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So something odd cropped up on Reddit today and it was a gameplay shot of an as of yet unseen enemy, the tyranid lictor:



What sparked a thought for me is that this is almost definitely the old finecast lictor.

We know the game was announced December 2021, we also know that the plastic kits tend to go from design to release in 12-18 months at the fastest.

The Lictor was released September 9th 2023 with sprues stamped 2023, which we can safely means the casting of the mini was this year. If we assume that in the fastest turn around possible of 12 months based on previous info insiders have shared or hinted at, the earliest the design of the mini could have been done is September 2022.

So not knowing how the games industry moves exactly, but I am aware that they have a staffer whose job it is to ok designs and info on units prior release to ensure some accuracy to the source material.

Where this led me was wondering:

1. Is it possible the game was made with the visual models finished prior to the decision or design for the new nids being completed
2. Would they have withheld the new designs intentionally
3. Would GW be liable for the cost of remodelling the assets if they were too slow/withholding info

It strikes me as odd as clearly they'd aimed at least in part to have the releases (SM2 and Leviathan/10th) in some form of proximity to one another, it also seems to be a stereotpyical GW move to miss the opportunity to have a notable game release and for some reason have units that are not analogous to what they sell.

Just had me scratching my head as to why/what went wrong, wondered if anyone had any suggestions.

Dudeface wrote:
2. Would they have withheld the new designs intentionally

It's this - GW do not share pre-release designs with anyone.

1) yes it is possible
2) this for sure, GW does not want anything from new models being in the open prior the model release
3) it is a license GW gives under certain conditions, and GW tells them what they can do and what not, if the game is visually outdated it is the problem of the game company, not GW

I would argue that "visually outdated" doesn't matter if the game looks good.
Like yeah it's not the most current model but if the graphics are good (which they so far have been IMO) and the Lictor acts like a Lictor, I don't think it's a big deal.

beast_gts wrote:
It's this - GW do not share pre-release designs with anyone.

That's not true. They'll share what's relevant to to the products being made.

When I worked with FFG, I knew about Nemesis Dreadknights and all the upcoming Grey Knight stuff long before the 5th Ed book ever came out. With the Space Hulk/Deathwing game that came out a few years ago, they had Genestealer Hybrids in it to such a degree that they had to have been shown the designs prior to their release in 7th.

What's frustrating is when things get held back from the new model for asinine reasons. Total War Warhammer 3 has Be'lakor's old design not because it was made before Be'lakor's new model, but because technically current Be'lakor is an Age of Sigmar design. But they did get the current Keeper of Secrets, because it would've looked weird to have all the updated Greater Daemons and then the old smaller KOS design.

 Gert wrote:
I would argue that "visually outdated" doesn't matter if the game looks good.
Like yeah it's not the most current model but if the graphics are good (which they so far have been IMO) and the Lictor acts like a Lictor, I don't think it's a big deal.

One of the top comments on the reddit post was someone asking if it was a lictor or a leaper, because the silhouette is in the middle of them.

There's also lil timmys expectations that what he sees on screen is the same thing he wants to buy from the shop.

As far as I can see, the game's going to be PEGI / BBFC 18, so lil Timmy shouldn't be playing it in the first place...

Dudeface wrote:
One of the top comments on the reddit post was someone asking if it was a lictor or a leaper, because the silhouette is in the middle of them.

There's also lil timmys expectations that what he sees on screen is the same thing he wants to buy from the shop.

They'll find out when the game calls it a Lictor. Pretty basic stuff no?
Also the Lictor did not change so much that it's completely unrecognisable.
It's really grasping at straws to call this some kind of problem with GW or SM2.

 Gert wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
One of the top comments on the reddit post was someone asking if it was a lictor or a leaper, because the silhouette is in the middle of them.

There's also lil timmys expectations that what he sees on screen is the same thing he wants to buy from the shop.

They'll find out when the game calls it a Lictor. Pretty basic stuff no?
Also the Lictor did not change so much that it's completely unrecognisable.
It's really grasping at straws to call this some kind of problem with GW or SM2.

It's silhouette around the shoulders and back is fairly different.

I'm not suggesting it's a direct problem, it just seems incredibly weird that they've included the old models in video game form, for something that comes out notably after the release of the minis. To the point it doesn't make sense imo given there should have been time to avoid it if GW were open.

If I were an artist or executive at Saber, I'd be annoyed I'd been given the wrong reference material to work towards, or that it'd be changed after I'd finished my work.

If I were a sales or design person, or someone responsible for ip integrity at GW, I'd be annoyed my big winter video game release didn't match my saleable products.

Dudeface wrote:

 Gert wrote:
I would argue that "visually outdated" doesn't matter if the game looks good.
Like yeah it's not the most current model but if the graphics are good (which they so far have been IMO) and the Lictor acts like a Lictor, I don't think it's a big deal.

One of the top comments on the reddit post was someone asking if it was a lictor or a leaper, because the silhouette is in the middle of them.

There's also lil timmys expectations that what he sees on screen is the same thing he wants to buy from the shop.

Imagine little Timmy wanting to buy cool Warhammer Fantasy models because of Total War Warhammer but everything he sees in the shop is AoS...

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Gert wrote:
I would argue that "visually outdated" doesn't matter if the game looks good.
Like yeah it's not the most current model but if the graphics are good (which they so far have been IMO) and the Lictor acts like a Lictor, I don't think it's a big deal.

One of the top comments on the reddit post was someone asking if it was a lictor or a leaper, because the silhouette is in the middle of them.

There's also lil timmys expectations that what he sees on screen is the same thing he wants to buy from the shop.

Imagine little Timmy wanting to buy cool Warhammer Fantasy models because of Total War Warhammer but everything he sees in the shop is AoS...

This is my point, you think they'd have learned.

Dudeface wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Gert wrote:
I would argue that "visually outdated" doesn't matter if the game looks good.
Like yeah it's not the most current model but if the graphics are good (which they so far have been IMO) and the Lictor acts like a Lictor, I don't think it's a big deal.

One of the top comments on the reddit post was someone asking if it was a lictor or a leaper, because the silhouette is in the middle of them.

There's also lil timmys expectations that what he sees on screen is the same thing he wants to buy from the shop.

Imagine little Timmy wanting to buy cool Warhammer Fantasy models because of Total War Warhammer but everything he sees in the shop is AoS...

This is my point, you think they'd have learned.

No rational person would make that statement. GW learns nothing or at least lacks the capacity to learn.

beast_gts wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
2. Would they have withheld the new designs intentionally

It's this - GW do not share pre-release designs with anyone.

Sanginuary Guard of the Primaris type were leaked in 9th ed. Like in the middle of it, by a toy company.

Honestly? I got into 40K back in 2010, I knew the IP existed but only because I had been raised in a country fascinated with Starcraft... (yes crucifiy me, I loved Brood Wars) and I saw the box cover art for one of the first Dawn of War games, probably base game too, given it's Marine vs. Orks.

Anyways, as I played the game, Dawn of War II, I got into the hobby scene and bought a box of tactical marines and some odd imperial guard minis at the comic store next to my uni campus.

You know what I never asked myself? "Oh gee, this tactical marine's helmet design is not 100% the same as DoWII‘s" or something. And I'm pretty sure even younger kids, if they play this game and wanted a Lictor, they won't go, “gee, the silhoutte looks different". They probably won't know a Lictor from a Leaper the first time they saw it, and if they gets into the hobby, they won't need to reconciliate the difference between real-life products and in-game models.

This like that Belakor model in TWW3 all over again... hell, the looks of the new and the old minis, san size, aren't all that different to begin with. Not a big deal.

Besides, Tyranids adapt and mutate into different looking forms all the time. As long as the Marines look the same, cash registers go brrr

Insisting on "Everything in the 40K world must look identical across all mediums" makes the universe feel smaller

Dudeface wrote:

What sparked a thought for me is that this is almost definitely the old finecast lictor.

Its a Protoss. Like Genestealers are Aliens.

 tauist wrote:
Besides, Tyranids adapt and mutate into different looking forms all the time. As long as the Marines look the same, cash registers go brrr

Insisting on "Everything in the 40K world must look identical across all mediums" makes the universe feel smaller

100% agree with this. And I don't think 99.9% of customers or people playing the game will care, as the game itself just looks damned awesome.

And remember how many hundreds of thousands (possibly more?) units of the Total Warhammer Warhammer games sold, which are set in a world that had quite literally been destroyed by GW? I suspect that very few people were put off from buying that game because by rights it should have been set in the AoS universe, considering those have been some of the highest selling PC games over recent years.

Total War Warhammer one's steam page (or splash within the game itself) had a link to the GW webstore... to the Age of Sigmar section.

That was pretty funny.

beast_gts wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
2. Would they have withheld the new designs intentionally

It's this - GW do not share pre-release designs with anyone.

Except we know the above is completely wrong because SM2 screenshots shown us new Space Marine units and weapons years before they were actually released. Did you really miss everyone was expecting Primaris assault marines 'any day now' for nearly two years based purely on what Titus and co were wearing in action scenes (and a lot of his gear tracks on jump pack captain that was released even later than that)?