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Sure, but the only metric that is not our individual opinions is the box office.

However, the "industry" seems to put a lot of emphasis not just on box office, but opening weekend take. That makes what you describe even worse IMHO.

 Easy E wrote:
However, the "industry" seems to put a lot of emphasis not just on box office, but opening weekend take.

Surely multinational corporations can't be primarily focused on making money? Don't know about art and the embiggening of a man's soul?

 Easy E wrote:
Sure, but the only metric that is not our individual opinions is the box office.

However, the "industry" seems to put a lot of emphasis not just on box office, but opening weekend take. That makes what you describe even worse IMHO.

The only metric that matters to us is our individual opinion. People would be far better off experiencing more things and forming their own opinions. The internet would be a better place if "I haven't seen it and don't have an opinion" was a reasonable response. Wringing hands over corporate profit margins does absolutely nothing for us. My favorite eras in filmmaking were the ones where the only thing I cared about was finding weird films I liked that often didn't make a lot of money. Film quality and profits have almost never aligned anyway. Most of my favorite films are not part of a franchise and to a degree, part of what I enjoyed about M&G is that I don't actually care if we get more of it.

And I agree. The industry increasingly started buying into the opening weekend hype, mostly as a way of taking a bigger cut of the profits from theaters. Short term it did wonders but we're seeing how damaging that decision has become to the industry as a whole. With the streaming wars not being the infinite profit gold mine it was hyped up to be, we're seeing an institution trying to get back an infrastructure they pawned away. Anyone still looking at opening weekend as the primary means of determining whether a project was worth the investment has learned nothing.

If there's any example of this worth looking into its the collapse of Warner Bros. That studio was built on financial failures that build big payouts. They were THE studio to go to if you wanted to make an ambitious, risky film and were happy to lose money as long as you were willing to come back and make a big crowd pleaser in return. They built this incredible collection of talent by losing money on their weird ideas and winning over audiences with films that built a following over time and then they burned it all to the ground trying to get BvS to give them the kind of payday that the MCU got out of Avengers. It's a sick system and particularly frustrating to me, because at the end of the day, my enjoyment of the Avatar franchise has absolutely nothing to do with its box office take.

If I like a movie, I want it to do well so that the people who made a good movie get hired to make more good movies.

Also, box office is one of the few ways to measure the cultural impact of a film, at least in the relative short term. Opening weekend measures hype, whether due to marketing, reviews, anticipation for the subject, or cultural relevance. It’s important because the studios deliberately destroyed the secondary market and the long term profitability for movies so that now they make almost all the money they’re going to make in theaters, and most of that has to be made in the opening weekend unless the film has fantastic word of mouth.

For those of us who care about entertainment, it’s enlightening to see what flies with a general audience and what doesn’t, what properties or genres have a bright future and which ones don’t. Learning about WOM hits is the best way currently to find out about good movies we would have missed, since the rental market is pretty much destroyed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Easy E wrote:
Sure, but the only metric that is not our individual opinions is the box office.
take.

The idea that everyone has the time or awareness to form individual opinions about every movie, especially movies outside their comfort zone, is bizarre. Reviews are limited. Word of mouth is generally limited to your friend group and their taste. Following box office gives another point of reference, especially for movies that will have a large impact on popular culture.


If he was trying to imply we only like movies due to their box office, that’s backwards.

There’s also marketing and merch.

Consider the Terrifier films.

Now, the first one did incredibly well. Teeny budget of around $55k (not a typo!) and brought in $421m.

But there’s also like….loads of merch themed around Art the Clown.

Number two had a much larger budget of $250k, and brought in $15.8m

Number three was $3m for $90m.

But again? Moichendising, as Yoghurt might say.

And it’s all going to be part of the studios accounting,

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
If I like a movie, I want it to do well so that the people who made a good movie get hired to make more good movies.

Also, box office is one of the few ways to measure the cultural impact of a film, at least in the relative short term. Opening weekend measures hype, whether due to marketing, reviews, anticipation for the subject, or cultural relevance. It’s important because the studios deliberately destroyed the secondary market and the long term profitability for movies so that now they make almost all the money they’re going to make in theaters, and most of that has to be made in the opening weekend unless the film has fantastic word of mouth.

For those of us who care about entertainment, it’s enlightening to see what flies with a general audience and what doesn’t, what properties or genres have a bright future and which ones don’t. Learning about WOM hits is the best way currently to find out about good movies we would have missed, since the rental market is pretty much destroyed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Easy E wrote:
Sure, but the only metric that is not our individual opinions is the box office.
take.

The idea that everyone has the time or awareness to form individual opinions about every movie, especially movies outside their comfort zone, is bizarre. Reviews are limited. Word of mouth is generally limited to your friend group and their taste. Following box office gives another point of reference, especially for movies that will have a large impact on popular culture.


If he was trying to imply we only like movies due to their box office, that’s backwards.

That's not my point at all. My point is no one really needs to have an opinion on a movie they haven't seen. It's totally okay to just.... not know. It's okay to have not seen it. It's okay to not have an opinion on it. This need to have an opinion of things we haven't experienced isn't healthy and lets others shape our opinions in really unhealthy ways.

As for box office revenue; it is, as you said a measure of hype, which if you're only going to take into account opening weekend speaks less about the quality of the movie and more about the quality of its marketing. We are defining a movie's quality by how positive our opinions were shaped towards it prior to seeing it. This isn't a healthy ecosystem for anything to grow and the only real way out of it is to focus on experiencing things for ourselves.

Are you saying people shouldn’t have opinions on films they haven’t seen, even when they have been subjected to all kinds of marketing or read the reviews and synopses?

As for opening weekend, we’re mostly in agreement. That’s what makes Obsession’s run so interesting, or the low opening for a Star Wars feel like an indication of a pop culture change, the Backrooms was projected to make half what it ended up making, demonstrating how detached the standard measures of cultural relevance are from the youth. It also has surprising legs so far, which means it’s resonating with casual audiences even while a lot of the super fans seem to have rejected it. Michael continues to make lots of money week after week, which seems bizarre in a culture that oretty much erased him as a monster. There’s a lot of interesting insight to be found.

I don’t think that is what he said. I think LunarSol was agreeing with you on the point that not everyone has to have an opinion about everything all the time.

I do not disagree with you LunarSol. I wish more people saw more movies, a wider variety and made their own opinions about them. I would love to discuss movies with a ton of people with solid, well-thought out opinions that make me reconsider what I epxerienced or felt during the film.

Just like everyone should play a wide variety of TTRPGs at least once and pick their favorite, and everyone should try out Miniature games other than GW ones and play the ones they like.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Are you saying people shouldn’t have opinions on films they haven’t seen, even when they have been subjected to all kinds of marketing or read the reviews and synopses?

I'm saying that people need to better separate their opinions of a film from those of the marketing. It's something I'm as guilty of as anyone and something I've been trying to do a better job with. Recognizing the things I have a real opinion of and when I've been given an opinion by other people.

I actually don't even find box office results uninteresting, I just resent them being used as a measure of film quality when the two have almost never had any real relation with one another. In general I just don't care for pitting films against one another because films are generally at their best when a wide variety of them are serving a diverse audience. The push to focus the industry around a single weekend winner really hasn't been an improvement for anyone.

 LunarSol wrote:
The push to focus the industry around a single weekend winner really hasn't been an improvement for anyone.

I think we can all agree on that!

 LunarSol wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Are you saying people shouldn’t have opinions on films they haven’t seen, even when they have been subjected to all kinds of marketing or read the reviews and synopses?

I'm saying that people need to better separate their opinions of a film from those of the marketing. It's something I'm as guilty of as anyone and something I've been trying to do a better job with. Recognizing the things I have a real opinion of and when I've been given an opinion by other people.

I actually don't even find box office results uninteresting, I just resent them being used as a measure of film quality when the two have almost never had any real relation with one another. In general I just don't care for pitting films against one another because films are generally at their best when a wide variety of them are serving a diverse audience. The push to focus the industry around a single weekend winner really hasn't been an improvement for anyone.

I’m going to echo this, kinda. Certainly in a more blunt way.

I’m usually interested in the opinions of others. But I genuinely don’t actually care about the opinions of others. Kinda. Within reason.

I’m always up for discussion, provided it’s mutually informed and respectful. As in? Provided you’ve actually watched a film, I’m happy to bounce one another’s opinions across the metaphorical field for sake of hopefully interesting, ideally thought provoking conversation.

I don’t expect let alone demand to change anyone’s take on a given film. But I do like my own take and opinion being challenged, as it all at least helps me better understand how I came to my own view.

Where my tolerance is entirely absent, and I’m happy to say it’s not happened on Dakka for a good while now, is when someone only posts second, third, maybe even fourth hand opinions. They’re usually easy to spot, as they make claims about the film which those that’ve seen it know aren’t true. Including criticising scenes which simply don’t exist.

Now. Don’t get me wrong. There is probably some at least mild hypocrisy on my own behalf here. I’m sure people know my own prejudices when it comes to specific actors and/or directors. But at least I don’t pretend to have seen something I’ve no intention of paying to watch due to the presence of the aforementioned.

From there? I may yet watch it when it’s free on Streaming. For instance? Suicide Squad (utter, utter crap) and Tron Arse (pointless, uninteresting and simply adding a lightweight but very stinky foamy whippy topping of turd to the previous cable that was Tron Legacy*).

And whilst I won’t pretend I can effortlessly rise above my prejudice? I know I’m being honest. Even giving credit where credit** is due.

*Not you, Michael Sheen. Your digital Bowie Nightclub Owner was effing amazing. You too, Daft Punk

**See above. Because some turds at least have a tasty looking nut in them.

In an unusual move the AMC theater near me is splitting the big Dolby digital screen into day and night with Masters of the Universe only showing before Matinee time and Scary Movie 6 after. I would think that would have some effect on the box office if AMC is doing this in multiple places, but it might just be this one.

*edit - I got lost *

I'm guessing that was meant for the upcoming movies thread?

I might have got lost

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Tron Arse (pointless, uninteresting and simply adding a lightweight but very stinky foamy whippy topping of turd to the previous cable that was Tron Legacy*).

*Not you, Michael Sheen. Your digital Bowie Nightclub Owner was effing amazing. You too, Daft Punk

I fear your mistake here was judging the Daft Punk music video as if it was a film. Should judge like with like