'm not sure if citing Privateer Press in this thread is doing anything to help your argument
Yes the US is a bigger market; however if GW were really smart they'd move to China. Even bigger market there AND cheaper labour AND reduced health and safety!
Companies don't just relocate to the biggest market on a whim. GW has a talent pool; all their staffing; their factories; land; investments; structures; taxing system and everything in the UK. They don't gain anything spending millions moving to the USA; losing many key staff who won't move; having to rebuild in the USA when they can just put stock on a ship and send it over.
Gw did actually try and setup a US based site but apparently it failed due to issues with them not being about to source local key skilled workers for using their machines and maintaining them. They lost money having to ship machines back and forth from the USA and UK when things went wrong; or staff and such.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 09:14:03
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Servoarm Flailing Magos
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ThePaintingOwl wrote:
Because GW got a huge critical mass effect decades ago and dominates the niche market of miniatures games. But the US does have lots of game developers. Privateer Press is a US company. Fantasy Flight is a US company. WOTC (you may have heard of them) is a US company.
Ah yes - Just tanked in months what they built up over decades, licensed properties all the way down and can't keep a game alive for two editions, and the platonic ideal of predatory business practices that would put some drug dealers to shame. Clearly vastly superior to bumbling old Father Brown GW
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 09:21:30
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna
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Overread wrote:Yes the US is a bigger market; however if GW were really smart they'd move to China. Even bigger market there AND cheaper labour AND reduced health and safety!
Bigger population, not a bigger share of GW's market. For whatever reason GW hasn't established any real success in China. The US, on the other hand, is more than double the UK share of GW's revenue and has the largest competitive play scene.
Gw did actually try and setup a US based site but apparently it failed due to issues with them not being about to source local key skilled workers for using their machines and maintaining them. They lost money having to ship machines back and forth from the USA and UK when things went wrong; or staff and such.
We're talking about game development not manufacturing. Recruiting for game design jobs in the US doesn't mean they have to move their factory operations over here.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 09:22:52
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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ThePaintingOwl wrote:
And "do they make a profit" is not the sole question that matters. If GW is making $500 million per year in profit it's a dismal failure if they could be making $1 billion instead.
Please show your working for this claim, to the nearest two decimal places.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 09:22:59
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna
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Tsagualsa wrote:Ah yes - Just tanked in months what they built up over decades, licensed properties all the way down and can't keep a game alive for two editions, and the platonic ideal of predatory business practices that would put some drug dealers to shame. Clearly vastly superior to bumbling old Father Brown GW 
You can't have it both ways. If you're going to insist that GW should be credited as a success for their profit numbers despite their obvious competitive design failures then the same applies to WOTC, they're a success that blows away anything GW is doing no matter how predatory their business model is. They're making giant piles of money and they dominate both the RPG and CCG markets. Automatically Appended Next Post: xttz wrote:Please show your working for this claim, to the nearest two decimal places.
What claim? That making less profit than you could is a failure? That's like asking to prove that water is wet.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/07/12 09:23:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 09:29:58
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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ThePaintingOwl wrote:
xttz wrote:Please show your working for this claim, to the nearest two decimal places.
What claim? That making less profit than you could is a failure? That's like asking to prove that water is wet.
OK you're literally just trolling the thread at this point.
You claimed GW can make an extra $500m profit by improving game design. Prove it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 09:31:15
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord
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ThePaintingOwl wrote:Tsagualsa wrote:Ah yes - Just tanked in months what they built up over decades, licensed properties all the way down and can't keep a game alive for two editions, and the platonic ideal of predatory business practices that would put some drug dealers to shame. Clearly vastly superior to bumbling old Father Brown GW 
You can't have it both ways. If you're going to insist that GW should be credited as a success for their profit numbers despite their obvious competitive design failures then the same applies to WOTC, they're a success that blows away anything GW is doing no matter how predatory their business model is. They're making giant piles of money and they dominate both the RPG and CCG markets.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
xttz wrote:Please show your working for this claim, to the nearest two decimal places.
What claim? That making less profit than you could is a failure? That's like asking to prove that water is wet.
The claim that they'd earn more money hiring staff in the US.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 09:34:48
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Rogue Grot Kannon Gunna
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xttz wrote:You claimed GW can make an extra $500m profit by improving game design. Prove it.
I claimed no such thing. Read the post again and pay attention to the use of the word "if".
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2023/07/12 09:36:32
Subject: Games Workshop is searching for a Matched Play-Game Designer (Applications until 30th July)
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Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord
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ThePaintingOwl wrote: xttz wrote:You claimed GW can make an extra $500m profit by improving game design. Prove it.
I claimed no such thing. Read the post again and pay attention to the use of the word "if".
So we loop back around to a random campaign for them to move an office to the US despite there being no want or reason from the company to do so?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/07/12 09:37:04
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