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What’s your opinion on AI generated music? Most of internet frown upon it.
There is loads of it automatic singer, grimdark tavern, the vox skull tales, nerdburglers.

I must say that I’ve filled my playlist with it.
I’m not ashamed I like AI music!

Have you got any other great artists?

Nay, all AI is slop

Nay.

Nay nay nay.

So much nay, you’d think the Mongol Hordes were smashing up your data centre.

Art is a fundamental part of the human experience. It’s something intrinsic and unique to us. Art, be it audio or visual or a mix of the two, conveys something about that person’s life, their experiences, or concepts they want to share and explore with other humans.

Get your god damned machines out of our art. It has no place here. At all. It will be the death of innovation. Because it creates feth all. Just copies and rehashes and steals bits and pieces from existing works. All without paying a fething penny to the originator.

ByggareBob wrote:
What’s your opinion on AI generated music? Most of internet frown upon it.
There is loads of it automatic singer, grimdark tavern, the vox skull tales, nerdburglers.

I must say that I’ve filled my playlist with it.
I’m not ashamed I like AI music!

Have you got any other great artists?

By definition, you haven't heard any great artists.

A galactic-scale Nay, and a pox on these "creators".

I quite like Endless Taverns, especially the Nurgle-themed ones. They're an interesting novelty but I find a lot of the time things start sounding samey. I've used Suno a few times to make tracks (Made some vampire-themed nightclub tracks for when I was GMing Vampire: The Masquerade) and was pleased with the results.

I don't have a visceral aversion to them but I also don't love them just because they're AI, they're like anything else, some I like, some I don't.

Yay and also Nay.

I have been enjoying some psychedelic rock, the instrumentals are very enjoyable. The lyrics are like a fever dream.

Which reminded me of Monster Magnet, their songs are something like a wizard throwing a party and after a while it becomes a cult.

Not all of it is that clever. I was served some "swamp-rock" which sounds like a a reimagined movie soundtrack but too commercial for me to really enjoy. It's not bad just not fantastic.

One of the positives about AI music, as I was told, and it could be wrong, is that ai music cannot be copyrighted. So clip what you like and do what ever you want with it.* ( Interesting if true.)

I don't love AI music but it can have it's place. And if it's trash then tell the creators it's trash.
I am not sure how much human involvement goes into generating these tracks.

Nothing I've heard will make my top 10 list. Mostly middle of the pack.

I don't see it replacing real bands ever.

If ai cannot commit seppuku then ai cannot create art.


* I draw off and on and have for years. I've done art from my groups D&D game sessions from time to time. The thought occurred to me that some Scooby Doo style animation would work really well with clip'd ai music.

There is a lot of AI "music" I wont touch with someone else's 10 foot pole. The 40K songs for example. It raises my blood pressure too much and not in a good way.


One problem I have with this stuff, the ai music, is that I feel like I am slipping into Alzheimer's or senile dementia because you will hear something that might be familiar but then it's all wrong. Like a really bad cover band.
Another stand out was by Skyebrows. The Elon's musk song. There's a video. The lyrics were clever. One bit was about Elon buying the sun. Which I found completely silly. I would sell him the sun. But the taxes... Yikes !

The nest closest thing that was entertaining, a song made from a comment section under a video about BBQ ribs. It was quite funny but aside from turning that into music I don't really feel like that qualifies as AI music as ,presumably, people left all of the comments used in that song.

In the end...

All bots must die.

I keep reminding myself of roughly when AI started so I can find music on youtube that's older.

Maybe AI music can "have its place" but right now its invading the place of real music. That drives out the potential for SO many creative people getting started. All those new musicians; new groups and bands that are now drowned in a sea of rehashed tunes done by AI.
The fact that finding new talent is going to be insanely hard is a huge blow; furthermore what monetizing there is - which might be just enough for many to keep a hobby going and so forth (the vast majority never make mega-bucks) is now diluted as well by AI.

That means the next generations of rising talent will end up working in supermarkets with their works hidden in a sea of AI rehashes.

One of the best things I've seen recently was a video about poisoning data. The video talks about a site that shared high quality flac files. "They", who ever it is that is training AI on music, has been using that site to, you guessed it, training their AI. Some people putting up files have been doctoring them in various ways. One guy replaced the singer with Homer Simpson for an entire album but never changed the meta data. Another person added more noise that it inaudible to the human ear but is a big block of data obscuring the actual song in data form. I'm all for it myself.

I don't really know how the new artists are going to compete. The world is just different now. The song by MC Front a lot comes to mind. The gist is that he isn't in the music business he's in the T shirt business, "go buy merch".

Not to mention all the marketing they will have to do for them selves.

Thank good ness for band camp I guess.

At least they can have live shows and even stream them now that that's a thing.

Music, like with all art is about soul and feeling, which AI has absolutely nothing of.

I think of some of the greatest songs of all time and the talent and effort that has gone into them. The power behind music and how it has shaped the world.

I think of historic folk songs that have conserved little snippets of every day life from hundreds of years ago.

It's a miserable state of affairs to be even considering AI music.

It's a hard nay from me, other than perhaps AI covers of existing music (like the soundtrack from Donkey Kong Country done in synthwave or something). And even then, I prefer it when a real person goes and puts the work in to make something truly special.

So, MDG, the question becomes thus...

Would you rather listen to 24 hours straight of AI music or 24 hours straight of Jared Leto's 40 Seconds to Mars?

Just this weekend, I went to my local Metal/Alternative Bar. They had bands on all the long weekend.

Sunday was experimental night. Well. Day. It’s kicked off at 4pm.

First band? You could see what they were trying, but I think the setup let them down. Drummer was using multiple mics and playing closer or further to a given one. But, space too small so the effect of it bouncing around didn’t work. Enjoyed it well enough.

Second band? Wake The Man. Synth Fantasy with a chap playing a Flute. Dakkanauts of a similar vintage would be put in mind of Clannad, specifically their theme to Robin of Sherwood. I loved it, and my Dad would’ve loved it. Top notch stuff, and not something that’s easy to find in the wild.

Third? Jimmy No Shoes. I didn’t get it. At all. All electronic noise. Was like being subject to your a-hole neighbour’s car alarm. We left at that point. Wee bit earlier because we didn’t want to subject ourselves to it. But also because it was dinner time and we were hungry.

AI music is a direct threat to that experience, and those venues. It will throttle the creative arts.

The alternative scene already struggles with an entirely indifferent radio and tv landscape that favours bland, banal mass produced tripe. It doesn’t need some tosser with internet access making things even worse.

Oh I’m sure AI has some place in the workplace. But we need to stop making it to replace humans and the human experience.

A Nay in the strongest terms possible.


I am totally against "AI" in any artistic capacity. Emphatically so. Vehemently even.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
So, MDG, the question becomes thus...

Would you rather listen to 24 hours straight of AI music or 24 hours straight of Jared Leto's 40 Seconds to Mars?

Oh that's an easy answer, and it's Leto's band all the way.

Reason being, the band (and thus the band members) are physical things that I could if I so choose, go and view in the flesh and blood. And therein lies the advantage over AI music. I can go and see 30STM and am able to boo and heckle them and again, if I so choose, throw things at them. Like a shoe.
I can't do that with AI music or people who make AI music.

 Dysartes wrote:

ByggareBob wrote:


Have you got any other great artists?

By definition, you haven't heard any great artists.

A galactic-scale Nay, and a pox on these "creators".

I beg to differ.
I consider myself to have a broad taste of music.
Everything from Herman’s Hermit, Luis Armstrong, slipknot, queen, hammerfall, infected mushroom, linking park, limp bizkit, NOFX, Hans Zimmerman, xzibit.
Hm think I covered the most musicstyles but I’m sure I got more in my mixlist.

Even if some of them use electronic instruments I still consider them as good and very much ”human” artists?

I don’t consider AI music to be in anyway better than them, but that doesn’t mean that i can’t like it?

ByggareBob wrote:

I don’t consider AI music to be in anyway better than them, but that doesn’t mean that i can’t like it?

The problem with a LOT of AI use in creative arts (and also workplace) is that its not just a case of liking or disliking what it constructs.
It's about stepping back from the purely personal experience and realising that the collective use and engagement with something like AI music directly results in the career potential for many people being wiped out.

If you're listening to AI Synth every evening and if youtube is flooded with it (because AI can spit it out as fast as you can pay for tokens) what happens to the real person doing real synth music? The kind of person who doesn't work for a multi-million music producer? They get lost; their music unheard - heck they'll even have trouble proving that their stuff is real and not just more AI.
The result is that the time they invest in learning that skill yields little to no social nor financial benefit for them. With zero gains they might well never share their talent with the world; with drastically reduced financial chances they might well never take the step on working on their talent to turn a skill into a job to put food on the table. Now they become a shelf stacker at a supermarket and the world is the lesser for not having them develop their talent.

It's about realising that AI will take opportunities from all those people; which means we get no new creatives. It means losing generations of talent. With many places like bars/pubs and such also shutting down and with live events costing more and more - they don't even have the same option to perform in real life to mitigate the loss of places like youtube to growing potential talent.




Also AI isn't some small niche thing - it already swamps most creative websites. Displate is smothered in the stuff which means even if you want to find and buy a real bit of art from someone - its very challenging to do so. Youtube throws up hundreds of AI created music in seconds and good luck telling real from AI if you find a newer channel that isn't older than AI



Sure you can enjoy what AI creates, but you have to step back and respect that what it creats comes at a cost far greater than the token(s) spent on it.

 Overread wrote:

ByggareBob wrote:

I don’t consider AI music to be in anyway better than them, but that doesn’t mean that i can’t like it?

The problem with a LOT of AI use in creative arts (and also workplace) is that its not just a case of liking or disliking what it constructs.
It's about stepping back from the purely personal experience and realising that the collective use and engagement with something like AI music directly results in the career potential for many people being wiped out.

If you're listening to AI Synth every evening and if youtube is flooded with it (because AI can spit it out as fast as you can pay for tokens) what happens to the real person doing real synth music? The kind of person who doesn't work for a multi-million music producer? They get lost; their music unheard - heck they'll even have trouble proving that their stuff is real and not just more AI.
The result is that the time they invest in learning that skill yields little to no social nor financial benefit for them. With zero gains they might well never share their talent with the world; with drastically reduced financial chances they might well never take the step on working on their talent to turn a skill into a job to put food on the table. Now they become a shelf stacker at a supermarket and the world is the lesser for not having them develop their talent.

It's about realising that AI will take opportunities from all those people; which means we get no new creatives. It means losing generations of talent. With many places like bars/pubs and such also shutting down and with live events costing more and more - they don't even have the same option to perform in real life to mitigate the loss of places like youtube to growing potential talent.


Also AI isn't some small niche thing - it already swamps most creative websites. Displate is smothered in the stuff which means even if you want to find and buy a real bit of art from someone - its very challenging to do so. Youtube throws up hundreds of AI created music in seconds and good luck telling real from AI if you find a newer channel that isn't older than AI

Sure you can enjoy what AI creates, but you have to step back and respect that what it creats comes at a cost far greater than the token(s) spent on it.

Well written, I totally agree with every single sentence.
Still I wonder. Remove the monetizing from ai generated content.
Then it would be fans honoring their interest?
Real artist would then still be able to make a living out of it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warhead01 wrote:
Yay and also Nay.


One problem I have with this stuff, the ai music, is that I feel like I am slipping into Alzheimer's or senile dementia because you will hear something that might be familiar but then it's all wrong. Like a really bad cover band.
Another stand out was by Skyebrows. The Elon's musk song. There's a video. The lyrics were clever. One bit was about Elon buying the sun. Which I found completely silly. I would sell him the sun. But the taxes... Yikes !
.

With that I can agree.

A lot of the Al generated music sounds the same. Even so same that its hard to tell artist apart if their musicstyle are alike.
But then it comes to what you listen to in the music.
As for my self i listen most for the lyrics and stories they tell.
Cry for the slave - grimdark tavern
Rylanor's stand - Sanguinious soundscape
The old mans testimony - The vox skull last stand of cadia - elyn Nightingale
The music is quite generic but the lyrics are in my opinion interesting. In the same whay I like a good story/movie/book/image that tell me a story.
If it was only written text, would you be able to tell it from a human?
I would think so, but that doesn't remove the possibility that it's a good story?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Olthannon wrote:
Music, like with all art is about soul and feeling, which AI has absolutely nothing of.

I think of some of the greatest songs of all time and the talent and effort that has gone into them. The power behind music and how it has shaped the world.

I think of historic folk songs that have conserved little snippets of every day life from hundreds of years ago.

It's a miserable state of affairs to be even considering AI music.

Yes I agree, the greatest songs ever made is of course made by humans. And the lyrics they contain that preserv those snippets of music is part of what makes the music.
With that said 1 wonder if someone who cant play instruments, sing or any other thing cant write good lyrics in the same way some of the greatest artist have done. Shouldn't that person be able to publish that "gift" to the rest of the world because part of it was Al generated?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Just this weekend, I went to my local Metal/Alternative Bar. They had bands on all the long weekend.

AI music is a direct threat to that experience, and those venues. It will throttle the creative arts.

The alternative scene already struggles with an entirely indifferent radio and tv landscape that favours bland, banal mass produced tripe. It doesn’t need some tosser with internet access making things even worse.

Oh I’m sure AI has some place in the workplace. But we need to stop making it to replace humans and the human experience.

I love a good live consert!
The best ive been to so far is The streets at Roskilde 2005 hmm, and in Flames in Gothemburg
And Al music cant compete with those at all. Real music beats Al generated everytime you compare them. Do we have to compare them though?
And yes, I also believe that she need stricter regulations to promote real music instead.
As I said before in tho thread, I believe it would be good to make all ai generated media non profitable, forbidden for commercial use.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Many of you talk about the monetization.
Lets say that we by law forbade Al music to be commercial in any way, that all the money in it disappear.
Then the persons creating the music would do so of pure fan commitment.
Would you say that the story told by that music doesn't have heart?
And doesn’t disserve to be told?


I think that if a creator lay enough time on an Al song with all the stuff that needs to be made to publish the music (polishing and stuff?) it might be considered as human made?

The thing is
1) You have to be able to identify - to ah igh degree of accuracy - AI from real created content of a medium (in this case music).

2) You have to then apply that system to key websites, like youtube, to allow for filtering

3) You have then HEAVILY promote people using the "real" creative websites/filters/content over the AI created.


Removing AI created content from having royalties; payments; copyright and so forth is a step in the right direction. However the problem is working out what is AI from what is human made. And good luck if someone decides to use AI to make something and then remake it in another program so any baked-in identifiers are lost. Eg use AI to make music; the use an electronic music maker to copy the notes over.


AI is opening a pandora's box of problems society is not ready to deal with. Personally I feel like the best solution is either to restrict AI use directly (since it requires big business to facilitate you can in theory throttle it at the big end and simply restrict its use with laws); or raise the functional price of tokens to a point where its simply unaffordable except for larger businesses. At which point if you couple that to no copyright, no earning potential etc... then you destroy the casual market for its use.

I could almost see the point of AI generated music for on-demand stuff like, for example, mood music for a gaming session, if not for the fact that there are plenty of places to get that sort of stuff made by actual artists, and often for free.

Beyond that, there is so much good music out there by artists that I will support because I love their work. AI doesn't deserve support, because it's not an artist, and is actively damaging multiple industries, not to mention poisoning the internet.

So, no. Not doing AI music.

I don't necessarily hate AI music on principle. A lot of it sounds good with good beats and stuff. But after you've listened to a bit of it, it all starts to sound very formulaic and samey.
Although I'm sure if the prompter spent more than three seconds typing out their prompt you could get better quality music.

The huge problem with AI music (and wider videos/whatever) is that it is absolutely swamping the creative platforms now.
It's basically impossible to find new music in a given genre because there's just mountains lazy AI content pushed out for easy money. *That's* as much the problem.

Some AI songs are good, if the 'creator' asked for something specific. I've heard a Dune-related spice harvesting song as if written by The Worzels.

But, the actual creators of the referenced and re-interpreted music get no credit.

The content can be pleasant enough, but the ethics of it stink. The amount of resources that get used to spit this stuff out, while the credit is all in one direction, is abysmal. Get a local band to knock out some real music, and let them publish it.

We're acting like humanity doesn't have an unbelievable amount of music to choose from.

Even if you don't want to make a playlist yourself with the wealth of artists available, people make public playlists on every platform where music is streamed.

AI generated stuff doesn't even deserve the title of music. It's lazy and built on the theft of others work.

Very much a nay from me too, for the ethical reasons pointed out upthread. Most of it is really bland too.

I've never intentionally sought out AI music, although listened to a bit by accident. I must confess that "I s*** my pants in the middle of Aldi" has gotten stuck in my head though, and I'm pretty sure that is AI slop.

Only if you are a musician who trained an AI with his or her own work exclusively and use that as a tool alongside their own mixing process.

Generative AI as an artistic tool used in a creative process, NOT TRAINED ON OTHER PEOPLES WORK WITHOUT PERMISSION, is fine by me. As long as it ends up only as a minor component in the end result.
As a means to replace a creative process is not fine. That's just lazy. Pick up a pencil or something.

So typing a prompt in a generator and calling your self an artist, for that is a big NO in my book.

Before anyone gets any ideas. Yes, I used to draw a lot by hand in the past. Nowadays I mostly use Adobe Illustrator for my work or designing stuff for my modeling projects. Yes this also involves copy and pasting bits text I find on the internet. I used hand traced and auto trace on some stock images several times for personal use as well. I never called myself an artist for that. Unless I made the pencil sketch, scanned that onto the computer and trace and colored that in Illustrator.

 warhead01 wrote:
Yay and also Nay.

Same.

Recently had one sneak into a playlist on youtube. It was kind of a banger, so I didn't mind, until it credited a singer who it very clearly wasn't(it was country, artist was Zach Bryan). Probably wouldn't have gotten into my playlist without it having that singers name attached to it. I think a few more have popped up, so I've been listening to older songs that I know are genuine.

Going to be interesting times for artists across the whole spectrum of entertainment.

One thing I actually enjoy are the voice over tracks. Beavis and Butthead singing is so much better than you'd expect. But that would also fall under parody. (I think?) I've hears some other "covers" that I thought were decent. Frank Sinatra covering Cruel Angel thesis, was also better than you might think.

Some of it is has been flat and lifeless. One channel had Oderus Urungus doing covers but they weren't fantastic.

I also think ai entertainment should be recognized for what it is. Content.

Content to me is not in the same basket as art.

I guess unpopular opinion but I honestly don't get the "lack of credit" argument when it comes to AI.

Every time I go to paint a new army - the first thing I do is take to Google Images or Youtube tutorials. I view and watch a whole bunch of what other people have done before. Some I will draw inspiration from, others I'll literally just try and do exactly that same thing myself.

Is AI any different? Morally or practically?
I suppose there is a practical and moral difference in that if you asked me how I came up with my paint scheme, I could tell you who inspired me. I say only "could" because often no one specific person gave me the exact idea, and if they did I likely don't remember who it was.

The future AI brings terrifies me
But honestly artist rights aren't the centre of my concern.

"But honestly artist rights aren't the centre of my concern."

Artists' livelihoods are what I'm more worried about. Without future artists, AI will only be able to feed off other AI-generated content. There'll come a time when AI is almost all you'll be able to find, when so much of it saturates the 'market'.

We already see the amount an artist gets paid falling, based on per-play stats.

This doesn't only apply to music, but a lot of industries.
"AI is going to take our jobs" is happening.

AI taking our jobs is *absolutely* what I'm concerned about.
I think parallels with the industrial revolution are quite disgustingly apparent tbh, and it did *not* make the lives of the workers any better.

But AI doing the jobs isn't necessarily the problem by itself. The problem is the societal expectation that you need to work for your worth.
IMO the ideal situation is for AI to do my job... but I get to keep my salary. Even double it if AI does the job twice as good as I do.
But that's not what's gonna happen.

Heavily automated machines in the Industrial Revolution set worker's rights back centuries and forced them into dangeroud and squalid working conditions as the robber barons entirely controlled access to work and therefore money and therefore food and life itself.
Even today we largely only see the industrial revolution as good for workers rights because we've exported all these abuses out to India and China et al.

Also lets keep in mind the Industrial Revolution was a LOT slower. AI has already taken jobs; smothered creative workspaces and its not even a mature technology that works all that well. It's done that in less than half a decade.

 Overread wrote:
Also lets keep in mind the Industrial Revolution was a LOT slower. AI has already taken jobs; smothered creative workspaces and its not even a mature technology that works all that well. It's done that in less than half a decade.

It is also a very obvious bubble that hasn't popped yet, and generally does a much worse job than the humans it has replaced.

I'm expecting some kind of messy realignment with reality in the nearish future once the massive overvaluing stops being sustainable with marketing spin alone. It won't disappear for sure, but we can expect less prevalence.