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This situation came up in a game the other day:

A squad of chaos marines with the Daemonhost was entangled thanks to a destroyed Rhino.  That turn the Host welcomed the GD, and it appeared.  Is the Bloodthirster still entangled, or can it move freely?

We ruled that it could, as it's a seperate unit after possessing the host.  The RAW aren't very clear, as it doesn't mention if the GD appears as a part of the squad or not.  If anybody has any light to shed on this, I'd appreciate it.

Greater Deamons cannot ever be entangled because they are too huge and unyielding.

Nowhere in the rules does it say the greater demons take on the status of their host. The thirster appears where the champ use to be, killing him on the spot. He doesnt become entangled (he wasnt in the crash)

i agree a demon appears there so instaed of being entangled it would just appear on the wreck.

Posted By Green Bloater on 09/05/2006 10:12 AM
Greater Deamons cannot ever be entangled because they are too huge and unyielding.

You've got a rule to support that or did you just make it up like you usually do?

If there was a transport that could carry them, and it was destroyed with a greater daemon in it, then they would be entangled. There just doesn't happen to be any transport that can hold them. But there certainly isn't any rule that supports the non-sense you spew.

Posted By cypher on 09/05/2006 11:00 AM
Nowhere in the rules does it say the greater demons take on the status of their host. The thirster appears where the champ use to be, killing him on the spot. He doesnt become entangled (he wasnt in the crash)

It also doesn't say the Greater Demon gets to ignore the status of their host, they are not being summoned beside them like lesser demons after all, they are possessing the body.

I would keep him entangled same as the host.

Posted By Polonius on 09/05/2006 10:02 AM
This situation came up in a game the other day:

A squad of chaos marines with the Daemonhost was entangled thanks to a destroyed Rhino.  That turn the Host welcomed the GD, and it appeared.  Is the Bloodthirster still entangled, or can it move freely?

We ruled that it could, as it's a seperate unit after possessing the host.  The RAW aren't very clear, as it doesn't mention if the GD appears as a part of the squad or not.  If anybody has any light to shed on this, I'd appreciate it.

That's not the question you should be asking. The question you should be asking is:

"Is a pinned (entangled) model allowed to roll for possession?"

The answer to that by the written rule IMO, is "no" since a model who is pinned "may not move shoot or assault, or make any other action in its following turn."

I have a hard time understanding how rolling for possession would not be considered an action (given how loose the pinning rule is worded).

If you disregard the fact that rolling for possession (apparently) breaks the pinning rules I thoroughly agree that the Greater Demon model would not be Entangled once placed on the table.

"...did you just make it up like you usually do?"

Come on Ed. Stop being such a troll.

But what if the vessel dies while entangled, Yakface?

Not that it helps much in the case of wreckage but it does say that the model will leave the vehicle it is in if possession takes hold.

The only thing close to a Q&A on the subject is Adepticon's for next year which says the the Greater Deamon is not entangled. Take that answer as you like as it isn't GW, but as Adepticon has become the premiere tournament, I find their rulings to be final.

if the vessel dies while entangled the demon comes out as usual but rolls for instability as it normaly would if the model being possede gets killed

Since the model that was entangled (the host) is removed from the game, and replaced by the Greater Daemon, which wasn't present to become entangled, the statis doesn't transfer. They are two different units. If the Daemon remained a part of the unit that was affected by the entanglement, then it would share the status, by association, the same way that skills can be shared with attached ICs.

Posted By the_trooper on 09/07/2006 9:53 AM
But what if the vessel dies while entangled, Yakface?

Not that it helps much in the case of wreckage but it does say that the model will leave the vehicle it is in if possession takes hold.

If the Daemonvessel is killed then the Daemon would be summoned (and since he's a different model he wouldn't be Entangled).

But being killed isn't an action (at least IMO) while rolling for possession sure seems like an action to me.

I never surpressed it so Im a little vague on the rules but after a certain point dont you have to roll for possession even if you dont want it to?

Posted By the_trooper on 09/07/2006 12:58 PM
I never surpressed it so Im a little vague on the rules but after a certain point dont you have to roll for possession even if you dont want it to?

Yep, you always have to roll for it normally.

However the Daemonvessel also has to choose to resist it or welcome it each turn. Unfortunately the pinning rules say that a unit  that is pinned cannot make any actions during their turn, so by the RAW the Daemonvessel couldn't choose to either resist or welcome the possession.



I personally wouldn't play with the RAW in this case (I think it's a bit silly), but that is what I think they say.

hahahaha, I cannot exercise my will while pinned because this is all Psymatter!

I disagree with Yak's RAW reading. If you read the Possession rules, they say nothing about the Champion making the roll, or it being any kind of action made by the Champion itself ("At the start of each turn after the first that the Daemon's Host is on the battlefield, the owning player chooses whether resist the possession or invite it. Roll a D6; ..."). The roll is simply made at the start of each turn, and if the appropriate roll is made then the Daemon takes possession of its host. If anything, it's an action on the part of the GD ("... the Daemon only takes possession of ..." "... the Daemon possesses the vessel ...") rather than the host.

So yes, you definately get to roll for Possession if the Host is entangled. The model is then killed and, as the GD is a seperate unit altogether (and nothing ever says that he is in the same state as the Host; if that were the case, then a dead host would result in an automatically-dead GD...).

Damn, can't edit my post. The last paragraph should read:

So yes, you definately get to roll for Possession if the Host is entangled. The model is then killed and, as the GD is a seperate unit altogether (and nothing ever says that he is in the same state as the Host; if that were the case, then a dead host would result in an automatically-dead GD...) it is free to make any move as normal.

i second that

Well it is basically a mandatory roll you must do at the beginning of the turn same thing with summoning. It breaks the pinning.

Posted By yakface on 09/07/2006 12:45 PM

Posted By the_trooper on 09/07/2006 9:53 AM
But what if the vessel dies while entangled, Yakface?

Not that it helps much in the case of wreckage but it does say that the model will leave the vehicle it is in if possession takes hold.

If the Daemonvessel is killed then the Daemon would be summoned (and since he's a different model he wouldn't be Entangled).

But being killed isn't an action (at least IMO) while rolling for possession sure seems like an action to me.

Couldn't you say that the act of possession is being taken by the GD and not the host?  Then it's not an "action" that can be prevented by entanglement.