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Okay, so I've been playing at my gaming store since last year and having a fun time making friends. I play Orks, but I'm soon to get my Chaos Daemons army list ready for Halloween or try Blades of Khorne. However, I've appeared to have encountered an instance of this twice. Once with a TS player, and the other with a Drukhari player.


It seems both of these players like to talk really fast, like so fast that I don't get a word in to ask them how to explain their rules and the game. They also like to spin their dice in a really fast motion and I'm there just going 'uhuh'. Are they trying to do this as a way for me to not see the dice they roll and just go with it to WAAC? Now, I don't play in a tournament scene and my store is rather friendly, but it seems that I've seen this sort of behavior from a particular type of player who plays these two armies. They seem robotic and start talking about the stats and their abilities really fast while I'm trying to LAARP as my Orks.

It is not cheating. It is annoying and can reduce your fun. You have two choices:

1) Don't play these people. Life is too short to play games you don't enjoy.

2) Stop them from doing it. Every time they talk to fast for you to follow, as them to repeat themselves slower so that you understand what they are staying. Every time they roll dice somewhere you can't see them, ask them to roll them somewhere that is visible to you.

It is incumbent on you, one of the two players in the game, to ensure your opponent is aware of simple standards of play that allow you to follow the progression of the game.

The only part I'd say is a bit cheaty is if they are rolling dice out of sight/too fast to see.

Yes they might be playing faster through experience, but they should be allowing their opponent to see the dice roll.



thing is if they are competitive and experienced they might just be used to playing others who are also faster than you and thus they are used to playing as they are. BEST thing you can do is communicate your issues to them, remind them politely during the games that you have and set expectations on the table from the start. If you want to play slower; or want more time to understand their army, see their dice etc... then communicate that with them. Setting expectations before the match is important and its important to go into that process accepting up front that they might decide that they don't want to play. That is totally fine - you agree to not play and you both move onto play opponents that are more fun for you both. Or you agree to play with the modifiers.

Handy tip. Make it clear that you and your opponent must take away the dice that miss leaving the hits untouched so both players can see. This should reduce mistakes assuming they mean well and get you both on the same page.

As covered, the dice thing could be, but isn’t necessarily, cheating.

Typically I expect my opponent to clearly declare what it is they’re rolling for, count the dice out before rolling, and declare what the scoring value is.

Ideally, roll into a shallow box too. Keeps the dice contained, stops them clattering all over the board, stops them colliding with models, and it’s nicely visible for all.

My old store had a Horrendous Cheat, who’d just roll dice and as soon as they hit the board, start picking out what they claimed were hits. But there was no way the speed at which he did so allowed for any kind of accuracy.

Also, lifting out the misses/failed rolls means the next step in the roll is ready to go, as well as preventing other shenanigans.

As for them speaking fast? Don’t be afraid to pipe up if you don’t understand what they’re doing.

I'm guilty of rolling quickly when i'm playing with people i know well. To me rolling dice is the most boring part of the game, i just wanna get to the outcome so i'll roll quickly.


But most people i play with have a lost of trust that we wont cheat each other so we're fine with it.

Fastplay is not cheating, it can be a way to cover it up. They might just be concerned with getting done on time and instead potentially causing an issue by hurrying you up they speed up as much as possible. Your opponent has to answer your rules questions about their list, refusing to do so would be cheating. You should probably try to focus on improving your pregame chatting to balance expectations for your games and if you don't have fun playing someone you can just ask every other person for a game first and only accept games against them if nobody else wants to play them at the moment. Maybe you could ask for smaller games against them.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
I'm guilty of rolling quickly when i'm playing with people i know well. To me rolling dice is the most boring part of the game, i just wanna get to the outcome so i'll roll quickly.


But most people i play with have a lost of trust that we wont cheat each other so we're fine with it.

Ah, I'm the opposite. Since I'm an Ork player,I have to had rolled 24 dice before. I just crumple them all up in my hand, shake, and then drop them into my mousepad mat/tray thing I've won there as a lottery event thing.

Even if only about 1% of those dice help me, just dropping them all in an giving it to chance is thrilling. I miss Dakka weapons tbh and +20 Boyz squads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vict0988 wrote:
Fastplay is not cheating, it can be a way to cover it up. They might just be concerned with getting done on time and instead potentially causing an issue by hurrying you up they speed up as much as possible. Your opponent has to answer your rules questions about their list, refusing to do so would be cheating. You should probably try to focus on improving your pregame chatting to balance expectations for your games and if you don't have fun playing someone you can just ask every other person for a game first and only accept games against them if nobody else wants to play them at the moment. Maybe you could ask for smaller games against them.

Ah well, the thing is I live an hour away and the only way I can communicate with them is through Discord. The Drukhari guy seemed to be sitting around with nobody to play while I was waiting on another player who agreed upon our matchup that previous week. The other player showed up and we eventually played, but the Drukhari guy was looking lonely so I've thought I would be nice and play him a bit. After that he just packed up everything and left the store while I've played with my opponent who goes by the name Jacob.


They sort of know me at the store, but at the time everyone was already playing a game except the Drukhari player and my scheduled opponent Jacob hadn't made it to the store just yet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alextroy wrote:
It is not cheating. It is annoying and can reduce your fun. You have two choices:

1) Don't play these people. Life is too short to play games you don't enjoy.

2) Stop them from doing it. Every time they talk to fast for you to follow, as them to repeat themselves slower so that you understand what they are staying. Every time they roll dice somewhere you can't see them, ask them to roll them somewhere that is visible to you.

It is incumbent on you, one of the two players in the game, to ensure your opponent is aware of simple standards of play that allow you to follow the progression of the game.

1) Yeah, I guess you're right with the TS player. I'd wish they would just slow down when talking. I have autism, but due to how large my Ork army are and it's wacky rules (before the 10th) people would also grab my codex to look through it. That's another matter all together, but I will let people see my codex if they don't trust me. Only happened with a Grey Knights player there who seems rather uppity with people that I've had to explain the rules for Orks. They're pretty well known by the community there due to like two other Ork players at the store.

2) Yeah, this is the part I had an issue with. I have autism and due to driving an hour away I had to get up really early so I was rather drowsy. I will sometimes walk over to their table to see their backline. Mostly because I use my Deffkoptas to deep strike. But, I should be a bit more vocal on my concerns when it comes to communicating.

I've had the dreaded 1 hour travel time before when I had to ride my bicycle with all my Warhammer strapped to the rear rack, it's dreadful I know, I hope you figure things out OP. I don't know your garage situation but it could be cool if you could establish something with a neighbour or someone close by interested in having some casual games, it sounds like that'd be the optimal style of play for you. Consider looking up some resources on how to start a local 40k community if it is something you might be interested in, having 2 different factions would go a long way in that I imagine for doing intro games, but I don't know your situation. I don't know whether having autism makes starting up your own community more challenging. Perhaps you can see if there are any support groups or something like that around and try to recruit from that pool of people.

 vict0988 wrote:
I've had the dreaded 1 hour travel time before when I had to ride my bicycle with all my Warhammer strapped to the rear rack, it's dreadful I know, I hope you figure things out OP. I don't know your garage situation but it could be cool if you could establish something with a neighbour or someone close by interested in having some casual games, it sounds like that'd be the optimal style of play for you. Consider looking up some resources on how to start a local 40k community if it is something you might be interested in, having 2 different factions would go a long way in that I imagine for doing intro games, but I don't know your situation. I don't know whether having autism makes starting up your own community more challenging. Perhaps you can see if there are any support groups or something like that around and try to recruit from that pool of people.

Yeah, about that. That's another issue, I sort of live on a mountain out in the rural Georgian wilderness (the state, not the country). I'm probably the only avid wargammer for about miles or kilometers. Which is good because I got a lot of space to work on my models outside and get free 'terrain', but as far as a gaming group locally yeah I uh. People use real guns and trucks around these parts. XD

Georgia does have some good stores though, but they're all in separate counties and whatnot.

Jaredthefox92 wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:
I've had the dreaded 1 hour travel time before when I had to ride my bicycle with all my Warhammer strapped to the rear rack, it's dreadful I know, I hope you figure things out OP. I don't know your garage situation but it could be cool if you could establish something with a neighbour or someone close by interested in having some casual games, it sounds like that'd be the optimal style of play for you. Consider looking up some resources on how to start a local 40k community if it is something you might be interested in, having 2 different factions would go a long way in that I imagine for doing intro games, but I don't know your situation. I don't know whether having autism makes starting up your own community more challenging. Perhaps you can see if there are any support groups or something like that around and try to recruit from that pool of people.

Yeah, about that. That's another issue, I sort of live on a mountain out in the rural Georgian wilderness (the state, not the country). I'm probably the only avid wargammer for about miles or kilometers. Which is good because I got a lot of space to work on my models outside and get free 'terrain', but as far as a gaming group locally yeah I uh. People use real guns and trucks around these parts. XD

Georgia does have some good stores though, but they're all in separate counties and whatnot.

Don't discount gun nuts too quickly, from everything I've read Warhammer is big in the military

As others say, it sort of depends on how they are doing it.

There was this time in 8th edition, where I was watching a lot of 40k online, and took to narrating my own games in a similar way some of them did it as if I had an imaginary audience.

I.E. I'd say "this kabalite unit is shooting that unit of intercessors. There's no modifiers so I hit on 3s, *rolls dice*, Archon means I reroll 1s, *reroll 1s*, splinter rifles are poisoned weapons so wound on 4s,*rolls dice*, but I have writ of the living muse so reroll 1s *rerolls 1s*. That's 4 wounds, no modifiers, so you need 3+ to save."

To a degree I think its a good habit as it should keep everyone clear on what's happening - but equally if you are aiming to finish the game in 2-3 hours, you did have to start rattling through the rules like a machine gun.

1) Yeah, I guess you're right with the TS player. I'd wish they would just slow down when talking. I have autism, but due to how large my Ork army are and it's wacky rules (before the 10th) people would also grab my codex to look through it. That's another matter all together, but I will let people see my codex if they don't trust me. Only happened with a Grey Knights player there who seems rather uppity with people that I've had to explain the rules for Orks. They're pretty well known by the community there due to like two other Ork players at the store.

2) Yeah, this is the part I had an issue with. I have autism and due to driving an hour away I had to get up really early so I was rather drowsy. I will sometimes walk over to their table to see their backline. Mostly because I use my Deffkoptas to deep strike. But, I should be a bit more vocal on my concerns when it comes to communicating.

Don't worry about it, a *lot* of people have that same problem. If somebody is new, they might not want to speak up and be embarrassed, especially when playing a much more experienced player.

At the minimum you should ask them to announce what they are rolling for, and what the target number is before actually throwing down.
"these guys are attacking those guys, hit on 3+"

The second is or can be a form of cheating or gaining a leg up. The first doesn't seem like it though. All established games create a culture where it is assumed that after a fast or even no time, you are expected to know how the game works, what the short cuts are, what the rules are. This goes for video games, regular games or table top games too. It can sometimes take on extrem forms where day 1 of a game release you are expected to know everything, or risk being excluded from the community, because everyone else knows the rules well, be it because of prior expiriance or taking part in beta tests etc. You could of course ask people to speak slower or explain things, but if they find it annoying you will soon start to have problems finding games. From my expiriance, most but not all, w40k players in real life, will give a noob an explanation of things one, maybe two times. After the grace period of 2-3 months though, you are expected to know everything, have a proper painted, build and points sized army.

A good way around such problems, is the same thing as with everything. Learning the game rules, hiring a coach or trainer and training a few hours a day.