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So it looks like my group is going to be starting Mordheim in campaign form this October. This is a great excuse for me to bust out some old Empire figures I've had lying around. I have NO IDEA what I'm doing--I'm just throwing together a Reiklander merc army (the 12" leadership seemed like a good idea). Looking for serious C&C.

Captain: Light Armor, Sword, Pistols

Champion w/Halberd

3 Warriors w/spears

3 Marksmen w/crossbows

1 marksman w/handgun

Youngblood w/dagger/mace

10 guys, 498 points.

Questions:

1. Are these good or bad weapon loadouts (they're based on the figures I've got, though it looks like these aren't bad choices...)?
2. Should I Have more/less youngbloods?
3. Should I get armor for the champion?
4. Too many guys? Too few?
5. Too much missile? Wrong kind? Too few?

Again, C&C welcome...

Since I'm one of the said group members, I'm going to avoid giving you TOO much good advice. But here's some general things to keep in mind:

1) Weight of numbers rules in Mordheim.
2) Always take your maximum allotment of heroes.
3) Extra attacks are almost always better.
4) Keep beginning equipment cheap, especially on henchmen.
5) Avoid armor until you have a lot of GCs and nothing left to spend it on.

Some more specific comments:

If we launch the league again, we're going to use the revised rules (see the Specialist site). Spears aren't quite as good under those rules, so keep that in mind. Handguns are pretty much awful...consider a blunderbuss instead.

Erm...Well, Armor is generally a bad idea in Mordheim.
I would give the Captain some sort of melee gear just because the "gunman" type should be a champion. They have better chances od getting better skills fast. double pistol shooter won't kill that many people in Mordheim.

The parry skill is very(x2) good. try to use it wherever you can. And try to use double weapons. So sword&knife or sword&club.

Additionally, you should maximize your hero amount so you can max the wxploration rolls, that's very important.

Mh...will think about it some more. hope that helped.

Greets
Schepp himself

EDIT: argh...gorgon was faster...well anyways...have fun!

Thanks guys. And Gorgon: no worries--it's not like you're giving things away here!

A few questions:

1. Why is armor so bad? I can understand not wasting it on henchmen, but captains and champions?
2. Spears allow you to hit first in combat, even in the revised rules (at least, the ones I've downloaded from Specialist), I didn't see anything indicating it to be not good...can you clarify?
3. Is it worth taking swordsmen?

Thanks!

Revised list:

Reiklanders (12" ld, +1 BS)

Captain: Sword/Axe
Champion: Halberd
Champion: Sword/Axe (damned if I know where I'm going to get that figure...)
2 Warriors w/spears
2 warriors w/halberds
3 marksmen w/crossbows
1marksman w/blunderbuss, 2 axes
Halfling Scout.

That's 500 on the nose.

The main problem with armor is that it's ignored so often. In MH, armor is expensive and extra S is cheap...it's a common upgrade on both heroes and henchmen, and some weapons boost S or have additional save modifiers also. Moreover, many critical results ignore armor saves as well. If you want protection, parries, skills and lucky charms will give you better bang for your buck. If you have some GCs to blow later, then maybe you add it.

Spears are okay, but they took two significant hits in the rules review. First, they can no longer be used with a second weapon (although this was previously a common house rule that we used). And second, there are easy ways of getting the Strike First rule, such as Lightning Reflexes...or simply charging. So if my I4 Skaven charges your I3 Warrior, I'll still be striking first.

I'd be more scared of Swordsmen than your Spearmen. The Swordsmen will hit more often and be harder to take down because of the parries.

Thanks Gorgon. Sometimes I find it more helpful to have the rationale along with the principle.

So, does the same principle apply to 2-handed weapons, halberds and their ilk? i.e. should I be looking to do swords, crossbows and a blunderbuss? Or does the strength bonus outweigh the lack of off-hand option?

In my experience, it's better to have more attacks. Whiffing with one attack can be hazardous to your health. Plus, more attacks can mean more chances for crits.

I tend to use more specialty weapons in specific circumstances (such as a 2-handed weapon for a Flagellent hero w/multiple attacks and Strongman), and then usually only on heroes. If you have henchmen with an extra attack on their profile, then maybe halberds could make some sense. Usually you'll get a better sense of the right weapons mix once your warband starts gaining experience and you start getting increases and skills. That's why my advice is to keep beginning h2h weapons pretty basic.

Early on, I think it's hard to beat hammers/maces/clubs. They're dirt cheap, stun more often, and have some good effects on the advanced crit chart.

Revised List:

Reiklanders (12" LD bubble, +1 BS to marksmen)

Captain: sword/hammer
Champion: sword/axe
Champion: Axe/hammer
Swordsman: Sword/mace
2 Warriors: Axe/mace
3 Marksmen: Crossbows; hammer/dagger
Marksman: Blunderbuss, free dagger/axe

Everyone gets two HTH attacks, there's plenty of shooty bits, and a decent number of WS 4 in there. 10 models total.

Thoughts?

Generally like it. But you've ignored my rule #2...hopefully you don't suffer a lot of casualties early and can add the youngbloods quickly.

To illustrate my point, let's imagine you and I played, and I have with Skaven and their max allotment of 6 heroes. You beat me, and neither of us have any heroes go OOA. In postgame resolution you get to roll 4 dice for wyrdstone searching...I get to roll 6. It's very likely I will end up with more gold than you, even though I lost. If I won that game, I'd roll 7 dice (keeping the best 6) and you'd roll 3. Heroes are a big deal.

Posted By gorgon on 09/29/2006 1:23 PM
Generally like it. But you've ignored my rule #2...hopefully you don't suffer a lot of casualties early and can add the youngbloods quickly.

Uh, then call me confused. I'm pretty sure Reiklanders can only have one Captain and two champions...am I missing something?

EDIT: Yep, just checked the pdf: p. 9 of the Warbands packet. One captain and two champions...unless you are suggesting I have two youngbloods there because they're technically heroes?

Assuming that's what you mean (i.e. include Youngbloods), I submit this list:

1 Captain: Sword/Hammer, bow
1 Champion: Axe/sword
1 Champion: Axe/Hammer
2 Youngbloods: dagger/hammer
4 Marksmen: Crossbows, hammer/dagger
1 Warrior: Hammer/mace
1 Swordsman: dagger/sword

Not sure what to equip the youngbloods with, so I went cheap-yet-still-not-entirely-uneffective. I thought about just giving 'em bows and keeping 'em back, but as I said, I wanted cheap.

The bow on the Captain was because I had 10 points leftover and could use the extra ranged attack...

I am doing up a reiklander band too so i'm correct in assuming youngbloods count as heroes?

Captains, Champions, and Youngbloods are all heroes

Thought so...thanks for the confirmation.

Thanks for the clarification!

EDIT: So here's my (hopefully final) modified list:

Reiklander 500 GC Warband

Mercenary Captain: Free Dagger (FD), Sword, Bow
2 Champions: FD, Sword
2 Youngbloods: FD, Hammer
2 Marksmen: FD, Hammer, Crossbow
2 Marksmen: FD, Hammer, Longbow
2 Warriors: FD, Hammer
Swordsman: FD, Sword

12 guys, max heroes, 5 ranged attacks at BS 4 (4 @ 30" ) , 4 CC attacks at WS4 (w/parries and one guy with a re-roll on the charge), and cheapie henchmen to take the hits. All with one GC to spare.

Thoughts?

Looks very solid.  The BS4 shooters are a nice firebase, and your numbers aren't bad.   

Of course, if I decide to play Skaven, you'll be staring down 15 slingers...  >