Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Cyel wrote:
Give me good, modern, elegant, engaging rules ...

Agreed.

Some "small kids" level plinker would dissuade me from getting on board.

I'd buy it just for the models if there wasn't already a super satisfying way to get just the models.

I'm just looking forward to seeing how it plays with the full scale models. Someone will adapt the rules right away to do so.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I'm just looking forward to seeing how it plays with the full scale models. Someone will adapt the rules right away to do so.

Seems to me the mixed scale of game elements might be an issue in that case. Like... will you use a 6 foot Pegasus?

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I'm just looking forward to seeing how it plays with the full scale models. Someone will adapt the rules right away to do so.

Seems to me the mixed scale of game elements might be an issue in that case. Like... will you use a 6 foot Pegasus?

Doesn't really matter on a hex grid. Just need a tall enough flight stand.

 LunarSol wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I'm just looking forward to seeing how it plays with the full scale models. Someone will adapt the rules right away to do so.

Seems to me the mixed scale of game elements might be an issue in that case. Like... will you use a 6 foot Pegasus?

Doesn't really matter on a hex grid. Just need a tall enough flight stand.

This. You literally only need to scale up the hex map, no rules adjustment or adaptation needed. The pre-painted Star Wars collectible blindpack miniatures game in 2003 had rules for using the 3.75" action figures and those rules were literally just "flip the included map to the larger grid size" because the moment everything is measured using grid or Hexes, it all scales.

chaos0xomega wrote:
theres an out of scale.... Albion? whatever the warship is. shown on the website.

It's the Archangel from Gundam SEED.

I've seen a lot of chatter about this, with some people thinking that it might even be a rival to 40K. I doubt that will be the case, as this looks more like a skirmish game than a platoon-sized engagement like 40K. But since we know virtually nothing about it, it's too early to start speculation along those lines. On the other hand, the presence of the Archangel means that there will be some bigger units, so who knows? Maybe the game will be capable of smoothly running battles with forty figures on a side (assuming you have a big enough hex map)?

Have to wait until some actual gameplay information gets released.

Speaking of which...

Actual gameplay information (including streamers doing playtest games) *has* been revealed about an upcoming Gundam TCG, which is apparently coming out at around the same time. And oddly enough, the cards for certain mobile suits (presumably custom hero suits) will have a Gundam Assemble figure packaged with them, with the apparent idea being that you can place the figure on top of your card when you play it in the TCG.

Why? Dunno. But they went to the trouble to do this, so...

Eumerin wrote:
with some people thinking that it might even be a rival to 40K

How can it kill 40k when Trench Crusade did that already!

The game from a glance looks to be more akin to WH Underworlds.

 Daba wrote:
The game from a glance looks to be more akin to WH Underworlds.

In fairness skirmish is how many wargames start out. It's MUCH easier to get people to invest in your new game if they can get started quickly. Even with a powerful IP behind it, having smaller games is a big boon toward getting people playing and hooked rather than having a big bumper amount of sales then seeing it fizzle out as no one really gets to game fast enough.

There was also the issue of gaming space in asian nations raised earlier in the thread which is also a valid consideration considering that's the home market for this game.


I suspect another aspect is that focusing on a more underworlds/skirmish scale means that they can go for all the big iconic leader models that will get fans hooked rather than lots of generic mechs.


Who knows, if it does well they might well expand to a wargame type set of rules with a higher model count; generic mechs alongside named hero mechs and more

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Eumerin wrote:

with some people thinking that it might even be a rival to 40K

How can it kill 40k when Trench Crusade did that already!

I did an actual laugh/snort, good work

Kill 40k?!

They need to get in line behind Warzone, Void, Vor the Maelstrom and AT-43!

Looking at how big GWs market share is in Asia, giving the people there an actual working game with a already popular IP, yes that can kill 40k in Asia

 kodos wrote:
Looking at how big GWs market share is in Asia, giving the people there an actual working game with a already popular IP, yes that can kill 40k in Asia

Again, though, it's not clear yet that this will directly compete with 40K, based on the number of figures involved. We won't really know until we see some actual gameplay or rules, which so far have not been so much as hinted at.

That actually surprises me a bit, given that the TCG is supposed to come out at the same time, and there are gameplay videos online of that.

Honestly I think we are going to see a game where each side has small handful of models, and that's about it. I will be pleasantly surprised otherwise.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Honestly I think we are going to see a game where each side has small handful of models, and that's about it. I will be pleasantly surprised otherwise.

I see a game where people are going to use their own gundam models to play, and just grab the rules.

I think it's a good idea for Bandai but using the wrong IP. Gundam is a narrative with a setting rather than a setting containing narratives. It has multiple timelines too and little inuniverse justification for crazy paint schemes. There will be little creativity encouraged officially either with painting, modelling or rules.

The first Gundam was an unexpected hit and thus the "one year war" really did basically exhaust the setting. Similar to how Star Wars was a narrative containing a setting where the story followed a major conflict in which the fate of everyone was involved and... it ended, the good guys won. Not to beat a dead horse for anyone on the internet but that was kind of problem for them making stories going forward. What was shocking was that they felt the need to revive the Empire because it's aesthetic was seen as so crucial and integral to the setting but again, was clearly destroyed at the end of the third film. (I don't care that the Imperial remnant stuff was invented years earlier in the books, hack authors writing tie-in novels for IPs the didn't create will never count) Not to mention, of course, the conflict with the Empire was the driving force of the story. (The Vong then become a parody of what I just said. "Oh look another evil force imperiling the whole galaxy! Oh look we defeated them and made peace now!" What do you do after that? See also the idiocy of "moving the 40k timeline forward".) The Mandalorian and Skeleton Crew are actually an example of them treating Star Wars as a setting for narratives but the latter they ran into the ground since it was in essence more of a limited series and they tied up the main story with Grogu before deciding to go back on all of it and the former doesn't seem to excite anyone after the Star Wars brand writ large has been run dry.

Bandai should instead look to the likes of 40k and it being built from the ground up to facilitate a table top wargame and creativity. They should make something like 30MM tabletop wargaming and come up with all kinds of reasons the pilots and factions would adorn their mechs with camo and heraldry or religious symbols. As well as make a setting which justifies unending and vast scale of warfare. Make the kits easy to kitbash.This way you have all the advantages of owning your own production and IP like GW and have a setting that works well with a wargame going forward unlike Gundam.

Meanwhile AMG don't own their own production or IP. And PP and their new owners don't ever seen to want to make the rebooted setting more open to creativity. Why not art of Khador carrying giant Orthodox-esque banners? See Trench Crusade for all that imagery.

Because if you don't have a hobby side all you have is the game and there is always the danger of a death spiral if people begin to stop playing it. The energy of the hobby side is actually what keeps competitive 40k going and safe.

Bandai has done unit- and base-specific camo schemes before, though. It might not have appeared much on the shows but they've got sourcebooks to pull from. A lot of mobile suits are funky things in bright, bold colours to start with and there's precedence in at least MSG for aces and specific squads to paint their mechs however they please. One of the most famous charcaters painted his military warmachine bright red! There's also a modelling hobby stretching back decades that absolutely encourages customisation and experimentation. I don't think we need to worry about the hobby side of things.

Because if you don't have a hobby side all you have is the game and there is always the danger of a death spiral if people begin to stop playing it.

If the Gundam game stops being popular, Bandai can always shrug and continue to make money hand over fist with gunpla and gadgets for their shows.
As for "creativity and customization", games like Malifaux which focus almost entirely on named characters with their own plotlines do just fine.

If anyone would be threatened, it surely would be Battletech which fills similar niche gameplay-wise?

Yeah, "compete with 40k" is what someone says when they think 40k is the only tabletop wargame around, its a quick and cringey shorthand for communicating that someone is uninformed and doesnt understand the market. This will not be competing with 40k and isnt meant to. It is very clearly targeting a different audience and market segment. Whether it sells well or picks up popularity, I havent the faintest. Ill for sure be picking up and collecting the minis though.

NightReconnaissance wrote:

Spoiler:

I think it's a good idea for Bandai but using the wrong IP. Gundam is a narrative with a setting rather than a setting containing narratives. It has multiple timelines too and little inuniverse justification for crazy paint schemes. There will be little creativity encouraged officially either with painting, modelling or rules.

The first Gundam was an unexpected hit and thus the "one year war" really did basically exhaust the setting. Similar to how Star Wars was a narrative containing a setting where the story followed a major conflict in which the fate of everyone was involved and... it ended, the good guys won. Not to beat a dead horse for anyone on the internet but that was kind of problem for them making stories going forward. What was shocking was that they felt the need to revive the Empire because it's aesthetic was seen as so crucial and integral to the setting but again, was clearly destroyed at the end of the third film. (I don't care that the Imperial remnant stuff was invented years earlier in the books, hack authors writing tie-in novels for IPs the didn't create will never count) Not to mention, of course, the conflict with the Empire was the driving force of the story. (The Vong then become a parody of what I just said. "Oh look another evil force imperiling the whole galaxy! Oh look we defeated them and made peace now!" What do you do after that? See also the idiocy of "moving the 40k timeline forward".) The Mandalorian and Skeleton Crew are actually an example of them treating Star Wars as a setting for narratives but the latter they ran into the ground since it was in essence more of a limited series and they tied up the main story with Grogu before deciding to go back on all of it and the former doesn't seem to excite anyone after the Star Wars brand writ large has been run dry.

Bandai should instead look to the likes of 40k and it being built from the ground up to facilitate a table top wargame and creativity. They should make something like 30MM tabletop wargaming and come up with all kinds of reasons the pilots and factions would adorn their mechs with camo and heraldry or religious symbols. As well as make a setting which justifies unending and vast scale of warfare. Make the kits easy to kitbash.This way you have all the advantages of owning your own production and IP like GW and have a setting that works well with a wargame going forward unlike Gundam.

Meanwhile AMG don't own their own production or IP. And PP and their new owners don't ever seen to want to make the rebooted setting more open to creativity. Why not art of Khador carrying giant Orthodox-esque banners? See Trench Crusade for all that imagery.

Because if you don't have a hobby side all you have is the game and there is always the danger of a death spiral if people begin to stop playing it. The energy of the hobby side is actually what keeps competitive 40k going and safe.

You seem to have a weird obsession with unnecessarily shoe-horning religious extremism and symbolism into every setting/IP/game....

I think I'll wait until we see a version with chibi Gundams...

A good.point, "killing 40k" is the mindset of a single pie that must be carved up.

When manga publishers entered the US in the 2000s and mainstream publishers put out young adult graphic novels in the 2010s they weren't looking to "kill Marvel or kill
DC" they looked to grow the pie.

And they succeeded in a way DC and Marvel never could. So now Scholastic ans Random House are the largest comic publishers by sales.

40k isn't just a game, more so the game doesn't matter at all as almost all people will mention anything but the rules for why they stick to 40k

It is a model building, model painting, model collecting hobby that started off with a game, with the biggest difference is that there is no gundam tabletop game and no popular 40k movies

Looking at certain regions, Gundam isn't set to kill 40k, but 40k was sent out to kill Gundam on the display model market.
Not everything is the USA, and while 40k is popular there with nothing else existing, it is the underdog in other regions (not necessarily well received, a colleague of mine from Asia thinks about 40k models as a joke, when the Imperial Knight is at the same price as a perfect grade Gundam)

And Bandai isn't releasing a game now to go after 40k in the USA, this is a offer for the countries where Gundam is already popular to cover the niche 40k currently has (offering rules for gaming)
Better price, better quality and a game to play

There are those who believe that the market must be dominated by 1 entity (or sometimes two) and that any firm to compete in a market MUST be the one dominant one or else its not worth competing. It's a monopoly viewpoint generated by the same economics that believes that profits must go up every single year without fail otherwise your firm is going to die.


In the end Bandai isn't in the wargame market; this might be their first step and who knows it might just be flash-pan game that comes out; does the rounds and then vanishes like many one-time projects. Or it launches but ends up being more a collector series than a game that's picked up.


And yeah Gundam isn't vast in the western markets so perhaps it gets a niche loyal following here and in Japan it gains a much bigger one.

Who knows, I very much doubt that they rae even trying to go for GW sized otherwise they'd be hitting the marketing WAY WAY more heavily.

Angronsrosycheeks wrote:

If anyone would be threatened, it surely would be Battletech which fills similar niche gameplay-wise?

Battletech ebbs and flows, but is nearly impossible to kill or harm. The setting is great, and the gameplay has been preserved essentially unchanged since it's launch, but it also has adapted and created new versions of itself that are aimed at a modern audience. It's the game you played a few times 30 years ago, then sat down and remembered the rules within 30 minutes.

The scale does sound similar- and that's a good thing. I hope they do something with elevation and flight, or possibly even some stunt cards, because Gundams should be bouncing all over the board and having weird energy surges.

I do enjoy AS, I am aware of Battletech's cockroach durability as a game, as well as it's recent rise in prominence. I'm not saying Gundam game will kill it, but it may cut into its growth. More popular IP, and no offense to Classic battletech, but I can't imagine the gameplay will be anything but more dynamic. That has the potential to drag away a lot of more casual players who settled on BT as the only mecha game in town before.

Why are we assuming that the rules/gameplay will actually be any good? The game is an excuse for Bandai to sling plastic, and bandai isnt particularly known for tabletop game design prowess

As long as their customer service is better than those morons at CGL it'll probably find some converts.

 Flinty wrote:
As long as their customer service is better than those morons at CGL it'll probably find some converts.

That’s an insult to morons everywhere! CGL needs to do a lot of work to climb back to even being referred to as merely morons… good luck to the Gundam game. I doubt it will be much more than a curiosity over here, though.

Bandai should instead look to the likes of 40k and it being built from the ground up

Wouldn't come with it's own built-in audience. Bandai is primarily a company that makes (mostly) animated TV shows and movies to sell merchandise. It's not going to create a brand new standalone IP to dive into a completely new market that it hasn't operated in before.

As far as customization goes, not only is there a tradition of ace suits that have their own custom paint schemes, but there are also TV series that are about mixing and matching from different gun pla kits to create a custom mobile suit design (and then taking that mobile suit design, and using it in a battle arena that unfortunately doesn't exist in real life). Purists might harp if you've got Amuro Rey piloting a Gundam that doesn't have his traditional white, blue, red, and yellow colors. But I don't think most people will care.

Unfortunately, mixing and matching parts isn't going to happen without a lot of work, doesn't fit with a miniatures game, and is a lot easier (and looks better) at the larger scales anyway.

One of the most famous charcaters painted his military warmachine bright red!

There were two Zeon aces that painted their mobile suits red. One was Char, obviously. The other was Johnny Ridden, whose scheme was a mix of red and black.



On another note...

By "compete with 40K", people can mean two things. The first is the style of game. The second is the quality of the figures - and their cost. Given that it's Bandai that we're talking about, the figures will almost certainly be good quality for their scale. And Bandai's figure prices tend to be pretty good.

Third, though not discussed as much, is the difficulty in putting the figures together. It used to be that you could take any pair of arms on a GW sprue, a random head, body, and pair of legs, and build a GW figure. Putting an infantryman together was quite easy. The contents of my Votann Boarding Party box are not like that, and it feels like it needs a matrix of which parts can be used together. Bandai's easier kits tend to put together quite easily. If the new Gundam figures are like that, then it could cause people to look less favorably at GW.