Gaur's 1850 blood pact

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**Urlock Gaur**

HQ-Arch Heretic Khorne-107pts
Mark of Khorne
Daemonic Speed
Daemonic Resilience
Dark Blade
Bolt Pistol
Frag Grenades

HQ-Khornate Daemon Prince-142pts
close combat weapon
axe of khorne
feel no pain
daemonic strenght
daemonic resilence
daemonic speed
daemonic stature
frag grenades

Elites-Obliterator Cult-3 210pts

Elites-8 Blood Pact Death Brigade-166pts
trooper
melta guns 2
det pack
infiltrate
plate armor

Troops-8 Blood Death Brigade-118pts
trooper
plasma guns 2
det pack

Troops-8 Blood Death Brigade-118pts
trooper
plasma gun 2
det pack

Heavy Support-Chaos Defiler-175pts
defiler
indirect fire

ok i didn't do the math well but can someone double check to see how much points i spent

back on subject, blood pact cannot outnumber the enemy like guard and many other generals don't realise that saying blood pact sucks bla bla bla... well they don't, you just have to use death brigades and DON'T give them the 4+ armor save for 3points because then that will make them cost as much as normal chaos marines, if blood pact are just used without being armor upgarded then they are the cheapest unit for chaos that has a bs 4! (11 points) now people think death brigades which i use are stupid because they are alot like expanive guard veterans or stormtroopers but they are not because blood pact can have oblits and a damon prince. Most blood pact troopoers get lost in the gaunts ghosts fluff to relise that blood pact on another feild of batte are very proabable that they would fight alot such a force and the new gaunts ghosts they do!

ok no more ranting on blood pacts i think this is a well rounded force but i post this for you opinions not mine so please try to help my list thanks.

P.S. i'm also new to this website or atlest when i post this.

**wight_widow**

I think that this list could own a lot of people in CoD, especially inexperienced Marine players. With all the cover to shield your frail soldiers until they can throw their bombs. The great force concentration in your HQ units would help a lot in that circumstance as well. The list looks weak for boards that have less cover, though - only the Defilers really for long ranged shooting, and you don't get T5 like those Nurgle-lovers.

Maybe some boring old Traitors with lascannon might help you out? Worse BS, but cheaper. And can ping on tanks.

It's really just the Obliterator morphs you've got right now in the dedicated ranged AT department - your other elites look a little expensive for what they do - you might as well run similar sized squads of MEQ infiltrators with the same armanent as they'd be a lot more resilient for about the same points. (a grain of salt as I am unlearned in the LatD codex) As you say yourself, why not go for 3+ save, +1 LD, etc., especially for the elites? 11+3 for carapace = 14 for unmarked Chaos MEQ. Infiltrating demo charges are nice, but for 166 points? IG gets 25 point Cyclopses and Last Chancers, and 45 point six-man demo squads. Alternatively, you could run cheap squads of accurate, unmarked Chaos Marine "Mercenaries" armed with lascannon to beef your ranged AT a little more.

The same goes for your troops squads as well. 65 points get you a decent Chaotic imitation of an Imperial Demo Squad, but you let their points creep up a little too much. 11 points for a guy with a lasgun is not a great deal, even if he has BS4. Heck, IG players consider Storm Troopers, who cost 1 point less and carry a bunch of random wargear on top of their BS4 AP5 lasgun, poor choices. They're going to go down pretty fast regardless - that's why they're called the DEATH brigade - so you may as well play them as Kamikazes. They'd probably be pretty good in that role too. Makes more room for other stuff - one last troops choice, maybe some Fast Attack though I don't know if LatD can get anything decent.

Pretty much, I think you're ripping yourself off with some of the choices you've made - based purely on my own sense of unit value - but you've got to find your own compromise between fluff and tactics.

GL and hope this helped.

**Urlock Gaur**

Interesteing points you have there, but i want to say one thing, i will not play any gw tournaments with these guys and if i do they will become ig. Most of the time they will just play normal skirmishes and local tournaments. But I think your point is strange? I mean i get the cheapest BS 4 squads for chaos but your right, they do die but you must remember is that i can still get marines and so forth and so on that chaos have. I had another person say, i just didn't have enough armor protecting my squads to hide behind. So should i add some traitors for some leman russes instead? I think that the defilers would provide some protection if i put them up front, but if i do that the indirect fire is pointless. My question is what should i take away and add?

also last chancers are special charactors, aren't there limitations for someone to carry them? my idea right now is to get rid of some death brigades that are troops add in some traitors to get a lemon russ and a sentinel squad is this a good idea?

Ok from advice i've heard does this look better?

HQ-Arch Heretic Khorne-107pts
Mark of Khorne
Daemonic Speed
Daemonic Resilience
Dark Blade
Bolt Pistol
Frag Grenades

HQ-Khornate Daemon Prince-147pts
close combat weapon
dread axe
feel no pain
daemonic strenght
daemonic resilence
daemonic speed
daemonic stature
frag grenades

Elites-Obliterator Cult-2 140pts

Elites-8 Blood Pact Death Brigade-150pts
trooper
melta guns 2
det pack
move through cover
plate armor

Elites-8 Blood Pact Death Brigade-150pts
trooper
melta guns 2
det pack
move through cover
plate armor

Troops-7 Blood Death Brigade-118pts
trooper
plasma guns 2
det pack

Troops-7 Blood Death Brigade-107pts
trooper
plasma gun 2
det pack

Troops-7 Blood Death Brigade-107pts
trooper
plasma gun 2
det pack

Troops-6 Blood Death Brigade-96pts
trooper
plasma gun 2
det pack

Troops-7 traitor-pts-81
sniper rifle
lascannon

Troops-7 traitor-pts-81
sniper rifle
lascannon

Fast Attack-rhino-7 traitors-pts-121
dirge caster
sniper rifle
lascannon

Heavy leman russ-160
heavy bolter
extra armor

Heavy leman russ-160
heavy bolter
extra armor

Heavy defiler-150

**Frazzled**

I was about to suggest IG options to play them and realized you're already using spearate rules. Greetings Urlock, where are you sourcing this list from?

**wight_widow**

Maybe 5x5 Death Brigade with demo charge and 4x5 traitors with lascannon and plasma (if possible) with 3xRhinos? The Rhinos'd give you some mobile cover for the small bomb squads - both demo squads and tank-shocking Rhinos ought to also make good disruptive units against NME assault - while the traitors stand back and ping, ping, ping.

(revealing my ignorance of LatD) if Traitors are 7 points or less, it could be worthwhile running them in 8 or 10 man squads for a few more ablative wounds on the lascannon - IG put their lascannon in their troops for exactly the reason that the NME has to shoot through eight ablative wounds before the two teeth of the unit - the lascannon and plasma gun, typically - are pulled.

For your elites - hmm, probably five strong with just infiltrate and a bomb would be all right - the nuisance factor of two five inch pie plates hovering somewhere unknow after deployment might just be worth the extra points. That'd basically give you a bomb-heavy IG army with Chaos HQs.

Once you get into larger squad sizes for elite Death Brigades, IMHO, might as well invite some Chaos Marines over to giggle their way through the initation ceremony. Carapace isn't worth the points when you could get power armour at the same cost - as well as better assault abilities, leadership, and the option of that one-point mark of leacership rerolls. (if you think the Pact could put up with a few Pantheon rituals rather than the simple nihilistic warrior ethos of Mercenary Marines) If you wanted really tough infiltrators, Plague Marines (if you can get them) would probably make decent allies as well. Great at close-in firefights with twin plasma, and no slouches in melee either.

As far as Russ versus Defier *shrug* I don't personally have sufficient experience between the two. Defilers seem more flexible with Indirect Fire - I'm under the impression they have no minimum range, which makes them slightly superior to Basilisks in some respects. With Mutated Hull I *believe* they are more resilient than Russes. The flip side is that Russes have the option of moving faster and cost fewer points. From a fluff perspective, definitely defilers. Knowing how 5+ save humans tend to perform, I like your idea of going up to three tanks.

**Urlock Gaur**

if i use traitors then i must use russess because traitor's are the only way i can get russess but i'll expand more on the idea i'll make another list following your advice. But, i have some things to say first, traitors are a BS 3 so they really suck, giving them snipers was the idea so they can hit something, i have also gave them lascannons because i would get 3 shots of bs 3 which would be very nice for my anti tank, you see people get confused saying have bs 3 lascannon is a bad idea but if you got 3 aiming at one target, which i'll be doing, is a pretty good idea in my opinion but i want to hear your comments.

remember i can only include 1 allied elite choice of chaos marines which are oblits. ^^ look up at my new edited list.

The reason i used carapace armor was for my elites is because by a veteran player on another website said that people will be aiming for them just because you elites can you counter this reasoning?

**wight_widow**

This was going to be a long post but I've subjected lurkers to enough ranting as it is. Five FINAL points:

1) 5+ save humans with lasguns, regardless of their BS, are there to die in the stead of their squad mates carrying the plasma gun, lascannon, autocannon or heavy bolter. Their real worth is less than their individual points value, which is because the designers expect them to be used in this manner. If Death Brigade were pointed according to their relative values, they'd be about eight points and 25 for the bomb, which would cost more if they infiltrated. At eleven points, Brigades are TERRIBLE unless they're used for the bomb. Why? Because nobody else in LatD can get a demo charge, and a twenty point premium over practically THE EXACT SAME UNIT in another list can be tolerable, but when it gets up to forty or fifty or 100, it's a lot less worthwhile.

2) BS3 is 2/3s as good as BS4. Traitors ARE marginally worse shots than Brigades - but they can carry a lascannon. Brigades are one of those units whose points cost keeps them from using their BS to much advantage.

3) Lasguns suck. They won't go through any armour, on infantry or vehicles. Sure, when you shoot one Space Marine at long range with 14 Brigadiers carrying lasguns, he will go down - but that's one 15 point guy down for the firepower from 14 11-point guys. Now, when his four friends shoot back, they'll probably kill one or two of the Brigadiers. The same kills, from a unit which has been fired upon by a force over twice its size in points and numbers. Brigadiers are even poorly pointed as compared to other light infantry - small Tyranids, Orks, other IG, even Traitors all cost less and are just as resilient to getting shot in the face by a boltgun.

4) Carapace Armour isn't worth three points on 11 point guys with T3. They will still die just the same to a heavy bolter. They will still die just the same to an assault cannon, or a plasma gun, or a round of ordnance. The difference is, your opponent will win more victory points doing it. Not worthwhile.

That's why I say to take Death Brigade as five man units with no extra upgrades other than the demo charge. They are efficient only in the use of a weapon of VERY great destructive power, so great that you can afford not to care that they are destroyed, so long as they get their bomb off. In order for this to work, you'll need to be able to disrupt your opponent's attempts to destroy them. And sticking with the Blood Pact theme like you are, that means Traitors and Traitors in Rhinos. The Rhino's aren't for transport - they're to distract, Tank Shock, and be turned into smoking wrecks blocking LOS to your small, vulnerable, disposable Death Brigades until they can shred somebody hopefully many times their points value - like, say, a unit of Assault Terminators who've just consolidated after rubbing out the Traitor squad with which you baited them.

5) As many have discovered buying melta grenades for units with multimeltas or power fists for five man units with four heavy weapons, sometimes just because you can do something in 40k, much as in real life, doesn't always mean you should.

GL, HF

**Stu-Rat**

Posted By Urlock Gaur on 09/30/2006 4:59 PM

Most blood pact troopoers get lost in the gaunts ghosts fluff to relise that blood pact on another feild of batte are very proabable that they would fight alot such a force and the new gaunts ghosts they do!

What does this mean?

**Urlock Gaur**

HQ-Arch Heretic Khorne-107pts
Mark of Khorne
Daemonic Speed
Daemonic Resilience
Dark Blade
Bolt Pistol
Frag Grenades

HQ-Khornate Daemon Prince-142pts
close combat weapon
axe of khorne
feel no pain
daemonic strenght
daemonic resilence
daemonic speed
daemonic stature
frag grenades

Elites-Obliterator Cult-2 140pts

Elites-6 Blood Pact Death Brigade-102pts
trooper
melta guns 2
det pack
move through cover

Elites-6 Blood Pact Death Brigade-102pts
trooper
melta guns 2
det pack
move through cover

Troops-6 Blood Death Brigade-96pts
trooper
plasma guns 2
det pack

Troops-6 Blood Death Brigade-96pts
trooper
plasma gun 2
det pack

Troops-7 traitor-pts-76
sniper rifle
autocannon

Troops-7 traitor-pts-76
sniper rifle
autocannon

Troops-7 traitor-pts-81
sniper rifle
lascannon

Troops-7 traitor-pts-81
sniper rifle
lascannon

Fast Attack-senttinel squadron-138
multi lasers

Fast Attack-senttinel squadron-138
multi lasers

Heavy leman russ-160
heavy bolter
extra armor

Heavy leman russ-160
heavy bolter
extra armor

Heavy defiler-155
dirge caster

This look better?

**Moopy**

Yes, mixed armor looks better.

Concern: Lots of smaller troops sizes. T3 5+ or 4+ saves won't last long and it's easy to knock them under half strength. They pack a wholop at short range but get picked apart at range. Especially since they have no transports and are forced to foot slog through the open. This will be your biggest weakness, so be wary.

**Urlock Gaur**

thanks moopy, I think it looks alot better, but i am wondering, if i should take off one sent squad (stalk tanks) for sents with auto cannons and a hellhound?

**Moopy**

Having a mobile strike forces as you mentioned is good. It will serve to protect your forces as they advances as those mentioned units are perfect against light armor such as speeders. Speeders will be more than happy to hammer you as you move from cover to cover.

You'll also gain two other advantages.
1. Your have your points spread out now; one lucky las cannon hit can't kill you in a single shot.
2. You move some of your points from heavies (which you place first) to Fast Attack (which you place last). This is to your tactical advantage as you'll be able to respond to threats smoothly. They can also shepard your infantry forces. Use your Hellhound as a shield if needed. I do that with my BA rhinos. Everyone poo-poos them, but they block LOS to my foot troops even when destroyed.

**Urlock Gaur**

interesting, so you agree more with the second list?

**Moopy**

Yes, if by that you mean subtracting from heavy to boost FA.

The small unit sizes are a big weakness. They seem like one hit wonders with their det charges. How hard is it to kill 3 humans? Not hard at all and the plasma gun may help the enemy with those kills. Plasma is good, but not in a small group with 4+ or 5+ saves. I see them getting mangled before you can do what you want with them. You'll need to keep them behind terrain to make the enemy come to you, so they can survive long enough to make their big attack.

**Urlock Gaur**

good now can i have my daemon prince armed with a dread axe? it would mean 2 daemon weapons but one is allied?

**Moopy**

I'd rather you sacrifice him and make a unit of dedicated HTH specialists. If your army gets charged, it will fold in a moment. Since you have a lot of smaller units, there's a great chance to consolidate unit to unit. DP can't hide since he's a monsterous creature, and is a victim to vet sgts w/power fists. They work well in assault armies, as they add crushing support to assaulters. But in this army, he has no back up, so he becomes the primary target. Better to have a smaller HQ (LT. etc...) that can be escorted by a retinue or join another unit.

**Urlock Gaur**

Somebody said get rid of one of the russess and put a closed basi instead? I am kind of sad about my daemon prince

because i got a sweet modeled khornate daemon prince...

**Moopy**

Save him for the 2000 pt games.

**Urlock Gaur**

Thanks, I will then, but i'm gonna wait to make this blood pact later because of the new extra kits coming out for chaos miltia i'm going to wait till these come out and i might even change my list by then but i'll keep your advice in mind.

RB

Not to throw a damper on your list, but your traitor units are going to be falling back quite often. You have a Ld of 6 +1 with agitator which you didn't take. I would consider HQ of 3 ACs with chaos undivded. Make the the traitor units larger and they may be more useful.

RB

**Urlock Gaur**

yeah i am proabably going to include them but i'm gonna wait to build my army considering their is going to be alittle kit with auto guns and other chaos things to include with the chaos renegades.