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So...I'm not sure where to post this, but I guess I'll start. Almost a year ago now, I began work on some Iron Warriors legionaries, telling myself it would just be a fun little project. Then I bought a rhino, then I bought the new (at the time) MKIII box, and then some more and the rest is history. But I have been eyeing this army again. Most of it is, (rather shamefully) unbuilt/unpainted. (it took me multiple months just to paint 10 marines! Imagine how long this will take...although I do have all the built ones based, so it's a start...right?)


So my go to 500 point list is two 5 man legionary squads, a helbrute, a chaos lord, and a rhino. It's served me well (aside from that time I lost to Admech and got tabled and only killed two skitarii...)

Well enough rambling, here's what I got. What should I add? I want to dabble in vehicles (Iron Warriors and all that...) when I have everything done, I also might add a couple characters and one of the old daemon prince models.

Here's what I got:


Chaos Lord/Sorcerer He's of the terminator variety, but he's on the same base so I use him as both kinds of Lord/Sorcerer. He's kind of a placeholder for when I finally convert a Cataphractii lord to lead this army

Dark Apostle I converted him mostly because it seemed cool, also to lead some cultists

Legionaries I have 10 of them painted

Melee Legionaries I have 10 of them, converted from the newer Khorne Berzerkers kit, I gave them two heavy chain weapons, reasoning that because one looks more like a chainsword, and the other an axe I can use them as both 'zerkers and legionaries. (You can only give one heavy chain weapon to a legionary squad, but two to a zerker squad)

Even more legionaries some unbuilt legionaries, standard boltgun marines. I have about 6 of them built, and 3 were to be used as Plague Marines but I abandoned that project

Rubric Marines I bought them on a whim a while ago, they are primed but not painted yet. they have Warpflamers

Rhino just a normal chaos rhino, I painted it around the time I did those first 10 marines

Land Raider a land raider proteus, I messed up painting it and will strip it soon. I filled it up with sprue parts so it makes a rattley noise when you move it, I also sealed a small coin in the doors for fun.

Helbrute a contemptor dreadnought, with a power fist, plasma cannon, and a heavy flamer. Nothing really to note here.

Cultists I got 20 of 'em. A mixture of unused krieg guardsmen and primed-over skitarii. I still have to finish painting them. They all have guns, and a flamer and grenade launcher. I'll probably use index rules with this army for now, so I have them as ranged in games, despite the codex changes. I could probably use them as traitor guard.

I think that's about it. I might build some Chosen with the leftover MKIII models, I just don't know how to convey their status on the models.

I might actually add some Daemon engines or vehicles, but I really want to know what I should add to make this a proper army, instead of just being 'infantry infantry infantry' all the time.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I've never found Legionaries to be wasted points, so the more of them the better. I'd definitely aim for ten Chosen as well, especially if you have the spare minis already, they're rock solid. I cut up a some spare Terminator trophy racks to give each of my Chosen a head/skull/helmet on a spike mounted on top of their backpack, which none of my regular Legionaries have - you're probably only going to ever have one Chosen squad on the table so they don't need to stand out by a mile, just have something you can spot if you need to remind yourself which squad is which. For Iron Warriors, if you haven't done so on any Legionaries already, maybe have the Chosen with the yellow/black hazard stripes on both shoulder pads?

You could probably build a decent army with what you own now, legionaries are pretty solid, Rubrics work well in the Raiders detachment etc.

For what to add I agree with above and would say chosen. They are pretty great and the models are cool.

After that you probably want a foot lord with a hammer to lead the chosen or the CC legionaries

Also a squad of terminators for your lord/sorcerer to lead.

I like venomcrawlers and vindicators. vindicators are good anti-armor units, although a lot of people go with the forgefiend.

 xeen wrote:
You could probably build a decent army with what you own now, legionaries are pretty solid, Rubrics work well in the Raiders detachment etc.

For what to add I agree with above and would say chosen. They are pretty great and the models are cool.

After that you probably want a foot lord with a hammer to lead the chosen or the CC legionaries

Also a squad of terminators for your lord/sorcerer to lead.

I like venomcrawlers and vindicators. vindicators are good anti-armor units, although a lot of people go with the forgefiend.

thanks very much for the advice. I'm going to buy the cataphractii praetor and somehow convert him to have a hammer. You see, it doesn't feel right to have this big Warsmith I've built up in my head as an imposing leader of a chaos warband in my head be on foot and be trumped by some guy wearing bigger armour. That's why I generally prefer to have a chaos terminator lord double as a chaos lord, he has the biggest armour, and it doesn't make sense as to why he couldn't lead legionaries. Same base size too.

Anyway, you had some interesting recommendations. I have a game planned against Admech, the guy who beat me has beaten me before and I only killed two of his models, so while I'm usually a casual player, I REALLY want to stick it to him and beat him at least once. Vindicators are very thematic and are a definite add-on for this army in future. Forgefiend when I've improved painting skills maybe. What are venomcrawlers good for? Or should I just add another helbrute? I'll be using leftover mkiii for chosen, so I only hope to make my models as cool as the official ones. Wat's a good loadout for chosen, too? Cataphractii terminators are definitely a good idea.

Okay, but (I'm just going to call the opponent Toaster.)

Toaster has told me he will bring two armiger knights, which ones I don't know. He brought multiple squads of skitarii last time, a Dominus, and he will probably bring three marshals, and a dunecrawler. I want to play a 1000 point list. I don't know what else he will bring. Out of all of what I have, what are the must-brings? I had a silly idea for the CC legionaries... a dark apostle and master of executions leading the 10 man squad. All mark of Khorne, talisman of burning blood on either the Apostle or Executioner, I don't know for sure. I will definitely bring the land raider, and I may shop for a second hand rhino online if I can, Hephaiston the helbrute is a must add to the list. I will most likely be using the basic index detachment, as I don't have the codex yet. 20 cultists are a must bring in the list, too good to not bring. Anything else to bring, I need help with. If youre okay espousing tips of course. I am willing to purchase and build a vehicle or two just to spite him. I have the personality of an Iron Warrior when dealing with this git. I just want to see the look on his face, that's it.

Update: I have purchased a forgefiend, terminators, and Chaos spawn.

 bullisariuscowl wrote:
Update: I have purchased a forgefiend, terminators, and Chaos spawn.

That is a good pick up. I was actually thinking about this question of expanding an army the other day for a friend as well, and I would offer another piece of advice, at least with CSM. You should try to diversify your collection prior to prioritizing "meta" picks for this edition. I have been playing this game since second edition, and what is good and what is sh*t will change so often that it will make Tzeentch happy. Example, Lord Discordant was AWESOME in 9th edition with some combos. He is utter trash now. I am glad I own one because a. I can create a list to punch down if playing someone new, and b. he will be awesome again at some point. So if you plan on playing for the long haul, you should focus on getting diversity in your army with many different units. The good thing for CSM now, is while all picks are not "tournament competitive" just about everything in the book is at least playable at the casual level. I have not played the new book yet (my wife lost her job which she worked on the weekend so I could play every week) but I played the index extensively and very few units felt like "wow these suck even for casual games".

As for playing your friend, I have not played Admech in a long long time as no one in my regular group played them. But they are a gun-line army for the most part, which I have played against many. Typically with those armies you want to get in their face early, and with lots of units. You can't let them focus fire on things by attacking piecemeal otherwise they will just annihilate you. Also those armies tend to not score primary well if you push early, and you can just build a big lead in primary. Chosen and terminators are great for this. Your new Forgefiend will be great for supporting fire, and killing those armigers.


As for the venomcrawlers, I always suggest those because you can usually find them pretty cheap due to sharing a spur with obliterators. In fact 2 x venomcrawlers and 4 x obliterators from two boxes is a pretty good deal even just from GW store. They are usually about mid-tier but pretty good at both shooting and CC, and if you buy the spur you get 4 obliterators which fluctuate between broken and b tier between editions/rules updates.

Hope this helps


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also post some pics of your conversions when they are done, I love seeing the creativity people do with CSM

 xeen wrote:

 bullisariuscowl wrote:
Update: I have purchased a forgefiend, terminators, and Chaos spawn.

That is a good pick up. I was actually thinking about this question of expanding an army the other day for a friend as well, and I would offer another piece of advice, at least with CSM. You should try to diversify your collection prior to prioritizing "meta" picks for this edition. I have been playing this game since second edition, and what is good and what is sh*t will change so often that it will make Tzeentch happy. Example, Lord Discordant was AWESOME in 9th edition with some combos. He is utter trash now. I am glad I own one because a. I can create a list to punch down if playing someone new, and b. he will be awesome again at some point. So if you plan on playing for the long haul, you should focus on getting diversity in your army with many different units. The good thing for CSM now, is while all picks are not "tournament competitive" just about everything in the book is at least playable at the casual level. I have not played the new book yet (my wife lost her job which she worked on the weekend so I could play every week) but I played the index extensively and very few units felt like "wow these suck even for casual games".

As for playing your friend, I have not played Admech in a long long time as no one in my regular group played them. But they are a gun-line army for the most part, which I have played against many. Typically with those armies you want to get in their face early, and with lots of units. You can't let them focus fire on things by attacking piecemeal otherwise they will just annihilate you. Also those armies tend to not score primary well if you push early, and you can just build a big lead in primary. Chosen and terminators are great for this. Your new Forgefiend will be great for supporting fire, and killing those armigers.


As for the venomcrawlers, I always suggest those because you can usually find them pretty cheap due to sharing a spur with obliterators. In fact 2 x venomcrawlers and 4 x obliterators from two boxes is a pretty good deal even just from GW store. They are usually about mid-tier but pretty good at both shooting and CC, and if you buy the spur you get 4 obliterators which fluctuate between broken and b tier between editions/rules updates.

Hope this helps


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also post some pics of your conversions when they are done, I love seeing the creativity people do with CSM

Wow, thanks for the reply, such a helpful one at that. Yeah, the meta I don’t care about, I fully agree with the sentiment of ‘what’s cool is always cool, so get what you like’ as opposed to the meta. I just want an excuse to buy some cool tanks for my clusterfeth of an iron warriors army. It’s great to know it was a good pick up, according to you. Spawn can probably tarp it his skitarii or leaders/vehicles for a turn or two, and FNP is always good. Although I might convert some havocs to be Possessed, with bionics and stuff. Terminators, well they will terminate, be tough, and give meta reason to use my land raider. The advice was great, I’ll be sure to be as merciless as possible. Out of everything I have, what would you recommend bringing to a 1k game? I’m not asking for you to build my list, but I’m having a hard time choosing. I definitely want to bring my land raider, termies, cultists and maybe spawn if possible. Helbrute would be a nice bring if he fits, point is, what should I build my list around? And if possible, it would be great if I could get some more pointers and maybe some help with my 1k list. Thanks for the help, and I promise to post pics of everything, IW will probably be my next p&m blog when I’m done with my blood angels

 bullisariuscowl wrote:

 xeen wrote:

 bullisariuscowl wrote:
Update: I have purchased a forgefiend, terminators, and Chaos spawn.

That is a good pick up. I was actually thinking about this question of expanding an army the other day for a friend as well, and I would offer another piece of advice, at least with CSM. You should try to diversify your collection prior to prioritizing "meta" picks for this edition. I have been playing this game since second edition, and what is good and what is sh*t will change so often that it will make Tzeentch happy. Example, Lord Discordant was AWESOME in 9th edition with some combos. He is utter trash now. I am glad I own one because a. I can create a list to punch down if playing someone new, and b. he will be awesome again at some point. So if you plan on playing for the long haul, you should focus on getting diversity in your army with many different units. The good thing for CSM now, is while all picks are not "tournament competitive" just about everything in the book is at least playable at the casual level. I have not played the new book yet (my wife lost her job which she worked on the weekend so I could play every week) but I played the index extensively and very few units felt like "wow these suck even for casual games".

As for playing your friend, I have not played Admech in a long long time as no one in my regular group played them. But they are a gun-line army for the most part, which I have played against many. Typically with those armies you want to get in their face early, and with lots of units. You can't let them focus fire on things by attacking piecemeal otherwise they will just annihilate you. Also those armies tend to not score primary well if you push early, and you can just build a big lead in primary. Chosen and terminators are great for this. Your new Forgefiend will be great for supporting fire, and killing those armigers.


As for the venomcrawlers, I always suggest those because you can usually find them pretty cheap due to sharing a spur with obliterators. In fact 2 x venomcrawlers and 4 x obliterators from two boxes is a pretty good deal even just from GW store. They are usually about mid-tier but pretty good at both shooting and CC, and if you buy the spur you get 4 obliterators which fluctuate between broken and b tier between editions/rules updates.

Hope this helps


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also post some pics of your conversions when they are done, I love seeing the creativity people do with CSM

Wow, thanks for the reply, such a helpful one at that. Yeah, the meta I don’t care about, I fully agree with the sentiment of ‘what’s cool is always cool, so get what you like’ as opposed to the meta. I just want an excuse to buy some cool tanks for my clusterfeth of an iron warriors army. It’s great to know it was a good pick up, according to you. Spawn can probably tarp it his skitarii or leaders/vehicles for a turn or two, and FNP is always good. Although I might convert some havocs to be Possessed, with bionics and stuff. Terminators, well they will terminate, be tough, and give meta reason to use my land raider. The advice was great, I’ll be sure to be as merciless as possible. Out of everything I have, what would you recommend bringing to a 1k game? I’m not asking for you to build my list, but I’m having a hard time choosing. I definitely want to bring my land raider, termies, cultists and maybe spawn if possible. Helbrute would be a nice bring if he fits, point is, what should I build my list around? And if possible, it would be great if I could get some more pointers and maybe some help with my 1k list. Thanks for the help, and I promise to post pics of everything, IW will probably be my next p&m blog when I’m done with my blood angels

Yea I have sold so many armies for Warhammer games it is crazy. I had a really cool iron warriors army with possessed that were more machine like, and a bio-mechanical daemon prince I converted myself which is one of only two things I ever sold that I highly regret selling (the other was my fully painted Armageddon Steel legion mechanized infantry company). The iron warriors look on possessed is a good one.

For your list, with the things you listed (terminators x5, land raider and cultists x 10) it is 475 so half your points. I would not bring spawn at 1000 points, they are more of a luxury pick and at a 1000 points you can't afford those kinds of picks. The land radier is also a bit weird at 1000 points as it will either be unkillable if you opponent doesn't bring enough AT, or a huge liability if he does. 1000 points in my opinion is not really balanced well, as the game is designed for 2000 points so that make list building a bit more difficult. But I would start with what you got there, then I would add probably add a Terminator lord or Sorcerer to lead your terminators, who at this points level are going to be your primary damage dealer. That is 570 (with lord).

So assuming you are using the fellhammer detachment for Iron Warriors, all of the strats can target pretty much anything so no need to really focus on particular units like in daemon forge. I would then bring your forgefiend, because a. you just bought it and I always love using new minis, and b. it is really good long range firepower, which your list needs a bit of. That is 760. To finish out the list based on what you own I would put in a rhino with 5 CC legionaries (you want to get in admech's face), and that leaves 75 points, perfect for putting the dark apostle in that unit with them to give them some more punch. 1000 points on the nose. If you use this list to go to 2000 I would probably expand with the hellbrute, spawn, add 5 more to the CC legionaries, make the dark apostle a lord instead, and then go from there.

At a 1000 I would not DS the terminators, but put them in the land raider. That is a big target with almost half your points, and if he is AT stacked it could be an issue, but at 1000 points you can't waste a turn with the terminators in reserve in my opinion. I would put that on a flank where it could move and deliver the terminators. The sorceror with re-roll charges would be good here (you can use him or the lord they are functionally the same points you save 5 on the sorcerer). I would put the rhino on the same side more toward center to flood whatever flank is preferable. At 1000 points you won't be able to cover the whole board with an elite army like CSM anyway, so I would overload a flank. Cultists stay back an hold home, Forgefiend in the middle blasting stuff. Just get to him as fast as possible with your melee units. The terminators should be a problem for him at 1000 points, and the land raider will be if he doesn't load up on AT. Good luck.

I hope this helps, let me know how you fare.

 xeen wrote:

 bullisariuscowl wrote:

 xeen wrote:

 bullisariuscowl wrote:
Update: I have purchased a forgefiend, terminators, and Chaos spawn.

That is a good pick up. I was actually thinking about this question of expanding an army the other day for a friend as well, and I would offer another piece of advice, at least with CSM. You should try to diversify your collection prior to prioritizing "meta" picks for this edition. I have been playing this game since second edition, and what is good and what is sh*t will change so often that it will make Tzeentch happy. Example, Lord Discordant was AWESOME in 9th edition with some combos. He is utter trash now. I am glad I own one because a. I can create a list to punch down if playing someone new, and b. he will be awesome again at some point. So if you plan on playing for the long haul, you should focus on getting diversity in your army with many different units. The good thing for CSM now, is while all picks are not "tournament competitive" just about everything in the book is at least playable at the casual level. I have not played the new book yet (my wife lost her job which she worked on the weekend so I could play every week) but I played the index extensively and very few units felt like "wow these suck even for casual games".

As for playing your friend, I have not played Admech in a long long time as no one in my regular group played them. But they are a gun-line army for the most part, which I have played against many. Typically with those armies you want to get in their face early, and with lots of units. You can't let them focus fire on things by attacking piecemeal otherwise they will just annihilate you. Also those armies tend to not score primary well if you push early, and you can just build a big lead in primary. Chosen and terminators are great for this. Your new Forgefiend will be great for supporting fire, and killing those armigers.


As for the venomcrawlers, I always suggest those because you can usually find them pretty cheap due to sharing a spur with obliterators. In fact 2 x venomcrawlers and 4 x obliterators from two boxes is a pretty good deal even just from GW store. They are usually about mid-tier but pretty good at both shooting and CC, and if you buy the spur you get 4 obliterators which fluctuate between broken and b tier between editions/rules updates.

Hope this helps


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also post some pics of your conversions when they are done, I love seeing the creativity people do with CSM

Wow, thanks for the reply, such a helpful one at that. Yeah, the meta I don’t care about, I fully agree with the sentiment of ‘what’s cool is always cool, so get what you like’ as opposed to the meta. I just want an excuse to buy some cool tanks for my clusterfeth of an iron warriors army. It’s great to know it was a good pick up, according to you. Spawn can probably tarp it his skitarii or leaders/vehicles for a turn or two, and FNP is always good. Although I might convert some havocs to be Possessed, with bionics and stuff. Terminators, well they will terminate, be tough, and give meta reason to use my land raider. The advice was great, I’ll be sure to be as merciless as possible. Out of everything I have, what would you recommend bringing to a 1k game? I’m not asking for you to build my list, but I’m having a hard time choosing. I definitely want to bring my land raider, termies, cultists and maybe spawn if possible. Helbrute would be a nice bring if he fits, point is, what should I build my list around? And if possible, it would be great if I could get some more pointers and maybe some help with my 1k list. Thanks for the help, and I promise to post pics of everything, IW will probably be my next p&m blog when I’m done with my blood angels

Yea I have sold so many armies for Warhammer games it is crazy. I had a really cool iron warriors army with possessed that were more machine like, and a bio-mechanical daemon prince I converted myself which is one of only two things I ever sold that I highly regret selling (the other was my fully painted Armageddon Steel legion mechanized infantry company). The iron warriors look on possessed is a good one.

For your list, with the things you listed (terminators x5, land raider and cultists x 10) it is 475 so half your points. I would not bring spawn at 1000 points, they are more of a luxury pick and at a 1000 points you can't afford those kinds of picks. The land radier is also a bit weird at 1000 points as it will either be unkillable if you opponent doesn't bring enough AT, or a huge liability if he does. 1000 points in my opinion is not really balanced well, as the game is designed for 2000 points so that make list building a bit more difficult. But I would start with what you got there, then I would add probably add a Terminator lord or Sorcerer to lead your terminators, who at this points level are going to be your primary damage dealer. That is 570 (with lord).

So assuming you are using the fellhammer detachment for Iron Warriors, all of the strats can target pretty much anything so no need to really focus on particular units like in daemon forge. I would then bring your forgefiend, because a. you just bought it and I always love using new minis, and b. it is really good long range firepower, which your list needs a bit of. That is 760. To finish out the list based on what you own I would put in a rhino with 5 CC legionaries (you want to get in admech's face), and that leaves 75 points, perfect for putting the dark apostle in that unit with them to give them some more punch. 1000 points on the nose. If you use this list to go to 2000 I would probably expand with the hellbrute, spawn, add 5 more to the CC legionaries, make the dark apostle a lord instead, and then go from there.

At a 1000 I would not DS the terminators, but put them in the land raider. That is a big target with almost half your points, and if he is AT stacked it could be an issue, but at 1000 points you can't waste a turn with the terminators in reserve in my opinion. I would put that on a flank where it could move and deliver the terminators. The sorceror with re-roll charges would be good here (you can use him or the lord they are functionally the same points you save 5 on the sorcerer). I would put the rhino on the same side more toward center to flood whatever flank is preferable. At 1000 points you won't be able to cover the whole board with an elite army like CSM anyway, so I would overload a flank. Cultists stay back an hold home, Forgefiend in the middle blasting stuff. Just get to him as fast as possible with your melee units. The terminators should be a problem for him at 1000 points, and the land raider will be if he doesn't load up on AT. Good luck.

I hope this helps, let me know how you fare.

So I've made the list, 1000 points, completely (thanks Xeen, that really satisfies my inner autist)
and here's a mock-up for now. I have not decided what detachment to use, I think your picks were pretty damn good and could be strong in many circumstances. My opponent used the Rad-Bombardment BS last time, and it fethed me up pretty early in the game. So I'm not sure what to use. I've only ever used the index Dark Pacts one, (Soulforged Warpack, I believe. Silly name) and Fellhammer looks decent, but I hear Renegade Raiders is apparently pretty good, So I might try it out. Which one is best suited for this situation? I wouldn't go this hard normally, I just want to make sure my whatsapp banter with Toaster about beating him comes true. Anyway, enough rambling, here it is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not sure if warlord should be Dark Apostle or Lord, the Raider will attract enough fire as is. And, is all the wargear options good? Probably going to go heavy flamer on the terminators, and should the double lightning claws be given to a terminator?

Yea renegade raiders is a good detachment. You could also go Vets as rerolls with that ability is better with less units on the table.

Your list should have three plasma on firgefiend not jaws. Also you want the legionnaires with chain swords. Make sure you take havoc launcher on rhino

Flamer is good for low T infantry which he will likely have.

 xeen wrote:
Yea renegade raiders is a good detachment. You could also go Vets as rerolls with that ability is better with less units on the table.

Your list should have three plasma on firgefiend not jaws. Also you want the legionnaires with chain swords. Make sure you take havoc launcher on rhino

Flamer is good for low T infantry which he will likely have.

So… which one to use here? Raiders/Soulforged/Fellhammer etc.

Also, I’m not List tailoring here am I ? I plan on using these guys more, just want to be sure

Thanks

I don't think you are list tailoring, as this list is pretty much an all comers list. I would use it either as Renegade Raiders or Veterans of the Long War of Pact Bound. Playing them as raiders is interesting as you could then just start the terminators on the board not in the LR due to being able too advance and shoot (and charge with the strat) and put the CC legionaries in the LR, then pick up something else for the Rhino, but at 75 points I don't know what that would be. You could also drop the dark apostle then you would have 150 and maybe bring flamer rubrics or a hellbrute. The down side to raiders is at 1000 points I believe there are less objectives so less opportunity for the -1 ap. Veterans could be good as all of the strats are pretty good, and with a small unit count, the Chaos oath of moment rule probably punches up a bit. It will help you LR deal with stuff with the Laser cannons and perhaps free up the forgefiend to shoot infantry with its really good 3 x blast weapons. Pact Bound is probably still the best over all detachment, as raiders does need a slightly skewed build to really get the most out of it. Slannesh for your legionaries, nurgle for the forgefiend, tzeentch for the terminators (to resurrect) and the LR (as required to transport them). They just throw out so much damage with 5+ crits, but I am quite tired of playing that detachment which is why I am not playing it. All the other detachments are either mediocare (the fellhammer and the terror one) or require very specific builds to be good (the rest). I think which detachment is really a personal choice, even with the list as built I think you could use any of those top three.

Im playing the game today. Wish me luck. I'm trying to manipulate him into my trap with banter and german soda, pactbound zealots is what I'm using

 bullisariuscowl wrote:
Im playing the game today. Wish me luck. I'm trying to manipulate him into my trap with banter and german soda, pactbound zealots is what I'm using

how did it go

I lost.
I will post some pics in the morning, and explain what went wrong


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Played another game today, went better

cool look forward to seeing that. Are you still at 1000 points? The game really balances better at 2000