Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have been thinking about how GW missed an opportunity* with the recent Imperial Guard releases.

Rather than replace the serviceable plastic Cadian kits with a new kit with a visually distinct aesthetic (making backwards compatibility annoying), they should have remade one of the defunct metal regiments in plastic. Especially as Cadia was blown up.

My thoughts are that they should have gone with Mordian Iron Guard, but made the models have a bit more grim-dark techy body horror snuck in. So they look really anachronistic with pressed Napoleonic uniforms alongside bionic arms and cyber eyes. This makes sense for soldiery recruited from a massive hive world based on the level of augmentations we see floating around Necromunda. Make their gear immaculate, but show that the humans underneath are hive scum that have been reforged into an iron fist.

Why Mordians, you say? Why not Valhallans or Steel Legion, greatcoats and trench coats are popular? Why not Vostroyans, if you really want that grim-dark aesthetic? Why not Tallarn, for a different aesthetic and combat style to the other two (sort of three) plastic regiments?

Well, firstly I'd love all in plastic, especially Steel Legion. However, the plastic DKoK scratches the greatcoat itch and I don't think GW will want to overlap there. Secondly, the Mordians would look perfect alongside the new Lord Solar model in a way none of the current Guard models do. A force of perfect, grim-faced uniforms would make the ideal bodyguard for the anachronistic high commander riding a horse to war. They would contrast the modern Cadian aesthetic and gung ho Catachans well.

As it currently stands, Leontus does not match the existing range. I have issues with design choices on the model (needs at least one servo skull, a hovering info-slate, more bionics on the commander etc.), but it does broadly match known aesthetics of Imperial Guard high commanders and warmasters like Slaydo and Macarov. However, the rest of that styling is not shown by GW today so Leontus sticks out like a sore thumb. With Mordians, not so much!


*GW, missing an opportunity?! Never!


Edit: this image is what I imagine the range could have looked like. Scrappy, battered humans wearing perfect uniforms.

The Cadians were not serviceable.

I remember when they first came out; people complained about how bad they looked and how poor the sculpting was. That has only grown more pronounced over time.

You can't have the base generic infantry for a faction being 20 year old sculpts anymore.

 Bosskelot wrote:
The Cadians were not serviceable.

I remember when they first came out; people complained about how bad they looked and how poor the sculpting was. That has only grown more pronounced over time.

You can't have the base generic infantry for a faction being 20 year old sculpts anymore.

They were ok, and the newer parts were decent (command squad, upgrade sprue released shortly before the revamp).

However, that misses the point- Cadians would no longer be the flagship generic infantry, Mordians would be. Catachans, Cadians, and DKoK would be alternate choices. We haven't gained any choices with the Cadian revamp, we could have gained a new plastic regiment plus the existing ones.

 Haighus wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
The Cadians were not serviceable.

I remember when they first came out; people complained about how bad they looked and how poor the sculpting was. That has only grown more pronounced over time.

You can't have the base generic infantry for a faction being 20 year old sculpts anymore.

They were ok, and the newer parts were decent (command squad, upgrade sprue released shortly before the revamp).

However, that misses the point- Cadians would no longer be the flagship generic infantry, Mordians would be. Catachans, Cadians, and DKoK would be alternate choices. We haven't gained any choices with the Cadian revamp, we could have gained a new plastic regiment plus the existing ones.

They were hideous with greta big melon heads.

Mordians were always a niche choice, nice idea but never a staple of the range. Cadians were the only option really for the first revamp, generic enough to be used as any home brew regiments. No others off that list could do that. I say FIRST hopefully. Fingers crossed for death korp or jungle fighters or (big wish here) steel legion in plastic for the codex release. My moneys on jungle fighters.

I'd certainly like to see a different regiment get some attention. Not least because I just hate the Cadian aesthetic.

That said, if I was going to suggest a regiment to get the limelight it would be Vostroyans.

To my mind, they have by far the most interesting aesthetic and also the one that seems most at home in 40k.

There are rumours of the Kriegers getting a proper expansion (Heavy Weapons & Command), so hopefully that's true.

Vostroyans got a lot of presence in 5th era books I think.

Mordian are too niche to be the first choice I agree for once that they didn't go for them first.

But rather than cadian, I'd have liked that they put out the steel legion because oh boy they look cool.

I'm less fond of the catachan or more Dkok look but that would be logical for them to get new sculpts since they were the second step of the podium.

Also, bringing back elysian drop troopers would be so neat.

Wouldn't have the money to indulge in them though so ya know

Andykp wrote:

Spoiler:

 Haighus wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:
The Cadians were not serviceable.

I remember when they first came out; people complained about how bad they looked and how poor the sculpting was. That has only grown more pronounced over time.

You can't have the base generic infantry for a faction being 20 year old sculpts anymore.

They were ok, and the newer parts were decent (command squad, upgrade sprue released shortly before the revamp).

However, that misses the point- Cadians would no longer be the flagship generic infantry, Mordians would be. Catachans, Cadians, and DKoK would be alternate choices. We haven't gained any choices with the Cadian revamp, we could have gained a new plastic regiment plus the existing ones.

They were hideous with greta big melon heads.

Mordians were always a niche choice, nice idea but never a staple of the range. Cadians were the only option really for the first revamp, generic enough to be used as any home brew regiments. No others off that list could do that. I say FIRST hopefully. Fingers crossed for death korp or jungle fighters or (big wish here) steel legion in plastic for the codex release. My moneys on jungle fighters.

What is a bit sad to me is when they got rid of the silly Spaceballs helmets, they went the other extreme, where helmets add practically nothing to the size of the head. Mind you its kind of a GW thing to do in general but I'm still not fond of it.

Part of what irks me so much with modern 40k in the first place is that there is still cadians. A range refresh would be the perfect chance to at least focus on a new regiment as the primary one, perhaps Armageddon with how often the planet comes up. You blow up a planet then act like nothing even happened. More reason really to regard the current narrative as a joke I 'pose.

Yep. Of course you could bring forward the argument that "half the guard uses cadian gear" but funnily enough they are advertised and label "cadian".

Vostroyans are sooo cooool. I still dream of collecting an army of them, but that's a commitment I'm unlikely to make.

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
Yep. Of course you could bring forward the argument that "half the guard uses cadian gear" but funnily enough they are advertised and label "cadian".

The excuses for it are also so pretentious too. "Oh they've got planetary colonies", ok but what the hell are they doing being called Cadians too? Admittedly it'd be funny if they were called Cadians II, but it just feels so disconnected with what was played up to be such a big deal in the narrative. Plus campaigns literally can't happen on Cadia anymore while other planets get a lot more screentime now. Especially with how they've connected Ullanor to Armageddon so we can probably expect another Armageddon War campaign down the pipeline.

Would much prefer Tallan desert raiders.

 vipoid wrote:
I'd certainly like to see a different regiment get some attention. Not least because I just hate the Cadian aesthetic.

That said, if I was going to suggest a regiment to get the limelight it would be Vostroyans.

To my mind, they have by far the most interesting aesthetic and also the one that seems most at home in 40k.

This is fair. Vostroyans would have been my first choice if they'd made Lord Solar Leontus a bit more weird grim dark. I do think Vostroyans have the most 40k aesthetic of any released Guard range except the plastic Scions. Although the new Attilans are great and a fairly close second.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:


Mordian are too niche to be the first choice I agree for once that they didn't go for them first.

I don't think Mordians are niche when they have had subfaction rules for several editions now. Certainly no more niche than any other subfaction left without models these days. Guard generally has the issue that their subfactions are extremely visually distinct, but only 3 have models now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kurhanik wrote:


What is a bit sad to me is when they got rid of the silly Spaceballs helmets, they went the other extreme, where helmets add practically nothing to the size of the head. Mind you its kind of a GW thing to do in general but I'm still not fond of it.

To be honest, I don't think the old plastic Cadian heads were that bad. Real military helmets are very bulky and they didn't look that odd. I think the new sculpts have a more uncanny look with their undersized heads and helmets.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
Yep. Of course you could bring forward the argument that "half the guard uses cadian gear" but funnily enough they are advertised and label "cadian".

The excuses for it are also so pretentious too. "Oh they've got planetary colonies", ok but what the hell are they doing being called Cadians too?

You know that Cadia was a planet and a system both, right?

Admittedly it'd be funny if they were called Cadians II, but it just feels so disconnected with what was played up to be such a big deal in the narrative.

Tell me you never read any of the background material for the Eye of Terror campaign without telling me you never read any of the background material...

Plus campaigns literally can't happen on Cadia anymore while other planets get a lot more screentime now.

Yeeeeeeeeah...no, stuff can still happen on Cadia.

Especially with how they've connected Ullanor to Armageddon so we can probably expect another Armageddon War campaign down the pipeline.

I take it you haven't read the most recent Guard codex?

If we're going to see another Armageddon War, it ain't gonna be Green.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Haighus wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
I'd certainly like to see a different regiment get some attention. Not least because I just hate the Cadian aesthetic.

That said, if I was going to suggest a regiment to get the limelight it would be Vostroyans.

To my mind, they have by far the most interesting aesthetic and also the one that seems most at home in 40k.

This is fair. Vostroyans would have been my first choice if they'd made Lord Solar Leontus a bit more weird grim dark. I do think Vostroyans have the most 40k aesthetic of any released Guard range except the plastic Scions. Although the new Attilans are great and a fairly close second.

Saying that anything has "the most 40k aesthetic" for Guard is missing the point of Guard. It really is.

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:


Mordian are too niche to be the first choice I agree for once that they didn't go for them first.

I don't think Mordians are niche when they have had subfaction rules for several editions now. Certainly no more niche than any other subfaction left without models these days. Guard generally has the issue that their subfactions are extremely visually distinct, but only 3 have models now.

Ehhh...Guard has the issue that their subfaction rules aren't just visually distinct, but they should be list-buildingly restrictive.

To be honest, I don't think the old plastic Cadian heads were that bad. Real military helmets are very bulky and they didn't look that odd. I think the new sculpts have a more uncanny look with their undersized heads and helmets.

They were that bad. The FW upgrade kits showed just how bad they were.


With all of that said and done:
Cadians needed a refresh. They were genuinely that old. Their refresh should not, however, have interrupted Krieg getting a fleshed out range nor should it have precluded the Catachans from getting a refresh as well.

I don't think Mordians, stylistically, fit anymore. Not without a rework to their garb. They'd fit perfectly in Militarum Tempestus or Officio Prefectus though...

Mordians are fine in the same way that Valhallans or Attilans are fine.

They work as a cool option but no single other Guard Regiment works as a baseline for Your Models as much as the Cadians.

Like the generic Space Marine units they are a blank slate for paint schemes and kitbashing that none of the other Regiments can pull off especially now that the proportions aren't absolutely cursed.

All GW needs to do is bring out upgrade packs for the Cadian boxes that add the Mordian caps, Steel Legion gasmask helmets, and a new GSC upgrade sprue for Brood Brothers.
The armour on Cadians isn't nearly as massive as it was and the addition of webbing makes it easier to use them as a basis for other regiments.

I would had been happy with _any_ regiment, if they had just kept the same scale. The size creep is insane! And it just makes all xenos and astartes seem smaller again.

 Gert wrote:

All GW needs to do is bring out upgrade packs for the Cadian boxes that add the Mordian caps, Steel Legion gasmask helmets,

Or we split the difference and instead release actual squad boxes of each, with crew figures for the Heavy Weapon Squads.

and a new GSC upgrade sprue for Brood Brothers.

NOPE.

I'm fed up with Brood Brothers. I get the theme behind it, I know the lore but I disagree vehemently with the half-cocked way they have it now. Anything with a planetary subfaction should be prohibited from being Brood Brothers'd, not just Epic Heroes.

They should be prioritizing a generic Infantry Squad kit right now.

I usually outright like your takes, Haighus, but I think this one misses the mark.

I like ALL the subfactions- I loved Tallarn, because I used them as Ash Waste Nomads in the first edition of Necromunda; wintery Vostryans make me feel Canadian and make me want to kitbash snowmobiles.

Elysians intrigue me- there's talk of a Tauros Venator (for Necromunda?!), and the Tauros / Skytalon combo is something I've always loved and wanted.

But for me, it's all about:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
There are rumours of the Kriegers getting a proper expansion (Heavy Weapons & Command), so hopefully that's true.

If this happens, I will actually grow my Guard. Ideally I'd also want a Krieg Company Commander too- not just the platoon command squad, but I'll take whatever I can get. Right now, all I've got is a unit of Kriegers, Advisors, Preachers, the BSF Primaris, Raus and Rein. But man, I've been waiting to buy two more units of Krieg, some Valkyries, Manticores and some Ogryns and Ratlings.

Haven't bothered yet because a) already a slow painter with a HUGE pile of grey shame and b) not worth it if I can't field command that matches the army.

From a development standpoint, there's a lot of bang for the buck here: you've got the KT to build on, so you don't have to create as many units to field a unified force.

I'm still putting forward the feasibility of a multipe-part kit that combines the Tallarn, Steel Legion, and Vahallan in the same kit.





The way i see it is, the trenchcoat part can be made the same, since a decent paint job could make differentiate them well enough. Add a 6-8 pairs of pauldrons for the Tallarn, 10 of those over-the-shoulder sacks/sash for the Vahallan, the normal pouches & grenade addons, which all of them can use, and the rest is just how they design the mutli-part heads to be swappable with helmets, ushankas, Turbans and perhaps glue-on goggles for the Steel Legionaires.

Vostroyans and the Mordians, IMO, are in the akward position where they are too distinct from the other regiments without much reusable parts. Mordians is sleek, Vostroyans are visually busy. Hell, the previous 3 regiments could all wear the flak armor over their trenchcoats and they'd still look like themselves, but I argue both the Vostroyans and Mordians looks would be lessened without the flak armor.

I don't like the new Cadian range, rather they kept the old aesthetic with the late sprues. That said Mordians are very niche, one of many real world military aesthetic uniforms that GW want to stay away from for copyright purposes. There are plenty of 3rd party mini makers for alternative IG regiments.

I still think mordian are niche, I mean, visually, as all other have some sort of rugged appearance to them. Vostroyans are almost steampunk to me. Mordian really stand apart for being that bright and stuff in my view. Just my taste though.

Multi regiment kits could be a good idea on paper but I can't even dare to make a guess at the insane price a box of these would cost for the amount of options that would land and rest in my bitz box forever.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Or we split the difference and instead release actual squad boxes of each, with crew figures for the Heavy Weapon Squads.

That would create a lot of products that aren't going to sell enough to be worthwhile. By focusing on three distinct aesthetics (Cadian/generic, Catachan, and Krieg) GW can focus on actually making gains for those aesthetics like Death Riders, Grenadiers or Catachans that aren't awful.
Upgrade kits satisfy the need for GW approval on these other regiments while the Guard range isn't bloated with 7 kits for every single infantry unit some of which will sell and most will not.

They should be prioritizing a generic Infantry Squad kit right now.

That's Cadians my guy. Where have you been for the last however many years where GW has made it really clear that the Cadian gear aesthetic is the standard for the Guard.
They are generic Imperial soldiers that serve as an excellent basis for customisation because they don't have characteristics that are know as another Regiments "thing".
Want to make Tanith? Get some modelling putty and sculpt some cloaks. Want to make Muskateer inspired Guard? Grab some of the Empire heads with fancy hats and slap them on. Want to make them look like medieval soldiers? Take helmets and gubbins from the new Freeguilds range.

Mordians are great.

My Guard army is 2 platoons of metal Cadians, 2 platoons of plastic Cadians (the old ones, not the new ones), a platoon of Mordians and a platoon of Tallarns. I love the Mordian aesthetic - full dress uniform in the face of oblivion!

Had they been around at the time, I'd probably have Vostroyans as well as they're the most 40k/John Blanche-come-to-life Guard models GW has ever made.

I have 2 squads of Kriegers that remain unbuilt. If they do command/heavies for them, I get a platoon. If they don't, I try and sell them.

(Technically I guess I have Atillans as well 'cause of the new RRs, but I'm going to give them Cadian heads)

 Gert wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Or we split the difference and instead release actual squad boxes of each, with crew figures for the Heavy Weapon Squads.

That would create a lot of products that aren't going to sell enough to be worthwhile. By focusing on three distinct aesthetics (Cadian/generic, Catachan, and Krieg) GW can focus on actually making gains for those aesthetics like Death Riders, Grenadiers or Catachans that aren't awful.
Upgrade kits satisfy the need for GW approval on these other regiments while the Guard range isn't bloated with 7 kits for every single infantry unit some of which will sell and most will not.

The thing to remember is that outside of a few aesthetics(Death Korps, Cadians, and Elysians)? Some of these are very one-note subfactions. A Mordian Rough Rider will look just like a Mordian infantryman who will look just like/extremely similar to a Mordian artilleryman.

An Elysian infantryman will look similar to an Elysian Sentinel pilot...but the sadly never produced Elysian Stormtroopers had another look entirely. Like how DKoK infantry and Grenadiers aren't exactly the same, nor are Cadians and Kasrkin are exactly the same.

Unique units for each of the Big Regiments isn't out of the question. The Heavy Weapon stuff is an easy solve for the most part, as a single upgrade frame could easily feature legs & torsos for a HWT or the like.

They should be prioritizing a generic Infantry Squad kit right now.

That's Cadians my guy. Where have you been for the last however many years where GW has made it really clear that the Cadian gear aesthetic is the standard for the Guard.

Not "the standard", but certainly close to it.

But fluff aside? Read the Infantry Squad's options. There's a bunch of options missing from the Cadian kit that are standard for the Infantry Squad kit. No Heavy Weapon Team on sprue, no Sniper Rifle for Special Weapons, no Boltgun, Plasma Pistol, or Power Weapon options for the Sergeants.
And the Infantry Squad's Sergeant can't take the drum-fed autogun.

I don't think it is surprising that regimental grenadiers/stormtroopers look different to the line infantry. You'd expect Armageddon stormtroopers to look different to a standard Steel Legion guardsman too.

I have a feeling FW were not happy with any of the Elysian stormtrooper concepts, they cover quite a wide range of designs (particularly for the helmet) from a beefed-up version of standard Elysian gear to something akin to MJOLNIR armour from the Halo series.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Vostroyans are sooo cooool. I still dream of collecting an army of them, but that's a commitment I'm unlikely to make.

I feel the same way.

 Haighus wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
I'd certainly like to see a different regiment get some attention. Not least because I just hate the Cadian aesthetic.

That said, if I was going to suggest a regiment to get the limelight it would be Vostroyans.

To my mind, they have by far the most interesting aesthetic and also the one that seems most at home in 40k.

This is fair. Vostroyans would have been my first choice if they'd made Lord Solar Leontus a bit more weird grim dark. I do think Vostroyans have the most 40k aesthetic of any released Guard range except the plastic Scions. Although the new Attilans are great and a fairly close second.

Maybe we differ because I hate the Lord Horseyman model, so if anything I'd be happy enough to see that replaced as well.

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
I still think mordian are niche, I mean, visually, as all other have some sort of rugged appearance to them. Vostroyans are almost steampunk to me. Mordian really stand apart for being that bright and stuff in my view. Just my taste though.

Not just you. Mordians are the stand-out regiment that exemplified 'this is just a real world army that's ported into Warhammer' with no effort whatsoever. There's nothing to work with.
As much as I dislike Catachans (for both sculpts and inspiration), the jungle death world at least tries to justify their existence, though imo not very well. I at least get why and what the pull is for other people.

Mordians are just an empty nothing.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The thing to remember is that outside of a few aesthetics(Death Korps, Cadians, and Elysians)? Some of these are very one-note subfactions. A Mordian Rough Rider will look just like a Mordian infantryman who will look just like/extremely similar to a Mordian artilleryman.

An Elysian infantryman will look similar to an Elysian Sentinel pilot...but the sadly never produced Elysian Stormtroopers had another look entirely. Like how DKoK infantry and Grenadiers aren't exactly the same, nor are Cadians and Kasrkin are exactly the same.

Unique units for each of the Big Regiments isn't out of the question. The Heavy Weapon stuff is an easy solve for the most part, as a single upgrade frame could easily feature legs & torsos for a HWT or the like.

If they're so one-note then they can be an upgrade sprue. The updated Cadians work as a good basepoint for Steel Legion, Tallarn and a more updated Mordian look.
With the Catachan and Krieg models that's 6 Regiments with GW kits that also doesn't bloat the Guard range to silly proportions.
Want Mordian Rough Riders? Use the upgrade sprue to swap the heads. Want Steel Legion Heavy Weapons? Head swap and paint your models appropriately.
The weird rules change where the Regiments with models got individual profiles is weird and isn't applied equally.

Not "the standard", but certainly close to it.

No, GW was explicit in the 8th Ed Codex (I don't know about 9th cos I dropped out prior to Guard coming out) that the Cadian pattern of gear was used by many other Regiments as the Cadians were the exemplars of the Imperial Guard.
There would be local cultural trappings and Regimental colours but the base gear was the same because Cadian models are the generic base point for the Guard and have been for some time now.
Just because you don't want it to be the case doesn't make it so.

But fluff aside? Read the Infantry Squad's options. There's a bunch of options missing from the Cadian kit that are standard for the Infantry Squad kit. No Heavy Weapon Team on sprue, no Sniper Rifle for Special Weapons, no Boltgun, Plasma Pistol, or Power Weapon options for the Sergeants.
And the Infantry Squad's Sergeant can't take the drum-fed autogun.

My guy, whenever a kit is made to represent the "Infantry Squad", it has never ever come with the full suite of options.
Most special weapons are sold separately like with the Cadians, Catachans, Vostroyans, Steel Legion, and if you couldn't get the weapons separately then no special weapons for you.
Heavy Weapon teams haven't been included in an Infantry box since the move to plastic and those that remained metal had the heavy choices separated.