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Hi all,

Sort of on the back the New Points thread discussing CSM Cultists and Kroot.

This fundamentally academic. I seem to paint at a glacial speed these days, so I can't see myself getting a new army together before 11th edition.

But that's perhaps in part due to a tendency to like horde armies - or at least armies with a significant amount of meat on the table.

So I guess the question is "what is the best horde army". Not necessarily I guess purely in terms of results - but also in being fun to play, aesthetics, whatever.

To a degree every faction can go wide. But I guess the question - in an OC defined world - is when a horde is a horde, rather than just MSU. Leaving aside whether its "any good", Marines can take say 6 Intercessor Squads and 6 Assault Intercessor squads, and that's 12 squads, with 60 models and 120 wounds for about 1000 points. That's a lot of squads to throw onto objectives, block, and deny deep strike etc. Admittedly, CSM can take 6 10 man Cultists and 6 Guardsmen squads for about 300 points less - but arguably these should be much easier to clear. With Stormlance you could be pretty fast (charge when advancing/falling back), so that issue seems to be covered. Is this a horde?

I guess the issue is synergy. I'd been wondering whether you could run "horde DE". Mass say Wyches, Wracks, maybe Warriors. Take 3 squads of Incubi, Mandrakes and a couple of Scourge+Ravagers for anti-tank etc (although this is getting expensive and anti-horde, so not sure its great). But the rules don't really give you anything for doing it - so it seems irrational versus the more traditional transport play. DE are arguably already very good at the objective game, so I'm not sure what you'd be gaining beyond the memes in having lots of "cheap" wyches running around on foot.

But its different when you look at factions which seems to get a dedicated horde detachment.

I can’t speak for the rules side, as I’ve not had much table time in 10th…

But if your issue is getting an army painted, tyranids can go really fast to a nice tabletop standard with contrast paints. No finicky belt buckles or random gear. Flesh, chitin, stabby bits. Jobs a good one.

And while I might not be up on all the mechanics, one of the core builds of nids is endless horde. So it’s not like you are taking a niche aspect and hopeing it’s not made invalid in the next edition. It might not be the best wat to win tournaments, but should be viable and supported at the FLGS level.

Horde marines no longer work, because of how objectives work in 10th, and to be honest even before the nerf the army was only really good in Team Tournaments, because as soon as it run in to a heavy shoting army it would fold.

IG are a very good army right now and it runs a ton models. Ad Mecha had a horde build too, but that thing cost like 2 normal armies and I don't think post points change it stil works.

I think Tyranids leveraging Hormagaunts and Termagants in the Invasion Fleet detachment are probably the best overall "horde" at the moment. They are fairly mobile (particularly the Hormagaunts, but Termagants have a reactive move), most of the detachment's stratagems can target multiple units (more valuable for hordes), they have easy access to replenishment (Endless Swarm & Terivgons), and both can punch up with the help of the detachment.

Hormagaunts in particular are actually fairly dangerous for 3+ save vehicles while benefiting from the Lethal Hits granted by the Invasion Fleet and especially with Adrenal Surge up. On average, a squad with Adrenal Surge will do 21 wounds to a vehicle, wherein their AP-1 on average should cause the vehicle to take 10 of those. That kills a Wardog and most transports on average and there is the potential for a second unit to do the same that turn.

Termagants aren't as powerful offensively, but they do bring a pair of Devastating Wound flamers for chip damage and they can fairly easily stack Sustained Hits and Lethal Hits on their main guns (can also get Ignores Cover and Rerolls from a Pyrovore or Exocrine respectively). I've mostly been using them to clear infantry while the Hormagaunts go for big things. Their reactive move can also be fairly useful, either withdrawing to make a charge harder or surging forward to contest an objective (or even take it outright, given the OC of the squad).

I'd definitely recommend Tyranids for ease of painting, and they look great as an army too. I've done my little guys in big batches to get them all done is a relative hurry. If I were painting something like Genestealer Cultists it would have taken me forever, having to deal with all their equipment and detailed variation. As an army Tyranids feel like of the more versatile ones as well. They seem to always have reasonable solutions to any given threat.

Spoilered for obnoxiously large image: Batch of 120 Termagants and then the overall painted collection as of a few years ago.

A bit more's been painted since then but I haven't gotten a pic yet.

Anyone know if the 2000 point 250 Kroot Hounds army was ever tested beyond the "wouldn't this be cool" stage?

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Anyone know if the 2000 point 250 Kroot Hounds army was ever tested beyond the "wouldn't this be cool" stage?

Well, as hounds aren't battle line units & thus limited to 30 max*, I doubt there'd be much reason to do so.

*unless there's a way to make them Battle line I don't know about.
But even then you'd top out at 60.

ccs wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Anyone know if the 2000 point 250 Kroot Hounds army was ever tested beyond the "wouldn't this be cool" stage?

Well, as hounds aren't battle line units & thus limited to 30 max*, I doubt there'd be much reason to do so.

*unless there's a way to make them Battle line I don't know about.
But even then you'd top out at 60.

I brought this fact up to the tau player who suggested this idea to me, and his reply was, "only if you play in an official game."

This is another reason to never listen to the vile Tau and their allies.

I'd have to say that Orks and Tyranids are THE horde armies of 40K. If sticking around, then Chaos Demons would be there as well.

SamusDrake wrote:
I'd have to say that Orks and Tyranids are THE horde armies of 40K. If sticking around, then Chaos Demons would be there as well.

If you stick to one god like I do, it's actually nigh-impossible to do full horde.

I run 60 Plaguebearers, and that's only a third of my 2k list.

Sorry, I worship Tzeentch and Blue Horrors are my friends.

I've found that my friends who play "horde" armies there are different groups:

The 'nids 'kids have their armies painted and ready to go very quickly. Very light on conversions, but a basic paint job goes a long way.

My ork playing friends have a garage of converted vehicles and have used enough platicard and green stuff to fill a 747... but haven't finished them... I think the Ork Meks are based on people I know.

Finally, the IG players I talk to are going vehicle heavy lately... and are anxiously awaiting some big change in their lists... I don't play IG anymore, so I'm not a good judge on these guys.

There are no GSC players for me to talk to... so I'm not even going to guess about them.

Hope this helps.