Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So awhile back there was a rumor posted on Warseer that most everyone thought was highly unlikely. To quote:



Brimstone, known for his canny knowledge of future released, posts the following:



He has since cleverly retracted his doubts by quoting the above and posting:



So it seems very likely the Dark Angels may follow the old 10 man and 5 man rules. Like any rumor, it is still unlcear exactly how this is suppose to work and what is true and untrue (ie 5 or 10 man squads could be true but the ability to split them could be false).

Additionally, there's also a rumor that these changes will also affect Blood Angels and also be part of an update for Codex: Space Marine.

Thoughts?

Posted By winterman on 11/02/2006 12:08 PM

Thoughts?

This seems a little too complicated for GW.  Sounds like a bit of a nerf compared to regular marines.  But we all thought BTs would continue to be really (x2) good, so I suppose it's a possibility.  I still doubt it though; I can't imagine GW giving basic Marines the 6 man las/plas squad and then forcing DA into this position.

There is really not much disadvantage to it.

From what I have seen the 5/10 split is an option, not a requirement.

So in essence (if rumours are true, which I hope they are not for reasons at the end of this post) we will be able to field 10 man squads, split into two squads of 5. One with assault weapon, one with heavy weapon. Not such a big deal until you try to figure out how scoring is accomplished.

That, is where the rub lies with me. If both sub units count as scoring, then it will be a whole new basket of cheese for the marines. Especially in city fight where the scoring unit is reduced to 25% size.

Does this mean that instead of 6 troop squads, youd effectively have 12? That each 5 man squad, with accompanying special or heavy weapon, could shoot at a different target?

If that is the way I am reading this, yes.

Think back to the original Cityfight rules and the special rules for the Imperial Guard Units.

Eww, I can't see anything good out of this. It's a nerf. 5-man lascannon units are "OK," but 5-man plasma units? Even if you put them in a drop pod, you want a good 8 in there anyway.

I don't really see why this is a big deal. Marines can already do this by taking 6 min sized squads, each having more firepower and being more efficient then the rumored DA squads.

The only way this would be different for DA would be the ability to take more then 6 min sized squads but with no increase in firepower over the old way and a huge increase in cost. You'd have a scoring advatage but how easily can you make use of it (outside of CoD)? There is one way I think this would work for drop pods (see below) but it does come at an increase in costs.


Well this rumor goes hand in hand with it applying to Codex: SM at some point (either an errata or reprint). That is of course even more unbelievable but still something to think about.


Actually it depends on how it works. Say a 10 man squad can split in the middle of the game. Now that could be of use to a drop pod army. One squad can stay put to score (and deny VPs y hiding) while the other one with a powerfist can take off and harass stuff.

The reason this is a big deal is because you are effectively doubling your scoring units. I cant think of an army that can divide its choices into 28 (2 HQ, 3 Elite, 6 Troops, 3 Heavy Support...x2) different scoring units, potentially.

Sure, you should be able to take down the units easily, but can you divide your fire effectivley to make sure all 28 arent scoring?

Doubtful.

Kepp in mind that this all based on the rumour that each sub unit is scoring in regards to how we now the scoring rule as it is.

This is supposedly only affecting tacticals and not the other units. So you could potentially have 23 scoring units instead of 17. However that's going to cost you 450 points more the for 6 minsized squads and its going to double the cost to access the same firepower for your tacticals.

Don't get me wrong, I can see some advantages and abuses (no vp missions like alpha and CoD are an example). However, hasn't there been a call by many here for GW to players a reason to field a fluffy 10 man squad? This certainly has its incentives (and disadvantages).

Actually, its supposed to affect units other than tacticals as well.

My point is, we are given this glimpse incompletly, and we are left to our own devices as to how this works. This could be a great rule, but as it stands this does not bode well.

Well, people only have have bought enough marines to field 6 man squads...obviously if they make them field 10 man squads again, they'll have to buy more minuatures...

Posted By winterman on 11/02/2006 12:08 PM

He has since cleverly retracted his doubts by quoting the above and posting:

Man that Brimstone has no idea what he is talking about.

I suspect that your second quote was just Brimstone being facetious.

Possibly but then why would he post afterwards stating something to the affect that Dark Angels would have additional rules to compensate for the change in their tactical squads?

You really need to read the thread in question (or atleast skim the thread for Brimstones posts #454 and later).

Also, I've had further confirmation from another source, although it isn't clear exactly how this will work (or whether it will truely be a retroactive change, which still seems unlikely to me). Might not be good enough for you all but I'm now pretty convinced that this is coming in one form or another.

Posted By winterman on 11/03/2006 11:24 AM
Also, I've had further confirmation from another source, although it isn't clear exactly how this will work (or whether it will truely be a retroactive change, which still seems unlikely to me). Might not be good enough for you all but I'm now pretty convinced that this is coming in one form or another.

Perhaps better legibility for the stupid here? I am having troubles comprehending what your talking about.

What is "this" that you are referring too?

Sorry, "this" meaning the topic of the thread: the rumored changes to how DA squads will work.

It would be great if they really introduce that. Finally the background could come back into the rules/game.

Actually I really like the rule. If they can figure out a good way to figure out how it counts for VP and scoring.

It would really get rid of the min size las plas squads. Few people around here see the need to ever use devestators because you can make up for it in the cheap tacticals. It would definately stop that part of the min/maxing. I like it.

"A curious Dark Angels rumor on warseer"

I didn't have time to read the thread just the headline. So the rumor is that DAs are bi-curious?

Posted By Kid_Kyoto on 11/05/2006 4:10 PM
"A curious Dark Angels rumor on warseer"

I didn't have time to read the thread just the headline. So the rumor is that DAs are bi-curious?

It's probably best if no one answers that

So that's why they can't take allies! Just in case some of the DA are turned on by the Sisters of Battle, or Callidus Assassins, or female Imperial Guard fighting at their side. No hetero love for the brothers.

Hey,


>> So the rumor is that DAs are bi-curious?


This one time? The Space Emperor? Caught one of his sons in Carmen Miranda drag!


Lionel was posing in front of the full-length mirror in his wardrobe.


He was dancing to Q Lazzarus and touching himself in an un-Primarch-like manner.


The Space Emperor was confused at first, and didn't know what to do.


Then he said, "I guess it's okay if it's just for fun, but stay in the wardrobe, please."


But, Lionel knew it wasn't for fun. It was for sex with lots of other confused people.


So, he went out at night to clubs with no names on their doors, and danced.


Sometimes they didn't have Q Lazzarus, so he danced to Coldplay instead.


There was always lots of sex in the parking lot, and he made many new friends.


There were Bette Davis and Joan Crawford, Julie Andrews and Carol Channing!


There were Mae West and Judy Garland, Barbara Streisand and Marlene Dietrich!


And his very (x3) bestest special new friend . . . Julie Newmar!


- Sneak preview of Codex: Jessica Alba




Playa

>> So the rumor is that DAs are bi-curious?

Dark Angels marines, Primarch: Lion El Johnson


Lionel Johnson: name of the poet Lion El was based off of. Known to be homosexual

The Dark Angel: His most famous poem, known for its angry and agonized tone, believed to describe sexual desire for another man which he had to keep represed, as a devout catholic (convert)

That and the incessant innuendo we see in the fanfic. Like from Jester.

Then there's the whole 'Dark Secret' that the Dark Angels hold. And the fact that they wear dresses, their Terminators have feathers, and they all call each other 'brother'.

BYE

Exalt!

Wielding the "Sword of secrets" bears a whole new meaning now...

Plus they are very into torturing people until they confess. That's really why they have the feathers for tickling foes into submission. Only the inner circle wear dresses by the way.

circle...

NO! I musnt finish this as this has all gone wrong in a very "Villiage people" sort of way.

Do you think the inner circle stays at the YMCA?

Can we stay away from the area this is quickly approaching? Flaming can only result.

being a SW player for the last 14 years I shall resist the temptation to call the DA dress wearing fairies.