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 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Core rules up for download now:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/nhqt9wx3/new40k-rules-download-the-free-core-rules-now/

Give me the meat with those bones you cowards, I want my points values.

Billicus wrote:
I really really hope the "Sisters Cavalry" is just bikes or something and not another stupid flanderized walking pulpit thing

SoB entering their horse girl era.

It might not be walking pulpits. It could be flying cyber unicorn/pegasi/pony seraphim. So many ways they could flanderize things.

One thing we can bet on; it will not be normal.

Billicus wrote:
I really really hope the "Sisters Cavalry" is just bikes or something and not another stupid flanderized walking pulpit thing

We were joking at our gaming club that it'll be centaur power armour (like the Interex had) - but will there a gun on the back or another sister riding them?

 Nevelon wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Interesting, I wonder what form the Venerable Dread will take.

Same as the current kit, or Redemptor?

I wonder then if the current Venerable will be kicked down into Heresy

I could see them going either way. The old ven dread kit was amazing, with a huge amount of options to customize its look. Plus gear options. If they make a version of that on the redemptor chassis, it would be awesome.

Or if they make a new version of the classic angry washing machine and keep the spirit of the old, that would also be cool.

I need a 3rd dread for my company so am good with either. As long as they keep the stubbers off of it. Those things are why the Brutalis is dead to me.

Saw those stubber barrels in half!
If they do them sized as redemptor this would be ideal for some serious kit bashing dread projects.
Massive heavy flamer for my Salamanders please!

I would love to see SoB on hybrid DKK horses with Mechanicus-designed wings.

And claws.

And maybe a horn here and there.

Core rules feel weird to read, but I think they've written stuff with a much more robust skeleton for just generally tightening up various rules interactions

New Nobz will have a hard time coming close to the current kit, but a Kill Team release could work without losing all the options.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Core rules feel weird to read, but I think they've written stuff with a much more robust skeleton for just generally tightening up various rules interactions

They need to tighten up those coherency rules so the shenanigans that the 100% legally coherent unit of 7 at the back and 2 up at the extreme of "within 9 inches" creates are eliminated.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Core rules feel weird to read, but I think they've written stuff with a much more robust skeleton for just generally tightening up various rules interactions

They need to tighten up those coherency rules so the shenanigans that the 100% legally coherent unit of 7 at the back and 2 up at the extreme of "within 9 inches" creates are eliminated.

You still need the 2" chain, I don't see any issue?

 kirotheavenger wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Core rules feel weird to read, but I think they've written stuff with a much more robust skeleton for just generally tightening up various rules interactions

They need to tighten up those coherency rules so the shenanigans that the 100% legally coherent unit of 7 at the back and 2 up at the extreme of "within 9 inches" creates are eliminated.

You still need the 2" chain, I don't see any issue?

It doesn't say you do need a chain, looking back, 10th doesn't either.

Dudeface wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Core rules feel weird to read, but I think they've written stuff with a much more robust skeleton for just generally tightening up various rules interactions

They need to tighten up those coherency rules so the shenanigans that the 100% legally coherent unit of 7 at the back and 2 up at the extreme of "within 9 inches" creates are eliminated.

You still need the 2" chain, I don't see any issue?

It doesn't say you do need a chain, looking back, 10th doesn't either.

Oh, huh yeah I see.
I feel like that's a big miss lol

I like that you can't deep strike into your opponen't deployment zone before Turn 3.

Also I found the mortal wounds wording odd in that it no longer explicitly says you don't get a save, it just doesn't mention saves at all and just says the model loses 1 Wound.

 kirotheavenger wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Core rules feel weird to read, but I think they've written stuff with a much more robust skeleton for just generally tightening up various rules interactions

They need to tighten up those coherency rules so the shenanigans that the 100% legally coherent unit of 7 at the back and 2 up at the extreme of "within 9 inches" creates are eliminated.

You still need the 2" chain, I don't see any issue?

You don't need a chain. Each model has to be within 2" of ONE other model and within 9" of every other model. 2 models hanging out alone away from their buddies is 100% legal coherency.

Edit: ninja'd

 Platuan4th wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Core rules feel weird to read, but I think they've written stuff with a much more robust skeleton for just generally tightening up various rules interactions

They need to tighten up those coherency rules so the shenanigans that the 100% legally coherent unit of 7 at the back and 2 up at the extreme of "within 9 inches" creates are eliminated.

You still need the 2" chain, I don't see any issue?

You don't need a chain. Each model has to be within 2" of ONE other model and within 9" of every other model. 2 models hanging out alone away from their buddies is 100% legal coherency.

Edit: ninja'd

that sounds like either a pretty huge oversight they missed, or a radical shift.

Wayniac wrote:
I like that you can't deep strike into your opponen't deployment zone before Turn 3.

Also I found the mortal wounds wording odd in that it no longer explicitly says you don't get a save, it just doesn't mention saves at all and just says the model loses 1 Wound.

Deepstrike is a special rule/keyword that allows you to deploy anywhere on the table not within 8" of the enemy - including in the enemy deployment zone.

The "not in the enemy DZ" thing is for arriving normally from strategic reserves (IE 'walking on').

 kirotheavenger wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
I like that you can't deep strike into your opponen't deployment zone before Turn 3.

Also I found the mortal wounds wording odd in that it no longer explicitly says you don't get a save, it just doesn't mention saves at all and just says the model loses 1 Wound.

Deepstrike is a special rule/keyword that allows you to deploy anywhere on the table not within 8" of the enemy - including in the enemy deployment zone.

The "not in the enemy DZ" thing is for arriving normally from strategic reserves (IE 'walking on').

Oooh totally missed that. I'm so used to universally saying "Deep Strike" for any kind of reserves that I forgot they actually differentiate now.

Aircraft rules seem... interesting
You now just deploy from strategic reserves every turn and are immune to melee from ground troops.
But zero penalty for targeting them at all.

How viable is my Tau Barracuda going to be? Or is it going to be 7000 points so GW doesn't have to bother pretending to balance it?

But also I don't see any rules about what to do when your unit/base is bigger than the 6" Ingress range. So I guess until an FAQ things like this (notably the superheavy aircraft) are just impossible to field? Unless player uses a different base.

Wayniac wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Core rules feel weird to read, but I think they've written stuff with a much more robust skeleton for just generally tightening up various rules interactions

They need to tighten up those coherency rules so the shenanigans that the 100% legally coherent unit of 7 at the back and 2 up at the extreme of "within 9 inches" creates are eliminated.

You still need the 2" chain, I don't see any issue?

You don't need a chain. Each model has to be within 2" of ONE other model and within 9" of every other model. 2 models hanging out alone away from their buddies is 100% legal coherency.

Edit: ninja'd

that sounds like either a pretty huge oversight they missed, or a radical shift.

It's a historical oversight by everyone. Even in 10th its must be within 2" of another model, 2 models if the unit is 10 or more then says the unit must "move as a group" which is never defined.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Aircraft rules seem... interesting
You now just deploy from strategic reserves every turn and are immune to melee from ground troops.
But zero penalty for targeting them at all.

How viable is my Tau Barracuda going to be? Or is it going to be 7000 points so GW doesn't have to bother pretending to balance it?

Anything bigger than that won't fit. Currently no overspill rule so a tigershark/thunderhawk/baneblade don't fit to come out of reserves.

There is a "digital day 1 expansion" to follow though.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Aircraft rules seem... interesting
You now just deploy from strategic reserves every turn and are immune to melee from ground troops.
But zero penalty for targeting them at all.

How viable is my Tau Barracuda going to be? Or is it going to be 7000 points so GW doesn't have to bother pretending to balance it?

But also I don't see any rules about what to do when your unit/base is bigger than the 6" Ingress range. So I guess until an FAQ things like this (notably the superheavy aircraft) are just impossible to field? Unless player uses a different base.

The various bomb run abilities (doing mortal wounds to something you moved over) cease to work at all and the Hover keyword is meaningless on aircraft even though a ton currently have it.

There's going to need to be a lot of errata to make them all work.

I'd guess that most of the current Hover aircraft like Corvus Blackstars, Valkyries, Stormtalons, etc. will just become vehicles with Hover and the aircraft rules will be for stuff like the Tau, Ork and Eldar planes (which would probably all need to gain Deep Strike to work well).

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Interesting, I wonder what form the Venerable Dread will take.

Same as the current kit, or Redemptor?

Did they fix the "burns up the interred Marine" aspect of the Rdemptor at some point?

If not, going to be a wee bit tricky for anyone to be a Venerable Redemptor Dreadnought...

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Aircraft rules seem... interesting
You now just deploy from strategic reserves every turn and are immune to melee from ground troops.
But zero penalty for targeting them at all.

...no restriction on Torrent weapons hitting them?

 Dysartes wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Interesting, I wonder what form the Venerable Dread will take.

Same as the current kit, or Redemptor?

Did they fix the "burns up the interred Marine" aspect of the Rdemptor at some point?

Yeah they abandoned that in 9th IIRC, because it was stupid. I think it was around the same time they did the "Guilliman found out the guys in charge of the timeline messed up and it really still is the 41st millenium" and "Indomitus Crusade didn't actually last 100 years" stuff.

Wayniac wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Interesting, I wonder what form the Venerable Dread will take.

Same as the current kit, or Redemptor?

Did they fix the "burns up the interred Marine" aspect of the Rdemptor at some point?

Yeah they abandoned that in 9th IIRC, because it was stupid.

Stupid, yes, but it did help differentiate the technology from the more reliable classic Dreadnougt chassis.

 Dysartes wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Interesting, I wonder what form the Venerable Dread will take.

Same as the current kit, or Redemptor?

Did they fix the "burns up the interred Marine" aspect of the Rdemptor at some point?

Yeah they abandoned that in 9th IIRC, because it was stupid.

Stupid, yes, but it did help differentiate the technology from the more reliable classic Dreadnougt chassis.

Also a bit of a callback to Leviathans that notably either burn out their pilots or drive them insane due to neural overload.

 Dysartes wrote:

Stupid, yes, but it did help differentiate the technology from the more reliable classic Dreadnougt chassis.

It went the way of the Rubicon Primaris death rate. Can't have the shiny new Marine toys having downsides now can we?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/l8mt72x5/new40k-decide-the-fate-of-hive-death-mire/

GW running a global campaign if you preorder Armageddon.

Hard to get excited for another global campaign when they completely retconned the last one...

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Interesting, I wonder what form the Venerable Dread will take.

Same as the current kit, or Redemptor?

Did they fix the "burns up the interred Marine" aspect of the Rdemptor at some point?

Yeah they abandoned that in 9th IIRC, because it was stupid.

Stupid, yes, but it did help differentiate the technology from the more reliable classic Dreadnougt chassis.

Also a bit of a callback to Leviathans that notably either burn out their pilots or drive them insane due to neural overload.

Redemptors burning out their pilots was 100% only a problem to "semi-new" people who knew enough lore for it to stand out but not so much that they had heard of the Leviathan. A bell curve issue, basically.

Similar to Primaris hover tanks. Some people think they look ugly (totally fair) but some are not content to let their opinions be opinions and insisted that Primaris hovertanks are lorebreaking (they are absolutely not, the Imperium is full of hovertech, from tiny servo-skulls to ubiquitous civilian hovercars on civilised worlds).

GW's photos of the tanks do such a bad job of showing them off. I hate them for years before they started showing up on tables on the regular and realized they look dramatically better from any angle other than the one GW uses.

 Dysartes wrote:

Stupid, yes, but it did help differentiate the technology from the more reliable classic Dreadnougt chassis.

There is no need to differentiate when the redemptors are the only dreads the marines have. Just like there is no need to differentiate primaris from the minimarines when all marines are primaris.

Redemptors burning up their pilots was fine, the "rubicon primaris" was sort of a gak idea from the get-go and just an excuse to sell us Marneus Calgar and the like again, so that having a high mortality rate was fine. The thing I really didn't like was the "Primaris Blood Angels don't have the normal flaws" bit, I mean what the hell? That was a good one to retcon.

I don't think that was retconned. It was just explained that it took some time for the flaws to surface.

Primaris still cover some flaws. For example, they made it possible for Space Wolves to have successors, something that seemed impossible before (for unknown reasons, it could have been a literal curse for all we know).

Wayniac wrote:
I like that you can't deep strike into your opponen't deployment zone before Turn 3.

Also I found the mortal wounds wording odd in that it no longer explicitly says you don't get a save, it just doesn't mention saves at all and just says the model loses 1 Wound.

Doesn't it say the opposite for Deep Strike?

DEEP STRIKE 24.09
There are many ways by which to deploy troops to the field of battle including tunnels, teleportation devices and other esoteric means of transportation.
Each time this unit makes an ingress move (20.04), if every model in this unit has this ability, it can be set up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 8" horizontally from all enemy units, even if that is within your opponent’s deployment zone.